Gospel of Judas

[Guest guest]

This evening I watched a programme on National Geographic called Gospel of Judas. This is an authentic ancient text that was discovered recently and interpreted this year. Carbon dating showed that this text was written around 200AD. It offers a variation on the New testament gospels of Mark Matthew Luke and John.. Some of the material that came through in gospel of Judas offers an unusual deeper insight into Christianity. An insight that was discarded by the founding fathers of Christianity for their own reasons.

 

Some material I saw would make better sense if interpreted the Hindu way.

 

At one stage Jesus started to laugh at the piety shown by his disciples at a Passover meal, saying you have not really understood the nature of God. He is not the creator God that you worship but something that defies all classification, all words and explanations. Is there any disciple here who understands what I am saying in its true spirit? Judas stood up.. I would interpret this to mean the concept of Impersonal Brahman that defies all classification something that has to be first-hand experience.

 

At another place Judas talks of Jesus giving different instructions to different disciples depending on their capacity to comprehend spirituality. Compare this with the way Sri Ramakrishna taught his disciples.

 

At one place Judas said, Jesus often appeared as a child.. Not meaning that he miraculously turned into a child but the period when Jesus absorbed in God realisation would literally behave like a little child. Reminds us of Sri Ramakrishna often found in the mood of a young child, a paramhamsa.

 

The programme kept talking about why this approach in Christianity that talks of divinity of man, the real nature of man as the spirit etc. was discarded as this was considered way above the heads of common followers who were fixated on the body and needed to see the story of Christ as a miracle story of a person defying death and being able to bring his body back to life. Gospel of Judas talks of the spirit being freed from the bodily bondage as salvation in contrast to the Christian norm of bodily resurrection. This would be in line with Hinduism.

 

A very interesting programme which at the end underscored what it has discovered by the presenters summing up: As something interesting but not something that should make the Church reinterpret its doctrines.

 

I keep talking about need to reconcile truth claims of different religions.. It may happen earlier than we expect.

 

jay

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you Jay for bringing out the similarities. This gospel also

reveals how Jesus WANTED Judas to betray him, who did it out of his

love for and obidience to Christ. This too reflects hinduism where

Avatars and their leela sahachars behave in strange ways. Hindu

scholars have compared this incident to the hidden relationship of

Rama and Ravana in the Adhyatma Ramayana where Ravana is a devotee

of Rama and chooses the " shatru bhava " to realise his Ishta.

 

God is so merciful Jay. We only need to love and remember him and

our any action will lead us to him. Only love and rememberance,

nothing else is needed. Love him, remember him and patiently wait

for the day to unite with him. Let everything else fade away. Go on

walking and visualise the Lord at the end of the way, smiling and

waiting to receive you. Even if you sit down, weary of the world, it

is He who will come forward, carry your burden and help you cross

the remaining distance. He always IS, it is we who forget.

 

I recently saw the Passion of Christ. It was fascinating.

 

An American friend of mine recently reaffirmed his faith on Christ

as he realised that Ramakrishna and Christ were the same. Religion

is our interpretation of God. If we interprete correctly then we see

only similarities and not dissent. This is the reason why we should

persist with our efforts to study comparative religion and point out

the common elements. Just as you are always doing.

 

Love & Regards,

Jagannath.

 

Ramakrishna , " Vivekananda Centre "

<vivekananda wrote:

>

> This evening I watched a programme on National Geographic called

Gospel of Judas.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Jagannath Ji,

 

Could you please help me find this.

 

Thank you,

 

All my love to you, Bob Rose

Hindu

scholars have compared this incident to the hidden relationship of

Rama and Ravana in the Adhyatma Ramayana where Ravana is a devotee

of Rama and chooses the " shatru bhava " to realise his Ishta.

[Guest guest]

I watched the programme and have the text of the gospel. Well maybe

it's just the living in a Christian country with stories from the

Bible taken for granted but it does not sound that interesting. It is

very popular this days to " find " new truths and people are too

superficially trying to prove that things are not like we think they

are, we always have a desire for revolution ..

 

Anyone can found a religious group and write scriptures, that does not

make it the truth. I can write that Jesus vas an extraterrestrian and

someone will certainly become a believer in the new faith. And after

2000 years someone digs out those " scriptures " it will be considered

something great.

 

What I think is important is that things like this shows what a great

diversity of opinions there vas in the early Christianity … but I

wouldn't take for granted anything jus because it is written on some

old papers… Not that the Biblical texts can be taken 100% for granted

either.

 

Take for example Kartabhajas, a vaishnava sect mentioned in the Gospel

(I was reading that part yesterday and than searched on the net more

about them) .. it seems they just misused the vaishnava teaching to

find an excuse for leading a lifestyle of dubious morals.

 

Though I'm not a church fan in this matters I give them credit. They

don't get over enthusiastic over things (saints, miracles or anything

) …. That's why thre can not be that much misuse of spirituality for

personal gains, but it is also suffocating the developing of spiritual

ideals with imposing certain dogmatic views as the only possible truth.

 

So taking all this in consideration I'm not that much impressed by

just another of a " countless " versions of early Christian teachings an

I have more confidence in the canonical gospel. If I was presented

with all the known gospel it is very probable the in the Bible would

be my choice also, they just sound more serious and trustworthy and

have also some historic arguments.. but of course it is just my

opinion, I do think that the institunalisation of Christianity was not

a good think, but that does not make everything we fount worth of

being taken for granted. It takes a little discrimination and commune

sense.. it looks just like another attraction.. something to display,

to make some articles, programmes, make some money from that and use

it in our discussions but at the end I don't think It will have any

lasting impact other that putting more light on the early Christian

history and historic worth of what it is usually taken to be the real

truth.

[Guest guest]

Dear Goran,

 

I agree with you. In India we see many versions of the Ramayana and

the Mahabharata. Even the Gita started out with a handful of verses

which later expanded to its current form. Every generation will

add/substract from the original texts. So long as it is done with

love and piety in heart, and not with malice or self interest in

mind, it can be condoned.

 

In the long run it is the peoples faith that counts. No one, or any

hidden document can take away the divinity of Christ that has

embedded itself in the minds of the people. In fact it is a test of

Christ being a messenger of God that his name has survived the ages

and people have been blessed by his presence. I believe this was also

the conclusion of Swamiji regarding the validity of avatars. We also

cannot trash the experiences of various saints including Sri

Ramakrishna who have worshipped Christ and obtained his blessings.

 

Today we know that Sri Rama and Sri Krishna were historical figures

based upon various archaeological findings. It may be that their

exact characteristics have been modified with time but that does not

affect the devotees who approach them with deep faith and devotion.

And again, the very fact that they evoke such emotions in people,

after such a huge gap in time is a measure of their greatness.

 

Sensationalism and the urge to make money should not be used as an

excuse to destroy the faith of people on the objects of their

devotion. This would be a cruel blow to humanity at large and also to

a great civillisation that has survived the ravages of time.

 

Love & Regards,

Jagannath.

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagannathji, Namaskar. Your letter mentions:' Even the Gita started out with a handful of verses which later expanded to its current form.' As Bhagvad Geeta is part of Mahabharata written by Ved Vyas, do you mean that Mahabharata has been modified with time? Different versions does not mean that the adi book has been modified. I am mystified. Kindly throw some more light on the subject. Regards Chetan Merani

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

There is an opinion that Mahabharat took its current

form over a period of time...Originally it constituted

of only a few verses and Vyas was considered to be the

collector of these 'war songs'...later on it grew to

its current form by the contributions of various

authors (probabaly pseudo named as Vyas)...considering

the various short stories and the way it is linked in

to Mahabharat, this theory cannot be totally

refuted...

 

Somehow i feel Mahabharat was similar to an 'open

source' project of modern times...people are free to

redsitribute an open source software with or without

modifications...similarly mahabharat and probably Gita

would have been subject to modifications in time

 

just my 2 cents

 

Regards,

 

Sujith

 

---

[Guest guest]

dear Chetanji,

namaste.

 

Here is what is known to me on this topic.

 

Mahabharata as it exists today, has many versions. Also it is generally

accepted in the academic circles that the original book titled " Jaya "

was consisting of 20,000 shlokas. Later on many sub-stories etc. were

added to it. for example :- story of King Nala, vishnu sahasranaama,

many portions of shanti parva etc. But these stories which give us a

look into the aryan way of life in those days- thus helping us to

understand the book in a better way- , must have existed along with

" Jaya " , but got compiled into a single book called Mahabharata in a

gradual process. (a book of 1 lakh shlokas)

 

Regarding Geeta, it is said that it was composed by Adi shankara along

with its commentary and added into Mahabharata. I had come across a

titled called " Geeta as it WAS " , but was not interested in knowing it in

detail. I am not sure if Geeta itself was composed in several stages as

Shri Jagannathaji mentions. But some of the shlokas of Geeta appear

exactly in some of the Shaiva Agamas, which too are ancient.

 

Was the author of Mahabharata Vyasa, divider of Vedas, writer of 18

puranas a single person ie Krishnadwaipayana Vyasa or a disciple-line

itself is again debated in scholarly circles. Some north indians have it

as their surnames (eg. Girijia Vyas, who is a political leader).

 

regards,

vikas

 

Attachment: vcard [not shown]

[Guest guest]

Dear Vikas,

 

Thank you for your reply to Chetan. I too was referring to a book

that explained how the original Gita consisted of only a few slokas,

sixteen perhaps. However the situation in which the Gita was

rendered fuelled the imagination of scholars who decided to expand

it so as to be a source of comfort and guidance to those at the

crossroads of life. Later it was further modified to become a

standard book elucidating the core teachings of Hinduism.

 

It is very probable that Sri Krishna would not have had the time to

recite a voluminous poem to Arjuna in the midst of a battle. He must

have recited a few slokas to shake Arjuna out of the despondency he

had fallen into. These few verses must have acted as mantras

surcharged with the spiritual power of Lord Krishna.

 

The early scholars were not like those who Sri Ramakrishna described

as vultures in the sky, who exploited religion for name and fame.

They were true devotees and their only aim was to contribute to the

spiritual works of the day with the only wish of benefitting

humanity. They therefore did not care about identifying themselves.

Not only the Mahabharata many spiritual texts have been modified

over time. We have already discussed about how Sankaracharya's works

too may have been modified by the later Abhinava Sankara.

 

Just as the modern scientists seek to cut across scientific jargon

and make scientific thoughts accessible to the common public,

similarly the spiritual savants of yore sought to modify the texts

and add to them so that the common man could easily read and follow

them. Considering the popularity of the Ramayana, Mahabharata, and

the Gita, we must say that they have succeeded entirely.

 

Our pranams at their holy feet who laboured hard without any

thoughts of self.

 

Love & Regards,

Jagannath.

 

Ramakrishna , Vikas Akalwadi <vikas wrote:

> Mahabharata as it exists today, has many versions. Also it is

generally

> accepted in the academic circles that the original book

titled " Jaya "

> was consisting of 20,000 shlokas.

[Guest guest]

Dear brother, I beg to disagree with the opinion that our scriptures were expanded and modified until it became whole as it is today. The Gita couldn't have been written piecemeal. To say so would be to insult the intelligence of Vyasa. Surely, these great rishis would not have undertaken a task that was beyond their means to complete. Without Divine Blessings they would not have embarked on the works they were destined to do. And as Divine Blessings are complete so are works initiated by Great Masters of Full Realization. Perhaps what they would not have seen completed is the liberation of their disciples for which they will come again and again. Rajen