Guest guest Posted January 5, 2002 Report Share Posted January 5, 2002 In a message dated 5/1/02 20:11:41 GMT Standard Time, francies2 writes: Francie, if only we could question our doctors like that - if we did we would never find another doctor to take us onto their lists - the NHS is a shambles and outdated, we should really have the same sort of system in place that the rest of the world seems to find works. Marianne > Well that doctor did not want to be my cardiologist anymore. Too > bad, but many doctors I have seen are very sure that there is nothing > to learn other than what they learned in school. > > francie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2002 Report Share Posted January 5, 2002 Morning Ron, >Dr Mercola is not the last word but this is not just his opinion. While that is certainly true, I like his style. He is plain spoken and does not beat around the bush as some people do in similar positions. I just made my final trip to the blood lab yesterday and now am ready to become a 2002 guinea pig with many new supplements and ideas. Of course some came from Dr. Mercola, maybe a few from Adelle Davis, some from Dr. Campbell Douglass, others form Dr. David Williams , and some from this list. My coconut oil has not arrived yet. But.... my friend has arrived in the Philippines. Just got the first email from him this am. My goals for the new year are few, but important ones. Increase overall cholesterol and HDL Keep very low glucose levels ( and blood insulin ) More workouts per week with weights and the treadmill Help the circulation in my feet a bit ( they still get cold when outside for long periods) Eat more fats and less bread which is nearly ZERO now. Find better sources for sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds and brazil nuts. Formulate the best trailmix in the world today Blend a few powdered minerals to add to my water. ( am working on that and have some materials in stock. I need to get out the calculator ) Convince my friend who has had two heart attacks to quit believing his stupid cardiologist. I have met this guy, talked with him, and with a cholesterol of 160, is still taking drugs. This is the cardiologist, not my friend who is doing this. Other than that..... I have nothing to do. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2002 Report Share Posted January 5, 2002 Convince my friend who has had two heart attacks to quit believing his stupid cardiologist. I have met this guy, talked with him, and with a cholesterol of 160, is still taking drugs. This is the cardiologist, not my friend who is doing this. Other than that..... I have nothing to do. Good for you!!!! I had a very interesting conversation with my cardiologist who was incensed that I refused to take cholesterol lowering meds, high blood pressure meds, beta blockers etc after the heart attack. it went something likes this. me " I would prefer to work with you on natural remedies for high cholesterol. Doesn't high cholesterol mean my liver may not be working right? " doc: " there are no double blind, well run scientific studies that show that any so called natural remedy will afftec cholesterol " me: " my blood pressure is not high, why do I need blood pressure loweringm meds? " doc: " because you are a prime candidate for high blood pressure. " me: " since beta blockers are for a heart that is out of rythm, and mine is not, why do I need beta blockers? " doc: " because you are a prime candidate for arythmia. " me: " aren't there natural things to do to counteract those things I am a prime candidate for? " Studies show that only the meds I have mentioned will work. " me: " and where are those studies from? " doc: " they are well documented at medical centers, med schools and other prestigious facilities. " me: " oh, and who funds these studies? " doc: " well the phameceutical companies of course, they are the only ones who have the kind of funding necessary to do those tests. " me: " oh, I see, and who provides the meds to be prescribed by you? " doc: " the pharmecuetical companies of course? " He was acting a little confused on on guard at this point. me: " and who gives you all the information about these drugs, do you get if from other doctors, or jornals or what. " doc: " much of the information is supplied by the companies who supply the meds, some comes from journals. " me: " do you ever read anything about how the studies are conducted to see if what you are being told seems to make sense to you? doc: " I don't have time to do my own research, I trust the researchers, after all, the FDA must approve all medications. " me: " haven't there been lots of drugs taken off the market even after the FDA approves them because the studies were somehow not complete. " doc: That doesn't happen often in my experience and I trust the studies. " me: " Oh, I see, the companies that provide the meds do the studies to prove they do what they say they do. Isn't that kind of like the fox guarding the hen house? " Well that doctor did not want to be my cardiologist anymore. Too bad, but many doctors I have seen are very sure that there is nothing to learn other than what they learned in school. francie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2002 Report Share Posted January 6, 2002 Hi! You are brilliant!....and this is hillarious! The circular logic involved is apparent to anyone but physicians. I always get another viewpoint when consulting my doctor, and use him very little. Recently, I consulted about testing for heavy metals after having had mercury fillings removed from my teeth (improperly). He didn't think I should be concerned. I got the tests done anyway, and mercury levels were right through the roof. Now I'm chelating. Can't trust doctors opinions! Steve francies2 wrote: > Convince my friend who has had two heart attacks to quit believing > his stupid cardiologist. I have met this guy, talked with him, and > with a cholesterol of 160, is still taking drugs. This is the > cardiologist, not my friend who is doing this. > Other than that..... I have nothing to do. > > > Good for you!!!! I had a very interesting conversation with my > cardiologist who was incensed that I refused to take cholesterol > lowering meds, high blood pressure meds, beta blockers etc after the > heart attack. > > it went something likes this. me " I would prefer to work with you on > natural remedies for high cholesterol. Doesn't high cholesterol mean > my liver may not be working right? " doc: " there are no double > blind, well run scientific studies that show that any so called > natural remedy will afftec cholesterol " me: " my blood pressure is > not high, why do I need blood pressure loweringm meds? " > doc: " because you are a prime candidate for high blood pressure. " > me: " since beta blockers are for a heart that is out of rythm, and > mine is not, why do I need beta blockers? " doc: " because you are a > prime candidate for arythmia. " me: " aren't there natural things to > do to counteract those things I am a prime candidate for? " Studies > show that only the meds I have mentioned will work. " me: " and where > are those studies from? " doc: " they are well documented at medical > centers, med schools and other prestigious facilities. " me: " oh, and > who funds these studies? " doc: " well the phameceutical companies of > course, they are the only ones who have the kind of funding necessary > to do those tests. " me: " oh, I see, and who provides the meds to be > prescribed by you? " doc: " the pharmecuetical companies of course? " > He was acting a little confused on on guard at this point. me: " and > who gives you all the information about these drugs, do you get if > from other doctors, or jornals or what. " doc: " much of the > information is supplied by the companies who supply the meds, some > comes from journals. " me: " do you ever read anything about how the > studies are conducted to see if what you are being told seems to make > sense to you? doc: " I don't have time to do my own research, I trust > the researchers, after all, the FDA must approve all medications. " > me: " haven't there been lots of drugs taken off the market even after > the FDA approves them because the studies were somehow not > complete. " doc: That doesn't happen often in my experience and I > trust the studies. " me: " Oh, I see, the companies that provide the > meds do the studies to prove they do what they say they do. Isn't > that kind of like the fox guarding the hen house? " > > Well that doctor did not want to be my cardiologist anymore. Too > bad, but many doctors I have seen are very sure that there is nothing > to learn other than what they learned in school. > > francie > > > > > Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building health > and well being. > > To learn more about the Gettingwell group, > Subscription and list archives are at: > Gettingwell > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2002 Report Share Posted January 6, 2002 Thank you, but I wasn't feeling brilliant. I was feeling very used and abused by the medical profession at the time of that conversation. However, I must also say that my life was saved that night in the ER as my heart stopped beating. The ER team went to work fast to get the paddles and bring me back. The cardiologist that placed the stent in my heart did an awesomely quick job and I only had 5% damage that has since healed; he had expected extensive damage because of the location of blockage and extended time it took them to get me back with no heart beat. Blessings Francie Gettingwell, fmn <fmn@t...> wrote: > Hi! You are brilliant!....and this is hillarious! The circular logic > involved is apparent to anyone but physicians. > > Good for you!!!! I had a very interesting conversation with my > > cardiologist who was incensed that I refused to take cholesterol > > lowering meds, high blood pressure meds, beta blockers etc after the > > heart attack. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2002 Report Share Posted January 6, 2002 --- Francie, Doctors are not taught healing, they are taught how to treat only the symptoms of disease. They know nothing about natural healing therapy or diet or supplements or the healing they provide within the body. For that we need to see a ND or Chiro and do our own research. God Bless you! We need more people like you. Few people are aware that the drugs they are taking will not eventually heal, but ultimately cause more problems by depleting the vitamins that their bodies have been able to assimilate already! And God knows that we need more than we get in our already depleted food supply. So with the unhealthy combination of drugs and processed foods, where does that leave us? They are simply doing what they are taught with not a care for the outcome! We are just the subjects of an ongoing investigation into the cause of these illnesses in hopes for a cure. You hear of cancer cures everyday in the media. Why don't they ever materialize!! Regards, JoAnn JoAnn Guest joguest Friendsforhealthnaturally http://canceranswer.homestead.com/AIM.html francies2 " <francies2> wrote: > Convince my friend who has had two heart attacks to quit believing > his stupid cardiologist. I have met this guy, talked with him, and > with a cholesterol of 160, is still taking drugs. This is the > cardiologist, not my friend who is doing this. > Other than that..... I have nothing to do. > > > Good for you!!!! I had a very interesting conversation with my > cardiologist who was incensed that I refused to take cholesterol > lowering meds, high blood pressure meds, beta blockers etc after the > heart attack. > > it went something likes this. me " I would prefer to work with you on > natural remedies for high cholesterol. Doesn't high cholesterol mean > my liver may not be working right? " doc: " there are no double > blind, well run scientific studies that show that any so called > natural remedy will afftec cholesterol " me: " my blood pressure is > not high, why do I need blood pressure loweringm meds? " > doc: " because you are a prime candidate for high blood pressure. " > me: " since beta blockers are for a heart that is out of rythm, and > mine is not, why do I need beta blockers? " doc: " because you are a > prime candidate for arythmia. " me: " aren't there natural things to > do to counteract those things I am a prime candidate for? " Studies > show that only the meds I have mentioned will work. " me: " and where > are those studies from? " doc: " they are well documented at medical > centers, med schools and other prestigious facilities. " me: " oh, and > who funds these studies? " doc: " well the phameceutical companies of > course, they are the only ones who have the kind of funding necessary > to do those tests. " me: " oh, I see, and who provides the meds to be > prescribed by you? " doc: " the pharmecuetical companies of course? " > He was acting a little confused on on guard at this point. me: " and > who gives you all the information about these drugs, do you get if > from other doctors, or jornals or what. " doc: " much of the > information is supplied by the companies who supply the meds, some > comes from journals. " me: " do you ever read anything about how the > studies are conducted to see if what you are being told seems to make > sense to you? doc: " I don't have time to do my own research, I trust > the researchers, after all, the FDA must approve all medications. " > me: " haven't there been lots of drugs taken off the market even after > the FDA approves them because the studies were somehow not > complete. " doc: That doesn't happen often in my experience and I > trust the studies. " me: " Oh, I see, the companies that provide the > meds do the studies to prove they do what they say they do. Isn't > that kind of like the fox guarding the hen house? " > > Well that doctor did not want to be my cardiologist anymore. Too > bad, but many doctors I have seen are very sure that there is nothing > to learn other than what they learned in school. > > francie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2002 Report Share Posted January 6, 2002 Francie, > Doctors are not taught healing, they are taught how to treat > only the symptoms of disease. They know nothing about natural healing therapy or diet or supplements or the healing they provide My hope is to plant some seeds. While my former cardiologyst did not like what I had to say, maybe he will hear something later on that will begin to resonate with him because of something someone like me has planted in his subconcious??? After hearing something around 3 times, it is supposed to start causing a curiousity that may cause change in belief or thought processes. Our little rural area has formed agroup of which I am part of as an aromatherapy enthusiast...IMC Integrated Medical Coalition. It's a group of 95 - 100 people in natural healing modalities AND MEDICAL DOCs.. The local hospital realized about two years ago that is was loosing $$$$ because people were seeking healing modalities other than MD or Alopathic. In order to understand what was happening and regain some lost revenue, the hospital sponsored this group. Some of the MDs involved are " getting " it. So as seeds are planted, seedlings procreate and other seedlings crop up. Soon we may have an awesome group of practitioners to choose from that are as completely covered as MDs are now by insurance. Already the MDs in the group who have shown an openness to learning about natural means, have noticed their practices growing....word of mouth in this community can make or break a practitioner. A doctor's PRACTICE......kind of makes you wonder why it is called " practice " ....are they practicing on us till they get it right....Well darn it, lets help them get it right!!! By the way, acupuncture is now offered for pain control INSIDE the hospital (its not well known, but if one asks it's available). Blessings Francie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2002 Report Share Posted January 7, 2002 In a message dated 1/6/02 4:01:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, francies2 writes: << By the way, acupuncture is now offered for pain control INSIDE the hospital (its not well known, but if one asks it's available). Blessings Francie >> Hi Francie, My friend just spent $1000 for acupuncture treatments for pain control for her arthritic knees. It didn't help at all. Perhaps the practitioner was incompetent I don't know but I have the same problem and certainly could not afford such fees for something that didn't work. I would have to personally know people who were successfully treated before I would try acupuncture. Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2002 Report Share Posted January 7, 2002 - <gemno Monday, January 07, 2002 8:35 AM Re: Re: Goals for 2002 > In a message dated 1/6/02 4:01:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, > francies2 writes: > > << By the way, acupuncture is now offered for pain control INSIDE the > hospital (its not well known, but if one asks it's available). > > Blessings > Francie >> > > Hi Francie, > My friend just spent $1000 for acupuncture treatments for pain control > for her arthritic knees. It didn't help at all. Perhaps the practitioner > was incompetent I don't know but I have the same problem and certainly could > not afford such fees for something that didn't work. I would have to > personally know people who were successfully treated before I would try > acupuncture. > > Jean About 15 years ago I was in a minor car accident. I ached all over but had no damage the docs could deal with. I tried a chiropractor & that helped some, but I had what felt like raging arthritis along my spine & neck. At that time I knew someone who was an un-licensed healer. He had no degrees or formal credentials, but was self taught & attended many workshops. Among his skills was acupuncture. I was in pain & could not sleep except sitting in a vibrating relaxing lounge chair. So I went to this fellow & lay down on his livingroom floor while he flicked pins into my back. He knew I was dubious so he told me not to pay him unless I wanted to come back for anther treatment. The acupuncture worked. I went back to him. After 5 treatments, he told me to see if I could l handle things without more treatments. 5 treatments did the trick. Total cost was to give him some veggies from my garden plus $25 cash. Not easy to find people like this as they cannot advertise on the net or in phonebooks. But if one asks around, sometimes there are very interesting people out there. Alobar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2002 Report Share Posted January 7, 2002 My husband and I have experienced a few different accupuncturists. The first experience was with an 80 yr old Chinese man who had been trained from the age of 5 in China. My husband went in with a cane and left never needing one again. That man moved and our second experience was also with a Chinese man who had been trained in modern China and started the older age of early 20s'. He had " incorporated " other things and hooked the needles in my husband's body up to allegator clips and electricity. BAD choice. It was a disaster. I have been treated by one person who did not affect my pain, and one who was a great help in recovering from an auto wreck. If our first experience would have been negative, we may not have tried again, but having a positive one let us know that it DOES work, just need to find someone who has a passion for knowing the right meridians to affect. The alternative in my husbands case was severely debilitating pain meds. I will never again put pharmeceuticals in my body. Blessings Franice--- > > << By the way, acupuncture is now offered for pain control INSIDE the > hospital (its not well known, but if one asks it's available). > > Blessings > Francie >> > > Hi Francie, > My friend just spent $1000 for acupuncture treatments for pain control > for her arthritic knees. It didn't help at all. Perhaps the practitioner > was incompetent I don't know but I have the same problem and certainly could > not afford such fees for something that didn't work. I would have to > personally know people who were successfully treatedbefore I would try > acupuncture. > > Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2002 Report Share Posted January 7, 2002 Evening Alobar, A very interesting message about your pain and the help. Years back, I used to get pain in my feet. A friend of my boss was a chiropractor. He would give me free adjustments when he came by the office. I got to be friends with him and he was very good at his chosen work A few years later I had a back pain. I could barely walk into his office. He did his magic trick. He charged only $ 20.00 in those days. After I left, I felt so much better, I started to go back and give him 20.00 more. >>him. After 5 treatments, he told me to see if I could I handle things >without more treatments. 5 treatments did the trick. Total cost was to >give him some veggies from my garden plus $25 cash. I think you should have given him $ 50.00. However ..... that was a few years back, and you did not say how many and what type vegetables you gave him. That might have evened the score. <grin> In later years, it is a hassle to go to the city for an adjustment. So, I have developed a series of goofy exercises I do in the floor that will virtually remove all my pains. Often as soon as I get up, the pain is gone, or much less intense. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2002 Report Share Posted January 8, 2002 Hi there! If you're into acupuncture for your condition, and figure you'd use frequent treatments, you might consider an electric acupuncture machine. It would work out as quite a savings for you. In our Chinatown, they cost just a little over $300.00 Canadian (much cheaper in U.S.$!!). We used one for a treatment program, and they're fool-proff, with a detection device for confirming the points (self-treatment). No needles, just electricity from little rubber " screws " with conductant gel. So easy! You might consider Chinese herbal therapy for your arthritis, too. Regular acupuncture is about $45.-50. here, expensive, but when someone's suffering they'll do what they need to. You may be able to buy the machine " on-line " , try a search, and maybe you'll get the Vancouver store I visit, and save a bit with U.S. dollars! Good luck! Steve gemno wrote: > In a message dated 1/6/02 4:01:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, > francies2 writes: > > << By the way, acupuncture is now offered for pain control INSIDE the > hospital (its not well known, but if one asks it's available). > > Blessings > Francie >> > > Hi Francie, > My friend just spent $1000 for acupuncture treatments for pain > control > for her arthritic knees. It didn't help at all. Perhaps the > practitioner > was incompetent I don't know but I have the same problem and > certainly could > not afford such fees for something that didn't work. I would have to > personally know people who were successfully treated before I > would try > acupuncture. > > Jean > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2002 Report Share Posted January 9, 2002 WOW. I just saw this msg. Granted, I have gone mostly to student clinics (we have 2 wonderful ones here in the Seattle area) and so the prices are really great. But I know a few LAc's and they charge up to $65 a session and so to spend $1000 that person you knew either went ALL the time or got ripped off. I have had major success both recovering from car accidents (back and neck pain) and also to help with vomitting in pregnancy.... Sindea driving Geoff nuts since 1994... family site: http://sindea5.homestead.com/home.html Business sites: www.sindea.net http://www.homestead.com/sindeadoula/doulahome.html Hi Francie, My friend just spent $1000 for acupuncture treatments for pain control for her arthritic knees. It didn't help at all. Perhaps the practitioner was incompetent I don't know but I have the same problem and certainly could not afford such fees for something that didn't work. I would have to personally know people who were successfully treated before I would try acupuncture. Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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