Healing w or w/o permission

[Guest guest]

Ellie:

 

I can certainly feel your pain, and understand your need to fix, but it is

important for you to pull your energy back into yourself and take care of

business inside before you start scattering yourself to the four winds worrying

about others. You have a lot of grief, and it is weighing on your chest,

causing

you to have feelings of smothering and fear. First things first, be where you

are

and find someone who can help you sort through your grief... it is deep and

long,

so take your time with it and accept that it is natural not only to experience

it

but to process through it and release it.

 

This is not to say that you will not be concerned, or that you can live an

example

or offer support where it is needed, but you have already complained of being

ill,

having trouble sleeping, and various other complaints... so your most vital goal

at present should be to work on yourself *first*.

 

You can't give what you don't have. If you are exhausted and anxious you can't

transmit love and peace to others in the best way. Feed yourself. Love

yourself. Accept yourself. Learn to breathe. I know this sounds simplistic,

but

if you change, the world around you will begin to change as well. After all,

the

only thing you have control over is yourself, not anyone else or their lives and

decisions.

 

Make a choice today to love and take care of yourself, and say a deep and

heartfelt prayer for all those that you love. Once you say that prayer, LET GO

of

them. It is impossible for the universe to do its work if we keep holding the

reins, and we have very limited perspective of what is actually going on, only

what we perceive from where we stand.

 

This is what we have been talking about, the difference between assisting people

and fixing people. You can't fix people, and most people do not want to be

fixed... we can only repair ourselves, and offer support to others as they do

the

same. And if they refuse it, that is the limit to what we can do for them,

outside of prayer (and I mean by prayer, praying accepting, praying releasing,

praying for the highest good, which might not align with what we want).

 

Control is a product of the ego, and though the ego in its highest state is the

home of healthy self-esteem, when it becomes an overbearing part of our nature

it

can creep all over every aspect of our lives like kudzu and mutate our

relationships into codependency and other unbalanced forms that are harder to

undo

than to create. It causes us to dwell in guilt and anger instead of forgiving

ourselves and others. We grasp tighter and tighter, and though our grip is

painful, we imagine that letting go will be more so.

 

Let go, let go, and let your higher power handle it. You have enough in your

hands, learning and being who you need to be. You don't control everything, and

you don't need to take responsibility for everything. That should be a relief

for

you!

 

GRANDMABEAR712 wrote:

 

> Florie,

> I do agree with you on everything you said but it is so hard to sit back and

> watch them harm themselves. Like I said in another post I have 6 children and

I

> sit back and watch them do things that I want to put my 2 cents into but

> don't. Then in 1973 I lost my son (at age 13) in a drowning. My Father was

there

> watching him and my other children but I saw Greg last and told him to go in

the

> house with his grandfather. He didn't. The police came for me later and I had

to

> go identify his body. Now I wish I had taken him with me. There is so much

guilt

> over so many things in my life. Sometime I think I've worried myself into

being

> so sick. If that's possible? My parents death! My son's! My husband committing

> suicide! My friend dying! My sister being an

> alcoholic! I feel like the weight of the world is on my shoulders. Can you

help

> to relieve this? You and all the other are so nice and I do want help, believe

> me I do.

> Thanks for your kindness, Ellie

 

--

Blessings,

Crow

" Look for Rainbows in the Darkness "

--

---

Rev. Caroline Gutierrez Abreu, BS, RN, CHTP/I, CRMT, CH

AIM: CaroCrow

http://www.geocities.com/nrgbalance

 

" We see things not as they are but as we are. " The Talmud

 

" We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we

created them. " Albert Einstein

 

A wise person learns by the experience of others. An ordinary person learns by

his

or her own experience. A fool learns by nobody's experience.

 

" It's not where you go, but what you see that makes life a pilgrimage. " Carolyn

Scott Kortge

 

Kurt Vonnegut:

 

" Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and

cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the

outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There

is only one rule I know of, babies... you've got to be kind. " (God Bless You,

Mr.

Rosewater)

[Guest guest]

I went through watching someone I loved drop into heroin addiction also and

now I wished I had tried to do something to help because that person is

beyond help now. They are dead. Maybe if I tried she would be here now. You

just never know. Try to help! That is cold not to even try and just watch

them fade away.

Ellie

[Guest guest]

I, too, feel an eavesdropper in amongst the

knowledgeable. I joined this group to learn more about

body, spirit and mind. I am but a layperson with

intense curiousity.

 

I, however, feel an urge to reply to the post

regarding healing - w or w/o permission.

 

As with anything in this world of ours, I feel that

no-one has the right to force anything upon anyone who

does not desire it. Whether it be religion/belief

patterns; Telemall Shopping; drugs; sex or healing,

for that matter. We can only hope and pray that our

person in question makes their own choices and that

everything turns out okay as result. Even though we

may not agree with their eventual decision, if we love

that person, we should, at the very least, respect

their choice.

 

Unfortuneately, I am speaking from a negative point of

view. From which I am currently watching a dear friend

slip into the penance of a heroin addiction. Even

though I love this person dearly, I understand that

they are an adult and can make their own choices, and

I can only hope that their " decision " changes.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want ANYTHING forced upon me

(that I did not ask for or want), so I must respect

that wish in others.

 

In peace,

 

S.

 

___________________________

http://sport..au - Australia & NZ Sports

- Get the latest on the Olympics

[Guest guest]

Florie,

I do agree with you on everything you said but it is so hard to sit back and

watch them harm themselves. Like I said in another post I have 6 children and

I sit back and watch them do things that I want to put my 2 cents into but

don't. Then in 1973 I lost my son (at age 13) in a drowning. My Father was

there watching him and my other children but I saw Greg last and told him to

go in the house with his grandfather. He didn't. The police came for me later

and I had to go identify his body. Now I wish I had taken him with me. There

is so much guilt over so many things in my life. Sometime I think I've

worried myself into being so sick. If that's possible? My parents death! My

son's! My husband committing suicide! My friend dying! My sister being an

alcoholic! I feel like the weight of the world is on my shoulders. Can you

help to relieve this? You and all the other are so nice and I do want help,

believe me I do.

Thanks for your kindness, Ellie

[Guest guest]

-

" Sonya White " <d_izzie1

 

Sunday, October 01, 2000 11:13 AM

Re: Healing w or w/o permission

 

Dear Sonya;

 

Thank you for your comments. They really made me think about my original

statements and wonder if I expressed them correctly or was simply

misinformed.

 

>

> As with anything in this world of ours, I feel that

> no-one has the right to force anything upon anyone who

> does not desire it. Whether it be religion/belief

> patterns; Telemall Shopping; drugs; sex or healing,

> for that matter. We can only hope and pray that our

> person in question makes their own choices and that

> everything turns out okay as result. Even though we

> may not agree with their eventual decision, if we love

> that person, we should, at the very least, respect

> their choice.

>

I agree with you completely about the above. Respecting a person's choice

should always be paramount.

>

> Personally, I wouldn't want ANYTHING forced upon me

> (that I did not ask for or want), so I must respect

> that wish in others.

>

I guess this is where I'm confused. Where do we draw the line? Am I

forcing my respect upon you by telling you that I concur with the majority

of your post? Would I have to wait for you to say " Let's be friends " before

I feel good wishes for you? Re-reading this post, I see that it could be

taken as contentious or confrontative. Please understand that it is meant

with respect and with a genuine wish for clarification...please bear with me

if my posts sound silly at times. This is all so new and exciting to me

that I think I've jumped in over my head and now need some help putting

things in their proper perspective. I'll look forward to learning more

about this and to reading more of your thoughts on the matter.

 

Thank you.

 

Florie

[Guest guest]

Dear Florie (and all),

 

Firstly, I would like to apologise for sounding

contentious. I really didn't intend for my post to

sound that way. Personally, I felt moved by the topic

of " permission " to " give/send " healing.

 

I suppose we can send our well wishes and 'healing

powers' out to those we feel may need them. But it's

just like this (or any) group - Mr X can send a

message out, it just depends on what we all choose to

do with that message (i.e. read, delete or engulf its

being and processes). Just as it depends on the person

who we are sending our 'healing' to and what they

choose to do with it.

 

In response to your question Florie (where do we draw

the line?), well, for me: I'm still finding that out,

no matter how *fun* it is to cross the " line " .

 

I must admit that you have provoked thought inside me

that has created confusion as well. I know what I like

and don't like, but does that mean I treat others the

same way??? No matter what that 'way' is? Does that

mean I am forcing my own (no matter how flimsy)

beliefs upon them in doing this?

 

I suppose (deep down) I'm a firm believer in the old

rule " treat others how you wish to be treated " .

 

I apologise again for my previous post - I honestly

did not mean to upset anyone.

 

s.

 

___________________________

http://sport..au - Australia & NZ Sports

- Get the latest on the Olympics

[Guest guest]

-

" Sonya White " <d_izzie1

 

Sunday, October 01, 2000 2:22 PM

Re: Healing w or w/o permission

 

 

>

> Firstly, I would like to apologise for sounding

> contentious. I really didn't intend for my post to

> sound that way. Personally, I felt moved by the topic

> of " permission " to " give/send " healing.

>

Dear Sonya--

 

Please, please do not apologise! You were not at all contentious. Your

post was really thought-provoking and I appreciated the input. I was

apologising because I thought that *my* post could be construed that way. I

guess we can both feel more comfortable with each other's styles now and not

have to worry as much about offending the other. Good...because I think

that you have a great deal to share, and I look forward to learning from

you.

>

>

> I suppose (deep down) I'm a firm believer in the old

> rule " treat others how you wish to be treated " .

>

That is probably the best advice. I think that if we remember that rule

while following our instincts to do the best we can for each other, than we

all will be in good shape.

>

Thanks for the interesting " food for thought " .

 

Be well,

 

Florie

[Guest guest]

-

<GRANDMABEAR712

 

Sunday, October 01, 2000 2:39 PM

Re: Healing w or w/o permission

 

 

> I went through watching someone I loved drop into heroin addiction also

and

> now I wished I had tried to do something to help because that person is

> beyond help now. They are dead. Maybe if I tried she would be here now.

You

> just never know. Try to help! That is cold not to even try and just watch

> them fade away.

> Ellie

>

Dear Ellie;

 

STOP BLAMING YOURSELF RIGHT NOW! You lost someone you loved and I'm sorry.

There is nothing that you could have done to change this person until she

was ready to make the change in herself. Please accept my sympathies on

your loss and know (really know) that you did the very best that you could

just by loving her...please know that *she* knows this, too.

 

It's difficult to watch the people we love make mistakes. It's painful to

witness others making harmful choices. However, there is only *so much*

that any one person can do for another. I think that the debate about

whether to offer healing energy without permission to a person with a

physical dis-ease is somewhat different than deciding how much to attempt to

help someone who has chosen to become a substance abuser. While there are

dis-eases of mind and body and spirit, the approaches, I think sometimes

are quite different.

 

People have free will over what they choose to put into their bodies.

Substance abusers know that they are poisoning themselves, yet they still

chose to do this. If they are very lucky, they will live long enough to

come to the realization that they have made poor choices and that they can

live healthier, more fulfilling lives without abusing substances. All of

the love that a parent has for a child, a wife for a husband, a friend for

another friend can not free someone from these bonds until the person wants

to free him/herself. All you can do is offer your love and support. The

difficulty is that sometimes showing this love requires us to be strong

enough to resist manipulation into co-dependency.

 

I've watched people I loved very much die because of alcohol and drug

problems. I've watched other people I love realize that they could choose

to live clean healthy lives. What was the difference between them? Could I

have helped the people who died to live instead? Could I have influenced

the people who chose to live? I don't think that is the case. As long as

there is free will and respect for other's choices, we can only go *so far*

in interfering in another's life...even though we may feel with our whole

hearts that we are doing what is best for the other person.

 

This brings us back to the discussion that Sonya and I have just begun. How

do you know where that " invisible line " in the sand really is? Is it

different for each person? How does the 'with or without permission'

discussion change when the dis-ease is drug or alcohol addiction rather than

emphysema or arthritis? *Is* there a difference? How can you offer your

best to someone who has chosen a different path in life? These are some

hard questions. Finding the answers are even harder.

 

Welcoming feedback...

 

Florie

[Guest guest]

I went through watching someone I loved drop into

heroin addiction also and <BR>

now I wished I had tried to do something to help

because that person is <BR>

beyond help now. They are dead. Maybe if I tried she

would be here now. You <BR>

just never know. Try to help! That is cold not to even

try and just watch <BR>

them fade away.<BR>

Ellie<BR>

 

 

 

Dearest Ellie,

 

My deepest sympathies are extended to you for your

loss, and I am so sorry if I sound cold with my

previous post, but with my dear friend, there is only

so far I can go without dragging her *kicking and

screaming* into rehab before she is ready to go

herself.

 

She will heal and recover in time (I feel that from

her soul), and, when she is ready, allow the

junkie-spirit to depart. Unfortuneately, that's the

way with addiction - you can offer anyone advice and

support and love, but when it comes to the final

healing, well, they need to be willing and ready for

it themselves - none of us have the power to create

this desire with an addict.

 

Florie said not to blame yourself, and why should you?

You obviously weren't the one injecting your beloved

with heroin. I'm quite sure you loved this person, and

still do, and, even though it doesn't seem enough, it

is sometimes all we can offer...

 

S.

 

___________________________

http://sport..au - Australia & NZ Sports

- Get the latest on the Olympics

[Guest guest]

Dear Ellie;

 

Your post made me cry. You have endured a great deal of pain in your life

and I'm sorry that you have had to go through it. A philosopher once said

this: " Whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger " . Do you realize how

very strong you are, Ellie? Your strength and spirit come through loud and

clear with every message. It clearly says that you are a survivor.

 

It's unfortunate, but we all reach a place where we are either survivors, or

are survived by others. You have lost many people in your life. You are

still here. Why is that? Do you think it is just a coincidence, or part of

a greater plan?

 

I think, Ellie, that you have a great deal of wisdom to share with others.

Your experiences of enduring loss and pain, of rebounding from illness to

health (and you're doing that a little more every day, aren't you?) all have

a meaning. What is it that you have learned from your journey that you can

teach to others? Please teach it to me. I would be honored to receive some

of your wisdom, for you have truly " lived life " and continue to do so each

day.

 

I thought that Sonya's response to your post was beautiful and

compassionate. She was able to " step outside " of her own pain (and, as you

know all too well, watching a friend or loved one harm themselves is

sometimes more painful than if you, yourself were the one suffering) to

offer you comfort. That was a real gift to you. Accepting her good

feelings will be *your* gift back to Sonya. There are many caring people

here who wish you well. We are so lucky to live in a society where we can

feel such kinship with people we may never meet face to face, yet sometimes

these people become as close to us as if they were family. I think they

*are* a family of a different kind.

 

You asked if I thought that you could have worried yourself sick. I think

you know the answer to that, don't you? Since every action has an equal and

opposite reaction, what does that tell you?? If you can make yourself sick,

you can make yourself well again...and I think that you have already taken

several positive steps toward wholeness and wellness. It's a bumpy road,

but it won't kill you--it *will*, however, make you stronger with each new

step and each new lesson. Please continue to share your learnings with us.

There are many who will benefit from your wisdom.

 

Thank you.

 

Florie

 

PS: Don't forget to let us know how well you sleep tonight!!! That fresh

cool air from your breathing machine is helping your body to heal, right?

Right!!!

[Guest guest]

Ellie, first of all, it is quite possible to worry yourself into disease. My

observation has been that trying to take responsibility for the world is one

of the more efficient ways.

 

I am of the opinion that there are basically two mechanisms that drive

events. Cause and Effect, we all pretty much understand. The other one, Sh*t

Happens, is considerably more slippery. My observation is that a great deal

of the world's unhappiness is caused by mis-intrepetation of these

mechanisms.

 

For one thing, different participants in an event may be influenced by

different mechanisms. For instance, a drunk carreening down the road toward

you is clearly being effected by Cause and Effect. If he should happen to

cross your path, you're being effected by Sh*t Happens since you have no

control over his actions.

 

My point is that your son's death was more the result of his not following

your instruction than your not taking him with you. You didn't state the

reasons why you feel guilty about the other events, but it seems unlikely to

me that you were the cause of them.

 

Perhaps it might be helpful to examine these events with an eye toward

whether you could reasonibly have prevented them. Try to avoid the

temptation to construct scenarios that require alteration of the laws of

chance. For instance, a friend of mine once blamed an automobile accident on

her deciding to go to the bathroom, which caused her to hit the intersection

where she had the accident a few minutes later, somehow causing the

accident. In my opinion, this kind of second-guessing is damaging.

 

Also important is self-forgivness. We all have things in our past that we

wish hadn't happened. Guilt can be functional, or it can become

pathological. When guilt prevents us from repeating a mistake, it is

functional. If have progressed to the point where you are in no danger of

repeating it, but are still beating yourself up over it, it's not so

functional. One way to examine guilt is to ask yourself whether you would

forgive the other person if the situation were reversed. If so, let it go.

 

Please accept these suggestions in the spirit they were intended. They are

just some things that I have noticed while working my way through some of my

guilt, both real and imagined. Bear in mind that your milage may vary. We

all have different paths.

 

I wish you peace with yourself,

Ray

>GRANDMABEAR712

>

>

>Re: Healing w or w/o permission

>Sun, 1 Oct 2000 16:43:13 EDT

>

>Florie,

>I do agree with you on everything you said but it is so hard to sit back

>and

>watch them harm themselves. Like I said in another post I have 6 children

>and

>I sit back and watch them do things that I want to put my 2 cents into but

>don't. Then in 1973 I lost my son (at age 13) in a drowning. My Father was

>there watching him and my other children but I saw Greg last and told him

>to

>go in the house with his grandfather. He didn't. The police came for me

>later

>and I had to go identify his body. Now I wish I had taken him with me.

>There

>is so much guilt over so many things in my life. Sometime I think I've

>worried myself into being so sick. If that's possible? My parents death! My

>son's! My husband committing suicide! My friend dying! My sister being an

>alcoholic! I feel like the weight of the world is on my shoulders. Can you

>help to relieve this? You and all the other are so nice and I do want help,

>believe me I do.

>Thanks for your kindness, Ellie

>

 

_______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

 

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

http://profiles.msn.com.

[Guest guest]

caroline, can i send your words to a couple of my friends that need to hear

them? i have been saying the same things basically but am not so good at

articulating it as you are.

-

Caroline Abreu <crow

 

Sunday, October 01, 2000 3:13 AM

Re: Healing w or w/o permission

 

 

> Ellie:

>

> I can certainly feel your pain, and understand your need to fix, but it is

> important for you to pull your energy back into yourself and take care of

> business inside before you start scattering yourself to the four winds

worrying

> about others. You have a lot of grief, and it is weighing on your chest,

causing

> you to have feelings of smothering and fear. First things first, be where

you are

> and find someone who can help you sort through your grief... it is deep

and long,

> so take your time with it and accept that it is natural not only to

experience it

> but to process through it and release it.

>

> This is not to say that you will not be concerned, or that you can live an

example

> or offer support where it is needed, but you have already complained of

being ill,

> having trouble sleeping, and various other complaints... so your most

vital goal

> at present should be to work on yourself *first*.

>

> You can't give what you don't have. If you are exhausted and anxious you

can't

> transmit love and peace to others in the best way. Feed yourself. Love

> yourself. Accept yourself. Learn to breathe. I know this sounds

simplistic, but

> if you change, the world around you will begin to change as well. After

all, the

> only thing you have control over is yourself, not anyone else or their

lives and

> decisions.

>

> Make a choice today to love and take care of yourself, and say a deep and

> heartfelt prayer for all those that you love. Once you say that prayer,

LET GO of

> them. It is impossible for the universe to do its work if we keep holding

the

> reins, and we have very limited perspective of what is actually going on,

only

> what we perceive from where we stand.

>

> This is what we have been talking about, the difference between assisting

people

> and fixing people. You can't fix people, and most people do not want to

be

> fixed... we can only repair ourselves, and offer support to others as they

do the

> same. And if they refuse it, that is the limit to what we can do for

them,

> outside of prayer (and I mean by prayer, praying accepting, praying

releasing,

> praying for the highest good, which might not align with what we want).

>

> Control is a product of the ego, and though the ego in its highest state

is the

> home of healthy self-esteem, when it becomes an overbearing part of our

nature it

> can creep all over every aspect of our lives like kudzu and mutate our

> relationships into codependency and other unbalanced forms that are harder

to undo

> than to create. It causes us to dwell in guilt and anger instead of

forgiving

> ourselves and others. We grasp tighter and tighter, and though our grip

is

> painful, we imagine that letting go will be more so.

>

> Let go, let go, and let your higher power handle it. You have enough in

your

> hands, learning and being who you need to be. You don't control

everything, and

> you don't need to take responsibility for everything. That should be a

relief for

> you!

>

> GRANDMABEAR712 wrote:

>

> > Florie,

> > I do agree with you on everything you said but it is so hard to sit back

and

> > watch them harm themselves. Like I said in another post I have 6

children and I

> > sit back and watch them do things that I want to put my 2 cents into but

> > don't. Then in 1973 I lost my son (at age 13) in a drowning. My Father

was there

> > watching him and my other children but I saw Greg last and told him to

go in the

> > house with his grandfather. He didn't. The police came for me later and

I had to

> > go identify his body. Now I wish I had taken him with me. There is so

much guilt

> > over so many things in my life. Sometime I think I've worried myself

into being

> > so sick. If that's possible? My parents death! My son's! My husband

committing

> > suicide! My friend dying! My sister being an

> > alcoholic! I feel like the weight of the world is on my shoulders. Can

you help

> > to relieve this? You and all the other are so nice and I do want help,

believe

> > me I do.

> > Thanks for your kindness, Ellie

>

> --

> Blessings,

> Crow

> " Look for Rainbows in the Darkness "

> --

> ---

> Rev. Caroline Gutierrez Abreu, BS, RN, CHTP/I, CRMT, CH

> AIM: CaroCrow

> http://www.geocities.com/nrgbalance

>

> " We see things not as they are but as we are. " The Talmud

>

> " We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when

we

> created them. " Albert Einstein

>

> A wise person learns by the experience of others. An ordinary person

learns by his

> or her own experience. A fool learns by nobody's experience.

>

> " It's not where you go, but what you see that makes life a pilgrimage. "

Carolyn

> Scott Kortge

>

> Kurt Vonnegut:

>

> " Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and

> cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the

> outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There

> is only one rule I know of, babies... you've got to be kind. " (God Bless

You, Mr.

> Rosewater)

>

>

>

>

> ****************************************

> Visit the community page:

> For administrative problems -owner

> To , -

>

> All messages, files and archives of this forum are copyright of the

group and the individual authors.

>

>

[Guest guest]

To Sonya> The person in dire straights,ie heroine addict does not have

the capacity to " ask " for help....so why would you want to withold

anything that could possibly help your friend " see the light " and find

healing? I thank God for all those souls seen and unseen that have

helped me find my way even when I didnt know how to ask for help.

 

 

http://community.webtv.net/Talks-withtrees/PrayerChain

[Guest guest]

Dear Talks-withtrees,

 

Thank-you for your post and I understand (completely) your

point of view in my situation. I think of my friend when I

am 'meditating' (if it can be called that), and hope the

Universe is listening. I also feel that she is uncapable of

asking for help, but I offer an ear and a shoulder when

things get bad for her. I try to take her mind off the

" issue " by talking about and doing other things.

 

I feel (within me) that the Universe is offering her a

lesson, and one that only she can learn. I love her dearly

and want the best for her, but she needs to feel that

inside herself for her " healing " to take place.

 

I think that I have ignited the impression that I am some

heartless b*tch, and I apologise if I have come across this

way, but in this situation, we (my friends) keep a close on

her and offer our love and support as much as we can -

without smothering her.

 

In peace,

 

S.

 

___________________________

http://clubs..au - Clubs

- Join a club or build your own!

[Guest guest]

Sonya,

I want to tell you I'm sorry. I answered that from my head not my heart. You

see I know where your friends head is right now. I've been through it all

before and I remembered how I wished someone had tried to talk to me then,

but it wouldn't have mattered if they did because I wouldn't have listened

just like your friend isn't.

 

I thought I knew it all. I thought I could control it, but I couldn't. She

can't either. Trouble is you realize that to late. I went though hell. It

took me a long time to get out of all that. Do you know what it's like to see

a friend die in front of you from a drug overdose? For friend's to die of

AIDS? No one knows what its like unless you've been there. I jumped on you

because of my memories. I am very sorry. Please forgive me.

 

Be there for her she will need someone to help her pick up the pieces when

she comes out of this. I do hope she realizes this soon.

 

Peace be with you,

Ellie

[Guest guest]

Dear Sonya,

LOL, I did not think of you as a heartless bi**h at all. I

respect everyone's opinion on this list, as we have all walked down

different avenues, twists and turns, and each of us has a unique

perspective. We also learn that we reap the fruit of our belief systems,

both the bitter and the sweet.

 

 

http://community.webtv.net/Talks-withtrees/PrayerChain

[Guest guest]

Dearest Ellie,

 

Please do not apologise or ask for my forgiveness. I feel

the pain you hold on to and I wish and hope for all

goodness and light to return to your HUGE heart.

 

It is very painful to watch this entrapment before my very

eyes and I hope that I never see the pain you have endured,

not for my own sake (or sanity), but that it will be a

testimony that I, among the caring people on this list,

have learned from your experiences and we are able to

choose the right path for us.

 

I feel for you, Ellie, I honestly do. I wish such a loving

person never has to succumb to pain and hurt. But imagine

the life lessons and the education you have received in

your years upon this planet. Imagine being able to pass

your information and experiences on to others, as you have

done in this group.

 

Imagine that one person reads your heart breaking story,

and chooses another path just because of you. One person,

Ellie, one person will read your story and their life path

will change forever. I think that you have made a wonderful

" life teacher " to me so far. And I thank you from the

depths of my heart, as I hope I am able to learn more from

you - and not just the negative stuff.

 

I would love to have your compassion and strength. And,

Ellie, you are strong, in that you can openly discuss your

life with us here - regardless of the cloth of anonymity

that our nick names and faceless words disclose.

 

As for forgiveness, Ellie? Ask it from yourself. Everyone

f**ks up all the time (sorry if that offends, but I think

it best describes our mistakes), and if we can't forgive or

love ourselves enough to forgive, how can we expect that

" treat " from others?

 

Ellie, your heart shines of warmth and, as much as I am

moved to keep rambling on for the rest of the night and

take up even MORE room here, accept yourself as who you

are, and if you can't, well ... change what you don't like.

If you don't like something enough, you WILL change it. ie:

your addictions, they were hurting you and others, so you

changed the behaviour. As painful as it was, it was

changed.

 

Use your strength and compassion and warmth to heal your

wounds and hope that you may offer an education to others.

 

With love and thanx,

 

S.

 

 

 

___________________________

http://clubs..au - Clubs

- Join a club or build your own!

[Guest guest]

Sonya,

Your words were so beautiful and kind that I started to cry. They were good

tears and happy tears. I would never want to hurt a soul, so when I knew I

hurt you by my words I was ashamed of myself.

I thank God everyday for getting me through alive from where I was. I've

always felt that He got me through it because He had work for me to do. I've

always felt if I could help some people to not go through what I did it would

be worth it. I have wanted to put what happened to me in a book but I'm not

to good in that category. Know any ghost writers out there?

Thank you all and my love to you all. My prayers are with all of you.

Ellie