English Translation of 17th morning speech

May 20, 2003

People who are seeing Shivashankar Baba for the first time, will find

it difficult to understand him and his ways. Generally speaking,

spiritualists and saints in the present times have cetain

characteristics and identity which people over the years have

stereotyped a mahaan to have. The way I work, the way i conduct my

work looks different when compared to other mahaans. Which is right

and which is wrong is immaterial, it is a question of how you choose

to work. Long back, villains in Tamil movies, like Nambiar used to

twist their arm and speak with a menacing voice. All villains

including P.S.Veerappan acted similarly. In recent movies, the

villains look better than the hero, do their job coolly and go away.

Over the years people have come to understand mahaans and

spirituality similarly. I have broken the traditional approach of

mahaans and tread my own path. Whatever the other saints accomplished

in a serious manner, i am doing it coolly. This approach is better.

Someone came back from Tirunelveli and got halwa (sweet) for you all.

Some students who passed exams are distributing sweets and someone is

distributing chakra pongal.

Spirituality has been stereotyped. People have come to believe that a

swami means, people should approach him with respect and religious

fervour and fall at his feet. In some cases there is set system to

approach some saints. I am the first one to have broken such

traditions. By breaking them, have i stopped progress of

spirituality? On the contrary, i have helped to spread it more

effectively. I bring people young and old here, making them feel as

if they are going to a relative's place. Else small children would

not even come here. They would tell their parents to go and

themselves stay back at home doing other things. In fact, children

take more liking to come here because this atmosphere is more

congenial for them. We have a system and practice that is more

appealing to them.

(Quote from Thirukkural)

" Whatever thing of whatsoever kind it be, its wisdom part in each

thing is the very thing to see. "

Thats spirituality. If we go to a spiritual person we should not pay

attention to whether he wearing a chain, pyjama-kurta, watch, chain,

having a nice hair-style, a beard etc. These are not important. You

should pay attention to the truth in what he is saying. I am not

asking you to follow, i am asking you to just flow. I dont believe in

Guru-Shishya (disciple) relationship. It is not possible to have a

perfect relationship. I can give you many examples. You all know

Swami Vivekananda. His Guru was Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. When one

talks about Guru-Shishya relationship, one is reminded of Ramakrishna

and Vivekananda. Vivekanada did not have total belief in Ramakrishna,

can you believe that? I will give you an example.

Vivekananda once got severe stomach ache. It could not be cured.

Vivekananda went to Sarada Devi as Ramakrishna was not there at that

time. Vivekanda told Sarada Devi, " That old man of yours says he has

given me lot of powers. I am not able to cure a small stomach ache.

Is this all his power can do? " . A true Gnani should have accepted his

stomach ache as his karma. Paramacharyar was like that.

Paramacharyar once had stomach ache. Seeing him ill, people around

him were shedding tears. Paramacharyar asked, " I also have come to

this world to undergo karma, I have come to suffer this, why are you

feeling bad about it? "

Another example. The King of Kerala once came to see Adi Shankara.

His disciples told the king that their Master was ill and he cant be

seen now. Immediately, Adi Shankara came out and conversed with the

king for an hour. King then asked " You disciples were saying you were

not well, how come you seem to be up and about? " . For that Adi

Shankara said, " Do you see that palakai (head or seat rest)? " . The

palakai was shaking. Adi Shankara continued, " You are the king of the

country. Seeing you is equivalent to seeing all your 50 lakh

subjects. From that point of view, I as an acharya, have to show my

respects to you. Because through you I am going to serve your

kingdom. I have transferred my sickness temporarily to that palakai.

The moment you leave, I will take back my illness into my body. "

These instances really happened. Ramana Maharishi had cancer. He was

reading a book while a doctor was operating his arm. The same

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa had cancer in his throat. He prayed to Kali

because his disciples asked him to do so. Kali appeared and told

him, " You are too innocent. You have lots of powers, these people may

cheat and take them away. So transfer all your powers to Vivekananda

and come to me. " This incident is cited in history.

So a Gnani has undergone his karmas coolly.

(Quote from Kural)

" To bear due penitential pains, while no offence he causes others, is

the right type of penitence. "

These Mahaans took it sportingly. What should Vivekananda have done?

Ramakrishna had already given him Diksha. Vivekananda could have said

it is due to Karma but instead cast aspersions on his Guru. He did

not believe his Guru really. Another example. Pavahari Baba was a

great Mahaan. Vivekananda went to see him. Pavahari Baba was a very

popular Swami with lot of disciples. Vivekananda thought it might be

better to be his disciple than Ramakrishna's. When he was about to do

it, he saw an apparition of Ramakrishna frowning at him. Just because

of fear Vivekananda dropped that idea.

Guru-Disciple relationship is like a husband-wife relationship. Just

like a wife cannot entertain ideas about separating from her husband

after seeing another handsome man, a disciple should not leave his

Guru. So whoever you think was a great disciple, he was not loyal to

his own master. Forget about all this. This problem exists even in

Gods.

Take the example of Krishna. Krishna, when young, asked people not to

worship Indra but the Govardhana Giri. Indra got angry because of

that. He caused heavy rains. Krishna then held up the mountain as an

umbrella and saved everyone. By looking at this Indra should have

realized that even though Krishna is a small boy, he is the Lord

Himself and is displaying his prowess. He should have backed out at

that time. He did not. Later, When Krishna asked Indra for a

Paarijaatha flower on His wife's request, Indra having realized that

Krishna was Lord Himself, should have brought all the Paarijaatha

flowers for Krishna. Indra refused which resulted in a fight. Even a

person like Indra who knew that Krishna was Lord Himself did not have

the right thinking.

Take the example of Brahma. He was the person responsible for

creating Krishna. He himself got jealous of Krishna. Brahma hid the

Aayarkula Elephants and boys in a cave. Krishna, in order to teach a

lesson to Brahma, with his own powers created those elephants and

boys and sent them home. He disguised Himself as Brahma, went to

Brahma's abode. He told people there that there would be someone

similar to him in appearance who would come to Brahma loka and asked

them to " take care " of that person. Brahma was jealous of his own

creation.

I am giving you examples from our own Puranas only. So as long as man

uses his intelligence, he will always have this ignorance of

differentiating things based on likes/dislikes, high/low, jealousy

etc. In worldly sense people ask, " dont you have any intelligence? " .

I am not talking about that. There is state beyond intelligence in

which there will be no thoughts. Mind becomes blank. I should forget

myself and become You. Such a state is the height of spirituality. It

does not come to everybody. Anyone who gets to that state will remain

unmoved like me.

Today morning I met a Swami representing a group from Kerala which is

taking over an Ayurvedic College. I am getting an Ayurveda Project

set up for them. I told him that I am doing this project only for

him, I am not interested in all these. As far as i am concerned, i am

already dead. The Swami asked me not to utter such inauspicious

statements. I told him as far as this world is concerned i am dead.

Nothing of this world affects me. I also dont have any liking to

things of this world.

Is Baba telling something new? No. Thaayumaanavar says, laugh like a

dead person. Assume you are called Kuppuswamy and you are dead. They

have taken you to burial ground. You are not going to know if the

people who are there are spitting at you or praising you. Try to act

like the dead person while living itself. Neither bouques nor

brickbats will affect you. I have attained that state. I dont

differentiate people based on sex, religion, age. You wont understand

this until you reach that state. I have reached the highest state in

spirituality by God's grace. There is nothing beyong this state. I

myself am surprised that nothing is there beyond that state, but

thats the truth.

I am the only one in India who has gone 10 times to Kailash. Every

year I go to Kailash I get some experience. I saw Pillayar

(Vinaayaka). I saw Muruga who came as a small boy and gave me a

handful of stones and said " Uncle, Take these stones and build a

temple for Father " . Muruga calls me Uncle. Mother Ganges has called

me as Uncle. In February 1985, I had gone to take a bath in Ganga. I

just had a Vesti (8 ft of cloth worn waist down) and a hand bag made

of cloth. I kept them on the ground and took a dip for the first

time. A 3 year old girl with one hand on her waist said, " Uncle, so

you have come to take bath after all these years? " . So Mother Ganges

and Muruga call me Uncle. Muruga asked me to buold a temple for Lord

Shiva.

On another occassion, when I was sleeping at the bottom of Kailash, I

saw all the Devas lined up in all their celestial attire on their

celestial vehicles. I was surprised. All the Devas bowed down and

saluted me. I told them I am the one who should salute them as they

are the Devas. I never tell lies. Spirituality is about speaking the

truth. All the Devas in a chorus voice said " You are the Lord

Badrinaarayana Himself " . After reaching such states I am sitting here

coolly, eating halwa and chatting with people. When you know of your

spiritual heights, you should have the conviction that have reached

the state beyond which there is nothing.

Paramacharya was such a great saint in these recent times. He is not

an ordinary man. He himself said that I am Mahajyothi. In a worldly

sense I am no good. But such a great saint after seeing me said i am

Mahajyothi. Its not only my personal experience, such saints also

understand. When Rama came to this world only the 6 Rishis knew about

Him. Similarly, Visiri Saamiyar in Thiruvannamalai

said, " Shivashankar has gone to greater levels in spirituality than

Aurobindo and Chaitanya. He is God's Prime Minister " . See, he does

not have anything to be accomplished by telling that. Kodi Swami, who

was alive for 400 years, in a place near Pollachi said " This

grandfather himself is Kailasam, This grandfather himself is

Vaikundam. Go around the world and do good to the people " . Once

another great Siddha called Alex and myself were sitting in front of

Kodi Mahan. Alex asked Kodi Mahaan, " Swami what should i do? " . Kodi

Mahaan pointed to me and said " Grandfather is Mahavishnu. You are all

Rishis and Siddhas and should support this Grandfather " . Kodi Mahaan

used to talk like that. Not one or two, i have had many experiences

with Mahaans.

Lets talk in the worldly sense. My horoscope and Paramcharyars

horoscope are the same. Saturn is exalted in both the horoscopes.

Publishers of a newletter in Indian Express asked for my horoscope

and thumb prints and studied them. They presented it to leading

astrologers in India. Indian Express published a 3 to 4 page article

on me. It said whetever purpose Paramacharya and Shivashankar Baba

came to this world for, they will definitely achieve it.

I am basing my explanations on whatever worldly yardsticks you use.

All the God's marks like bow, arrow, Sangu (conch), chakra, trishul

etc belonging to the ten avatars are there in my palm. Those marks

are marked in the photograph. So we have Horoscope, Naadis, Mahaans

testimonies apart from my own experiences.

More than anything else look at the results which i have produced in

a very short time. There are no rich people and politicians backing

me. I just have educated middle class people with me. Making use of

such people, without accepting donations, taking loans, begging,

performing paada pujas for money, I have created a beautiful ultra-

modern setting here. All these things cannot be achieved without

power. Thats the proof.

For example, this mic is working, that fan is working. So we can

conclude there is electricity. I have done so many good things so I

have the power, otherwise it is not possible. Dont analyse me and my

methods. Just believe me and have faith, you will be benefitted. Its

a waste of time. First of all, i am not obligated to you. Have you

given me a single ruppee? No one has given me anything nor do i take

anything. I am not obligated to behave like a saint because you

expect me to behave like an insane man. You want me to be insane but

I want to be sane. Dont analyze me and my methods. It may look that I

am arrogant but this is my message to the world. All these times, you

were laying down rules for saints, a new saint has come who is laying

down rules for you. If you listen you will benefit.

May 21, 2003

Shankaram Siva ShanKaram,

Dear Ganesh pattabhi,

Thank you very much for the translation of Baba's speech. For those, like

me, who are not proficient in Tamil and can not grasp all that is said in

the speech (though I regularly download and listen), this is of immense

benefit.

Shall be grateful if you could do so as often as possible.

kind regards

Arun Kumar

gpattabhi [gpattabhi]

Wednesday, May 21, 2003 1:35 AM