A Quote

[Guest guest]

Putting this out to the group for discussion:

 

" Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up. "

Robert Frost

 

What do you think of this? How do you feel it is applicable to therapy,

specifically, hypnosis and trauma release techniques?

 

--

Blessings,

Crow

" Look for Rainbows in the Darkness "

--

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 05/19/2000 12:42:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

crow writes:

 

<< " Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up. "

Robert Frost >>

 

OK, Crow, I'll bite:

 

Our bodies repress things as a natural, God-given, defense mechanism. When

we are spiritually & mentally mature enough (beginning our awakening or in

the midst of awakening), our memories will surface on their own for healing.

This occurs naturally. Some therapies are worthwhile, but I say, proceed

with caution. I would love to hear what others have to say.

 

In God's love,

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Hi Debbie

I believe it happens the way you have said. Our memories will not come

until we are ready spiritually and mentally. God has given us those defense

mechanisms

as a gift and he will not let them fall until we are ready for them. this

is what I believe. It has been this way in my life. it all comes in steps

and layers.

Love Cathy

Mcv1052

[Guest guest]

I'd go along with that. Most coping strategies, no matter how ultimately

destructive, start out as fairly appropriate responses. There are times when

the response becomes the problem, however.

 

There's a great line in " Postcards from the Edge. " Merrill (sp?) Streep's

character is checking into rehab and tells the councilor the she doesn't

have a problem. The councilor reply, " Of course not, alcohol's not your

problem, it's your solution. But we can't deal with the problem until we

deal with the solution. " There's a lot of truth in this.

 

Ray

 

 

>DBurke222

>

>

>Re: A Quote

>Fri, 19 May 2000 17:42:40 EDT

>

>In a message dated 05/19/2000 12:42:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>crow writes:

>

><< " Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up. "

> Robert Frost >>

>

>OK, Crow, I'll bite:

>

>Our bodies repress things as a natural, God-given, defense mechanism. When

>we are spiritually & mentally mature enough (beginning our awakening or in

>the midst of awakening), our memories will surface on their own for

>healing.

>This occurs naturally. Some therapies are worthwhile, but I say, proceed

>with caution. I would love to hear what others have to say.

>

>In God's love,

>Debbie

 

______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 05/22/2000 2:10:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

rayhuntermt writes:

 

<< I'd go along with that. Most coping strategies, no matter how ultimately

destructive, start out as fairly appropriate responses. There are times when

the response becomes the problem, however. >>

 

So, in essence, we have to learn to use appropriately what once was a

God-given saving grace, i.e. for me, leaving my body often as a child allowed

me to cope, build my imagination and experience phenomenal spirituality as a

young child. However, as an adult, when I feel threatened I take OOB trips

without intending to! At present I am working on becoming better grounded

and utilizing Reiki and Yoga to assist me with this. I have asked through

prayer, that my spiritual gifts be put on hold until I can maintain balance

as I journey forward. Does this make sense???

 

In God's love,

Deb

[Guest guest]

Like all tough questions, I would say that the answer is, " it depends. "

Personally, I found that I " discovered " spritual gifts as I was able to take

advantage of them. OK, sometimes a little before. For me, they took on a

variety of forms.

 

You may have guessed that my " solution " came in a bottle. I had to get that

under control before I could even begin to deal with the demons I was trying

to drown. A very special person gave me the insights I needed to start that

process, but there were still many things I needed to figure out. Hints came

from a dizzying variety of sources. An insight from a friend's unpublished

Sci-Fi novel helped a great deal as did assorted song lyrics. Spider

Robinson's " Stardance " and the movie made from Carrie Fischer's " Postcards

from the Edge " did a great deal to help me understand the process. Perhaps

these things don't count as spritual gifts, but they were all things that

didn't effect me the first time I read them, but snapped into focus when I

needed them.

 

My gift has always been the ability to sense other people's emotions, often

to a harmful degree. During the rougher parts of my path, I occaisionally

wished that I could shut this down, as I had so many other aspects of my

character. I never did figure out how, which I consider to be to my

advantage. The thing is, I don't know if I would have been able to get it

back. Now that I'm in better shape, it's a useful gift again.

 

I can't say specifically if grounding exercises would be helpful, although I

certainly reccomend them. It's just that in my personal experience, it took

me several years of work before I noticed their effect. I don't think that

this was anything in the nature of the exercises, I just wasn't ready to

" Get it. " My feeling is that it depends on where you are on your particular

journey.

 

I'm totally guessing here, so apply however many grains of salt seem

appropriate, but it appears to me that you're unwanted OOB experiances seem

to be your bodymind's use of a escape mechanism that has been successful in

the past. The Bodymind is wise, but sometimes when it gets an idea into its

head(?), it hard to get it out. Perhaps it would be useful to examine those

incidents that trigger these responses. Perhaps, it's more a problem with

your perception of those situations that is creating a problem than a gift

that should (if indeed it is possible) be put on hold.

 

Hope this helps rather than muddying the water,

 

Ray

 

 

>DBurke222

>

>

>Re: A Quote

>Mon, 22 May 2000 14:30:59 EDT

>

>In a message dated 05/22/2000 2:10:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>rayhuntermt writes:

>

><< I'd go along with that. Most coping strategies, no matter how ultimately

> destructive, start out as fairly appropriate responses. There are times

>when

> the response becomes the problem, however. >>

>

>So, in essence, we have to learn to use appropriately what once was a

>God-given saving grace, i.e. for me, leaving my body often as a child

>allowed

>me to cope, build my imagination and experience phenomenal spirituality as

>a

>young child. However, as an adult, when I feel threatened I take OOB trips

>without intending to! At present I am working on becoming better grounded

>and utilizing Reiki and Yoga to assist me with this. I have asked through

>prayer, that my spiritual gifts be put on hold until I can maintain balance

>as I journey forward. Does this make sense???

>

>In God's love,

>Deb

 

______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Ray and all,

 

As you can see, I am enjoying this discourse & have responded to various

parts of your last post:

 

In a message dated 05/22/2000 5:59:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

rayhuntermt writes:

 

<< My gift has always been the ability to sense other people's emotions,

often

to a harmful degree... I never did figure out how, which I consider to be to

my

advantage. The thing is, I don't know if I would have been able to get it

back. Now that I'm in better shape, it's a useful gift again.>>

 

I am highly sensitive to other's emotions as well, and I have referred to my

telepathic skills. I see myself as an " empath " also, for better or worse! I

had a period of time recently where I was hearing others' prayers, both

well-intended and desperately sent up (without good intention), so I sought

out help to temporarily stop this, that I may gain better grounding and allow

only positive influence into my life, both internally and externally. I have

had great success with this. (By the way, I use a prayer to Archangel

Michael that was sent through a Reiki Master. I'll share it with anyone who

is interested.)

 

<>

 

For me, Reiki, Yoga, Chiropractic and healthy eating are essential to helping

me stay grounded.

 

<<...it appears to me that you're unwanted OOB experiances seem

to be your bodymind's use of an escape mechanism that has been successful in

the past. The Bodymind is wise, but sometimes when it gets an idea into its

head(?), it hard to get it out. Perhaps it would be useful to examine those

incidents that trigger these responses. Perhaps, it's more a problem with

your perception of those situations that is creating a problem than a gift

that should (if indeed it is possible) be put on hold. >>

 

I know why I go OOB: I experienced a highly abusive young childhood and I

live with post-traumatic stress. When something in present-day life reminds

me of my painful past, the human response of " fight or flight " applies: I

flee from my own body!! I meditate and pray on this. I am presently

recuperating from a hysterectomy which allowed for many memories to surface

for healing. If ever any of you would like to send long-distance Reiki

healing on this, I would welcome it! I have climbed mountains in my life's

journey thus far, but still remain somewhat wounded. I pray for and have

every intention of becoming truly and completely healed. In turn, I have

begun healing others. This life has proved to be rich and rewarding!

 

In God's love,

Debbie

PS Ray: your e-mail address has " huntermt " within it. Is that a reference

to Hunter Mountain in New York? We have skied there!

[Guest guest]

>I am highly sensitive to other's emotions as well, and I have referred to

>my

>telepathic skills. I see myself as an " empath " also, for better or worse!

 

Perhaps you can help me with something. As an empath, how do you tell if an

emotion that you're sensing is external or internal? I often sense negative

emotions around me, which often send me in the same direction. What I'm

trying to learn is if I am truely picking up their emotions or if I'm

projecting my own.

>

>For me, Reiki, Yoga, Chiropractic and healthy eating are essential to

>helping

>me stay grounded.

 

The problems that I've experienced with my neck have made me well aquainted

with Chiro. I've been doing Qui Gong for a couple of years, which has helped

wonderfully.

 

>

>I know why I go OOB: I experienced a highly abusive young childhood and I

>live with post-traumatic stress. When something in present-day life

>reminds

>me of my painful past, the human response of " fight or flight " applies: I

>flee from my own body!!

 

I've never made it out of body, but a combination of events had me in a

state several years ago where I was entering dissociative states fairly

often. I can't help but wonder if that's the intial stage of OOB.

 

> I am presently

>recuperating from a hysterectomy which allowed for many memories to surface

>for healing. (snip) In turn, I have

>begun healing others.

 

You're very wise. My dificulties have taught me that times when I need

healing are excellent opportunities to learn to heal others. That's why

Alcoholics Anonymous is so effective, despite basic flaws in their program.

At least you're always dealing with someone who has actually been there.

 

>If ever any of you would like to send long-distance Reiki

>healing on this, I would welcome it! I have climbed mountains in my life's

>journey thus far, but still remain somewhat wounded.

 

We're all wounded to some degree. As Indiana Jones once said, " It ain't the

years, it's the milage. " Most of us here are walking some sort of healing

path. It sounds to me like you have already figured it out, but I'll mention

it anyway. Progress, not perfection.

 

I wish you well on your path.

 

>PS Ray: your e-mail address has " huntermt " within it. Is that a reference

>to Hunter Mountain in New York? We have skied there!

 

No, never been there. I'm from the Chicago area. The MT is for massage

therapist.

 

 

Ray

______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 05/23/2000 6:33:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

rayhuntermt writes:

 

<< Perhaps you can help me with something. As an empath, how do you tell if

an

emotion that you're sensing is external or internal? I often sense negative

emotions around me, which often send me in the same direction. What I'm

trying to learn is if I am truely picking up their emotions or if I'm

projecting my own. >>

 

Ray & others following this discourse:

 

Peter recently wrote of discernment. This is tough to learn, but so

essential. I certainly do not have it mastered. I'm not sure anyone is able

to discern with 100% accuracy. I will tell you, from personal experience, I

" sense " the location of the message. i.e. where in my brain it is coming

from. Picture this: your brain as an internal movie projector. For me, if

the message is coming from the right side of the brain it is internal, from

the left side of the brain it is external. This however, is based on no

scientific anything, just my personal experience. I used to put tremendous

energy into tracking the source of my thoughts: i.e. internal or external

and if external, from who. I have since decided that putting energy into

tracking the source is a misuse of my energy. Instead I pray for positivity.

When ideas come to me, I ask myself how valid and positive are they? If

they are positive and test well within my heart, I go with it. Again, this

is personal experience only.

 

In God's love,

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Interesting. I suspect that I'm some distance from the point where I'll be

able to make that discinction. It'll come, in its time.

 

I do have a though on negative energy. In my experience, I've enjoyed a

great deal of success in altering my perception of negative events. For

instance, my neck injury really dragged me down until a paper I was writing

for school taught me that this was a chance for me to learn about the

healing process from the inside, as it were. My though here, is that this

could have easily generated a great deal of negative energy, but insight

helped me to morph the energy into something positive.

 

 

>DBurke222

>

>

>Re: A Quote

>Tue, 23 May 2000 18:53:12 EDT

>

>In a message dated 05/23/2000 6:33:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>rayhuntermt writes:

>

><< Perhaps you can help me with something. As an empath, how do you tell if

>an

> emotion that you're sensing is external or internal? I often sense

>negative

> emotions around me, which often send me in the same direction. What I'm

> trying to learn is if I am truely picking up their emotions or if I'm

> projecting my own. >>

>

>Ray & others following this discourse:

>

>Peter recently wrote of discernment. This is tough to learn, but so

>essential. I certainly do not have it mastered. I'm not sure anyone is

>able

>to discern with 100% accuracy. I will tell you, from personal experience,

>I

> " sense " the location of the message. i.e. where in my brain it is coming

>from. Picture this: your brain as an internal movie projector. For me,

>if

>the message is coming from the right side of the brain it is internal, from

>the left side of the brain it is external. This however, is based on no

>scientific anything, just my personal experience. I used to put tremendous

>energy into tracking the source of my thoughts: i.e. internal or external

>and if external, from who. I have since decided that putting energy into

>tracking the source is a misuse of my energy. Instead I pray for

>positivity.

> When ideas come to me, I ask myself how valid and positive are they? If

>they are positive and test well within my heart, I go with it. Again, this

>is personal experience only.

>

>In God's love,

>Debbie

 

______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/24/00 12:58:31 PM Central Daylight Time,

rayhuntermt writes:

 

<< My though here, is that this

could have easily generated a great deal of negative energy, but insight

helped me to morph the energy into something positive. >>

 

You are right on! It is the reaction of our mind that determines how are

affected by events. Also you might find that Insight Meditation (Vipassana)

is helpful in general - regarding being empathetic and other things. By

getting to know yourself better - you will learn to distinguish between your

'stuff' and other people's. This is becuase you will come to know your own

self and stuff so well - it is glaringly obvious when 'new' things appear on

the emotional/mental scene.

 

If we can understand our own mind better (through insight meditation or

other disciplines) - then we will naturally be able to understand the reality

of things better. And therefore be less affected negatively by events and

people.

 

Insight Meditation is from a Buddhist background. Vipassana is the type of

meditation the Buddha was doing when he reached Enlightenment. But to

practice vipassana meditation requires no particular religious philosophy. No

prayers to any god are said. It is strictly a personal practice of getting to

know yourself. There are vipassana groups in most major cities - and you can

get meditation instruction there. Insight meditation is not a cult nor a

religion and pushes no philosophy in particular. (unlike some other

well-known for-profit based 'meditation' groups). If you cannot get to (or do

not care to) attend a group - try this book: " The Art of Living: Vipassana

Meditation as taught by Goenka " by William Hart.

 

I am an empath - I have walked this path myself. Good luck!

diana