preservatives

April 2, 2004

At 08:01 AM 4/2/04, you wrote:

>Hi Butch, What about Vitamin E and Jojoba oil? I thought these two went a

>long way to helping preserve skin care products without actually having to

>add

>another preservative.

vitamin E is an ANTIOXIDANT... as such it can delay oxidation/rancidity

it does absolutely nothing to prevent the growth of bacteria and/or mold.

for that you need an effective preservative, if your product has a water

phase in it.

if you have a balm or salve with NO water based ingredients, than the

vitamin E will do you nicely.

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April 7, 2004

Mnn.....I am thinking about an opition--citric acid.. is that ok to

be a natural preservative??

Have a good day!

Juliane

, Marge Clark <marge@n...> wrote:

> At 08:01 AM 4/2/04, you wrote:

> >Hi Butch, What about Vitamin E and Jojoba oil? I thought these two

went a

> >long way to helping preserve skin care products without actually

having to

> >add

> >another preservative.

>

> vitamin E is an ANTIOXIDANT... as such it can delay

oxidation/rancidity

>

> it does absolutely nothing to prevent the growth of bacteria and/or

mold.

>

> for that you need an effective preservative, if your product has a

water

> phase in it.

>

> if you have a balm or salve with NO water based ingredients, than

the

> vitamin E will do you nicely.

>

> Your source for superb Essential Oils, Aromatherapy

> Accessories, Information, Books and more!

> Visit us at: <http://www.naturesgift.com>

>

April 8, 2004

citric acid is not a perservative. It is used for ph balance, in lotions and

creams or to make things fizz, when used with sodium bicorbonate in bath bombs

or fizzing bath salts.

Anita in TX

Mnn.....I am thinking about an opition--citric acid.. is that ok to

be a natural preservative??

Have a good day!

Juliane

April 9, 2004

Hi Juliane,

>Mnn.....I am thinking about an opition--citric acid.. is that ok to

>be a natural preservative??

Citric acid isn't a preservative, but it does make a cream or lotion more

acidic which is a less hospitable environment for the little beasties to

colonize. You do have to be careful with it because to much will lower the

pH and then you'll have more of an alpha hydroxy action going on.

There is a product out that is supposed to be natural and Burts Bees is

using it. It is sugar based enzymes and something else, I can't remember

the name of it. I'll try to post something on it later.

Margaret

www.naturalindulgences.com

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June 1, 2004

I have read that adding wheat germ and/or jojoba oil will prolong the shelf life

of some products. Maybe this is something you could check into. Doesn't using

sterlized items (bottles) help to keep the germs away? Kathy

-

Tracy Rivera

Cc: ATFE

5/31/2004 8:01:44 PM

Preservatives

I am wanting to make more things to add to our line and I need it to not grow

stuff. It was one things to make things up for friends and family to buy from

us, but other locals are beginning to get word. :-) I am torn, and a bit

confused, about the whole preservative deal. I would love to hear y'all's

opinions and recommendations about using preservatives in cleansers, lotions,

toners, etc.

Thanks so much!

Tracy

*Some people only dream of angels; we held one in our arms.*

Remembering Jacob March 8 - 9, 1996

Our Angel: http://sids-network.org/fp/jacob.htm

June 1, 2004

Tracy: I have just researched this very subject as I am new to making skin

care products. I was confused in the beginning about natural vs. synthetic.

After much reading, this is what I have come to believe:

1. Formulations must be preserved, particularly if there is water in the

recipe.

2. Natural preservatives (eo's, herbs, and other natural ingredients) are

effective. I, however, do not have the knowledge or training with these

ingredients to feel comfortable using them as preservatives, yet. Besides, I'm

having so much fun right now with fragrance oils. When I get bored with FO's,

I'll

move on up to EO's and such.

3. Synthetic preservatives are effective but have harmful chemicals.

However, we use such a low dosage that these harmful chemicals should not

present a

problem for most people. And it's a small price to pay for what could happen

if a product is not preserved.

4. I believe that GSE (grapefruit seed extract), if it demonstrates

preserving qualities, contains synthetics due to the extraction method used, and

that

it is the synthetics that actually do the preserving.

That's my two cents worth. Remember, I'm new to making skin care products.

I'm sure there are plenty more experienced people on this list who can offer

other insights, and I'm open to all of it.

Good luck to you,

Teresea C.

June 1, 2004

Is not wheat germ oil an antioxidant? It will prolong the shelf life of the

oils in a formula, but it will not preserve it - meaning that it will not kill

the bacteria, mold and yeast that will begin to grow if left unpreserved.

Same goes for jojoba.

A newbie,

Teresea C.

June 1, 2004

In a message dated 6/1/2004 12:59:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

butchbsi writes:

> I believe you are pretty much on the mark below .. except maybe point.

Duly noted...thanks Butch!

Teresea C.

June 1, 2004

At 12:08 AM 6/1/2004, you wrote:

>I am wanting to make more things to add to our line and I need it to not

>grow stuff. It was one things to make things up for friends and family to

>buy from us, but other locals are beginning to get word. :-) I am torn,

>and a bit confused, about the whole preservative deal. I would love to

>hear y'all's opinions and recommendations about using preservatives in

>cleansers, lotions, toners, etc.

to the best of my knowledge there is no safe and effective 'natural'

preservative.

if there were... the corporate giants would love it... think of the

advertising benefits...

when I make a cream or lotion to sell, it is well preserved....

personally, I am allergic to the parabens, so I don't use a system

containing them... but I do use a synthetic preservative.

Your source for superb Essential Oils, Aromatherapy

Accessories, Information, Books and more!

Visit us at: <http://www.naturesgift.com>

June 1, 2004

I sure appreciate all the comments on preservatives, and I know I am going to

have to use something. However, this is not something I just want to jump into.

I would like to learn a bit about what is the " right " one for my uses, etc. Is

there a site that discusses the various preservatives? I haven't found one. Is

there a particular one that you all prefer?

I don't want to get into a big retail deal right now, but just here in town, and

I want to make sure everything is as safe as possible.

Thanks again,

Tracy

New email address: rubberjunkie

*Some people only dream of angels; we held one in our arms.*

Remembering Jacob March 8 - 9, 1996

Our Angel: http://sids-network.org/fp/jacob.htm

-

Marge Clark

Tuesday, June 01, 2004 10:29 AM

Re:preservatives

At 12:08 AM 6/1/2004, you wrote:

>I am wanting to make more things to add to our line and I need it to not

>grow stuff. It was one things to make things up for friends and family to

>buy from us, but other locals are beginning to get word. :-) I am torn,

>and a bit confused, about the whole preservative deal. I would love to

>hear y'all's opinions and recommendations about using preservatives in

>cleansers, lotions, toners, etc.

to the best of my knowledge there is no safe and effective 'natural'

preservative.

if there were... the corporate giants would love it... think of the

advertising benefits...

when I make a cream or lotion to sell, it is well preserved....

personally, I am allergic to the parabens, so I don't use a system

containing them... but I do use a synthetic preservative.

June 1, 2004

At 01:48 PM 6/1/2004 -0600, you wrote:

>I sure appreciate all the comments on preservatives, and I know I am going

to have to use something. However, this is not something I just want to

jump into. I would like to learn a bit about what is the " right " one for

my uses, etc. Is there a site that discusses the various preservatives? I

haven't found one. Is there a particular one that you all prefer?

Hi Tracy:

Over the years, I have seen many folks recommend:

http://snowdriftfarm.com/

They have a lot of info on preservatives.

I believe that : http://camdengrey.com also gives info on preservatives.

If they don't have the precise info you're looking for, email them and ask,

I'm sure they'll help you.

http://member.newsguy.com/~herblady

June 2, 2004

I make an oil and tincture from the buds of the Balsam Poplar tree.

Acts like benzoin, makes a good natural preservative.

C-M

June 2, 2004

Hi Tracey,

It does depend on the end use--high pH preparations require using Suttocide A

(the only one I've read is reliable on these,

feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), all-oil preparations use another

(Liquipar, if I 'member right and Phenonip maybe) and

lotions that use water, milk or aloe juice require still another (several

options here).

Once you know what you're preserving, then you need to decide if you want to use

things ending in -paraben. They do work

fine; however there are many folks who have skin problems from using them, even

in the very small dosages you would use them

in preparations. I use Germall Plus for lotions; I do have folks who are either

sensitive to parabens or prefer not to expose

their skin (I agree the risk is small; however, it's their skin and they can put

what they want on it), so I picked Germall

Plus for the lack of parabens.

One more note on picks for preservatives--even tho there's a couple places that

claim to have a " natural " preservative

(Potassium Sorbate is the one being named that now), I'm waiting for the jury to

come in on it--I've had cellulitis, it's not

pretty and not painless and I sure don't want anyone who uses my stuff to get it

because I jumped the gun on using a natural

preservative.

Once you decide what's good for your use, follow manufacturer's directions very

very carefully on percentage of total formula

batch to make sure you don't use too little or too much (some do irritate when

over-used; more is not necessarily better).

HTH and if you want more info, feel free to holler at serraangel @ chartermi.net

Serra

> At 01:48 PM 6/1/2004 -0600, you wrote:

> >I sure appreciate all the comments on preservatives, and I know I am going

> to have to use something. However, this is not something I just want to

> jump into. I would like to learn a bit about what is the " right " one for

> my uses, etc. Is there a site that discusses the various preservatives? I

> haven't found one. Is there a particular one that you all prefer?

>

--

Work like you don't need the money.

Love like you've never been hurt.

Dance like nobody's watching.

Sing like nobody's listening.

Live like it's Heaven on Earth.

http://www.angelicprovidence.com

June 2, 2004

Let me say first that this is " my opinion " . If you have a toiletry that either

contains water(ie lotions), or comes in contact with water and the hands( ie

body butter, etc) then you need a perservative. I first started using potasium

sorbate several years ago(it is a " natural " mold inhibitor). Then I found out

that it just kills mold, and not bacteria. So now I use Phenonip( don't have my

info in front of me, and that is the " trade name " , so can't give you the INCI

name). I too wanted an all natural preservative, but from my reading, there is

no such thing. However, explaining this to my customers, they really don't

mind, I tell them that it is as natural as I can make it, and still have it safe

for their use.

Anita in TX

I am torn, and a bit confused, about the whole preservative deal. I would

love to hear y'all's opinions and recommendations about using preservatives in

cleansers, lotions, toners, etc.

Thanks so much!

Tracy

June 2, 2004

At 09:06 AM 6/2/2004, you wrote:

> Is there a particular one that you all prefer?

this is a starting

point... http://www.ispcorp.com/products/preservatives/index.html

the manufacturer of most of the ones you'll see discussed.

Many soap and toiletries supplier's offer them...

personally, I " m allergic to the parabens...so I use Liquid Germall Plus

which I purchase from Angie at www.theherbarie.com she is a wealth of

information.

Your source for superb Essential Oils, Aromatherapy

Accessories, Information, Books and more!

Visit us at: <http://www.naturesgift.com>

June 2, 2004

Y'all are all great! I really appreciate hearing your opinons and

recommendations. I will waffle back and forth on info from " both " sides

forever, so I need to hear " this is what needs to be done " every once in a

while. :-)

Tracy

New email address: rubberjunkie

*Some people only dream of angels; we held one in our arms.*

Remembering Jacob March 8 - 9, 1996

Our Angel: http://sids-network.org/fp/jacob.htm

-

Marge Clark

Wednesday, June 02, 2004 12:41 PM

Re: preservatives

At 09:06 AM 6/2/2004, you wrote:

> Is there a particular one that you all prefer?

this is a starting

point... http://www.ispcorp.com/products/preservatives/index.html

the manufacturer of most of the ones you'll see discussed.

Many soap and toiletries supplier's offer them...

personally, I " m allergic to the parabens...so I use Liquid Germall Plus

which I purchase from Angie at www.theherbarie.com she is a wealth of

information.

Your source for superb Essential Oils, Aromatherapy

Accessories, Information, Books and more!

Visit us at: <http://www.naturesgift.com>

Step By Step Instructions On Making Rose Petal Preserves:

http://www.av-at.com/stuff/rosejam.html

To adjust your group settings (i.e. go no mail) see the following link:

/join

June 2, 2004

Chimin in here, I've been off computer for a few days:

There is no one 'right' preservative. It will change depending on

the pH of the product, how long you plan to keep it, type of

emulsion, percent water, etc. That's part of what the Chemist of the

world do. There are some good chemist out there in the world that

work hard to extend the shelf life of many products.

Good for you for deciding on the necessity of using one. I get so

peeved when people whom don't bother to do any research and say they

don't use preservatives in their lotions. Either their lying,

violating the FDA, irresponsible or all of the above.

I bet the same people wouldn't drink from a 4 day old pot of coffee,

but they think it's o.k. to make a 'preservative free' lotion! I

say, make a lovely lotion. Leave it sealed for 5 days in a warm

place, then take a look. (Eeek Scary.) It will look a lot like the

old moldy coffee. Remember, by the time you can see the people, it's

been there a L O N G time.

I think people should treat making lotions more seriously than making

food in a restaurant. If you screw up, you could make people very

sick, or worse, but lotions sit around at room temperature for week.

Don't know many food that can do that without going toxic!

Remember preservatives must act as poisons to the molds and fungi we

don't want growing in our lotions. Yes, that would mean they

wouldn't be good for us either – which is why we use them in

small

quantities. But I think it's safer than slathering oneself in mold

and fungi.

David Roman

http://www.ardatharomas.com

June 2, 2004

" Is not wheat germ oil an antioxidant? "

Yes, but wheat germ oil has a very short shelf life. It goes rancid

quicly by itself, it will not at as a perservatives.

Many people keep wheat germ oil in the fridge, as it last for such a

a short amount of time.

David Roman

June 3, 2004

>

> Yes, but wheat germ oil has a very short shelf life. It goes rancid

> quicly by itself, it will not at as a perservatives.

>

> Many people keep wheat germ oil in the fridge, as it last for such a

> a short amount of time.

Is this only after it is opened that it lasts a short time, or even

unopened?

tia,

san

June 3, 2004

Hi Marge,

>to the best of my knowledge there is no safe and effective 'natural'

>preservative.

>

>if there were... the corporate giants would love it... think of the

>advertising benefits...

>

So what do you know of the preservative system that Burts Bee's is currently

using and touting as natural? I think it is called biovert and or miovert.

Sounds promising to me...

Margaret

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June 7, 2004

I've used GSE in a facial cleanser before because it was easy and readily

available. For whatever reason, the cleanser didn't seem to get yucky. Of

course, you can't always see the yuckies, eh?

Tracy

*Some people only dream of angels; we held one in our arms.*

Remembering Jacob March 8 - 9, 1996

Our Angel: http://sids-network.org/fp/jacob.htm

-

4. I believe that GSE (grapefruit seed extract), if it demonstrates

preserving qualities, contains synthetics due to the extraction method used,

and that

it is the synthetics that actually do the preserving

December 10, 2004

Evening all!

I stock some bodycare products made here in the UK which do not contain

'synthetic' preservatives - they are preserved with essential oils. For info,

here's the link ....

http://www.faithinnature.com/shop_frameset_intro.asp

They also work really well and feel great. I don't know about outside the EU,

but legislation here is very stringent on product testing, shelf life, etc. and

this company's products do comply.

Kind regards.

Jane

-

Butch Owen

Saturday, December 11, 2004 3:01 AM

Preservatives

Hi y'all,

An old one on Preservatives .. another follows. What those who want to

create cosmetics have to accept is that they either gotta take a risk or

they gotta use synthetic preservatives .. simple as that. :-) Butch

Butch Owen <butchbsi

Tue, 01 Jun 2004 10:42:20 -0700

Preservatives

Hi Teresea,

I believe you are pretty much on the mark below .. except maybe point.

There are many outfits claiming to use " natural " preservatives but to

date there have been none found that are effective when used at an

acceptable level. By that I mean .. for example .. Origanum EO is a

very effective preservative but the percentage required to perform that

task would be too high for practical use .. and maybe even safe use.

> Tracy: I have just researched this very subject as I am new to making

> skin care products. I was confused in the beginning about natural vs.

> synthetic. After much reading, this is what I have come to believe:

>

> 1. Formulations must be preserved, particularly if there is water in

> the recipe.

Matter of fact that is .. especially if they are to have a decent shelf

life. But even then they can go bad because some folks do mishandle

cosmetics and such .. like sticking their fingers in creams.

> 2. Natural preservatives (eo's, herbs, and other natural ingredients)

> are effective. I, however, do not have the knowledge or training with

> these ingredients to feel comfortable using them as preservatives, yet.

> Besides, I'm having so much fun right now with fragrance oils. When I

> get bored with FO's, I'll move on up to EO's and such.

The information above, though commonly found as a marketing gimmick ..

is not factual. There are no SAFE and EFFECTIVE natural preservatives.

> 3. Synthetic preservatives are effective but have harmful chemicals.

Maybe .. but so does drinking water .. and the air we breath .. and most

of the food we eat .. that is, except for those who " claim " to only eat

fresh or properly stored organic foods harvested by 12 year old virgins

in long flowing gowns who are thanking the plants for their sacrifices

whilst chanting Hari Krishna or some such. ;-)

> However, we use such a low dosage that these harmful chemicals should

> not present a problem for most people. And it's a small price to pay

> for what could happen if a product is not preserved.

I agree and believe your statement is perzackly right.

> 4. I believe that GSE (grapefruit seed extract), if it demonstrates

> preserving qualities, contains synthetics due to the extraction method

> used, and that it is the synthetics that actually do the preserving.

I agree here too.

> That's my two cents worth. Remember, I'm new to making skin care products.

> I'm sure there are plenty more experienced people on this list who can offer

> other insights, and I'm open to all of it.

Good show .. and learning you will on this list. I know more about my

PC and my oven than I do skin care products .. odds are nobody on the

list is more ignert than me in this area nor less interested than me in

getting all the facts on this subject. ;-)

> Good luck to you,

> Teresea C.

And to you .. and keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

Step By Step Instructions On Making Rose Petal Preserves:

http://www.av-at.com/stuff/rosejam.html

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/join

December 10, 2004

Hi Jane

I noticed that the site says : " No synthetic preservatives in Hair care

, Soaps, Hand wash or ShowerGel/Foam baths "

I can see the soap products not having a preservative. I make liquid

soap and haven't found the need for a preservative due to the pH. Its

not an inviting place for nasties to grow

I can't really say anything about the hair conditioner or its

ingredients because they don't list all of the ingredients, just the

main botanical used for each formula. I see where they mention that they

don't use any preservatives or preserved ingredients though. Do the

conditioners by chance have a " Best Used By " date on them? I know of one

company in the US that makes some concoctions that they say have no

preservatives and they come in small containers and have a " Use By " date

on them and recommend that folks keep them in the fridge after opening

them...

*shrug* All I can say is something a natural lotion maker told me once

to put the " water as a medium for nasties to grow in without effective

preservatives " thing into a better perspective (who also wishes there

was a good natural preservative out there cause he'd rather not use the

synthetic preservatives) - go make a cup of tea and leave it sit on your

counter covered for a week - put one drop of EO in it even, and see if

you would want to drink it or bathe in after that week ;-p

I am all ears to hearing about any natural preservative that has been

proven effective for things like lotions! I don't doubt that for the

short term there are several effective options, but if folks want

something they can keep for months, maybe years .. there has to be a

synthetic preservative in it somewhere.

Have a great weekend!

*Smile*

Chris (list mom)

http://www.alittleolfactory.com

jane [jane]

Evening all!

I stock some bodycare products made here in the UK which do not contain

'synthetic' preservatives - they are preserved with essential oils. For

info, here's the link ....

http://www.faithinnature.com/shop_frameset_intro.asp

They also work really well and feel great. I don't know about outside

the EU, but legislation here is very stringent on product testing, shelf

life, etc. and this company's products do comply.

Kind regards.

Jane

December 10, 2004

Great information Chris, Butch et al. Thanks for sharing your wisdom!

Michelle

December 10, 2004

Hi Chris

Nice to 'speak' to you and thanks for running such a great list - I'm learning a

lot.

I too have worked in 'natural' products and tried in vain to produce things

without synthetic preservatives. I believe it's when you mix oil and water that

the real problems occur. Like a fresh mayonnaise it lasts in the fridge for

quite a short while only.

The EU Cosmetics Directive requires that all products for bodycare have a shelf

life of at least 2 years (could be 3) and this company's products comply with

that so there's no sell-by date as that would be illegal here.

For interest, the INCI listing of their conditioner I'm using at the moment is

as follows: Water, Cetearyl alcohol (coconut derived wax), cetrimonium chloride,

mella azadirachta (neem - I'm using the Neem & Propolis variety), canola oil,

propolis, citrus reticulata (mandarin EO), citrus aurantium (petitgrain EO)

citrus sinensis (orange EO), litsea cubeba (may chang EO), cinnamonum zeylanicum

(cinnamon EO) and melaleuca alternifolia (tea tree EO). The last 5 or 6 EOs are

standard throughout their range and must constitute their 'preservative'.

Does anyone know whether this is the 'truth'? .... parabens are

naturally-occurring chemicals in plants and can therefore be

'naturally-derived'?

Kind regards.

Jane

-

Christine Ziegler

Friday, December 10, 2004 6:29 PM

RE: Preservatives

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