Woman claims lead poisoning from Maharishi herbal product

[Guest guest]

> ayurveda , " Shirish Bhate "

> <shirishbhate wrote:

> >

> > Please check the file Bhasma

> > available at

> >

> > http://health.ayurveda

> articles/Bhasm

> > a/

> >

> > and also some of its references. Immune boosting properties of cow

> > urine medicines is mainly due to gold and other metals inside it,

> > perhaps in same bio-availablity as bhasmas.

> >

 

 

cow urine has gold in it? i think you may have solved india's

economic woes!

 

all joking aside, gold isn't inherently toxic or at dispute here

 

compare gold toxicity:

http://patients.uptodate.com/image.asp?file=rheumpix/toxicity.htm

 

to lead toxicity:

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/lead/pbcover_page2.html

 

to quote the above:

 

" The incomplete development of the blood-brain barrier in fetuses and

in very young children (up to 36 months of age) increases the risk of

lead's entry into the developing nervous system, which can result in

prolonged or permanent neurobehavioral disorders. Children’s renal,

endocrine, and hematological systems may also be adversely affected

by lead exposure. "

 

if garbhapal ras somehow didn't raise serum lead levels then what

worry would we have

however, the evidence here suggests that it does, and so purified or

not, dramatically increased serum lead levels cannot be dismissed

 

it takes a lot of lead to kill somehow, much more than in this case

however, just because it doesn't actually _kill_ someone doesn't mean

it doesn't do any harm!!

 

Caldecott

todd

www.toddcaldecott.com

[Guest guest]

I think it is critical to first determine who made the garbhapal ras

product and if it was properly manufactured and administered.

Then check and see if MAPI makes it, if they have it in their domestic

Indian product catalog at all. If so, I believe they are getting it

from another manufacturer, as far as I know they do not themselves

manufacture bhasmas based on gems and heavy metals.

[Guest guest]

I would not argue that lead or mercury are toxic.

We are all saying that vaccines are not safe due to their mercury content (not

to mention other nauseating contents).

So how can we aregue that mercury is ok in ayurvedic formulas?

What we need to know is whether the metals are capable of being transformed

into something that the body can use.

If so how and who makes these drugs properly.

I think it can be assumed that bhasma must be safe if made properly because

they are so widely used in India.

If they were so dangerous they we should have many cases of poisoning.

So how can we find out which brands might be safe?

[Guest guest]

in the link you sent many of the authors that were used for reference were

saying that siddha medicine has come as a hybriayurveda with its influence from

arabs.

In that article it also stated that pulse reading originates in islam.

How can we take such articles seriously.

Islam itself is a new faith. Certainly not older than ayurveda.

[Guest guest]

Impcops is the leading Tamilnadu pharmacy is 60 years

old and they have marketed several tonnes of nine

metals bhasmas,gold,silver copper ,zinc ,lead,and many

mercuruial preparations.

most siddha practioners used them and saved many

patients.

I tell you one story

one 82 year old man got severe sciatica suddenly. his

wife telling me ,how life is horrible without

walking.I gave him cinnabar ,in tamil linga sindoora

a mercurrial compound , the third day he walked well

and lived another two years without that complaint.

my master use to give arsenic to lung cancer patients

who have a lot of flum suffocating , immediately they

spit flum and breathe better.

you can save a lot of life at emergent situations by

using toxic medicine.

say if heart rate is going down, pulse is getting

weake, body temparature is lowering,near death

situations just give linga sidura , immediately heart

pick up ,temparature raise

mercury has electrical properties, you doesnot require

a pace maker.simply by linga sindura you can pick

upheart.

A lot of benificial effects are in useing metals .

No physician wishes to injure his patient.

to save life we use metals .

Ayurveda and siddha are similar sasthra,

All two system starts with mercury. mercury lord

siva's semen and sulphour parvathis rajas.

Ayurvedics too use metals

and it also in their texts.

see kottakkal price list of medicines? don't they

have metalic medicines?

what is Thribang bhasma?

Indians used 90% lead coated utencils untill the

introduction of stainless steel.

In those days people also lived 90 years and very

little diabetease .50 years back stainless steel came,

now a lot of diabetease .

I feel it may be due to the non use of lead utencils;

as stainless steel occupied all kitchen.

 

R.Vidhyasagar.

[Guest guest]

The question should rather be; if they are so dangerous and poisoning

people why are they allowed on the market at all? And what

toxicological tests are mandatory in India, if any? Has the Govt of

India (Ayush) established modern safety parameters for these products

or are they allowed simply because of folklore?

[Guest guest]

> > I think it can be assumed that bhasma must be safe if made

> properly because they are so widely used in India.

 

 

that is a very dangerous assumption

just because something is widely used doesn't mean its safe

 

sometimes it reflects a kind of collective delusion, that in origin

is usually promulgated by relatively few people that use a number of

tactics to gain widespread acceptance

 

vaccines, automobiles, plastic food storage, pesticides, statins,

SSRIs etc. - all these things are widely used but none are safe

 

just because something is " traditional " also doesn't make it safe,

especially when the kind of toxicity we are talking about, such as

heavy metal toxicity, can be very difficult to discern or

differentiate from other pathologies

 

for e.g. the symptoms of even mild mercury toxicity, including renal

and digestive impairment, or neurological problems, could be easily

confused with other pathologies, without anyone ever knowing the

cause unless one conducted the proper tests (which didn't exist prior

to modern medicine)

 

the widespread use of bhasmas is almost certainly very recent in

Indian history - your average villager in India over the last several

thousand years would have relied upon simple, indigenous folk system

of healing, with an emphasis on plants and foods

 

this can also be inferred from the number of texts written on the

subject of alchemical preparations, such as the Rasatarangini, which

occur late in Indian history

 

Caldecott

todd

www.toddcaldecott.com

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> > How can we take such articles seriously.

> > Islam itself is a new faith. Certainly not older than ayurveda.

 

 

Did you read the entire article? It attempts to be a scholarly

discussion which raises several views and analyzes them. Perhaps you

are confusing one view that is raised and discussed for the

conclusions of the essayist. With regard to nadi pariksha being

brought by the Arabs, the author states:

 

" The 'nadi vaidhyam' – diagnosis by pulse beats is no doubt part of

Siddha system, but it was practiced even during Sangam period. "

 

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/essays/siddhas.asp

 

The Sangam period by conservative estimate is pre-Islamic, somewhere

between 500 BCE - 500 CE - so I wonder what you are arguing with?

 

As for the practice of alchemy, the author makes the claim that it is

relatively recent, that the siddhas weren't always associated with

alchemical practices:

 

" Though the Siddhas and Siddha medical system have been conceived and

considered as one, their exact relation is doubted by some scholars

(10). Some scholars accuse Aryans for meddling with Siddha medicine

and circulating it as Ayurvedic system(11). The confusion has been

evidently due to the fact that there has been deviation in the

methodology of Siddha medical system from Tirumular to latter-day

Siddhar of 17th to 20th century period after the pursuit of alchemy.

The traditional Siddhas only advocated the longevity of life through

breath control and yoga, but, the Siddhas of latter period, evidently

from 17th century started attempting with kaya kalpam / elixir, and

so on. "

 

I have also cited Venkataraman's book a " History of the Tamil Siddha

Cult " as another source that claims the practice of alchemy is non-

indigenous to the siddha tradition. I know there are converse

opinions to this, and I appreciate that. All I can do is study, and

read the evidence. Unfortunately history isn't always so straight-

forward as we all want it to be - there are lots of interesting turns

and twists along the way. I like to keep an open mind about these

things and not simply accept the orthodox view. The matter at hand

is whether toxic metals are safe and if there is a long history of

their usage in India, and there is significant evidence that neither

is true.

Caldecott

todd

www.toddcaldecott.com

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I have searched through charaka and cannot find mention of bhasma at all.

I also want to clear many doubts about origin of medicine and feel that some

part of Siddha may have been altered by tantraic practitioners.

For example using bones of humans and animals (peranda bhasma) does not seem

particularily appropriate for medicine. It sounds like left handed tantra.

I am currently reading Tirumantiram and have not completed it but have not

come to any part where medicines are mentioned.

I have read about Bhoganathars influence in China and so wondered if heavy

metals are used in Chinese medicine at all.

 

________________________

Did you read the entire article? It attempts to be a scholarly

discussion which raises several views and analyzes them. Perhaps you

are confusing one view that is raised and discussed for the

conclusions of the essayist.

[Guest guest]

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[Guest guest]

1. Charaka does mention Mandura bhasma, prepared from iron (which is

an essential micromineral). It is tricky though, because Charaka has

been added to over the millennia. It would take a very knowledgeable

and objective Sanskrit scholar to discern what is ancient and what is

a later interpolation, and even then, much could remain

inconclusive. Svoboda makes mention of this here: http://

www.ayurveda.com/ayurvedic%20press/

ayurveda_life_health_longevity_excerpt.pdf

 

2. While I am of the theoretical opinion that anything can be used as

a medicine (based on the tale of Jivaka), I would agree that some

things like human bones are just plain unethical, particularly if it

hasn't been disclosed to the patient. In India, I think patients are

much more willing to simply listen to the Dr. and not ask any

questions - but that is not the case in the West. In the Tibetan

rGyud bzi the properties of human flesh are described as the best

tonic to reduce rlung (vata). The Chinese also account for some

pretty bizarre remedies as well.

 

3. The Chinese use of metals appears to be more elementary than in

India, and seems more likely to have been an indigenous tradition as

a result of Taoist alchemical practices. Minerals such as cinnabar

and realgar did not undergo the same processing as bhasmas, but

nonetheless were in common use in China until relatively recently.

Caldecott

todd

www.toddcaldecott.com

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

My intention is not arguing.

But about the history of siddha which I know well.

 

The present texts available are of the period of 8th

to 10 th century A.D.

All have metallic preparations.

 

vada[alchemy] vaithiya [medicine] yoga,

kayasiddhi[rejuvenation ] gnana ,[wisdom ]

are the subject.

But the history goes dates back to derada yuga

That is the period of ramayana and mahabharatha.even

at that period Ravana had a mercuric bead.see mercury

bead technique dates back to ramayana period.

let it be ,Aswinidever,and Dhanwanthribagawan

are the siddhars of diredayuga beyond 5000years

All other siddhars are people of kaliyuga

bellow 5000years.

R.vidhyasagar.

[Guest guest]

ashwins and dhanvantri are before treta yuga.

Dhanvantri came out of the churning of the ocean.

I agree with you that siddha and ayurveda are eternal.

I know that alchemy became popular in medieval time in Europe.

Of course because the alchemy came i kaliyuga chances are that it could be

unsafe.

Lead used to be used in many ways and later people realize this was toxic.

But vaidys or siddhars knew how to transform metal and poisons and make them

useful.

I believe this.

The question is, do people still know how to do this today.

Are they making the medicines the way they were made in tretayuga?

Has kaliyuga made them forget how to do things right or due to kaliyug are

they choosing to take shortcuts in making medicines so they can produce more and

make more quick money.

There are many things from ancient medicine that have been lost due to the

fact hat we have lost much of our intuition and connection with nature.

Even vaidyas today are using allopathy and rely on invasive techniques to

check the body rather than relying on pulse and traditional methods of

evaluation.

We are not wise like those who lived in treta and sathya yuga.

I think due to this we must be very careful in choosing our medicine so that

we do not ingest dangerous things thinking that they have been prepared

according to tradition.