Retinal vein occlusion - ayurveda viewpoint ?

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

 

having suffered recently a retinal vein occlusion, I got interested in

the traditional medicines viewpoints. According to TCM, retinal

thrombosis is due to an imbalance in the liver, the liver being the

solid organ associated to the Wood element, responsible for vein blood

circulation and eyesight. The imbalance may be due to a deficiency of

Yang as there is a deficiency of blood circulation.

 

I would now like to know what is the ayurvedic viewpoint on retinal

vein occlusion, and what are the advised diets. What are the causes of

such a disease ? Do they relate to the liver as in TCM ?

 

Many thanks for your answer

Regards

Thierry

[Guest guest]

How much Canola oil do you consume? Either directly or in commercial

products? This and other chemical additives cause macular eye damage so

could well be related

 

Jane

 

" thierry_x_c " <thierry_x_c

>

> having suffered recently a retinal vein occlusion, I got interested in

> the traditional medicines viewpoints.

[Guest guest]

Jane,

I am not sure I consume any canola oil. The only vegetable oil I

consume directly is olive oil.

 

Thierry

_______________

> How much Canola oil do you consume? Either directly or in commercial

> products? This and other chemical additives cause macular eye damage .

so could well be related

[Guest guest]

hi thierry

 

retinal vein occlusion is related to pitta, and hence the liver

overall, the basic energetics behind the therapies in TCM and

Ayurveda are very similar

 

stepping back from it a little however, we also have to ask what

conditions/diseases are concurrent with this, e.g. insulin

resistance, diabetes, atherosclerosis...

 

specific nutrient deficiencies can also be at play here, such as EFAs

Caldecott, Dip. Cl.H, RH(AHG)

Ayurvedic practitioner, Medical Herbalist

203 - 1750 East 10th Ave

Vancouver, BC V5N 5K4 CANADA

web: http//:www.toddcaldecott.com

email: todd

tel: (1)778.896.8894

fax: (1)866.703.2792

 

____________

having suffered recently a retinal vein occlusion, I got interested in

the traditional medicines viewpoints.

[Guest guest]

hi

 

Allopaths specialized in cardiology, endocrinology, hematology I

have consulted did not find any evidence of serious troubles in

these areas.

 

Anyway, I would like to understand more in depth how does Ayurveda

explain the humoral imbalance in the liver that led to this retinal

thrombosis. I have a pitta constitution, being of average build and

height, hands and feet are warm, etc. In the TCM I would be

classified under a Wood constitution on the YIN side, having poor

eyesight, being subject to scoliosis when I was a teenager, and

having a tendency to suppressed anger. How does this relate to

Pitta ?

 

I am studying the link between traditional medicines and astrology,

particularly hindu astrology. This is a serious study, an inter-

disciplinary one that requires a lot of knowledge in both fields

but nowadays it is much easier to get information about chinese

medicine than ayurveda, particularly about disease patterns and

correlations with constitutional types.

 

Many thanks for your help on this topic.

 

Thierry

[Guest guest]

Good! It was just a thought to consider ...... here in Australia it is in

nearly every commercial product ........

 

Best,

 

Jane

 

_________________________________

I am not sure I consume any canola oil. The only vegetable oil I

consume directly is olive oil.

[Guest guest]

Hi Thierry

 

I wish to put forth Ayurvedic views about Retinal vein occlusion.

To know Pathology behind arterial or veinous occlusion one should know the

structural physiology of Arteries and Veins. The arteries and veins are

continuously contracting and expanding rhythemically. This is due to elasticity

of the structure.When this elasticity gets affected then there will be vascular

diseases. In the old age, elasticity of the vessels gradually wanes away and

vesseles becomes stiff. Modern science terms it as atherosclerosis. This

pathology hampers blood flow. On the other hand when the vesseles gets occluded

due to depositions on inner walls of the vesseles, blood flow diminishes.

 

Susharuta states 'Upachaya' i.e. way of nutrition of vessels.

Medasam sneham aadaya II That means the vessles gets there nutrition from the

Meda dhatu. Hence excessive nutrition of vessles causes their occlusion and

hyper cholesterolaemia is directly related with excessive nutrition of the

vessles.

 

In spite of above pathology other diseases such as Diabetes plays a major role.

 

In the view of Ayurveda, Eyes are the site of Teja mahabhuta and get easily

affected by Kaffa dosha.

Vaidya Upadhye

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

having suffered recently a retinal vein occlusion, I got interested in

the traditional medicines viewpoints.

[Guest guest]

Dear Vaidya Upadhye

 

For those of us who are not well acquainted with the Ayurvedic terminology

is it possible for you to described this in any other way please especially

your last sentence .....

 

Thanks very much,

 

Best

 

Jane

>

> In the view of Ayurveda, Eyes are the site of Teja mahabhuta and get

> easily affected by Kaffa dosha.

> Vaidya Upadhye

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> having suffered recently a retinal vein occlusion, I got interested in

[Guest guest]

> having suffered recently a retinal vein occlusion, I got

interested in

> the traditional medicines viewpoints.

 

hi friends ,

the group of vascular disorder are disribed by achrya charak in

chikitsa adhyaay 29-vatarakta chikitsa addgyaya.reyanoud

disease,systemic lupus erethomatus,avascular necrosis ....all are

counted in 'vatarakta'.

 

panchkarma treatment should recomnded.virechan and basti course

should be advise.

 

regards

 

dr piyush shah

m.d(ayu.)

[Guest guest]

Hi Thierry,

 

there very likely are indications underlying metabolic dysfunction, but you may

need to

step back and not look for overt pathologies, but more generalized

signs/symptoms that

would suggest the origin of the condition

 

the magnifying glass is probably being held too close by the allopaths

 

any indication of truncal abdominal weight, and a waist to hip ratio greater

than 0.8, i.e.

the waist being larger than the hips, tells us quite a bit about you underlying

metabolic

health

 

please refer to: http://www.toddcaldecott.com/health_msx.html

 

 

> Anyway, I would like to understand more in depth how does Ayurveda

> explain the humoral imbalance in the liver that led to this retinal

> thrombosis. I have a pitta constitution, being of average build and

> height, hands and feet are warm, etc. In the TCM I would be

> classified under a Wood constitution on the YIN side, having poor

> eyesight, being subject to scoliosis when I was a teenager, and

> having a tendency to suppressed anger. How does this relate to

> Pitta ?

 

first off, we need to separate the difference between constitution and disease

 

just knowing your constitution won't explain the disease and it won't suggest an

effective

line of treatment, although it will help to modify the treatment so that it

suits you and

your particular individual needs

 

in any tissue, kapha functions to supply nutrition via the arteries, vata

regulates the flow

of nutrients and wastes in and out of the interstitium, and pitta acts to drains

the tissues

via the venules and the veins - this is the same for everyone

 

in retinal vein occlusion, we have a blockage of the veins, which in many

respects is no

difference when we have blockage of other veins in the body, such as the legs,

sinus, or

hemorrhoidal tissues

 

but what causes this blockage? well, if we consider the role of the liver, its

function is to drain

the wastes from the body, and if you can think of it in an almost mechanistic

way, when

the liver is backed up, it causes a back-up elsewhere in the body of all the

tissues that

feed into it

 

in the same way, the functions of the liver " guide " the process of waste

metabolism and

transport in the body, particularly in organs associated with the liver, such as

the eyes,

blood and skin

 

thus when the liver functions poorly, the status of " liver functions " elsewhere

become

similarly impaired

 

as for your type as per ayurveda and TCM i cannot tell you without seeing you

 

fwiw, yin correlates with vata-kapha, and yang with pitta

a deficiency of yin causes yang to get out of balance, i.e. a vata-pitta type

disorder, or

what is called " deficiency heat " syndrome, which possibly sounds like what you

have

 

if this were the case, i would use a combination of cooling, nourishing herbs

and foods,

along with those that reduce heat and inflammation

 

in particular, herbs and food rich in flavonoids such as amalaki (Phyllanthus

emblica) are

an excellent choice because they help to restore tone to the tissues and

reduce/prevent

oxidative damage; besides amalaki, other herbs are good too such as triphala,

bhumyamalaki, turmeric, bilberry, tienchi ginseng, ginkgo, horsechestnut,

rosehips, not to

mention foods such as leafy greens and onions, as well as fruits such as

blueberries,

raspberries, melon, guava, and grapefruit

 

i would also use herbs that are directly stimulating to the liver to reduce

pitta including

gentian, barberry, yellowdock, stone root and similar - many of these are also

rich in

anoixidant compounds to help tone the tissues and dispel venous blockage

 

the nourishing herbs include those such as licorice, lycium fruit, shatavari,

prepared

rehmannia root and dang gui

 

topically, we might try something as simple as a triphala ghritam or rasanjana,

but i am

sure some other vaidyas might suggest something a little more sophisticated

 

i would also probably use an orthomolecular approach, with high doses of

vitamins A, B,

C, D and E, along with a chelated multi and esp. a correction of EFA ratios

through a

dietary reduction of n-6 PUFAs and a corresponding increase in n-3s

 

additional assistance might also be found with generalized antioxidants such as

NAC and

CoQ10

 

 

>

> I am studying the link between traditional medicines and astrology,

> particularly hindu astrology. This is a serious study, an inter-

> disciplinary one that requires a lot of knowledge in both fields

> but nowadays it is much easier to get information about chinese

> medicine than ayurveda, particularly about disease patterns and

> correlations with constitutional types.

 

i would focus on the things you can do that are practical and seem helpful

finding the solution by astrology is a speculative process, but don't let it

stop you from

taking some sensible action now - your eyesight depends on it!

 

best...

Caldecott, Dip. Cl.H, RH(AHG)

Ayurvedic practitioner, Medical Herbalist

203 - 1750 East 10th Ave

Vancouver, BC V5N 5K4 CANADA

web: http//:www.toddcaldecott.com

email: todd

tel: (1)778.896.8894

fax: (1)866.703.2792

[Guest guest]

Hi

 

thank you very much for your very clear explanations to all my

questions.

 

I had a quick look at your syndrom X article, but I will study it

more in details soon to see what may be related to my personal case.

All I can say is that I have learned, following blood and hemostasis

analysis, that I suffer from coagulation factor II (prothrombase)

genetic dysfunction, but the doctors told me it was the case of

about 3% of the population and hence was not enough to explain the

vascular accident I have suffered from. Another element is that I

stopped suddenly any sport and exercise 3 months before the retinal

occlusion following a knee cruciate ligament injury, while I was

doing lot of sport before.

 

Thanks for the indications about appropriate herbs and diet, an

homeopath suggested me to eat onions and fish, which is among

the things you have listed, directly or indirectly (EFA for fishes

like salmon).

 

Could you please explain me how the liver relates to the skin in the

auyurvedic view ? For the TCM, the skin is related to the lungs.

 

Of course I do not consider astrological criteria as a substitute

for medical treatments and so far, I have consulted so many

practitioners for this thrombosis that I have indeed chosen to

concentrate on a practical solution and let the " speculative "

techniques aside.

Nevertheless, as the time factor is of a great importance in all the

traditional medicines (some ailments are more likely to appear in

certain seasons, and some treatments are more efficient at some time

than at others) and as astrology deals extensively with the time

factor, I think it can be of a certain help in the traditional

medicine matter.

 

But let us focus on ayurveda you are right !!!

 

Thanks again for your kind help,

Best regards

Thierry

[Guest guest]

Dear Vd Ajeya

The reference quoted by you is regarding the formation of Snaayu ( ?tendon /

fibrous band / ligament)

The actual sentence is ' Medasah sneham aadaaya sira snaayutvam apnuyat'.

Is it good to use improper references of Ayurveda, when most of this group does

not know what real Ayurveda is?

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumdar

M.D.Ayurveda-Medicine(Mumbai-India)

Vice-President, BAMS Graduates Association, Maharashtra-India

< dahpc >

< www.indiamart.com/dhanwantariayurvedic >

___________________________

 

Susharuta states 'Upachaya' i.e. way of nutrition of vessels.

Medasam sneham aadaya II That means the vessles gets there nutrition from the

Meda dhatu. Hence excessive nutrition of vessles causes their occlusion and

hyper cholesterolaemia is directly related with excessive nutrition of the

vessles.

[Guest guest]

Jane,

 

I think it means that amongst the five primal elements (maha bhutas),

the one that is associated to the sense of sight is the Fire (Tejas).

And for some reason, the Fire element gets easily affected by

Kapha...

_____

is it possible for you to described this in any other way please

especially your last sentence .....

[Guest guest]

Dear Thierry

You perfectly discribed relation between Teja mahabhuta and Eye.

I will add some words.

According to Hindu mythology every substance in this world is made up

of Five principles. Every principles has its own subject of knowledge.

The 'Rupa' means visibility is the subject of knowledge of Teja

mahabhuta and the Indriya i.e. mode of perception of knowledge is Eyes.

No body can see with out Eyes. Hence Eyes are the Indriyas of Teja

Mhabhuta and could get easily affected by Kaffa.

To protect Eyes from affection of Kaffa dosha a drop of pure Honey to

be administered at bed time is advocated in Ayurveda.

Vaidya Upadhye

_______________________

I think it means that amongst the five primal elements (maha bhutas),

the one that is associated to the sense of sight is the Fire (Tejas).

And for some reason, the Fire element gets easily affected by

Kapha...

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr Muzumdar

There are certain differences regarding term 'Sira'. Some of us are using this

term for Vessels.

Do you think I am misguiding common man?

If so then what intention should I have?

Your some sentences are not only questioning my integrity but also very

insulting ?

If you have some different view regarding text in Shushruta then you should have

explain them. Doctors never tally but they should respect there own faculty

members. I fill very sorry to write such a things in open forum. I will welcome

your different view as a chance to learn something new if you are going to put

them in this forum.

On the other hand if you wish to discuss in scientific terminology then please

write me on webmail.astroayurvedalogy.com

 

Vaidya Upadhye

_____________________

 

The reference quoted by you is regarding the formation of Snaayu ( ?tendon /

fibrous band / ligament)

The actual sentence is ' Medasah sneham aadaaya sira snaayutvam apnuyat'.

Is it good to use improper references of Ayurveda, when most of this group does

not know what real Ayurveda is?

[Guest guest]

Dear Vd. Ajeya,

The reference of sira and meda is related to the formation / genesis of snaayu.

Sira takes up the sneha from meda dhatu and converts into Snaayu - That is the

meaning of the full sentence I had quoted, which is the total quote of your half

sentence - Medasah sneham aadaya. You have quoted this reference to denote

pathogenesis of arteriosclerosis / atherosclerosis / venous /arterial occlusion.

The above reference nowhere defines the pathology you are trying to co-relate

with. The appropriate term for this pathology could be Dhamani-kaathinya, a type

of Kaphaja Nanatmaja vikaar from Charak Samhita.

We may not tally on the medicinal regime, but explation of sutras should be same

as intended in the Samhitas, there can not be two different meanings of one

sutra.

There are many aberrations of Ayurvedic interpretations that I come across on

this forum, maybe because they are not initiated properly in Ayurveda or are

laypersons. But at least vaidyas should take abundant precaution while working

on this forum. Backing a mistake of my own faculty member would tantamount to

degrading Ayurveda. It would be better to be careful so that the integrity of

Ayurveda is not compromised.

With respect for all and uncompromising love for Ayurveda.

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumdar

Ayurveda Consultant

M.D.Ayurveda-Medicine (Mumbai-India)

Vice-President, BAMS Graduates Association, Maharashtra(India)

< dahpc >

< www.indiamart.com/dhanwantariayurvedic >

_____________________

There are certain differences regarding term 'Sira'. Some of us are using this

term for Vessels.

Do you think I am misguiding common man?

[Guest guest]

To Dear Vaidya Muzumdar

I respect your views though I disaggree with the same for the following reasons

 

The reference of sira and meda is reof lated to the formation / genesis snaayu.

Sira takes up the sneha from meda dhatu and converts into Snaayu

 

Convertion of Sira into Snayu is a wrong inference of the text in Sushruta.

Sharir section 4, 29/30

The second line is

Siraha tu mruduhu pakaha Snayunam cha tataha Kharaha II

That means development of Sira is due to Mrudu paka [ Tender heating]and that of

Snayu is due to Khara paka[More heating] The development of both are separate

events and for these events Sneha from Meda dhatu is required.

 

Dalhana has given following explanation

Sira snayutvam Apnuyat Iti Siraha Snayuhu cha [ Sira and Snayu] Vayuhu Kuryat

Ittyarthaha II

That means Vata dosha is responsible for the development of Sira and Snayu.

 

I think this explaination as given by Shushruta and Dalhana who is the famous in

giving expert's comments should have cleared views of everybody.

 

I am going to stop further discussion on this subject.

 

The relation of genesis of Sira and Vascular diseases is the another subject of

discussion. Which is I am going to keep open for every one particulary for

Ayurvedic Faculty friends.

I appreciate your uncompromising love for Ayurveda. In my practice of 23 years I

came accross hundreds of Vaidyas to whom I personally know and who have same

love for Ayurveda as you have.

This uncompromising faith for Ayurveda is essential. Let us come together and do

some constructive work. Which will be beneficial for human being and for

Ayurveda.

Vaidya Upadhye

 

 

_______

The reference of sira and meda is reof lated to the formation / genesis snaayu.

Sira takes up the sneha from meda dhatu and converts into Snaayu - That is the

meaning of the full sentence I had quoted, which is the total quote of your half

sentence - Medasah sneham aadaya.

[Guest guest]

Dear brother,

What I negated was your reference of the sira-snayu sutra for purpose of CAD; ie

accumulation of lipids inside the coronary arteries, as that reference was not

appropriately applicable to the matter of discussion.

We better not discuss the technical details of this aspect here as there are

very few people who genuinely want to know real Ayurveda.

You may contact me on

Hospital Tel No +91-250-2505721/85

Mobile : 9422475850.

________________________

The reference of sira and meda is reof lated to the formation / genesis

snaayu. Sira takes up the sneha from meda dhatu and converts into Snaayu