Guest guest Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 Greetings I am hoping for some guidence on a patient with Dupuytren's contracture. We have been treating the problem much like a carpal tunnel syndrom with acupuncture. It has not progressed but can not seem to get beyond the tightness located in the fourth metacarpal. Patient is generaly dx with liver qi stagnation, liver yin def with a stomach yin def showing red patches at tongue position, red tip, stiff and tremulous Other symptoms are heartburn, some nightsweat, tinnitus, equilibrium problems. Fine and thready pulse. We have used verious liver tonics and tendon tonics, such as variations of Yi Guan Jian with Ji Xue Teng, Sang Ji Sheng, Sang Zhi etc. Any sugestions? It has decreased in size by about two thirds in the whole area after one year. Can we get a better affect? Thanks Rod _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2001 Report Share Posted July 18, 2001 I have had a few cases of this, usually liver pathologies , and they were alcoholics etc . large doses of bai shao , are usefull to soften liver and therfore tendons etc . H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Jason Back about a year ago, I asked the same question and at that time Heiko Lade recommmended large dosages of Bai Shao with an appropriate formula ie Blood movers, liver qi stagnation. I had a young chap in his 30's with obvious Liver Qi Stag and Blood Stasis were we worked on it in both hands with appropriate acupuncture points and after 12 months(once a month acupucture and herbs lasting two weeks) he could put his hands down flat and the tendon was not physically/visually bunched or cantracted. I was using about 25% Bai Shao. > " " < > > > Dupuytren's contracture >Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:07:35 -0000 > >Does anyone have success with this one? > > > > >-Jason > > > > >ChineseMedicineDoc.com > > _______________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Sharon, I have heard that the " stick on " moxa, applied daily along with acupuncture to the area, helps a great deal, though I haven't had great results with it. I will be curious to know if you find something else that works. Linda - Sharon Monday, February 07, 2005 10:32 PM Dupuytren's Contracture Hi All, Has anyone being treating Dupuytren's Contracture? Or do you recognised treating the following? Description Dupuytren's contracture is an abnormal thickening of tough tissue in the palm and fingers that can cause the fingers to curl. It is more common in men than in women and becomes more common as we grow older. -- Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release 3/02/2005 http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, click on this link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Hi Linda, Thanks for your info. Does that mean you are actually treating a person with this contracture? Best wishes, Linda Gruber [lindagruber5] Wednesday, 9 February 2005 6:54 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Dupuytren's Contracture Sharon, I have heard that the " stick on " moxa, applied daily along with acupuncture to the area, helps a great deal, though I haven't had great results with it. I will be curious to know if you find something else that works. Linda - Sharon Monday, February 07, 2005 10:32 PM Dupuytren's Contracture Hi All, Has anyone being treating Dupuytren's Contracture? Or do you recognised treating the following? Description Dupuytren's contracture is an abnormal thickening of tough tissue in the palm and fingers that can cause the fingers to curl. It is more common in men than in women and becomes more common as we grow older. -- Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release 3/02/2005 http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Hi Sharon, I have treated this disorder by needleing deeply into the thickening and moving the needle in and out of the tendon area in a radial arc of a motion, virtually breaking down the thickening . This has improved the condition without much pain. It has not totally eliminated it. Best Wishes Anita -- Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release 2/3/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Thanks Anita, Can you tell me how many treatments did it take and how often relative to results? Best wishes, Anita Binnington [abinnington] Wednesday, 9 February 2005 7:18 PM Chinese Medicine Re: Dupuytren's Contracture Hi Sharon, I have treated this disorder by needleing deeply into the thickening and moving the needle in and out of the tendon area in a radial arc of a motion, virtually breaking down the thickening . This has improved the condition without much pain. It has not totally eliminated it. Best Wishes Anita -- Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release 2/3/2005 http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 : Dupuytren's contracture is an abnormal thickening of tough tissue in the palm and fingers that can cause the fingers to curl. It is more common in men than in women and becomes more common as we grow older. > > To my mind if an essentially local treatment cleared the contracture, this would amount to the baby going out the window and the bathwater remaining to fester in the tub. One would leave the anomaly alone, and work with the remote trigger, which could be in the ipsilateral or contra lateral scapular region, which in turn could be acting up because of somatic sympathy with the hips. In terms of the yin yang mis balance, the yangs hand have given way, so the yin in spasming, and over a period of time tendons have calcified and contracture has arrived. Triggers in 3 vessels are indicated, LI SJ and SI. Running a differential diagnosis on arm vessels: 1. Of the 3 LI has most qi and Blood, and is first candidate. 2. SJ is second because there may be a Dai stricture which has vitiated SJ. 3. SI is least indicated, except that it represents Fire and palm is one of the 5 Hearts. Running an differential diagnosis on paired leg vessels: 1. Of the 3 ST has most qi and Blood, and is first candidate. 2. GB is second because there may be a Dai stricture which has vitiated SJ. 3. UB is least indicated, except that it represents Fire and palm is one of the 5 Hearts, and also that it rules the most qi in the yang back. Finding triggers: On scapula and hip, common ones being SI points on former, and GB on latter. Release points: SI 3 - k 9 - SP 9 for scapular points GB 34 - GB 41 - K 6 for hip points Therapeutic effect: Remarkable, if right points are found and released. Time frame: Depending on age of contracture - 5 sessions on weekly basis would release 50 - 70 %. Rest would take more time, as is the nature of contracture s, in 3 months most, in 6, all gone, or so much that it is no longer noticeable. Prognosis: Very upbeat, because the Root is addressed. Critical aspect: Contracture was healed without being ever worked on. Dr. Holmes www.acu-free.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Fascinating Dr Keikobad, I am reposting the case below which I sent to a Manaka discussion group. I appreciate that this won't follow a TCM protocol. You may enjoy adapting your theory to what I found and what I did, Best wishes, Hi Everyone, I was hoping you could take a look at this case and let me know if you have come across this condition and in particular treatment for the hand symptoms. Has anyone being treating Dupuytren's Contracture? Or do you recognised treating the following? Description Dupuytren's contracture is an abnormal thickening of tough tissue in the palm and fingers that can cause the fingers to curl. It is more common in men than in women and becomes more common as we grow older (40+). Px had surgery to the palm of the hand to uncurl the fingers in May 2004. Surgery removes the thickening that occurs of the tissue. Following surgery there was swelling and pain and the Px had 2 nerve blocks for unresolvable pain syndrome. 2nd caused shock with chest pain and high BP. He has also had surgery for same condition in his left foot, complains only of a little numbness. Any symptomatic treatments suggestions for the hand to help it to now close and make a fist? Worse fingers are SI and Thumb on the left hand, some early cramping (one of the first signs in the right hand. SI 3 area is swollen. The SI finger was tightly cured with the nail impinging on the palm, one surgeon wanted to totally remove the SI finger. I have outlined the symptomatic treatment at the end. Inspection: Tender on right Kd 16,St 25, 26 and 27 little reaction to same on left side. Midline pain sternum to pubis Tenderness under sternum, Ren 12, and lower Ren pts - lower ren pts have been tender since a bout of food poisoning followed 2 days later by pneumonia which landed him in hospital. This all followed about a week after the death of his sister about three years ago 2002. Reactive on Sp4 No reaction on Kd 8 or 9 Tendency to blood stagnation with ganglion which was removed on this same left side on the lower thenar area say, proximal to Lu 10. Also has an enlarged Ulna head at the wrist from when he was accidentally cut with a knife some years ago. Thinks he has GB stones as he gets pain under left rib which eases with massage had this for last 15 years. Little reaction on GB 41 Some tenderness on the left hip he attributes to a skate board accident a couple of years ago. Also sleeps under a fan which may contribute, ie hot sweaty night with cool air from fan. Rotating head to left is limited and painful. No medications Social light drinker Smoker Moves bowels daily Sleep - Awakes between 1-2 to urinate nightly Root Treatment was Yin Wei Rht 20 mins which reduced the tenderness under the ribs and on the lower abdomen, although very deep palpation he was still tender. Ren channel more comfortable. Symptomatic Treatment Have started with sotai on the hand and fingers. Scar treatment on the palm. Blood letting of jing pts to open vessels and move blood. Blood tended to be watery. Ear pt for wrist/hand - used the reactive pt in the vicinity. Direct moxa on SI 3 area to remove swelling. Manaka Hammer on Du 14, GB 20 and 21 at 120 beats which covers both GB, SI and KD - he said during the hammering that he could feel blood moving down his arm Okay so if you made it to the bottom. Do you have any other ideas on the symptomatic treatment of the hand? Dr. Holmes Keikobad [dkaikobad] Thursday, 10 February 2005 3:20 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Dupuytren's Contracture : Dupuytren's contracture is an abnormal thickening of tough tissue in the palm and fingers that can cause the fingers to curl. It is more common in men than in women and becomes more common as we grow older. > > To my mind if an essentially local treatment cleared the contracture, this would amount to the baby going out the window and the bathwater remaining to fester in the tub. One would leave the anomaly alone, and work with the remote trigger, which could be in the ipsilateral or contra lateral scapular region, which in turn could be acting up because of somatic sympathy with the hips. In terms of the yin yang mis balance, the yangs hand have given way, so the yin in spasming, and over a period of time tendons have calcified and contracture has arrived. Triggers in 3 vessels are indicated, LI SJ and SI. Running a differential diagnosis on arm vessels: 1. Of the 3 LI has most qi and Blood, and is first candidate. 2. SJ is second because there may be a Dai stricture which has vitiated SJ. 3. SI is least indicated, except that it represents Fire and palm is one of the 5 Hearts. Running an differential diagnosis on paired leg vessels: 1. Of the 3 ST has most qi and Blood, and is first candidate. 2. GB is second because there may be a Dai stricture which has vitiated SJ. 3. UB is least indicated, except that it represents Fire and palm is one of the 5 Hearts, and also that it rules the most qi in the yang back. Finding triggers: On scapula and hip, common ones being SI points on former, and GB on latter. Release points: SI 3 - k 9 - SP 9 for scapular points GB 34 - GB 41 - K 6 for hip points Therapeutic effect: Remarkable, if right points are found and released. Time frame: Depending on age of contracture - 5 sessions on weekly basis would release 50 - 70 %. Rest would take more time, as is the nature of contracture s, in 3 months most, in 6, all gone, or so much that it is no longer noticeable. Prognosis: Very upbeat, because the Root is addressed. Critical aspect: Contracture was healed without being ever worked on. Dr. Holmes www.acu-free.com http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Hi Sharon, I have given 1 or 2 treatments to people who do not live near me and sent them home with the moxa, as someone else told me, and both did not report great results but I also do not know how consistent they were with the home treatments. Good luck with finding more information. If you know anything about Jin Shin Jyutus, I have heard they have a protocol that treats dupuytrens but I have not had any experience with it myself. If I find any further info I will send it on to you. Be well. Linda - Sharon Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:33 PM Chinese Medicine RE: Dupuytren's Contracture Hi Linda, Thanks for your info. Does that mean you are actually treating a person with this contracture? Best wishes, Linda Gruber [lindagruber5] Wednesday, 9 February 2005 6:54 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Dupuytren's Contracture Sharon, I have heard that the " stick on " moxa, applied daily along with acupuncture to the area, helps a great deal, though I haven't had great results with it. I will be curious to know if you find something else that works. Linda - Sharon Monday, February 07, 2005 10:32 PM Dupuytren's Contracture Hi All, Has anyone being treating Dupuytren's Contracture? Or do you recognised treating the following? Description Dupuytren's contracture is an abnormal thickening of tough tissue in the palm and fingers that can cause the fingers to curl. It is more common in men than in women and becomes more common as we grow older. -- Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release 3/02/2005 http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Thanks Linda, Linda Gruber [lindagruber5] Thursday, 10 February 2005 4:08 PM Chinese Medicine Re: Dupuytren's Contracture Hi Sharon, I have given 1 or 2 treatments to people who do not live near me and sent them home with the moxa, as someone else told me, and both did not report great results but I also do not know how consistent they were with the home treatments. Good luck with finding more information. If you know anything about Jin Shin Jyutus, I have heard they have a protocol that treats dupuytrens but I have not had any experience with it myself. If I find any further info I will send it on to you. Be well. Linda - Sharon Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:33 PM Chinese Medicine RE: Dupuytren's Contracture Hi Linda, Thanks for your info. Does that mean you are actually treating a person with this contracture? Best wishes, Linda Gruber [lindagruber5] Wednesday, 9 February 2005 6:54 AM Chinese Medicine Re: Dupuytren's Contracture Sharon, I have heard that the " stick on " moxa, applied daily along with acupuncture to the area, helps a great deal, though I haven't had great results with it. I will be curious to know if you find something else that works. Linda - Sharon Monday, February 07, 2005 10:32 PM Dupuytren's Contracture Hi All, Has anyone being treating Dupuytren's Contracture? Or do you recognised treating the following? Description Dupuytren's contracture is an abnormal thickening of tough tissue in the palm and fingers that can cause the fingers to curl. It is more common in men than in women and becomes more common as we grow older. -- Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release 3/02/2005 http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group requires prior permission from the author. If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 i haven't treated this myself but anecdotal reports are that high dose vitamin E (d-alpha tocopherol), up to 2000 IU daily, can be helpful to stabilize or moderate the condition best... todd __________ > Posted by: " eric isen " emisen emisen > I have a friend with Depuytens contracture, a condition in which scar > tissue grows on muscles of the hand, causing the hand to close > involuntarily. > > He has tried both Allopathy and Ayurveda extensively with no > improvement. He just returned from 3 weeks of Panchakarma in New > Delhi. Still no improvement. <snip> Caldecott todd www.toddcaldecott.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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