(unknown)

[Guest guest]

this hoax has been around for years !! And there is no Kimberly Bush-car in the

Homeland Security Dept.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-ups-uniforms.htm

Paula .......... in Michigan

coming soon - Farm Fresh Soaps and Candles.com !!!

 

(remainder of quoted post snipped by moderator)

[Guest guest]

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/upsuniforms.asp

 

On Nov 22, 2006, at 5:13 PM, Vicki P wrote:

 

> Thought this might interest some of you....

> Vicki

>

> UPS

> Uniforms

>

> Government Warning regarding purchase of

> UPS uniforms:

(excessive quoting snipped by moderator)

[Guest guest]

Syndrome differentiation, history, tongue, pulse, the usual?

 

Kind regards,

 

Attilio D'Alberto

Doctor of (Beijing, China)

BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC

Editor

Times

+44 (0) 1189 612512

enquiries

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

<http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php>

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php

 

This message contains privileged and confidential information intended only

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Berkshire, RG40 9DX, UK.

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of AMIT P

09 June 2007 10:21

Chinese Medicine

(unknown)

 

 

 

I SAW A PATIENT WHO HAVE THE TREMENDOUS PAIN IN RIGHT KNEE & ALSO SWELLING,

ONLY RIGHT KNEE, IS IT A ARTHRITIS OR SOMETHING ANOTHER???

WHAT CAN I DO TO RELIVE PATIENTS PAIN & SWELLING????????

 

 

Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with

FareChase.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Amit P,

 

First of all, please don't type all capitals because it's anoying. Thanks.

 

Now, for the knee pain here's what you can do if it is acute:

Have the patient sit on the table instead of laying down

and have him/her flex the knee after every single needle

you insert, use small needles, size 25 or 30, and needle the following:

 

LI11, LU5, PC3, HT3, SI-8, SJ10, SJ11, and opposite of SI-8

(picture the arm as the leg as if you were needling XIYAN)

(but don't needle XIYAN) stay as far away from the knee as possible.

By the time you finish needling the arm, the knee pain should be gone.

 

When you finish this, you may have the patient lay down for comfort, and

needle retention.

 

Now, to drain the bursa on the knees, do this:

Measure 3 cun from HT3 towards HT4 and put a needle there, and

measure 3 cun from SI5 towards SI7 and put a needle there.

You already needled LI11 (drains damp)

 

That should do it. Keep needles for 15 to 30 minutes or for as long

as you can spare a room. Check on your patient frequently and

stimulate all the needles a little. Treat several times like every other day.

Glow

 

AMIT P <amitp1300 wrote:

I SAW A PATIENT WHO HAVE THE TREMENDOUS PAIN IN RIGHT KNEE & ALSO

SWELLING, ONLY RIGHT KNEE, IS IT A ARTHRITIS OR SOMETHING ANOTHER???

WHAT CAN I DO TO RELIVE PATIENTS PAIN & SWELLING????????

 

 

Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with

FareChase.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Great reminder of going in the opposite elbow. Also I like the suggestions for

draining the swelling.

 

Anne

-------------- Original message ----------------------

The Traveler <dumai20baihui

> Amit P,

>

> First of all, please don't type all capitals because it's anoying. Thanks.

>

> Now, for the knee pain here's what you can do if it is acute:

> Have the patient sit on the table instead of laying down

> and have him/her flex the knee after every single needle

> you insert, use small needles, size 25 or 30, and needle the following:

>

> LI11, LU5, PC3, HT3, SI-8, SJ10, SJ11, and opposite of SI-8

> (picture the arm as the leg as if you were needling XIYAN)

> (but don't needle XIYAN) stay as far away from the knee as possible.

> By the time you finish needling the arm, the knee pain should be gone.

>

> When you finish this, you may have the patient lay down for comfort, and

> needle retention.

>

> Now, to drain the bursa on the knees, do this:

> Measure 3 cun from HT3 towards HT4 and put a needle there, and

> measure 3 cun from SI5 towards SI7 and put a needle there.

> You already needled LI11 (drains damp)

>

> That should do it. Keep needles for 15 to 30 minutes or for as long

> as you can spare a room. Check on your patient frequently and

> stimulate all the needles a little. Treat several times like every other

day.

> Glow

>

> AMIT P <amitp1300 wrote:

> I SAW A PATIENT WHO HAVE THE TREMENDOUS PAIN IN RIGHT KNEE & ALSO

> SWELLING, ONLY RIGHT KNEE, IS IT A ARTHRITIS OR SOMETHING ANOTHER???

> WHAT CAN I DO TO RELIVE PATIENTS PAIN & SWELLING????????

>

>

> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with

> FareChase.

>

>

[Guest guest]

a swollen knee may have absolutely nothing to do with a bursa.

 

inflammation can be a traumatic arthritis from an orthopedic injury

to any structure of the joint or it can be a serious medical problem,

infection, vd, lupus, who knows. people have to be careful

presenting cases and also giving advice.

[Guest guest]

Notice three things son:

 

1) The recommendation is for an acute presentation.

2) We're not touching the knee.

3) Herbs are not part of the recommendation.

 

Gloria

 

 

Philip Cusick <pkcusick wrote:

a swollen knee may have absolutely nothing to do with a bursa.

 

inflammation can be a traumatic arthritis from an orthopedic injury

to any structure of the joint or it can be a serious medical problem,

infection, vd, lupus, who knows. people have to be careful

presenting cases and also giving advice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.

Try the Mail Beta.

 

 

[Guest guest]

a medical problem can such as infection or vd can have an acute inflammatory

presentation.

and a traumatic arthrits is an acute condition unrelated to bursitis.

 

so I was just giving a little reminder that our first thought has to be red

flags. so with no info

on someone, first response (especially if the swelling is hot) is to ask for

more info or raise

the possibility of something serious.

and we can't just call any swelling 'a bursitis'

[Guest guest]

Is your contention the word bursitis? and the very questions you're asking

make me wonder if you're an acupuncturist. Do you know where LI11 is?

and HT3, and SJ10? 11? Do you know what the abreviations mean?

 

In Chinese medicine, there's no such thing as infection, traumatic arthritis

or bursitis, nor is there Lupus. Those are Western diagnoses. In TCM (that

means Traditional ) we treat patterns and in the majority of

cases we

resolve pain immediately without drugs, when that's the most pressing case.

 

I'm going to assume that you're not an acupuncturist and explain to you

Chinese medicine point of view:

 

What the colleague said was that her patient had severe pain in the right knee

and that it was moreover swelling.

 

The first thing that goes through one's mind is Bi Syndrome: in this

particular case

it appears to be Damp Painful Obstruction Syndrome (fixed painful Bi) : caused

by

dampness and characterized by pain, soreness, swelling in muscles and joints.

 

Tx. Strategy: Relieve pain, drain damp.

 

Since the patient is not in front of me and I can't inspect the tongue and

check the

pulses (notice I said pulses) In Chinese medicine there are three positions on

each

arm, I didn't suggest any herbs, because those generally treat chronic

conditions;

neither did I recommended any points on the knee.

 

The mere fact that you're sounding off about the Tx. suggestion, is a

tell-tell sign

that you have no idea where the points I suggested are located.

 

Moreover, one of the purposes of this internet group, is to discuss and

exchange

diverse tx. strategies and ideas. The questioner (whoever that may be,) is by

the

most part a trained professional or a professional in training; hence fully

capable

of discernment when it comes to suggestions from colleagues members

of the group.

 

Where do you come off criticizing and characterizing as to " people have to be

careful

presenting cases and also giving advice. " What do you think this site is for?

dating?

 

 

 

 

philcusick <pkcusick wrote:

a medical problem can such as infection or vd can have an acute

inflammatory presentation.

and a traumatic arthrits is an acute condition unrelated to bursitis.

 

so I was just giving a little reminder that our first thought has to be red

flags. so with no info

on someone, first response (especially if the swelling is hot) is to ask for

more info or raise

the possibility of something serious.

and we can't just call any swelling 'a bursitis'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.

Answers - Check it out.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Well the Traveler

Not only Phil is an acupuncturist he was not the one that brought up bursitis as

a dx. If you practice acupuncture and cannot tell if one has a septic knee and

just think of Bi syndrome you should never see a patient unless they have been

medically screened. Phil is a well trained acupuncturist and is also able to be

a medical provider taking care of a patient first, before being an

acupuncturist. You should re read his post and learn about possibilities of such

presentation some of which could cost the patient his knee or worst his life.

The cause of anyone's acute swollen knee must be understood before you start

puncture acu points. While i do not think a patient with pain severe enough to

come from a septic knee would show up in you clinic, if one does you better know

a little more than you Bi theory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

The Traveler

Chinese Medicine

Monday, June 11, 2007 5:20 PM

Re: Re: (unknown)

 

 

Is your contention the word bursitis? and the very questions you're asking

make me wonder if you're an acupuncturist. Do you know where LI11 is?

and HT3, and SJ10? 11? Do you know what the abreviations mean?

 

In Chinese medicine, there's no such thing as infection, traumatic arthritis

or bursitis, nor is there Lupus. Those are Western diagnoses. In TCM (that

means Traditional ) we treat patterns and in the majority of

cases we

resolve pain immediately without drugs, when that's the most pressing case.

 

I'm going to assume that you're not an acupuncturist and explain to you

Chinese medicine point of view:

 

What the colleague said was that her patient had severe pain in the right knee

and that it was moreover swelling.

 

The first thing that goes through one's mind is Bi Syndrome: in this

particular case

it appears to be Damp Painful Obstruction Syndrome (fixed painful Bi) : caused

by

dampness and characterized by pain, soreness, swelling in muscles and joints.

 

Tx. Strategy: Relieve pain, drain damp.

 

Since the patient is not in front of me and I can't inspect the tongue and

check the

pulses (notice I said pulses) In Chinese medicine there are three positions on

each

arm, I didn't suggest any herbs, because those generally treat chronic

conditions;

neither did I recommended any points on the knee.

 

The mere fact that you're sounding off about the Tx. suggestion, is a

tell-tell sign

that you have no idea where the points I suggested are located.

 

Moreover, one of the purposes of this internet group, is to discuss and

exchange

diverse tx. strategies and ideas. The questioner (whoever that may be,) is by

the

most part a trained professional or a professional in training; hence fully

capable

of discernment when it comes to suggestions from colleagues members

of the group.

 

Where do you come off criticizing and characterizing as to " people have to be

careful

presenting cases and also giving advice. " What do you think this site is for?

dating?

 

 

 

 

philcusick <pkcusick wrote:

a medical problem can such as infection or vd can have an acute inflammatory

presentation.

and a traumatic arthrits is an acute condition unrelated to bursitis.

 

so I was just giving a little reminder that our first thought has to be red

flags. so with no info

on someone, first response (especially if the swelling is hot) is to ask for

more info or raise

the possibility of something serious.

and we can't just call any swelling 'a bursitis'

 

Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who

knows.

Answers - Check it out.

 

[Guest guest]

Although I don't know what a vd is I agree with Phil: it is better to be

safe than sorry. Most of my patients have been to a general practitioner

before they come to me; but if they would present with an acute swollen knee

and they have bot been investigated by a GP I would ask them to go see their

doctor first.

 

Tom.

 

----

 

philcusick

12/06/2007 1:28:59

Chinese Medicine

Re: (unknown)

 

a medical problem can such as infection or vd can have an acute inflammatory

presentation.

and a traumatic arthrits is an acute condition unrelated to bursitis.

 

so I was just giving a little reminder that our first thought has to be red

flags. so with no info

on someone, first response (especially if the swelling is hot) is to ask for

more info or raise

the possibility of something serious.

and we can't just call any swelling 'a bursitis'

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Tom

VD is venereal disease

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

Tom Verhaeghe

Chinese Medicine

Monday, June 11, 2007 10:51 PM

Re: Re: (unknown)

 

 

 

Although I don't know what a vd is I agree with Phil: it is better to be

safe than sorry. Most of my patients have been to a general practitioner

before they come to me; but if they would present with an acute swollen knee

and they have bot been investigated by a GP I would ask them to go see their

doctor first.

 

Tom.

 

----

 

philcusick

12/06/2007 1:28:59

Chinese Medicine

Re: (unknown)

 

a medical problem can such as infection or vd can have an acute inflammatory

presentation.

and a traumatic arthrits is an acute condition unrelated to bursitis.

 

so I was just giving a little reminder that our first thought has to be red

flags. so with no info

on someone, first response (especially if the swelling is hot) is to ask for

more info or raise

the possibility of something serious.

and we can't just call any swelling 'a bursitis'

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Before I go on answering this later on (because I don't have time right now)

I musk ask you if you know where LI11, LU5, PC3, HT3, SJ10, SJ11, and for

ashi xue, SI5 are located?

 

Glow

 

Alon Marcus <alonmarcus wrote:

Well the Traveler

Not only Phil is an acupuncturist he was not the one that brought up bursitis as

a dx. If you practice acupuncture and cannot tell if one has a septic knee and

just think of Bi syndrome you should never see a patient unless they have been

medically screened. Phil is a well trained acupuncturist and is also able to be

a medical provider taking care of a patient first, before being an

acupuncturist. You should re read his post and learn about possibilities of such

presentation some of which could cost the patient his knee or worst his life.

The cause of anyone's acute swollen knee must be understood before you start

puncture acu points. While i do not think a patient with pain severe enough to

come from a septic knee would show up in you clinic, if one does you better know

a little more than you Bi theory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

The Traveler

Chinese Medicine

Monday, June 11, 2007 5:20 PM

Re: Re: (unknown)

 

Is your contention the word bursitis? and the very questions you're asking

make me wonder if you're an acupuncturist. Do you know where LI11 is?

and HT3, and SJ10? 11? Do you know what the abreviations mean?

 

In Chinese medicine, there's no such thing as infection, traumatic arthritis

or bursitis, nor is there Lupus. Those are Western diagnoses. In TCM (that means

Traditional ) we treat patterns and in the majority of cases we

resolve pain immediately without drugs, when that's the most pressing case.

 

I'm going to assume that you're not an acupuncturist and explain to you

Chinese medicine point of view:

 

What the colleague said was that her patient had severe pain in the right knee

and that it was moreover swelling.

 

The first thing that goes through one's mind is Bi Syndrome: in this particular

case

it appears to be Damp Painful Obstruction Syndrome (fixed painful Bi) : caused

by

dampness and characterized by pain, soreness, swelling in muscles and joints.

 

Tx. Strategy: Relieve pain, drain damp.

 

Since the patient is not in front of me and I can't inspect the tongue and check

the

pulses (notice I said pulses) In Chinese medicine there are three positions on

each

arm, I didn't suggest any herbs, because those generally treat chronic

conditions;

neither did I recommended any points on the knee.

 

The mere fact that you're sounding off about the Tx. suggestion, is a tell-tell

sign

that you have no idea where the points I suggested are located.

 

Moreover, one of the purposes of this internet group, is to discuss and exchange

diverse tx. strategies and ideas. The questioner (whoever that may be,) is by

the

most part a trained professional or a professional in training; hence fully

capable

of discernment when it comes to suggestions from colleagues members

of the group.

 

Where do you come off criticizing and characterizing as to " people have to be

careful

presenting cases and also giving advice. " What do you think this site is for?

dating?

 

philcusick <pkcusick wrote:

a medical problem can such as infection or vd can have an acute inflammatory

presentation.

and a traumatic arthrits is an acute condition unrelated to bursitis.

 

so I was just giving a little reminder that our first thought has to be red

flags. so with no info

on someone, first response (especially if the swelling is hot) is to ask for

more info or raise

the possibility of something serious.

and we can't just call any swelling 'a bursitis'

 

 

Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.

Answers - Check it out.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Glow, Alon is a skilled practitioner who knows where all those points are.

He just likes saying provocative things like " [...]your bi theory " .

 

Hugo

 

 

The Traveler <dumai20baihui

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, 12 June, 2007 9:52:09 AM

Re: Re: (unknown)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Before I go on answering this later on (because I don't have time

right now)

 

I musk ask you if you know where LI11, LU5, PC3, HT3, SJ10, SJ11, and for

 

ashi xue, SI5 are located?

 

 

 

Glow

 

 

 

Alon Marcus <alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net> wrote:

 

Well the Traveler

 

Not only Phil is an acupuncturist he was not the one that brought up bursitis as

a dx. If you practice acupuncture and cannot tell if one has a septic knee and

just think of Bi syndrome you should never see a patient unless they have been

medically screened. Phil is a well trained acupuncturist and is also able to be

a medical provider taking care of a patient first, before being an

acupuncturist. You should re read his post and learn about possibilities of such

presentation some of which could cost the patient his knee or worst his life.

The cause of anyone's acute swollen knee must be understood before you start

puncture acu points. While i do not think a patient with pain severe enough to

come from a septic knee would show up in you clinic, if one does you better know

a little more than you Bi theory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

 

-

 

The Traveler

 

 

 

Monday, June 11, 2007 5:20 PM

 

Re: Re: (unknown)

 

 

 

Is your contention the word bursitis? and the very questions you're asking

 

make me wonder if you're an acupuncturist. Do you know where LI11 is?

 

and HT3, and SJ10? 11? Do you know what the abreviations mean?

 

 

 

In Chinese medicine, there's no such thing as infection, traumatic arthritis

 

or bursitis, nor is there Lupus. Those are Western diagnoses. In TCM (that means

Traditional ) we treat patterns and in the majority of cases we

 

resolve pain immediately without drugs, when that's the most pressing case.

 

 

 

I'm going to assume that you're not an acupuncturist and explain to you

 

Chinese medicine point of view:

 

 

 

What the colleague said was that her patient had severe pain in the right knee

 

and that it was moreover swelling.

 

 

 

The first thing that goes through one's mind is Bi Syndrome: in this particular

case

 

it appears to be Damp Painful Obstruction Syndrome (fixed painful Bi) : caused

by

 

dampness and characterized by pain, soreness, swelling in muscles and joints.

 

 

 

Tx. Strategy: Relieve pain, drain damp.

 

 

 

Since the patient is not in front of me and I can't inspect the tongue and check

the

 

pulses (notice I said pulses) In Chinese medicine there are three positions on

each

 

arm, I didn't suggest any herbs, because those generally treat chronic

conditions;

 

neither did I recommended any points on the knee.

 

 

 

The mere fact that you're sounding off about the Tx. suggestion, is a tell-tell

sign

 

that you have no idea where the points I suggested are located.

 

 

 

Moreover, one of the purposes of this internet group, is to discuss and exchange

 

diverse tx. strategies and ideas. The questioner (whoever that may be,) is by

the

 

most part a trained professional or a professional in training; hence fully

capable

 

of discernment when it comes to suggestions from colleagues members

 

of the group.

 

 

 

Where do you come off criticizing and characterizing as to " people have to be

careful

 

presenting cases and also giving advice. " What do you think this site is for?

dating?

 

 

 

philcusick <pkcusick (AT) mac (DOT) com> wrote:

 

a medical problem can such as infection or vd can have an acute inflammatory

presentation.

 

and a traumatic arthrits is an acute condition unrelated to bursitis.

 

 

 

so I was just giving a little reminder that our first thought has to be red

flags. so with no info

 

on someone, first response (especially if the swelling is hot) is to ask for

more info or raise

 

the possibility of something serious.

 

and we can't just call any swelling 'a bursitis'

 

 

 

------------ --------- --------- ---

 

Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.

 

Answers - Check it out.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> Where do you come off criticizing and characterizing as to " people have to

be careful

> presenting cases and also giving advice. " What do you think this site is for?

dating?

>

dear Traveler-

 

I can only ask for your forgiveness. I am not sure how I provoked such anger.

I criticized

no one. I simply cautioned. There is no need for name calling or to question my

credentials when what I said was reasonable. Your point suggestion may be just

fine but

that is not the point.

 

The initial post was obviously a cry for help from someone who had no idea what

they

were dealing with. There was no case presentation at all. My teacher taught me

to first be

a doctor. So, again, I was calling attention to possible red flags.

 

and yes, you chose to use the non-TCM diagnosis 'bursitis'. I will reiterate

that this is a

specific diagnosis. Bursitis does not apply to any knee swelling.

 

if someone came to me with chest pain radiating to the arm I would not call it

'xiong bi'

needle P6 and send them home with xue fu zhu yu tang. that's all.

 

as to dating, I'm married but an alternative medicine dating forum might be a

nice project

for someone to start up.

 

let's keep it professional, fun and informative,

respectfully,

Phil

 

Philip Cusick, L.Ac. Acupuncture

Herbal Medicine

Manual Therapy

 

2588 Mission St. @ 22nd

Suite #204

SF, CA 94110

 

www.philcusick.com

[Guest guest]

Phil Cusick:

" [...]as to dating, I'm married but an alternative medicine dating forum might

be a nice project

 

for someone to start up. "

 

Well, ok Phil, I can agree to that...but I still won't budge on 5E'ers dating

TCM'ers.

 

Hugo

 

 

 

 

 

_________

Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it

now.

http://uk.answers./

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello DT,

 

 

 

The diet you have mentioned seems okay. The diet should be vata-reducing

(liberal use of ghee/oil, nourishing, hot temperature diet with wheat, rice,

dal, milk, etc.). But always watch the digestion. She (mother) may be

started with edible gum (Acacia) shallow fried in ghee. For the baby, use

of a herb called pippali may help. Start with very little quantity (e.g.

1-2 pippali seeds (apprx 200 mg) boiled in 30 ml of cow milk once a day). For

the mother you may start Dashamularishtam which has recently been discussed

on this forum (group).

 

 

 

I would like to know about some things. What methods have you tried to make

baby latch? What was the birth weight of the baby, and current weight? How

much the baby is currently consuming within 24 hours? What antibiotics

were given to the baby, for how many days, intravenously? You did mention

about blood sugars, were they high before the delivery? Of course, you can

e-mail me offline on cmthite

 

 

 

The ladies in this group (the doulas) have great knowledge and practical

experience about perinatal issues such as this and I am sure their input

will prove valuable.

 

 

 

Dr. Thite

 

www.ayurvedicrx.com

 

 

On 11/9/07, desert_thought <desert_thought wrote:

>

> Dear Vaidya,

>

> I just wanted to update on my wife's birth experience here in USA.

>

> My wife delivered a baby girl last week and the baby was born about

> 3 weeks prior to its due date. Labor had to be induced as there were

> no contractions after the membranes were ruptured. She wanted to

> have a normal delivery and so did not take any pain medication such

> as Epidural or Anaesthesia. With labor being induced by artificial

> means ( Pitocin is generally used to induce labor) contraction

> pains are very intense and not easily bearable. After tweleve long

> hours of labour her cervix was dilated about 10 cm and she could

> push to get the baby out. My wife had developed high fever during

> labor and as a precaution both the mother and baby were given

> antibiotics. The baby's blood cultures turned out to be negative and

> we could take the baby home after 48 hours of observation at the

> newborn ICU.

>

> Finally my wife's blood sugar levels have come back to normal and

> even the baby's blood sugar levels are fine.

>

> Now we have other issues to look at.

>

> 1)The baby is kind of considered pre-term as it was born at 37.4

> weeks instead of 40 weeks. The baby does not latch on to the breasts

> easily and just falls asleep. The pediatrician says its because of

> the warmth the mother gives to the baby. So unfortunately my

> daughter is fed an infant formula. We have tried several methods to

> try making the baby latch to the mother but were unsuccessful.Also

> her breasts have become heavy and painful. The baby is also a slow

> eater when it comes to eating infant formula. It takes about 30 mins

> to finish 30-35 ml of formula and the pediatrician is a little

> concerned about the slow eating. So would any Vaidya have any

> suggestions on how to get the baby latched for a long time and

> stimulate the mom so that baby can get fed ?

>

> 2) My mother-in-law who came from India is taking care of all the

> kitchen activities and taking care of the new mom. The diet she is

> currently on is kind of soupy ( like diluted toor dal with sauted

> garlic and cummin )and supposedly easily digestible mashed food . My

> wife is not allowed to go out in the air and wearing a scarf all the

> time. She is also been given coriander/cummin/fenugreek/ajwan tea.

> My mother-in-law is not an Ayurvedic expert and has following just

> the " old Indian tradition " . So I'm not sure how effective is the

> diet. She was saying after the 11th day she is going to give a lehya

> ( jam ) called " Saubhagya Shunti " . Its a pretty popular lehya in

> Bangalore. Any comments on the diet ? Any changes required ?

>

> If any Vaidya is willing to take up our case we can take it offline.

> Please provide me your contact information and we can go from there.

>

> Thanks,

> DT

>

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear ONes;

Forgive no response here, we are on 12 hour teaching days here

intensive until next weekend. Perhaps others can share more on your

discussion.

Warm Regards;

Ysha

[Guest guest]

DT:

It is normal for a baby born 3 weeks early to a little weak and too sleepy to

nurse. One of the most important things to do is get a breast pump for the

mother so her breasts will be emptied as often as a full term baby would. She

should pump after every feeding.

The baby should be kept warm between feedings (babies lose calories trying to

maintain 98.6) but stripped down to his diaper during feedings as skin-on-skin

with mother is very stimulating, her shirt should be off too so baby can feel

her skin. When he is tired of nursing, pump mothers' breast and give the milk to

the baby, he should get a couple of ounces every 3 hours. He will mature and

become stronger but the mothers milk supply needs to be protected by pumping her

out at least every 3 hours and giving that to the baby in addition to what he is

getting from the breast. As he matures, he will be stronger and will nurse

better and better but he needs to be offered the breast regularly so he doesn't

forget the nursing technique and only like the bottle.

Vicky York, IBCLC, CPD

Postpartum Care Services

Rogue Valley Area, Oregon

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/vmyork/

http://vmyork.ikarma.com/id269

 

-

cm thite

ayurveda

Sunday, November 11, 2007 10:49 PM

Re: PerinatalAyurveda forum (unknown)

 

 

Hello DT,

 

The diet you have mentioned seems okay. The diet should be vata-reducing

(liberal use of ghee/oil, nourishing, hot temperature diet with wheat, rice,

dal, milk, etc.). But always watch the digestion. She (mother) may be

started with edible gum (Acacia) shallow fried in ghee. For the baby, use

of a herb called pippali may help. Start with very little quantity (e.g.

1-2 pippali seeds (apprx 200 mg) boiled in 30 ml of cow milk once a day). For

the mother you may start Dashamularishtam which has recently been discussed

on this forum (group).

 

I would like to know about some things. What methods have you tried to make

baby latch? What was the birth weight of the baby, and current weight? How

much the baby is currently consuming within 24 hours? What antibiotics

were given to the baby, for how many days, intravenously? You did mention

about blood sugars, were they high before the delivery? Of course, you can

e-mail me offline on cmthite

 

The ladies in this group (the doulas) have great knowledge and practical

experience about perinatal issues such as this and I am sure their input

will prove valuable.

 

Dr. Thite

 

www.ayurvedicrx.com

 

On 11/9/07, desert_thought <desert_thought wrote:

>

> Dear Vaidya,

>

> I just wanted to update on my wife's birth experience here in USA.

>

> My wife delivered a baby girl last week and the baby was born about

> 3 weeks prior to its due date. Labor had to be induced as there were

> no contractions after the membranes were ruptured. She wanted to

> have a normal delivery and so did not take any pain medication such

> as Epidural or Anaesthesia. With labor being induced by artificial

> means ( Pitocin is generally used to induce labor) contraction

> pains are very intense and not easily bearable. After tweleve long

> hours of labour her cervix was dilated about 10 cm and she could

> push to get the baby out. My wife had developed high fever during

> labor and as a precaution both the mother and baby were given

> antibiotics. The baby's blood cultures turned out to be negative and

> we could take the baby home after 48 hours of observation at the

> newborn ICU.

>

> Finally my wife's blood sugar levels have come back to normal and

> even the baby's blood sugar levels are fine.

>

> Now we have other issues to look at.

>

> 1)The baby is kind of considered pre-term as it was born at 37.4

> weeks instead of 40 weeks. The baby does not latch on to the breasts

> easily and just falls asleep. The pediatrician says its because of

> the warmth the mother gives to the baby. So unfortunately my

> daughter is fed an infant formula. We have tried several methods to

> try making the baby latch to the mother but were unsuccessful.Also

> her breasts have become heavy and painful. The baby is also a slow

> eater when it comes to eating infant formula. It takes about 30 mins

> to finish 30-35 ml of formula and the pediatrician is a little

> concerned about the slow eating. So would any Vaidya have any

> suggestions on how to get the baby latched for a long time and

> stimulate the mom so that baby can get fed ?

>

> 2) My mother-in-law who came from India is taking care of all the

> kitchen activities and taking care of the new mom. The diet she is

> currently on is kind of soupy ( like diluted toor dal with sauted

> garlic and cummin )and supposedly easily digestible mashed food . My

> wife is not allowed to go out in the air and wearing a scarf all the

> time. She is also been given coriander/cummin/fenugreek/ajwan tea.

> My mother-in-law is not an Ayurvedic expert and has following just

> the " old Indian tradition " . So I'm not sure how effective is the

> diet. She was saying after the 11th day she is going to give a lehya

> ( jam ) called " Saubhagya Shunti " . Its a pretty popular lehya in

> Bangalore. Any comments on the diet ? Any changes required ?

>

> If any Vaidya is willing to take up our case we can take it offline.

> Please provide me your contact information and we can go from there.

>

> Thanks,

> DT

>

>

>

 

[Guest guest]

Hello, DT:

 

I have not been on this group for some time because of computer and server

issues, as well as very busy with other non-internet things.

 

I am not an ayurvedic, but a very interested supporter. I am a pre and

perinatal birth focused CranioSacral therapist. I assist parents to process the

birth experience with the baby who also needs to process and receive accurate

reflection from the mother. Babies are fully capable of understanding parents --

through touch, voice inflection, and their many highly activated senses.

Sometimes babies are not sleeping, but are " checked out " or between worlds.

Sometimes they are making decisions and just trying to get into this body.

Sometimes being induced means they weren't quite ready or " with the program "

when birth was induced and happened. And, actually, it is just now the time for

baby to be born .... if 40 weeks is the magic number. Perhaps, he might have

been one to go a few more weeks. Vicki's suggestions are very compatible to the

thinking that making life very womb like for him would be helpful.

 

And, I suggest that you talk to baby as you would a child or adult ... and tell

baby how much you want, and love, and welcome him. Tell him you are wishing for

him to breast feed for whatever and all reasons ... and that you need to know

how to help him to do so. If you slow down, breathe, intend to settle your own

nervous system (so you are not responding in the way of being nervous and

scared, etc), I believe you can pick up on the baby's communication. When you

get into that " baby zone " with baby you can and will, especially mother will,

get the " ah-ha " feelings and thoughts. Tell him even though he appears to be

sleeping or tired, you know he is aware of what is going on around him and it's

ok to take his time, but that you need him to eat. And why you want him to have

breast milk... nutrition and bonding ... in your words, from your heart to his.

Apologize from your heart that you had to induce him. Even if for true medical

reasons, it impacts the baby. A heart felt

apology (understanding) from mother and father and acknowledging their own

feelings about it (fear, remorse, anger, etc) and telling baby that he/she does

not have to carry or hold the parents emotional burdens erases or prevents the

life long disconnect. These emotional issues resolved can enhance breast feeding

very quickly ... ALL of this is about healing breaks in mother-baby attachment.

 

Tell him what you want for him now that he is here. WELCOME him. Tell him how

you are ready to care for him and be his parents in this world ... to hold, see,

love, support, and protect him. And where you aren't ready acknowledge within

at least, and come clean with the baby. Babies are sensory sponges and soak up

all the emotions around them. They feel what adults are feeling and need adults

to tell them, " OH, this is MY feeling. Not for you to take on. " Every newborn

baby does their best when they hear and feel these encouragements from their

parents -- when their parents realize how capable they are of working with them

to resolve the issues. We know this of children and adults even in our adult

relationship. Babies, even more so, need this.

 

I hope this makes sense .... coming out of the blue .....

 

Glad I checked in today .... now back to my work. I am editing my documentary

intro on my documentary on babies' experience of birth comparing the experience

of hospital born with home born. One of the BIG things I have been learning

from Ysha is to be FOCUSED ... and that's what I have been trying to do.

 

harmony to all .....

 

janel

 

www.safebabyresolution.blogspot.com

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello Dr.Thite and others who are trying to help me out,

 

I did go through each and every response and will try to make

changes accordingly. Since its rather difficult to reply to every

response I'm going to give an update on the current situation.

Things have changed since my last post. Today is the 11th day after

the baby was born and we did the Punyaha and Namakaran Shastra (

Hindu tradition)today. Today the baby is officially named Shreya

after I called her Shreya three times in her right ear.

 

We have almost reduced the formula amount to zero.

Mother has started using a breast pump and its working well and is

producing about 50ml combined from both sides like every 2-3 hours.

Shreya feels more comfortable drinking breast milk from the bottle.

She is improving albeit slowly when it comes to latching. So far the

best she did was to suck for 10 minutes. Somehow even tickling the

feet, taking the clothes off still does not help in keeing Shreya

awake.

 

One of my colleagues who had been through our problems has referred

us to a lactation consulant. So we are looking forward to meet her.

 

Baby's weight at birth : 6lb 3oz

After 1 week : 6.17 lb

Before delivery the blood sugars were in 170-180 range

Blood sugar has returned to normal : Its like 130 after 1 hr reading

 

I do not remember the names of Antibiotics. But it was given

intravenously.

 

Also is there any natural/ayurvedic alternative to Johnson's baby

soap while bathing the baby ? Besan maybe ?

 

Thanks and regards,

DT

 

ayurveda , " cm thite " <cmthite

wrote:

>

> Hello DT,

>

>

>

> The diet you have mentioned seems okay. The diet should be vata-

reducing

> (liberal use of ghee/oil, nourishing, hot temperature diet with

wheat, rice,

> dal, milk, etc.). But always watch the digestion. She (mother)

may be

> started with edible gum (Acacia) shallow fried in ghee. For the

baby, use

> of a herb called pippali may help. Start with very little

quantity (e.g.

> 1-2 pippali seeds (apprx 200 mg) boiled in 30 ml of cow milk once

a day). For

> the mother you may start Dashamularishtam which has recently been

discussed

> on this forum (group).

>

>

>

> I would like to know about some things. What methods have you

tried to make

> baby latch? What was the birth weight of the baby, and current

weight? How

> much the baby is currently consuming within 24 hours? What

antibiotics

> were given to the baby, for how many days, intravenously? You did

mention

> about blood sugars, were they high before the delivery? Of

course, you can

> e-mail me offline on cmthite

>

>

>

> The ladies in this group (the doulas) have great knowledge and

practical

> experience about perinatal issues such as this and I am sure their

input

> will prove valuable.

>

>

>

> Dr. Thite

>

> www.ayurvedicrx.com

>

>

> On 11/9/07, desert_thought <desert_thought wrote:

> >

> > Dear Vaidya,

> >

> > I just wanted to update on my wife's birth experience here in

USA.

> >

> > My wife delivered a baby girl last week and the baby was born

about

> > 3 weeks prior to its due date. Labor had to be induced as there

were

> > no contractions after the membranes were ruptured. She wanted to

> > have a normal delivery and so did not take any pain medication

such

> > as Epidural or Anaesthesia. With labor being induced by

artificial

> > means ( Pitocin is generally used to induce labor) contraction

> > pains are very intense and not easily bearable. After tweleve

long

> > hours of labour her cervix was dilated about 10 cm and she could

> > push to get the baby out. My wife had developed high fever during

> > labor and as a precaution both the mother and baby were given

> > antibiotics. The baby's blood cultures turned out to be negative

and

> > we could take the baby home after 48 hours of observation at the

> > newborn ICU.

> >

> > Finally my wife's blood sugar levels have come back to normal and

> > even the baby's blood sugar levels are fine.

> >

> > Now we have other issues to look at.

> >

> > 1)The baby is kind of considered pre-term as it was born at 37.4

> > weeks instead of 40 weeks. The baby does not latch on to the

breasts

> > easily and just falls asleep. The pediatrician says its because

of

> > the warmth the mother gives to the baby. So unfortunately my

> > daughter is fed an infant formula. We have tried several methods

to

> > try making the baby latch to the mother but were

unsuccessful.Also

> > her breasts have become heavy and painful. The baby is also a

slow

> > eater when it comes to eating infant formula. It takes about 30

mins

> > to finish 30-35 ml of formula and the pediatrician is a little

> > concerned about the slow eating. So would any Vaidya have any

> > suggestions on how to get the baby latched for a long time and

> > stimulate the mom so that baby can get fed ?

> >

> > 2) My mother-in-law who came from India is taking care of all the

> > kitchen activities and taking care of the new mom. The diet she

is

> > currently on is kind of soupy ( like diluted toor dal with sauted

> > garlic and cummin )and supposedly easily digestible mashed

food . My

> > wife is not allowed to go out in the air and wearing a scarf all

the

> > time. She is also been given coriander/cummin/fenugreek/ajwan

tea.

> > My mother-in-law is not an Ayurvedic expert and has following

just

> > the " old Indian tradition " . So I'm not sure how effective is the

> > diet. She was saying after the 11th day she is going to give a

lehya

> > ( jam ) called " Saubhagya Shunti " . Its a pretty popular lehya in

> > Bangalore. Any comments on the diet ? Any changes required ?

> >

> > If any Vaidya is willing to take up our case we can take it

offline.

> > Please provide me your contact information and we can go from

there.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > DT

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear DT:

You and your wife are doing wonderfully and you give a great report.

When Shreya matures a little over the next 2 weeks she will nurse more strongly,

don't worry. Just be sure and give her the opportunity to nurse each feeding

time before offering the bottle. She will come to love the breast more and more

and she will wake up more. If she gets more bottle feedings than breast

feedings, she will like the bottle more. Keep up the skin-on-skin and pumping

after she nurses and giving her that either by syringe, spoon, SNS, or bottle.

She needs to drink a little under 60ml every 3 hours. The lactation consultant

will be a big help with it all. There is more to be said depending on the LC's

observation of her sucking technique, wt, etc.

ice to feet (not a friendly thing to do) and tickling will only aggravate her

momentarily and she will go back to sleep. Best to strip her clothes and moms

shirt and bra with each feeding, wake her up completely with a diaper change

before feeding. 10 straight minutes of sucking time is actually good. When she

stops sucking, burp her and put her back on the same breast to get the fatty

hindmilk. The next time she falls asleep burp her and put her on the other

breast. Thanks for reporting back to us.

Vicky York, IBCLC, CPD

Postpartum Care Services

Rogue Valley Area, Oregon

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/vmyork/

http://vmyork.ikarma.com/id269

 

-

desert_thought

ayurveda

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 1:38 PM

Re: PerinatalAyurveda forum (unknown)

 

 

Hello Dr.Thite and others who are trying to help me out,

 

I did go through each and every response and will try to make

changes accordingly. Since its rather difficult to reply to every

response I'm going to give an update on the current situation.

Things have changed since my last post. Today is the 11th day after

the baby was born and we did the Punyaha and Namakaran Shastra (

Hindu tradition)today. Today the baby is officially named Shreya

after I called her Shreya three times in her right ear.

 

We have almost reduced the formula amount to zero.

Mother has started using a breast pump and its working well and is

producing about 50ml combined from both sides like every 2-3 hours.

Shreya feels more comfortable drinking breast milk from the bottle.

She is improving albeit slowly when it comes to latching. So far the

best she did was to suck for 10 minutes. Somehow even tickling the

feet, taking the clothes off still does not help in keeing Shreya

awake.

 

One of my colleagues who had been through our problems has referred

us to a lactation consulant. So we are looking forward to meet her.

 

Baby's weight at birth : 6lb 3oz

After 1 week : 6.17 lb

Before delivery the blood sugars were in 170-180 range

Blood sugar has returned to normal : Its like 130 after 1 hr reading

 

I do not remember the names of Antibiotics. But it was given

intravenously.

 

Also is there any natural/ayurvedic alternative to Johnson's baby

soap while bathing the baby ? Besan maybe ?

 

Thanks and regards,

DT

 

ayurveda , " cm thite " <cmthite

wrote:

>

> Hello DT,

>

>

>

> The diet you have mentioned seems okay. The diet should be vata-

reducing

> (liberal use of ghee/oil, nourishing, hot temperature diet with

wheat, rice,

> dal, milk, etc.). But always watch the digestion. She (mother)

may be

> started with edible gum (Acacia) shallow fried in ghee. For the

baby, use

> of a herb called pippali may help. Start with very little

quantity (e.g.

> 1-2 pippali seeds (apprx 200 mg) boiled in 30 ml of cow milk once

a day). For

> the mother you may start Dashamularishtam which has recently been

discussed

> on this forum (group).

>

>

>

> I would like to know about some things. What methods have you

tried to make

> baby latch? What was the birth weight of the baby, and current

weight? How

> much the baby is currently consuming within 24 hours? What

antibiotics

> were given to the baby, for how many days, intravenously? You did

mention

> about blood sugars, were they high before the delivery? Of

course, you can

> e-mail me offline on cmthite

>

>

>

> The ladies in this group (the doulas) have great knowledge and

practical

> experience about perinatal issues such as this and I am sure their

input

> will prove valuable.

>

>

>

> Dr. Thite

>

> www.ayurvedicrx.com

>

>

> On 11/9/07, desert_thought <desert_thought wrote:

> >

> > Dear Vaidya,

> >

> > I just wanted to update on my wife's birth experience here in

USA.

> >

> > My wife delivered a baby girl last week and the baby was born

about

> > 3 weeks prior to its due date. Labor had to be induced as there

were

> > no contractions after the membranes were ruptured. She wanted to

> > have a normal delivery and so did not take any pain medication

such

> > as Epidural or Anaesthesia. With labor being induced by

artificial

> > means ( Pitocin is generally used to induce labor) contraction

> > pains are very intense and not easily bearable. After tweleve

long

> > hours of labour her cervix was dilated about 10 cm and she could

> > push to get the baby out. My wife had developed high fever during

> > labor and as a precaution both the mother and baby were given

> > antibiotics. The baby's blood cultures turned out to be negative

and

> > we could take the baby home after 48 hours of observation at the

> > newborn ICU.

> >

> > Finally my wife's blood sugar levels have come back to normal and

> > even the baby's blood sugar levels are fine.

> >

> > Now we have other issues to look at.

> >

> > 1)The baby is kind of considered pre-term as it was born at 37.4

> > weeks instead of 40 weeks. The baby does not latch on to the

breasts

> > easily and just falls asleep. The pediatrician says its because

of

> > the warmth the mother gives to the baby. So unfortunately my

> > daughter is fed an infant formula. We have tried several methods

to

> > try making the baby latch to the mother but were

unsuccessful.Also

> > her breasts have become heavy and painful. The baby is also a

slow

> > eater when it comes to eating infant formula. It takes about 30

mins

> > to finish 30-35 ml of formula and the pediatrician is a little

> > concerned about the slow eating. So would any Vaidya have any

> > suggestions on how to get the baby latched for a long time and

> > stimulate the mom so that baby can get fed ?

> >

> > 2) My mother-in-law who came from India is taking care of all the

> > kitchen activities and taking care of the new mom. The diet she

is

> > currently on is kind of soupy ( like diluted toor dal with sauted

> > garlic and cummin )and supposedly easily digestible mashed

food . My

> > wife is not allowed to go out in the air and wearing a scarf all

the

> > time. She is also been given coriander/cummin/fenugreek/ajwan

tea.

> > My mother-in-law is not an Ayurvedic expert and has following

just

> > the " old Indian tradition " . So I'm not sure how effective is the

> > diet. She was saying after the 11th day she is going to give a

lehya

> > ( jam ) called " Saubhagya Shunti " . Its a pretty popular lehya in

> > Bangalore. Any comments on the diet ? Any changes required ?

> >

> > If any Vaidya is willing to take up our case we can take it

offline.

> > Please provide me your contact information and we can go from

there.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > DT

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I just learned this from a lactation consultant: a premie's stomach

is the size of a small marble. A full-term baby's stomach is the size

of a large marble. All this talk of ounces and measurements! Let the

baby eat until it is satisfied. After all, that is what our ancestors

relied upon and look how the world's population has flourished!

Warmly,

Adrienne

[Guest guest]

..

>

> Also is there any natural/ayurvedic alternative to Johnson's baby

> soap while bathing the baby ? Besan maybe ?

 

 

Dr Bronner's Aloe/Baby Mild Soap is an excellent soap for baby.

It may also be diluted if you purchase the liquid (50/50).

 

Rebecca

[Guest guest]

Dear DT;

 

When you can, it will be wise to give some extra support for Shreya's

friendly intestinal flora which the antibiotics tend to kill off. I

do not know what the lactation consultants recommend now, nor what is

available to you now, but there are products designed especially for

babies available in the US/natural foods stores. A little of the

powder on a finger or dissolved in warm water is usual administration.

 

Blessings;

Ysha