Guest guest Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Question: When the parents of a child are hale and healthy, why is it that they beget a child with health problems? Whose Karma is it? Baba: It may be that the Father and Mother themselves have the karma of thinking why they begot a child like this. Otherwise such children will not be born to those parents. For everyone its the same. Take for example Paramacharya. He became a sannyasi. But according to his horoscope, at a predestined time in his life he had to undergo difficulties due to progeny. Sannyasi does not have a son. But to a Sannyasi, his disciple becomes a son. Exactly at that time, Jayendra Saraswati left everything and went to Merkara. So for such a big mahaan, if there is planetary alignment capable of producing difficulties, it materializes. So in this world, a testing period is interconnected. We talk of Naaga Dosham (Snake God affliction). We say it will affect 7 consecutive generations. So when an atma has to suffer in Kaala Sarpa Dosham, the family in which the atma takes the body by birth, will already have that Dosham. Otherwise it wont be born in that family. These things are inter-linked. This is a king to feeding in data and programming a computer. When you read the Puranas, you will know how these things are inter-linked. Dasaratha goes for hunting. He hears at a distance as if an elephant is drinking water. He shoots an arrow called Chaturvedi (precise arrow shot in the direction of a sound). A young son of a Rishi , whose parents were blind, had made them sit in a safe place and come to the stream to get some water. He got killed by that arrow. After hearing a human cry, Dasaratha went to the boy and pleaded that he had killed him mistakenly. The boy said, " My parents are blind and old and I am everything for them. I have been taking care of them until now. Now that you have killed me, who is going to take care of them? " Dasaratha said, " I will take care of them. " He then took the boy in his arms and went to the place where the boy's parents were waiting. He pleaded with the parents, " I have done this mistakenly. Please forgive me. " If one looks at this legally, this was an unintentional crime. Being a king, he also offered to take care of the blind parents. But due to the anger in the spur of the moment, they said, " He was the only child we had. You killed him. So we curse you to get afflicted by separation from your son. " Dasaratha did not have any children at that time but he already was cursed with Puthra sogam (afflication due to son). Later, with Vasishta's advice, he performed Puthra Kaamesti yaagam (a yaaga to beget a son), Rishi Rishyasringa obtained the Paayasam as the fruit of yaaga. Dasaratha gave it to his queens which resulted in the births of Rama, Lakshmana, Bharatha and Shatrugna. Krishna had a similar experience. Gaandhaari, wife of Dhritarashtra, as a penance tied her eyes blind because her husband was blind and used to take care of him very well. Having lost all her 100 sons in the Mahabharata war, she was in a pretty bad emotional shape. When Krishna came in front of her, she got angry momentarily. She said, " You were the one who killed all my sons, I curse your Yadava caste to get destroyed totally. " Krishna said, " You have cursed me because of your Motherly feelings. You are a Pativrata (role model of a wife). You have been performing a penance by tying up your eyes throughout your life. I accept your curse. " Meanwhile, some boys who were sons of Yadava Rishis, playfully dressed up a boy as a pregnant lady and took him to Dhuruvaasa Rishi. They said, " O Rishi, you know astrology very well. Can you tell us whether she will beget a boy or a girl. " Dhuruvaasa cursed them that their clan will be destroyed. So what was done playfully turned out to have serious consequences. So Krishna took a curse from Gaandhaari and the Yaadava boys got cursed by Rishi. So you see the situation was set up for the destruction of Yaadava clan. So the curses we get with or without our own knowledge, come true. Lets look at another incident. Mahavishnu was in his abode with two gatekeepers guarding Him. The Rishis wanted to gate crash and see Mahavishnu. As part of their duty, the gate keepers tried to stop the Rishis. But the Rishis cursed them to be born on the earth. When Mahavishnu stepped out to the gate, the gatekeepers asked for justice. " We were only fulfilling our duty, these Rishis have cursed us. " Mahavishnu said, " If they have cursed you without proper reason, the Rishis will have to bear the consequences. But because of the power of their penance, their curse has to take effect. " For example, you have an atom bomb. Whether you drop the bomb intentionally or unintentionally, the destruction due to it cannot be prevented. So the power they had resulted in whetever they spoke to come true. Mahavishnu said, " You two have to undergo the curse. " The gatekeepers quipped, " We have done our duty properly. How are you going to reward us for that? " Mahavishnu said, " Either you can choose to take 3 births in which you would always chatise me or take 100 births in which you would always praise me. " They said, " Instead of praising you, we will come back to you quickly. " So in 3 births, the two gatekeepers were born as demons. During Varaha Avataram, they were born as Hiranyachan and Hirankasipu. In Ramayana, they came as Ravana and Kumbakarna. In Mahabharata, they took birth as Sisupala and Dantavakra. They are just gatekeepers. But when you look at the drama, you feel as if they were giving a good fight to Varaha Swami, Rama and Krishna. Its all a drama going on. In this world there are lots of instances like these that keep happening. If you observe you will notice them. You read the Puranas without observing these things. What was Ramayana? Someone kidnapped someone else's wife and the husband wrested her back. We can summarize the story of Ramayan in one line. Is that really Ramayana? Every character was carefully created, the significance of each character was brought out like a case study. In management, you have case studies. They take up an issue and see what they can learn from that. So all these puranas were not written for their stories in a nutshell. If that was the case, why Vinaayaka, the Lord, should accept the request of Veda Vyasa to write a Purana for World's good. Veda Vyasa went to the extent of saying that there was no one else fit to write the Mahabharata. Vinaayaka wrote it by breaking off one of his tusks. The intention here was to deliver great morals to the posterity. You all read Panchatantra. You hear there were 4 bulls. When they were together they were able to fend off the jackal. When they fought among themselves, the fox killed the bulls one by one and ate them. We dont know where this bull and jackal incident took place. Why do they tell this story then? It brings out the moral, " United we stand, divided we fall. " Its just a story. There are many such stories like Panchatantra, Aesop fables, Tenaliraman stories etc. Whether these incidents really occurred is irrelevant. We should learn from the morals. So you have a story that asks you to be united. Harischandran underwent many difficulties while adhering to truth is another story. You see how many characters they create for that story. Harischandra, his wife etc and intricacies in the story like she only can see her Mangalyam etc. See they weave the story so beautifully. They have a son and when he has to be cremated, Harischandra is insistent on his wife giving the fee for the cremation. When you see all this, you may get even angry with Harischandra. Why is he doing this to his own son, you may think. You should see the moral of the story. It says whatever be the situation, she may be Harischandra's wife, but when he is the caretaker of crematoria, he should not bring his personal life in it. He has to do that duty perfectly. Then why do you think that it took place a long time back and is not relevant to you? Let's say you are a Police Officer or an IAS officer or a Tashildar or a Principal. You have to be like Harischandra and do your duty well. If your relative stabs someone, you should not let him free. So all these stories are always relevant. For example, in Bhagvat Gita, Krishna preaches to Arjuna. If it was meant for only Arjuna, its a waste. It is meant for everyone. Arjuna is not a character only in Bhagavat Gita. You are all Arjunas too. In the battlefield of life where you have all these relatives and friends, Gita tells you what kind of values one should have. Assume you are a poor clerk earning Rs.1500. Also assume you have a sister to be married. In a worldly sense, it is a difficult situation. He may need at least Rs.20000, lets say. He is an Arjuna. Not able to face the realty, Arjuna was ready to leave the battlefield. So assume Krishna is preaching Gita to the clerk. You can assume Krishna saying the same thing to the clerk as he told Arjuna, " You should not leave the battlefield. Do you duty after placing faith in God. God Himself will pave a way for you. You should not shirk responsibility. " Thats what Mahabharata teaches to the 21st century. Take another example. Lets say we have a couple of old parents, son is still unemployed. So the son is like Arjuna, he is trying to run away from the battlefield of life. At that time he should remember what Krishna said in the Gita. He should ponder, " Myself and my wife have food thrice a day. We will henceforth eat only once a day. From whatever we save, we will feed my parents. " If you think like this, you have remembered Gita. If you are thinking of running away without facing the reality, then you have not learnt anything from Gita. Let's say you have a problem in your own business. When the problem comes up, you have to face it. The G.V films producer had loans to the tune of Rs 200 crores ($40 million). He was a defeated Arjuna. He thought taking his life was the only way out. He had the capability of obtaining loan of Rs 200 crores. Not everyone can do that. Will anyone give you Rs. 200 let alone Rs 200 crores? He had some power for people to believe him and loan him that kind of money. When you have such a power, why do you want to run away from the scene? Face it. Amitabh Bacchan also had lots of loans. Amitabhs case was much worse. He started ABC company and ran up a loan of Rs.3000 crores. Even Rajiv and Sonia Gandhi refused to bail him out. Lots of people known to him at high places turned their backs at him. But Amitabh went to the Hanuman temple and offered Vada malai, wore talisman, went to Sabari malai a few times, he never gave up. He faced the reality. Thats Gitopadesam. Suddenly, in UP, Mulayam Singh's friend Amar Singh, a kingmaker, offered to help him. He gave a moral hand to Amitabh and propped him up. Amitabh is now the 10th wealthiest person in India. So anything in this world will pose difficulty only at a particular juncture. Face it. Just because a dog is chasing you, you should not try to run, otherwise you have to keep running. Stop and face the dog, the dog also will stop chasing. So all problems are not without solutions. If a God cannot solve your problem, then there is no need for a God. If really God is so powerful and your faith in him is very steadfast, all these problems become poweless. " Dont tell God how big your problems are, Tell your problems how big God is. " What you do is, you go to God and badger him saying I have so many problems. Why dont you tell the problems, " Muruga is a big God. Ambal is a major Power. You cant do anything to me. " I gave you examples of two cases. G.V ran away from the battlefield. Just because he committed suicide, is anyone saying he was good? They are going to chastise him further. When you have decided to die why cant you live? This is my quotation. What is the worst that can happen, you may come literally to the streets. Come to the street, what is wrong about this? Even the street belongs to God. In this world no one is rich and no one is poor. Life is like a dream journey. Dont think a rich person is really rich. Take this example, in a train someone knocked loudly on the door. What you did, you opened the door lest he fall down and injure himself. He occupied a place near the toilet. He searched desperately for a place to sit. Even inside toilet there were a couple of people standing. The train was full. He slowly slid himself nearer to a seat. When the person occupying the seat went to toilet, he occupied a part of it. Slowly, he was almost totally seated. When another person went to the toilet, he seated himself very comfortably. After two people got down in a station, he guaged the situation, and decided to lie down and pretended as if he was sleeping after covering his face with a towel. Otherwise, if he appeared to be awake, other would make him sit. When the next station came, he himself went and bolted the door from the inside so that no one will be able to come in. Just an hour back he did not have place to stand, now he was acting as if the whole train was his. The whole world is like this. No property belongs to anybody in this world. The fellow who is aggressive capitalizes, the fellow who is meek is left behind. Go to any registrar office, the buyer and seller's name only will keep changing. How many ever encumbrance certificate you have, the detail of the property will always be the same. That's because the property belongs to no one, it belongs to God. I am amused whenever i see a property transaction, the buyer and seller will ask for a copy of the document. Everything is same in the document, only the buyer and seller name changes. What is there in the copy of the document, it is there in all law books. You are just going to fill up the blanks. Nothing in this world belongs to anyone and nothing is real. Why do you want to commit suicide in this unreal world? Why do you think you have lost respect or fallen in the eyes of others is because of your ego. You have ahankaram and worry about what other people will think about you. In this world of a sea, you are a wave and he is a wave. Both waves get generated in the sea and merge in the sea of God. Why should one wave be afraid of the other. When you were well off, were you tense at any time? Though you have failed, it is temporary. When you were successful, you were boasting. If you have failed accept the reality. Try to see both of them equally. Thats penance. Penance is the art of having equinamous disposition to joy and sadness, respect and disrespect. Not being happy when you are successful and sad when you are not. This is life. If you know this, nobody can disturb you. With the help of God you can fight and win. Take my example, I was successful till 1984. I never failed for want of hardwork. I decided I dont want anything and went in search of God. I went away leaving all my business behind. God's wish was I should come back, live with my family and continue my business and I should serve Him. He gave me a three point formula. Whether it was acceptable to me or not, I came back to find my business in doldrums. Beginning 1984 through 1988, my business went into a very bad shape. There would always be debtors in cars in front of my house. Lot of people are a witness to my good and bad times. They know me since the times when we used to have beer parties. I used to have such parties. I used to have a budget of Rs. 50,000 for children's birthday. I used to perform yagna with 2 packets of cigarrette a day in those days, now I perform a different type of yagna. There are people who have seen me doing both types of yagnas. Dont think, i am giving you armchair advice. I have faced it myself in my life. The dress I am wearing today is new. I have got 12 new dresses in the last three days. In fact I dont even know who gave it to me. I told them not to bring dresses, then I told them the same through the magazine and through notices, no one seems to be paying any heed to it. I dont care if you dont believe me, i have 2000 dresses. No one in Madras will have so many dresses. I have 130 wrist watches. The one I wore in the morning is different and this one is different. I have nearly 50 to 100 sovereigns of gold, i dont touch it either. I dont have anything to accomplish with that. As I told in the morning, I am wearing this chain because I have Perumals dollar in that. It will remind me of God and it will help you, thats why I am wearing it. I dont even need these. You will be taken aback when you see the number of sandals I have. There is no dearth for anything. I have four golden tumblers. Everything is in abundance. See, that lizard is clicking, it says I am telling the truth. Ok, personally Shivashankar Baba does not have any bank account. But today my bank balance is at least 1.2 crores. Can you believe? Thats the bank balance of this institution. Whether it is loan and has to be given back is a different issue. I am not suffering for want of one rupee. Just think, so many people have come since morning. Have I taken a single rupee from any one of you? Do I have a Hundi for collection? Or am I collecting donation? Have I asked you to bring anything? I have been helping conducting yaagam for you all and served you food. This is power. Look at Shivashankar Baba's life. Imagine what everyone would have been thinking of me when I went in search of God. " This guy is an idiot. He is going after God after having lost his face in business. " They did tell that. My own relatives said that. Now, if they have problems, they come to me. In fact they are the ones standing first in the queue asking me to solve their problems. (To be continued...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Shannkaram shivam shankaram Ganesh- I am much thankful to you for taking the time and efforts to translate Baba's speeches in English. It is really helping a lot of us in understanding it all and hence gain knowledge. This is the best gift you can give us all. Look forward to the next one- love Jayashree --- gpattabhi <gpattabhi wrote: > Question: > When the parents of a child are hale and healthy, > why is it that they > beget a child with health problems? Whose Karma is > it? > > Baba: > It may be that the Father and Mother themselves have > the karma of > thinking why they begot a child like this. Otherwise > such children > will not be born to those parents. For everyone its > the same. Take > for example Paramacharya. He became a sannyasi. But > according to his > horoscope, at a predestined time in his life he had > to undergo > difficulties due to progeny. Sannyasi does not have > a son. But to a > Sannyasi, his disciple becomes a son. Exactly at > that time, Jayendra > Saraswati left everything and went to Merkara. So > for such a big > mahaan, if there is planetary alignment capable of > producing > difficulties, it materializes. > > So in this world, a testing period is > interconnected. We talk of > Naaga Dosham (Snake God affliction). We say it will > affect 7 > consecutive generations. So when an atma has to > suffer in Kaala Sarpa > Dosham, the family in which the atma takes the body > by birth, will > already have that Dosham. Otherwise it wont be born > in that family. > These things are inter-linked. This is a king to > feeding in data and > programming a computer. When you read the Puranas, > you will know how > these things are inter-linked. > > Dasaratha goes for hunting. He hears at a distance > as if an elephant > is drinking water. He shoots an arrow called > Chaturvedi (precise > arrow shot in the direction of a sound). A young son > of a Rishi , > whose parents were blind, had made them sit in a > safe place and come > to the stream to get some water. He got killed by > that arrow. After > hearing a human cry, Dasaratha went to the boy and > pleaded that he > had killed him mistakenly. The boy said, " My parents > are blind and > old and I am everything for them. I have been taking > care of them > until now. Now that you have killed me, who is going > to take care of > them? " Dasaratha said, " I will take care of them. " > He then took the > boy in his arms and went to the place where the > boy's parents were > waiting. He pleaded with the parents, " I have done > this mistakenly. > Please forgive me. " If one looks at this legally, > this was an > unintentional crime. Being a king, he also offered > to take care of > the blind parents. But due to the anger in the spur > of the moment, > they said, " He was the only child we had. You killed > him. So we curse > you to get afflicted by separation from your son. " > > Dasaratha did not have any children at that time but > he already was > cursed with Puthra sogam (afflication due to son). > Later, with > Vasishta's advice, he performed Puthra Kaamesti > yaagam (a yaaga to > beget a son), Rishi Rishyasringa obtained the > Paayasam as the fruit > of yaaga. Dasaratha gave it to his queens which > resulted in the > births of Rama, Lakshmana, Bharatha and Shatrugna. > > Krishna had a similar experience. Gaandhaari, wife > of Dhritarashtra, > as a penance tied her eyes blind because her husband > was blind and > used to take care of him very well. Having lost all > her 100 sons in > the Mahabharata war, she was in a pretty bad > emotional shape. When > Krishna came in front of her, she got angry > momentarily. She > said, " You were the one who killed all my sons, I > curse your Yadava > caste to get destroyed totally. " Krishna said, " You > have cursed me > because of your Motherly feelings. You are a > Pativrata (role model of > a wife). You have been performing a penance by tying > up your eyes > throughout your life. I accept your curse. " > > Meanwhile, some boys who were sons of Yadava Rishis, > playfully > dressed up a boy as a pregnant lady and took him to > Dhuruvaasa Rishi. > They said, " O Rishi, you know astrology very well. > Can you tell us > whether she will beget a boy or a girl. " Dhuruvaasa > cursed them that > their clan will be destroyed. So what was done > playfully turned out > to have serious consequences. So Krishna took a > curse from Gaandhaari > and the Yaadava boys got cursed by Rishi. So you see > the situation > was set up for the destruction of Yaadava clan. > > So the curses we get with or without our own > knowledge, come true. > Lets look at another incident. Mahavishnu was in his > abode with two > gatekeepers guarding Him. The Rishis wanted to gate > crash and see > Mahavishnu. As part of their duty, the gate keepers > tried to stop the > Rishis. But the Rishis cursed them to be born on the > earth. When > Mahavishnu stepped out to the gate, the gatekeepers > asked for > justice. " We were only fulfilling our duty, these > Rishis have cursed > us. " Mahavishnu said, " If they have cursed you > without proper reason, > the Rishis will have to bear the consequences. But > because of the > power of their penance, their curse has to take > effect. " For example, > you have an atom bomb. Whether you drop the bomb > intentionally or > unintentionally, the destruction due to it cannot be > prevented. So > the power they had resulted in whetever they spoke > to come true. > Mahavishnu said, " You two have to undergo the > curse. " The gatekeepers > quipped, " We have done our duty properly. How are you > going to reward > us for that? " Mahavishnu said, " Either you can choose > to take 3 births > in which you would always chatise me or take 100 > births in which you > would always praise me. " They said, " Instead of > praising you, we will > come back to you quickly. " So in 3 births, the two > gatekeepers were > born as demons. During Varaha Avataram, they were > born as Hiranyachan > and Hirankasipu. In Ramayana, they came as Ravana > and Kumbakarna. In > Mahabharata, they took birth as Sisupala and > Dantavakra. They are > just gatekeepers. But when you look at the drama, > you feel as if they > were giving a good fight to Varaha Swami, Rama and > Krishna. Its all a > drama going on. > > In this world there are lots of instances like these > that keep > happening. If you observe you will notice them. You > read the Puranas > without observing these things. What was Ramayana? > Someone kidnapped > someone else's wife and the husband wrested her > back. We can > summarize the story of Ramayan in one line. Is that > really Ramayana? > Every character was carefully created, the > significance of each > character was brought out like a case study. In > management, you have > case studies. They take up an issue and see what > they can learn from > that. So all these puranas were not written for > their stories in a > nutshell. If that was the case, why Vinaayaka, the > Lord, should > accept the request of Veda Vyasa to write a Purana > for World's good. > Veda Vyasa went to the extent of saying that there > was no one else > fit to write the Mahabharata. Vinaayaka wrote it by > breaking off one > === message truncated === The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Ganesh, Indeed ... It's a blessing for those of us who understand little or no tamil Thank you so much. I really really do appreciate the time and effort that must have gone into it. It would be selfish(and greedy !) on my part to expect to see more translations posted to the group, but kindly continue to do so, as and when time permits Thanks again, -Rema - madhusudan jayashree Friday, May 23, 2003 10:26 AM Re: English translation of 15th eve speech-Part I Shannkaram shivam shankaramGanesh-I am much thankful to you for taking the time andefforts to translate Baba's speeches in English. It isreally helping a lot of us in understanding it all andhence gain knowledge. This is the best gift you cangive us all.Look forward to the next one-loveJayashree--- gpattabhi <gpattabhi wrote:> Question:> When the parents of a child are hale and healthy,> why is it that they > beget a child with health problems? Whose Karma is> it?> <snip> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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