Vivekananda and America

[Guest guest]

East and West have a difference in their outlook towards life. I

wonder how Swamiji managed to bridge the gap in 1895? How did Swami

Vivekananda convey a message as rich as Vedanta to a group of people

who envisioned India very differently. I am curious to know how

Swamiji connected with American in his first Speech at Chiacgo?

[Guest guest]

Indeed, you are very right that there is a huge difference in lives of people from east and west. It has to be a divine soul like Swami Vivekanande who could accomplish such a task. The only thing I would say is that blessings of our Guru play a very important role in our lives. With his vast knowledge of shashtra, brahma samaj, philosophy about the supreme power from people around the world, etc blended togather with his Guru-Ramakrishna Paramhansa's blessing, it can be thought to be possible. And ofcourse our past lives sanskara's have to be taken into account. TapasviMonalisa Chandra <mastpis2001 wrote

[Guest guest]

Great question indeed.

With the grace of Sri RamaKrishna I have been working on a book titled

SEPTEMBER 11: THE DATE OF GLOOM AND GLORY!

As we know Swami Vivekananda captured the heart of America, and later

that of the rest of the world, with his vary first address on September

11, 1893, the opening day of the World's Parliament of Religions held

in Chicago.

 

My book based on September 11, and other Chicago addresses of Swami

Vivekananda, will try to answer, among other things, your question.

 

I pray to Sri RamaKrishna that the answer in the book will be as great

as your question.

 

Girish (of SRKP & WHSW)

(SRKP is the acronym for Sri RamaKrishna Parivar. WHSW is the acronym

for the E-column WIDER HORIZONS Weekly.)

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Swami Vivekananda once said that the differences in culture or beliefs are all very much natural but finally we, all living beings respond to some eternal values of life. And these basic ethics are same for one and all. So, when he approached thousands of educated Americans, the mendicant monk Vivekananda, absolutely having no material possession and emerging from the eastern world exactly opposite to that of westerners was able to touch everyone alike with his magical ideas and oratory power and one of the reasons behind his successful communication of apparently 'DRY' Vedanta philosophy was that he himself was composed of those ideas! We can hardly isolate Vivekananda from Vedanta. So an embodiment of the highest ideals that have a universal approach and not specific social parameters, coupled with the quality of absolute unselfishness helped a mere boy of Calcutta who used to play in the streets

like other boys do, to become Swami Vivekananda. These factors like total unselfishness supercede the cultural as well as social boundaries and that is why He was accepted in the heart of everyone. SatrajitMonalisa Chandra <mastpis2001 wrote: East and West have a difference in their outlook towards life. I

[Guest guest]

I believe, there is a physical and a spiritual angle to all

explanations.

 

From a spiritual perspective, divine power and thakur's grace might be

enough to explain tremendous response to swamiji's initial speeches.

 

From the physical side, swamiji's personal charm, eloquence, mighty

intellect and exotic appearance might have captivated american

audiences' fascination. Who can resist the force of his personality!!

 

Jai Swamiji

Kishore

 

 

>I am curious to know how Swamiji connected with American in his first

>Speech at Chiacgo?

[Guest guest]

This has happened in the life of Holy Mother also. How she could

manage to communicate with her western disciples as well as non-

Bengali ones is a miracle. There have been many instances where she

has spoken in Bengali but the other person has understood perfectly

without knowing a shred of the language. And there have been instances

where she has not spoken a word but the audience has been satiated,

for example during her visit to Madras.

 

Regards,

Jagannath.

 

Ramakrishna , Tapasvi Modi <azure_sky0001

wrote:

>

> Indeed, you are very right that there is a huge difference in lives

of people from east and west.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for explaining it so beautifully Satrajit. I too agree

that total selflessness takes you to the level of the soul and that

enables you to communicate at a higher level where words are often

unnecessary. And yes, Swamiji is vedanta personified. He exudes

vedanta and thus automatically conveys vedantic ideas wherever he

goes, earlier in person and now as a thought. He is an example of

Sri Ramakrishna's dictum, whatever you think of intensely, you

become.

 

Thank you again Satrajit.

 

Love & Regards,

Jagannath.

 

---

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Thanks Satrajit for your wonderful explanation. Best Regards Monalisa satrajit

[Guest guest]

I think a serious reality check is in order here. Over 99% of the

western world has never heard of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda. In

fact, lets face it the majority of the west, excluding those of

Hindu ancestry, have very little idea of the concept of spirituality

in the East. Dont get me wrong, I'm not being critical here, I

regard Ramakrishna and Vivekananda's teachings as being amongst the

most significant teachings of the last thousand years. When you are

searching for a path of truth in this world, and you know others

that are like minded, it is easy to fall under the illusion that the

world is achieving some kind of awareness of the path you are on.

Unfortunately for the majority of mankind the concepts of self, God,

truth, enlightenment, samadhi are literally beyond the scope of

their intelligence. In the west particularly, the most important

aspects of life are the colours of next seasons dresses or whether

your football team is going to win on Saturday. American and the

world did not take these teachings to heart, it was a small minority

who were open to the teachings of the truths as put forward by

Vivekananda. It is not only that these teachings will have come from

a 'foreign' source, the fact is that the majority of the west have

very little understanding of the religions that they were brought up

with in their own countries. How many people are out there that call

themselves Christians but have very little understanding of Christs

message let alone actually carrying out his example of living.

Many of you may regard this post as being very negative, well

unfortunately I look at this world and despair at the state it is

in, both materially and spirtually.

 

Victor

[Guest guest]

What Victor has to say is true. I was an ordained Baptist minister in Ontario, Canada, for many years and was astonished at how little people knew of their own spiritual heritage. And these were people who supposedly thought highly of the Bible as the revealed Word of God and studied it on a regular basis. Later, I became an ecumenical catholic (which I still am) and found things somewhat better, but not much. When I finally got to Ramakrishna a year or so ago, I felt like I had at last "come home", and I rejoice every day that I found Him, or He found me, whichever way you want to have it! But precious few people in Canada know His Name, or even care to. Part of the trouble is racism, plain and simple. What can a half naked man sitting on the floor and wearing what looks like a diaper teach US? People forget that Jesus was a dark skinned, dark haired Jew, not the blond, blue-eyed English speaking man they would like to think he was.Getting people past that

image is a lot of work; even mentioning that there are spiritual giants from India gets you an incredulous look. People will mention Gandhi, maybe, and then go on about the immigrants they do not like who are flocking to our major cities. Again, racial ignorance and prejudice. Change will come, but it will be slow. Putting a more western face on things might help; ie, dressing in western clothes. I know this sounds simplistic and idiotic, but people need to see past the saris and the dhotis, and they cannot. Wear western clothes, invite them in, and put on "native" costume later on. What harm can it do? Or are we clinging to our own image? Just a thought.This is a great site, by the way.Bill, in southern Ontariovictor127526

[Guest guest]

I certainly agree to what you said Victor. Unfortunately it is negative but I guess it reminds us of the truth. I havent personally spoken to many people in UK who have heard about Thakur and Swamiji. I would assume that atleast a small percentage of local people would have heard about Swamiji's teachings, afterall Swamiji had stayed in England for few months. I feel that it was just that phase of time when Satpurush like Swamiji, becuase of his aura and spiritual power attracted people. However, I also feel that it is not just "west" which is suffering from this illusion, I guess this infection is spreading in the "east" as well. I dont see many religious people in India nowadays and if there are they seem to be just pretending. The world seems to be revolving around money. I dont mean to offend truly devoted people out there. But, leave alone

Samadhi state it would be very pleasing to know or meet someone who is truly in touch with the supreme power. Tapasvi

Jiyo cricket on India cricket

Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time.

[Guest guest]

that is very true but it is also true that just over 3 years ago when I first started to become interested in Swami Vivekananda there was virtually nothing on the internet about him now there is loads also people like Dilip-uncle have been working alongside many influential people such as newly qualified teachers and western youth, the future of British society I think that although the progress made so far is relatively small, it will grow exponentially and it is this that gives so many of us such joy, however premature it may seem I think you are right, however, that we have to keep this in check and make sure that we keep in sight the bigger picture from Bijalvictor127526 <victorz wrote: I think a serious reality check

is in order here....Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Dear Bill,

 

The problem with Sri Ramakrishna is that we have a photograph of him.

He cannot be morphed at will. But then we have a colour photo of him

now seated on a marble floor, and a nice coloured background... so we

cannot really predict the future. Maybe he can be made a blond with

blue eyes too!! And dressed in jeans and a T shirt maybe, in the

standing photograph of his?

 

The old man would surely agree to that though he would soon open the

clothes thrust on him and fold them under his armpit as he has done to

his dhoti a number of times.

 

Swamiji would have loved a jeans clad Ramakrishna. He never could

really tolerate the rustic, uncouth attitude of his mentor.

 

Love & Regards,

Jagannath.

 

 

 

Putting a more western face on things might help; ie, dressing in

western clothes. I know this sounds simplistic and idiotic, but people

need to see past the saris and the dhotis, and they cannot. Wear

western clothes, invite them in, and put on " native " costume later on.

What harm can it do? Or are we clinging to our own image? Just a

thought.

>

>

> Bill, in southern Ontario

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Brother & Sisters..

Ijust signed as a member to this wonderful group.. My knowledge in

religion is very little.. I hope by this group I will learn and share

with my fellow freinds.. Im from Malaysia.. Thank you..

[Guest guest]

Welcome Raj, I am in Canada, a very long way from you. But in God, we are very close indeed!BillRaj <utamaraj wrote: Dear Brother & Sisters.. Ijust signed as a member to this wonderful group.. My knowledge in religion is very little.. I hope by this group I will learn and share with my fellow freinds.. Im from Malaysia.. Thank you.. Have you forgiven anyone lately?

7 bucks a month. This is Huge Music Unlimited

[Guest guest]

Welcome Raj, I'm from PJ,Malaysia.Shall update you with all the info

which take place in Malaysia.

 

Regards

Dinesh

Malaysia

[Guest guest]

Hello friends,

Having lived in US myself for some time my first impulse was also to

completely agree with Victor's assessment but today I was reminded of

something Swamiji said to his brother disciples. It don't have the

exact words but it was something like " Spread ony what he came to

teach, never mind his name that will spread of itself " . Swamiji once

also declared that at that time he had the power to bring two third (I

think) of the people in the world under the banner of Sri Ramakrishna

but that's not what he wanted to do. So we really shouldn't be

surprised that not many know Sri Ramakrishna's name around the world.

I think outside of Bengal the same might be true for India. Vedanta is

not like the other religions of the world. If a person expresses even

a little interest in any of the major religions there will be several

people running towards him to take him in. But vedanta is different

and in most cases it is the devotee who discovers this religion than

the religion discovering the devotee simply because everybody is not

ready to accept it. By going to the west Swamiji gave support to those

who extend their hands in need of help. With such blinding material

prosperity how can we expect the majority of west to think about

vedanta. It is for the few in search of Truth that he came there

because sincere seekers should not be at a disadvantage because of

geography and sincere seekers are always few.

Regards,

Siddharth

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Bill Smith, Your idea has the substance. Even when Swamiji went to US, he had to change his attire and make it acceptable to the fashion-frenzy westerners. There are two types of poeple one of whom judge others by outside appearance and the other who believe in the matters of inside. But, even those who are swayed by outside appearance first, may become good devotees when they realize that appearance really is of no value. But to reach these people and make them realize the truth is a great task. Though it should be accomplished. Indians mostly do not much depend on attires, and many of them only do with a loin cloth or like, exactly the way Gandhi or Ramakrishna Paramhansa used to be. Personally I feel, if Ramakrishna Paramhansa would have gone for paying even a little more attention to what he would wear, then that would not make him the great Paramhansa !! So the greatness lies in his wearing the

little piece of dhoti. But, to consider your point, this can be done as an experiment that initially we can represent his picture as a great man clad in good traditional Indian dress (jeans and t-shirt will be too much I guess), because I think westerners are not against good decent Indian dress that cover all body..(correct me if I am wrong here), like Swami Vivekananda wore in US and people accepted him after some difficulty. and then we can propagate his message and picture after which we can tell the 'Changed' US or Canadian people that "Because guys, now you know that dress or attire does not matter to identify yourself with the absolute truth or at least to realize ur human identity, so you must know that the Great Ramakrishna used to wear this type of clothes only".(sic).). Jokes apart, at least we can achieve some progress in this course. As in the words of Ramakrishna, Cleverness must be used cleverly to reach God. So, we can try to be clever

for a great purpose!! But I really wish to thank you Mr.Smith, you have given a thought how to propagate the great ideas in the West which in the truest sense can give westerners relief from the sorrows of material life. Satrajit Gupta

[Guest guest]

Friends, 'Rustic and uncouth' words are in our mind only. Where there is love and regard such words do not fit in.We puny humans full of dirt within want to measure God, who is ever pure, ever right and ever kind, with our standards! Let us remember the story of Sukhdev and his father passing by the pond where damsels were bathing! Purity and beauty is internal and not external. May He bless us all. Regards Chetanjagchat01 <jagchat01 wrote: Dear Bill,..........Swamiji would have loved a jeans clad Ramakrishna. He never could really tolerate the rustic, uncouth attitude of his mentor.Love & Regards,Jagannath.> > Bill, in southern Ontario>

[Guest guest]

Dear Victor, You are correct. I live in Australia. No westener knows about the great teachings of the Trio. We have ramakrishna math here in australia and people attend to it is only Inidans. That too the people who came here as students or who lived their life here for a long time. Others don't bother except very few. Thanks Shankarvictor127526

[Guest guest]

Dear All So carrying the argument of dressing up Sri Ramakrishna we could have Lord Siva also redressed / reattired. Get rid of the snakes and serpents, get rid of the Vibhuti.....we can go on. Its fun having these discussions. But hold on and lets think. Those who decide to walk away based upon appearance can wait a bit (or chose a more "fashionable" holy man out of so many around us today) until their minds reach a stage when they can see beyond external appearances. Their time has not yet come and that is fine....its a long journey to reach and understand Sri Ramakrishna. God gives you all the time to move at your own pace. In my humble view Sri Ramakrishna is complete and his message clear only if you accept him as he was. If his Mother Kali loved her dear child in that appearance we have no prerogative to change that. The simplicity and the inability to

stay overclothed or some call it uncouthness had a message. Perhaps we need to understand that more than half of the spiritual journey is all about looking beyond appearances to understand true reality. Best regards Devinder

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[Guest guest]

Thank you Brother Dinesh.... we r so close.. Im from Klang, but work

in KL.. Looking forward for your emails..

[Guest guest]

Thanks Devinder for a good reply ! Though initially I felt that a little bit clothing of Sri Ramakrishna's picture would make Him more acceptable in the West (we are more than sure that Indian or Eastern devotees do not at all bother about His attire as we accept Sri Ramakrishna and Gandhi's dress codes as the reflection of their realization of truth), yet at this moment reading your mail I feel it is quiet okay if we propagate Sri Ramakirshna as He was. I would love to bring the incident of Mahatma Gandhi who without caring whether westerners would accept his message or not, went through the busiest city of London clad in short dhoti. This brought wrath of so called British Royals and administrators like Churchill (who termed him as 'Half naked fakir'), but at the same time it should be remembered that he was greatly welcomed among the poor and common masses of London and how they loved him and endeared him and how they

longed to be with him could be clearly seen in the video clips that have been posted on the websites about Gandhi. Also, Jains propagate Lord Mahavira's words who did not wear even a single piece of cloth, but truly Jains are not ashamed of it instead they are proud to represent such a great soul who did not mind earthly covers and shed them with divine abhorrence ! I am compelled to feel now, that the great souls who ever walked on this earth, never ever cared for their attires ! Let it be so. Going back to Lord Krishna's words in the Holy Gita, we, the common people must follow the path which was shown by God's greatest children. Satrajit

[Guest guest]

Point taken. But I was talking about those who are not so far along the way and who need a little help. Sarcasm is never helpful.DEVINDER AHUJA <devahuja wrote: Dear All So carrying the argument of dressing up Sri Ramakrishna we could have Lord Siva also redressed / reattired.

[Guest guest]

Dear Bill Sorry....I deeply apologise for the tone of sarcasm in the first few lines of my mail. We often end up doing things which we never intend and do not even realize until pointed out by somebody. Best regards Devinder

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