restless leg syndrome

March 18, 1999

This is the info I sent to another group about RLS-Dottie

Restless legs syndrome (RLS) is a movement disorder that causes

uncomfortable sensations in the legs. These sensations are typically worse

during periods of rest, especially just before sleeping at night, but they

may also happen during daytime periods of inactivity, such as watching a

movie, attending a long business meeting, or flying in a plane. Whenever the

discomfort of RLS occurs, it is usually accompanied by an overwhelming urge

to move the legs, and this movement may temporarily relieve leg discomfort.

At night, persons with RLS often find that their leg symptoms make it

difficult to fall asleep. Because of this, insomnia is common, together with

extreme drowsiness and fatigue during the daytime.

The cause of most cases of RLS remains unknown. However, since RLS tends to

occur in several generations of an affected family, scientists suspect that

there is some genetic (inherited) risk for the problem. In some persons with

RLS, anemia or vitamin deficiency may be a contributing factor, while in

others RLS has been linked to pregnancy, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis,

kidney failure, or peripheral neuropathy (nerve damage in the hands and

feet). High caffeine intake (coffee, tea, cola beverages, chocolate) may

also be related to RLS.

Although RLS tends to be more common and more severe in persons over age 50,

it can occur in men and women of any age group, even in young persons who

may be misdiagnosed as " hyperactive. " Currently, tens of thousands of

Americans have RLS that is severe enough to disrupt normal daily life.

However, researchers estimate that even more people - possibly up to 3%-8%

of the U.S. population - may have occasional milder symptoms of RLS.

Symptoms

RLS causes a wide range of uncomfortable leg sensations, which may be

described as any of the following: tingling, pins and needles, prickly,

wormy, boring, crawling, pulling, drawing, and (sometimes) pain. Although

the muscles of the lower legs are affected most often, RLS may occasionally

cause symptoms in the ankles and arms as well. The discomfort of RLS is

almost always accompanied by an irresistible need to move the legs, and leg

movement (walking, stretching, deep knee bends) does seem to temporarily

bring relief. A leg massage or a warm bath may also help.

In addition to leg discomfort, RLS may also cause periodic jerking leg

movements during sleep. These involuntary leg movements often disturb both

the patient and the patient's bed partner. Also, because symptoms of RLS

tend to be worse at bedtime, persons with RLS may find it hard to fall

asleep and to stay asleep. This can cause chronic insomnia and severe

daytime drowsiness, which may significantly interfere with work, school, and

social life.

Your doctor will diagnose RLS based on your symptoms, medical history,

family history, and a physical examination. Your doctor will also perform a

neurological examination to rule out nerve damage, and he or she will order

routine blood tests to check for anemia, iron or vitamin deficiency,

diabetes, and kidney problems. In some cases, an overnight sleep study at a

sleep clinic may be necessary.

Restless Legs Syndrome Foundation, Inc.,

4410 19th Street NW - Suite 201

Rochester MN 55901-6624

E-mail: rlsf

www.rls.org

One of the symptoms of a deficiency of tyrosine is restless leg

syndrome.

Natural sources of tyrosine include almonds, avocados, bananas, dairy

products, lima beans, pumpkin seeds, and sesame seeds. Tyrosine also can be

produced from phenylalanine in the body. Supplements of L-tyrosine should be

taken at bedtime or with a high-carbohydrate meal so that it does not have

to compete for absorption with other amino acids.

Persons taking monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors, commonly prescribed for

depression, must strictly limit their intake of foods containing tyrosine

and should not take any supplements containing L-tyrosine, as it may lead to

a sudden and dangerous rise in blood pressure. Anyone who takes prescription

medication for depression should discuss necessary dietary restrictions with

their physician.

Ian Shillington <ian_shillington

herbal remedies <herbal remedies >

Thursday, March 18, 1999 5:46 PM

[herbal remedies] Re: Cayenne

>Ian Shillington <ian_shillington

>

>Hi,

>

>Sorry. Never heard of it, and could find nothing in the books on my shelf

on it.

>

>Check with Rusty. She may know.

>

>Ian

>

>COCO wrote:

>

>> COCO <mainard

>>

>> Hi! I'm curious if you have heard of restless leg syndrome? Well, I

have it and

>> was wondering if you have heard of Lobelia for this condition? Or have

you heard

>> of any herbal supplements for it? I would appreciate your information.

Thanks.

>> COCO 41 Mo.

>>

March 18, 1999

Thanks for jumping in on this Dottie.

I'll save this one for my own personal archives.

Ian

PS. I would think that Lobelia would help wonders with this condition (Lobelia

and

the other nerve sedative herbs). As it says close to the bottom of this page,

the

condition could be aggravated by coffee etc. etc. As is the case with most

physical disorders, sometimes the cure is not something we need to take, but

rather

a habit or unhealthy lifestyle that needs to be cut out or changed. IS

Carl L Wolfgang wrote:

> " Carl L Wolfgang " <TAPAKEY

>

> This is the info I sent to another group about RLS-Dottie

> Restless legs syndrome (RLS) is a movement disorder that causes

> uncomfortable sensations in the legs. These sensations are typically worse

> during periods of rest, especially just before sleeping at night, but they

> may also happen during daytime periods of inactivity, such as watching a

> movie, attending a long business meeting, or flying in a plane. Whenever the

> discomfort of RLS occurs, it is usually accompanied by an overwhelming urge

> to move the legs, and this movement may temporarily relieve leg discomfort.

> At night, persons with RLS often find that their leg symptoms make it

> difficult to fall asleep. Because of this, insomnia is common, together with

> extreme drowsiness and fatigue during the daytime.

> The cause of most cases of RLS remains unknown. However, since RLS tends to

> occur in several generations of an affected family, scientists suspect that

> there is some genetic (inherited) risk for the problem. In some persons with

> RLS, anemia or vitamin deficiency may be a contributing factor, while in

> others RLS has been linked to pregnancy, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis,

> kidney failure, or peripheral neuropathy (nerve damage in the hands and

> feet). High caffeine intake (coffee, tea, cola beverages, chocolate) may

> also be related to RLS.

> Although RLS tends to be more common and more severe in persons over age 50,

> it can occur in men and women of any age group, even in young persons who

> may be misdiagnosed as " hyperactive. " Currently, tens of thousands of

> Americans have RLS that is severe enough to disrupt normal daily life.

> However, researchers estimate that even more people - possibly up to 3%-8%

> of the U.S. population - may have occasional milder symptoms of RLS.

>

> Symptoms

> RLS causes a wide range of uncomfortable leg sensations, which may be

> described as any of the following: tingling, pins and needles, prickly,

> wormy, boring, crawling, pulling, drawing, and (sometimes) pain. Although

> the muscles of the lower legs are affected most often, RLS may occasionally

> cause symptoms in the ankles and arms as well. The discomfort of RLS is

> almost always accompanied by an irresistible need to move the legs, and leg

> movement (walking, stretching, deep knee bends) does seem to temporarily

> bring relief. A leg massage or a warm bath may also help.

> In addition to leg discomfort, RLS may also cause periodic jerking leg

> movements during sleep. These involuntary leg movements often disturb both

> the patient and the patient's bed partner. Also, because symptoms of RLS

> tend to be worse at bedtime, persons with RLS may find it hard to fall

> asleep and to stay asleep. This can cause chronic insomnia and severe

> daytime drowsiness, which may significantly interfere with work, school, and

> social life.

>

> Your doctor will diagnose RLS based on your symptoms, medical history,

> family history, and a physical examination. Your doctor will also perform a

> neurological examination to rule out nerve damage, and he or she will order

> routine blood tests to check for anemia, iron or vitamin deficiency,

> diabetes, and kidney problems. In some cases, an overnight sleep study at a

> sleep clinic may be necessary.

>

> Restless Legs Syndrome Foundation, Inc.,

> 4410 19th Street NW - Suite 201

> Rochester MN 55901-6624

> E-mail: rlsf

> www.rls.org

>

> One of the symptoms of a deficiency of tyrosine is restless leg

> syndrome.

> Natural sources of tyrosine include almonds, avocados, bananas, dairy

> products, lima beans, pumpkin seeds, and sesame seeds. Tyrosine also can be

> produced from phenylalanine in the body. Supplements of L-tyrosine should be

> taken at bedtime or with a high-carbohydrate meal so that it does not have

> to compete for absorption with other amino acids.

> Persons taking monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors, commonly prescribed for

> depression, must strictly limit their intake of foods containing tyrosine

> and should not take any supplements containing L-tyrosine, as it may lead to

> a sudden and dangerous rise in blood pressure. Anyone who takes prescription

> medication for depression should discuss necessary dietary restrictions with

> their physician.

>

> Ian Shillington <ian_shillington

> herbal remedies <herbal remedies >

> Thursday, March 18, 1999 5:46 PM

> [herbal remedies] Re: Cayenne

>

> >Ian Shillington <ian_shillington

> >

> >Hi,

> >

> >Sorry. Never heard of it, and could find nothing in the books on my shelf

> on it.

> >

> >Check with Rusty. She may know.

> >

> >Ian

> >

> >COCO wrote:

> >

> >> COCO <mainard

> >>

> >> Hi! I'm curious if you have heard of restless leg syndrome? Well, I

> have it and

> >> was wondering if you have heard of Lobelia for this condition? Or have

> you heard

> >> of any herbal supplements for it? I would appreciate your information.

> Thanks.

> >> COCO 41 Mo.

March 17, 2001

Doug..........Did you use herbs? I have had tremendous success over the years

treating restless leg syndrome with Kanpo style (Bai Shao Gan Cao Tang). But

since you invoke the divergent of the stomach, I am inclined to explore Cong

Bai and Tian Men Dong. What was your success?

Will

March 17, 2001

Cara,

The divergents go between the surface and the interior, so I combine surface acting agents with deep acting agents and use organotropic aspects for therapy localization. You might call it acupuncturization of herbal concepts and it is definitely MSU.......

Doug was citing IBS, the concept is complementary to the divergent meridian treatment if it is working. These herbs would be a possible modification of a standard guiding prescription, not stand-alone.

As far as restless leg syndrome, I'll stick to tried and true much as Alon indicated.

Will

March 17, 2001

OK...that wasn't clear, I am not using Cong Bai and Tian Men Dong for restless leg, it is a modification for IBS............Will

March 17, 2001

on 3/17/01 9:35 AM, WMorris116 at WMorris116 wrote:

> Doug..........Did you use herbs? I have had tremendous success over the years

> treating restless leg syndrome with Kanpo style (Bai Shao Gan Cao Tang). But

> since you invoke the divergent of the stomach, I am inclined to explore Cong

> Bai and Tian Men Dong. What was your success?

>

> Will

Will,

what are you thinking of re: cong bai? I'm having trouble getting inside

your head on that one.

Cara

>

March 17, 2001

Bai Shao Gan Cao Tang

>>>I have also used this with additions of Mu Gua and sometimes gui zhi with lots of success

Alon

March 17, 2001

, <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> Bai Shao Gan Cao Tang

> >>>I have also used this with additions of Mu Gua and sometimes gui zhi with

lots of success

> Alon

what form and doses?

March 18, 2001

In a message dated 3/18/01 6:25:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,

herbbabe writes:

> So now, can you help me understand your use of tian man dong- which is

> cloying and freezing cold IBS?

Also....Cong Bai is warming and pungent which modifies your concerns. Will

March 18, 2001

In a message dated 3/18/01 6:24:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,

herbbabe writes:

>

> OK- I'm totally into MSU. how's about then trying ma huang- to drive the

> pathogen to the surface, a la yang he tang? that's really my favorite

> formula to move qi through the divergents- right from the kidneys all the

> way out to the lung channel.

Yes for latent cold trapped at the interior, this is possible. Will

March 18, 2001

on 3/17/01 11:31 AM, WMorris116 at WMorris116 wrote:

Cara,

The divergents go between the surface and the interior, so I combine surface

acting agents with deep acting agents and use organotropic aspects for

therapy localization. You might call it acupuncturization of herbal concepts

and it is definitely MSU.......

Doug was citing IBS, the concept is complementary to the divergent meridian

treatment if it is working. These herbs would be a possible modification of a

standard guiding prescription, not stand-alone.

As far as restless leg syndrome, I'll stick to tried and true much as Alon

indicated.

Will

OK- I'm totally into MSU. how's about then trying ma huang- to drive the pathogen to the surface, a la yang he tang? that's really my favorite formula to move qi through the divergents- right from the kidneys all the way out to the lung channel.

Cara

March 18, 2001

on 3/17/01 11:57 AM, WMorris116 at WMorris116 wrote:

OK...that wasn't clear, I am not using Cong Bai and Tian Men Dong for

restless leg, it is a modification for IBS............Will

Will,

So now, can you help me understand your use of tian man dong- which is cloying and freezing cold IBS?

thanks!

Cara

March 18, 2001

I have also used this with additions of Mu Gua and sometimes gui zhi with lots of success> Alonwhat form and doses?>>>>>I use ming tong single herb powders. I use them as though they were bulk herbs. Since this would make a small formula I often give much lager dose for each herb something like 10 g per week per herb except for gan cao which is much lower.

Alon

March 18, 2001

latent cold trapped at the interior

>>>What are the so/so of latent cold? The yang he tong is used for yin swelling which are quite visable.

Alon

March 18, 2001

Todd:

Lead Surface-Dispersing Medicinals to the Kidneys to disperse deep-lying

Latent Qi is a treatment principle that has proven effective in clinical

practice. So while the treatment I presented is MSU (Al...making stuff up),

it is not far from Liu Baoyi's concept of carrying a surface relieving agent

to the interior.

Qing Hao Bie Jia Tang is used for pathogens from heat diseases hidden in the

Yin aspect and employs the strategy I am suggesting, however, I am using a

surface warming agent for possible latent cold.

Liu also combined Herba Menthae (Bo He) and Radix Rehmanniae Glutinosae

(Sheng Di) with the Semen Soja Preparatum (Dou Chi) to nourish the yin and

promote the elimination of pathogens.

In a message dated 3/18/01 10:33:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,

writes:

> I wonder what drives others to the fringes? Life and pursuit of destiny

> Is it the same rare cases that don't yield to TCM? Couldn't answer that

> Or is it intellectual curiosity? definitely

>Do you find that TCM does not work adequately in a large number of cases?

No, it varies. I do find concepts such as divergent meridians proffered

without full conceptual development and I am very interested in developing

these ideas more fully. I

The prime motivation for me is understanding, ownership, stimulation

March 18, 2001

, Cara Frank <herbbabe@e...> wrote:

> on 3/17/01 11:31 AM, WMorris116@A... at WMorris116@A... wrote:

>

You might call it acupuncturization of herbal

> concepts

> and it is definitely MSU.......

>

\

>

> OK- I'm totally into MSU. how's about then trying ma huang- to drive the

> pathogen to the surface, a la yang he tang? that's really my favorite

> formula to move qi through the divergents- right from the kidneys all the

> way out to the lung channel.

>

> Cara

I don't see anything wrong with MSU,per se, as long as one is clear

that is what one is doing and does not present it as " classical " or

" tradition " or some such thing. for instance, there is opinion that

much of van nghi (spelled it wrong, I think) and chamfrault is MSU.

But, as Lonny Jarret pointed out on another list, all of TCM was MSU at

one time. However, some MSU has stood the test of time, while most of

the ideas espoused over the centuries have fallen by the wayside. I

think this situation is comparable to much of naturopathy and various

forms of herbal medicine from the mid 1800's in the US. The library at

NCNM has 100's of volumes of books and journals espousing theories of

health and illness,the vast majority of which never became part of

mainstream naturopathy. I was glad to hear that Will sticks with the

tried and true in restless leg syndrome, but the question is then

begged, " why and under what circumstances does one resort to MSU in the

clinic " ? I would suggest that the adoption of new MSU throughout

chinese culture is:

1. typically rooted in some previous approach that already has general

acceptance

2. was a response to the failure of previous concepts to successfully

treat illness

the development of wen bing theory fits this mold. However the ascent

of blood stasis theory in modern china is rooted in poorly grounded MSU

(the careless dissections of wang qing ren in the 1700's). Yet both

are considered critical developments in TCM. While wang qing ren's

work has been grounded after the fact by yan de xin and modern

research, there is no doubt that while a skillful formulator, wang was

somewhat the arrogant fool. So MSU clearly has a long tradition and

not always an illustrious one.

Now I consider myself a creative person (believe it or not). My files

are filled with rampant speculation on homeopathy, acupuncture, herbs,

taoist sexual practices, etc. often written by me late at night. But I

usually only extend my clinical gaze to include these speculations if I

fail to achieve the desired results using the tried and true. My

stalwart defense of modern TCM is precisely because it is very rare

that I feel the need to go beyond the tried and true. As long as I

mkae a careful dx and use adequate dosages of herbs, I am very

satisfied with my results. (note: modern TCM includes bian zheng as

well as researched and empirical methods in my opinion,just to be

clear) I wonder what drives others to the fringes? Is it the same

rare cases that don't yield to TCM? Or is it intellectual curiosity or

the desire to be a maverick or discoverer or inventor? Do you find

that TCM does not work adequately in a large number of cases? I know

many folks say this, but I treat very difficult cases myself and I have

not found this to be true. I still find poor dx and low dosage to be a

more prevailing factor in clinical failure than the supposed inadequacy

of TCM.

March 18, 2001

> I don't see anything wrong with MSU,per se, as long as one is clear

> that is what one is doing and does not present it as " classical " or

> " tradition " or some such thing. for instance, there is opinion that

> much of van nghi (spelled it wrong, I think) and chamfrault is MSU.

> But, as Lonny Jarret pointed out on another list, all of TCM was MSU at

> one time. However, some MSU has stood the test of time, while most of

> the ideas espoused over the centuries have fallen by the wayside. I

> think this situation is comparable to much of naturopathy and various

> forms of herbal medicine from the mid 1800's in the US. The library at

> NCNM has 100's of volumes of books and journals espousing theories of

> health and illness,the vast majority of which never became part of

> mainstream naturopathy. I was glad to hear that Will sticks with the

> tried and true in restless leg syndrome, but the question is then

> begged, " why and under what circumstances does one resort to MSU in the

> clinic " ? I would suggest that the adoption of new MSU throughout

> chinese culture is:

>

> 1. typically rooted in some previous approach that already has general

> acceptance

>

> 2. was a response to the failure of previous concepts to successfully

> treat illness

>

> the development of wen bing theory fits this mold. However the ascent

> of blood stasis theory in modern china is rooted in poorly grounded MSU

> (the careless dissections of wang qing ren in the 1700's). Yet both

> are considered critical developments in TCM. While wang qing ren's

> work has been grounded after the fact by yan de xin and modern

> research, there is no doubt that while a skillful formulator, wang was

> somewhat the arrogant fool. So MSU clearly has a long tradition and

> not always an illustrious one.

>

> Now I consider myself a creative person (believe it or not). My files

> are filled with rampant speculation on homeopathy, acupuncture, herbs,

> taoist sexual practices, etc. often written by me late at night. But I

> usually only extend my clinical gaze to include these speculations if I

> fail to achieve the desired results using the tried and true. My

> stalwart defense of modern TCM is precisely because it is very rare

> that I feel the need to go beyond the tried and true. As long as I

> mkae a careful dx and use adequate dosages of herbs, I am very

> satisfied with my results. (note: modern TCM includes bian zheng as

> well as researched and empirical methods in my opinion,just to be

> clear) I wonder what drives others to the fringes? Is it the same

> rare cases that don't yield to TCM? Or is it intellectual curiosity or

> the desire to be a maverick or discoverer or inventor? Do you find

> that TCM does not work adequately in a large number of cases? I know

> many folks say this, but I treat very difficult cases myself and I have

> not found this to be true. I still find poor dx and low dosage to be a

> more prevailing factor in clinical failure than the supposed inadequacy

> of TCM.

>

I think that MSU and people who MSU actually do know what they're doing. I

think you can only take license when you know your topic. MSU is a way of

stretching. of reaching out. I MSU when I'm stuck- then I study more and

think creatively. I don't feel that must honor Chinese medicine but adhering

to every rule. I honor Chinese medicnce my clearly differentiaing, reviewing

dosage ( you're right about hi doses) and then THINKING REALLY HARD and

being still and focused. the answer always bubbles up- sometimes at 3 am. My

ability to do this well comes form years of study. I don't see my students

MSUing- they don't know enough yet. we can only act intuitively after years

of intellectual and didactic study. enough said. let yourself feel freer.

Cara

March 18, 2001

I'm sorry, but I got lost somewhere here.

What's MSU?

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

Attachment: vcard [not shown]

March 18, 2001

Todd wrote

" My stalwart defense of modern TCM is precisely because it is very rare

that I feel the need to go beyond the tried and true. As long as I

mkae a careful dx and use adequate dosages of herbs, I am very

satisfied with my results. (note: modern TCM includes bian zheng as

well as researched and empirical methods in my opinion,just to be clear "

Diagnosis is of course the key to successfull treatment and I am still undecided

about the large dosage thing. For me I think it is establishing which patients

suit the large doses and which respond better to smaller doses. I am finding

that some of the grnule concentrates are

much stronger than what they suggest in terms of dosage. SAlso the other factor

with crude herbs , is that in China the grade of quality is far less than the

imported herbs from Hong Kong.Recently I had moved and my herbs were in storage

so I asked my patients to get their scripts

filled by another practitioner here who imports direct from China (and not Hong

Kong which has the better grade) and all patients remarked that the herbs didn't

seem to work. Of course there are other factors such as did I get the Dx right

at that time etc.

In terms of the chronic stuff , MS , HIV etc good diagnosis in terms of bian

zheng still doesn't hold all the answers and MSU may be the future key to

success.

Incidently , we had a guest lecturer at our college the other day , ex lecturer

professor from Canton I think.........and was talking about Rx of MS, myasthenia

gravis , and ILS (motor neuron disease)

For MS he suggests a course of at least 1000 packets of herbs , on average to

slow down the attacks.Some cases respond sooner , but it is known that in some

cases there are no relapses even with no treatment.

For ILS , he said only to prescibe herbs if the patient believes they may help

and if they can afford it. He said the only treatment TCM can offer is

" compassionate " acupuncture

to support the patient mentally.

Heiko

March 18, 2001

, WMorris116@A... wrote:

:

>

> Lead Surface-Dispersing Medicinals to the Kidneys to disperse deep-lying

> Latent Qi is a treatment principle that has proven effective in clinical

> practice.

And remarkably similar to the strategy described by Heiner Fruehauf for

gu toxins. He uses a combination of yin and qi tonics like huang jing

and xuan shen with heavy doses of surface relievers like bo he, zi su

ye. The purpose is to root out hidden poisons lodged in the dark

crevaces of the body. The question does come to my mind is how valid

are the concepts of divergents elaborated by chamfrault, et. al. this

runs the risk of MSU being based on MSU, not grounded inany tradition

at all. I would like to know where chamfrualt's ideas came from, if,

as Chip Chace has pointed out, they do not appear in the nei jing nor

in my reading of the jia yi jing.

March 18, 2001

Cara,

I would totally disagree.. I see students MSU all the time, because they

don't know jack. They love to spin the web... This is also extended to

teachers... The least knowledgeable are constantly MSUing... I have

witnessed numerous times these less educated 'more experiential' teachers

spin the web. And experience does not mean you know anything. Period. You

can practice for 30 years and be MSU all day long- this does not mean you

are great or have even had one great idea. The common scenario is that I

have found that the most knowledge/ educated practitioners/ teachers don 't

need to MSU. They do not need to stretch, because they are firm in there

understanding of practical modern knowledge and classical theory. When they

don't know, they say I don't know, and may offer their opinion or what they

have found in their clinic. They do not start MSUing.

A previous example from our last discussion comes from your

attributions/comments in regard to the shao yang division/ theory. I think

what was classified as being shao yang is compete MSU. I believe it comes

from a poor understanding of what shao yang actually means and the classic

text (SHL- Shang hun lun)) that it comes from.

These comments were from a previous post:

1) shao yang disorders usually have spleen qi deficiency.

2) spleen qi deficiency leads to wei qi xu causing shao yang.

3) that someone that never feels the right temperature has a shao yang

disorder.

4) that a red maybe scarlet tongue is seen in shao yang disorders.

(Reflecting the heat in the shao yang)

5) that a thin white coating in a shao yang disorder reflects dampness.

etc...

[if I interpreted your words incorrectly I apologize]

Is this SHL or MSU? And justification that it is creative /legitimate

medicine because you have been practicing x amount of years is questionable.

My Chinese prof.'s are very clear on what they know and do not BS.

Just because xia chai hu tang might work for the above s/s (or others) does

not mean the s/s are part of a shao yang disorder.

When one uses terms like shao yang, latent heat etc.. they mean something

very specific, not MSU. By adding to these terms and with one's own

theoretical ideas seems to cloud things. And I have a hard time seeing the

value, especially from westerners who don't even speak Chinese?? (This is

not in reference to anyone in particular just a general statement.)

-

Cara Frank [herbbabe]

Sunday, March 18, 2001 12:24 PM

Re: Re: restless leg syndrome