Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Greetings, This email is addressed only to the subject at hand not to any one in particular. Please do not take offense whatever your views. I wish to offer my opinion regarding gurus and saints. I am an American seeker and my journey and discovery of Vedanta was initially driven by a distrust of piety and the myths found in all religions. I had had a lot of experience with such in Christianity. Reading Vivekananda was a liberation to me. From reading him over many years, I think he would be the first to discourage his followers from various forms of piety and worship of gurus which for some is so appealing while for others so alienating. I have met some devotees who have an absolute childlike innocence, devoid of all guile I am sure, yet to my experience they seem gullible and wrapped up in the supernatural trapping and wonders of religion. That has never been my experience and I have had to plod along with the temperament I have. I have seen first hand the excesses of sentimental and social religion so I follow a stoney path of doubt and vigilance. In some odd sense that is difficult to explain, religion has been in some way, a stubborn obstacle to my free experience of spirituality. For some of us, we have to first cast off our disgust at a false start to embrace the path again. I think I have had the good fortune in my life to sit at the feet of two teachers who were great sadhus- who from all observations over many years-- appeared to have attained high levels of spiritual experience. Since there are no doubt enlightened ones who live completely in secret, I suppose I have met several others. In any case, other than inspiration and guidance, the path is always one's own. Painfully so-- love them though you may. The teachers I knew were in fact very stern and absolutely did not allow much personal interaction. Detachment and impersonality is an absolute pit of quick sand for some who grew up with detached or non-focused parents. We hunger for warmth and love and real personal connection at last. The teachers I met seemed to know what one's intentions and needs were. Sometimes to some they were warm and informal while to others they were grave and detached. One teacher would even shout and scold someone who would try to worship him and grovel-- kissing his feet. I mean shout, " Do not do that! " He was usually very detached and a hard task master. I have lived in a Catholic monastery and, in spite of all outward appearances, it was one of the most spiritually difficult places in the world to be. A very lonely place and emotionally difficult place to be at the time. In the Gospel of Ramakrishna I especially love his warmth and informality at times. How he would dance and even wrestle with his disciples. Can you imagine? How I wish I had lived then, but of course, even those who were there, were often blind to their privilege as they later realized. Didn't someone write, " If you are a pickpocket and Jesus walks into the room, you will see only his pockets " ? My initial ideal was to be with a Mother Teresa or St. Francis as a pampered and loved child. That has never been my experience in Vedanta. In fact, it seems frowned upon and the goal is to " become a lamp [and a detached one at that] unto oneself. " My point, at least from my non-Indian, my midwestern American view, is that worship and admiration of holy men can be a distraction. It turns me off when I hear it. Maybe that stems from jealousy. Would that a Jesus or a Krishna would gather us into their arms and give us samadhi at a touch. In my experience of life, miracles are generally extremely subtle. Spirituality, although greatly comforting, is always struggle, conflict, one step after the other. Teachers at times the worst of our obstacles, especially if we want to make crutches of them. They will not usually allow a bit of that sweetness if it will harm us with attachment. So I continue to be skeptical and turned off by any show of piety or stories of wondrous sadhus or much that smacks of the praeternatural. I say this not to criticize but to relate a different experience if it relates in any way helpful to any others with such difficulty. Right now the world is mourning the death of Pope John Paul. If you listen, you can hear and feel the hunger we all have to make a holy man into a god-man as if that is somehow proof and satisfaction and surety regarding the Divine Creator. Neti, Neti, Neti! Walk on alone Lord Buddha would say. Who was it used the analogy of religion as a boat to carry us across the rushing river to the far shore. Once across we are to leave the boat. Only a fool would carry it upon their shoulders and walk on land. Some teaches say religion is all just practice until we reach realization. In that sense, it is total non-sense later. It is a boat, only a craft, not yet the goal I think that means. I would add you have to paddle, paddle, paddle. Wishing will not get you anywhere. What I have witnessed in the presence of these real sadhus is that when you sincerely ask them a question without a psychological game going on, they will not only answer the question, but the real question one has that is still below consciousness. That is an uncanny experience and one feels it when it happens. That is a kind of secret hidden miracle that one can truly experience. In that way, I have experienced that something beyond my kin is happening. Teachers will use examples that not even they know the significance of, but will pierce you to the heart. It takes a bit a bravery to sit at the feet of a real holy man or woman. In that, many are driven away. I certainly have been driven away many times by the encounter. It is not always sweet is what I have experienced. I have left the teacher cursing him over and over under my breath for days. When I talk to a small child I can often know his mind and needs before he does. It is like that. We are like self-revealing children to them. Except of course we have our huge egos which seem so right at all costs. Anyway thoughts of a doubting Thomas . . . Peace to you Tomikin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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