Another question about sending healing with/without permission

[Guest guest]

Florie;

as in most things, timing is the key. I have found that repeated exposure to

new ideas is the key( I will give it about 16 attempts before abandoning the

endeavor). The dilemna, however, is how to present it without becoming a

pest. And, the answer is to get their permission.

The way I accomplish this is by saying " I don't want to become a pest, and

I know that at this time this is not something you want to consider. But I

feel very strongly about this and I know some people who have had tremendous

results using various modalities of therapy. So, with your permission, I

would like to periodically bring this up again. I want you to know that I

value our relationship above all else, and I don't want this to become a

barrier between us. So, if I start to say anything about other treatments,

and you don't want to here it, just raise your hand and we will go to other

topics. Just know that I love you and want the best for you. And I value our

friendship. "

I hope this can give you further opportunities to talk with her in the

future. You never know when the right time is without multiple attempts.

Love, peace and blessings.

Curtis

 

Richard M. Gray, Ph.D. and Florence Tomasulo Gray <florie

Tuesday, October 03, 2000 12:42 PM

Another question about sending healing with/without

permission

 

 

>I have a real need for advice. The situation is one of the main reasons

>that I searched for groups that discussed aspects of healing and bodywork

>(lucky for me that I found such a resourceful and positive group!).

>

>This is the situation:

>

>We have a neighbor who, when we first met her, was in remission from breast

>cancer. Last year, she was diagnosed with a tumor in her lung. She is

>receiving the best of traditional medical care (Sloan-Kettering in NYC),

and

>seems absolutely determined to beat this. She's a real fighter. We have

>offered her various support strategies to complement her medical care; all

>of which she has refused (Books and tapes from O. Carl Simonton, NLP

>interventions and positive visualizations, just to name a few). She has

>refused all of our offers of help and now seems rather more standoffish

than

>when we first met (she's a traditional suburban matron--we're just those

>strange folks who have wildflowers rather than grass for a front lawn).

>

>We pray for her healing often, but I would like to direct some intensive

>energy toward her. I don't want to violate her free will, but this is a

>person who is obviously fighting very hard to live--this is not someone who

>has decided that it is her time to go, she is being treated very

agressively

>and wants very much to survive. I would like to aid her in that battle.

>

>Where, in this particular case, is *the line*? I've tried to put myself in

>her shoes and feel that, if the situation were reversed, I would be happy

>that someone extended themselves and their energies to me in a time when I

>might not be otherwise thinking clearly enough to accept that offer. Is

>there some middle ground, perhaps; where I can help her without violating

>her free will?

>

>Advice, please? I'm absolutely torn between respecting her wishes and

>trying to do something constructive. Considering the amount of chemicals

>and radiation she is enduring, would some good wishes from across the

street

>really be adding to her burden? I will be waiting for some feedback and

tha

>nk the group in advance for their thoughtful replies.

>

>Florie

>

>

>

>****************************************

>Visit the community page:

>For administrative problems -owner

>To , -

>

>All messages, files and archives of this forum are copyright of the

group and the individual authors.

>

[Guest guest]

I do not sell MLM, and it works only if people can sense SINCERE caring

Curtis

 

Caroline Abreu <nrgbalance

Wednesday, October 04, 2000 4:57 AM

Re: Another question about sending healing with/without

permission

 

 

>Curtis:

>

>You must sell MLM products <LOL>

>

>It is that sort of constant presence of the sell that makes people crazy

>around Amway and insurance salesmen.

>

>But I grok where you're coming from, and if it works for you without folks

>running screaming down the street when they see you coming, then go for it

>;-)

>

>Crow

>

>

>----Original Message Follows----

> " Curtis Foster " <cfoster1

>

>

>Re: Another question about sending healing with/without

>permission

>Mon, 23 Feb 1998 07:27:48 -0600

>

>Florie;

>as in most things, timing is the key. I have found that repeated exposure

to

>new ideas is the key( I will give it about 16 attempts before abandoning

the

>endeavor). The dilemna, however, is how to present it without becoming a

>pest. And, the answer is to get their permission.

>The way I accomplish this is by saying " I don't want to become a pest, and

>I know that at this time this is not something you want to consider. But I

>feel very strongly about this and I know some people who have had

tremendous

>results using various modalities of therapy. So, with your permission, I

>would like to periodically bring this up again. I want you to know that I

>value our relationship above all else, and I don't want this to become a

>barrier between us. So, if I start to say anything about other treatments,

>and you don't want to here it, just raise your hand and we will go to other

>topics. Just know that I love you and want the best for you. And I value

our

>friendship. "

>I hope this can give you further opportunities to talk with her in the

>future. You never know when the right time is without multiple attempts.

>Love, peace and blessings.

>Curtis

>

> Rev. R. C. Abreu, BS, RN, CHTP/I, CRMT, CH

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Subtle Energy Techniques to Support Growth & Healing

> ~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/nrgbalance~~~~~~

>~~~SomaChi...the Balance you've been looking for...~~~

>

>

>

>

>

>

>_______________________

>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

>

>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

>http://profiles.msn.com.

>

>

>

>****************************************

>Visit the community page:

>For administrative problems -owner

>To , -

>

>All messages, files and archives of this forum are copyright of the

group and the individual authors.

>

[Guest guest]

Florie:

 

My honest feeling about this is that you should pray for her and let her go;

if she has refused your assistance politely but firmly in the past, but is

wary that you will continue to pelt her with advice, that may be why she is

avoiding you ;-)

 

In the larger scheme of things, we can see where depending on one system or

the other is certainly not a balanced way to approach wellness, but it is

greatly a matter of personal choice and faith. If she believes that the

allopathic system will help her, then that is what she needs. If she does

not believe what you have to offer her will be efficacious, it might not be.

 

I have felt very similarly as you do when I interact with my mother, who is

married to the allopathic system and I feel takes far too many pills, most

of which are counteracting the side effects of the others! In spite of years

of subtle and not-so-subtle offers to give her energy work, self hypnosis

tapes, flower remedies, massage, and several other complementary therapies

(even in the form of gift certificates for someone else to do the treatment)

she has refused. So, at an impasse, I have realized that her health is her

issue, not mine, and that the enmeshment between us prevents her from taking

my advice as anything but meddling. I try to be as silent as possible as she

litinizes her complaints and pray that whatever she needs will be provided

to her in such a way that she will feel comfortable accepting on some level.

I have to also bear in mind that she may be refusing to take these extra

steps because she has secondary gains involved with being " sick " and under a

doctor's care for her numerous intersecting problems. This was brought home

to me recently, when I told her about my diagnosis of OSA and possible need

for CPAP; she startled me by eagerly suggesting that she thinks she might

have that problem too, and that she would have her MD screen her for it (Why

on earth would anyone *want* sleep apnea?) <LOL>

 

Continue to be kind and objective with your neighbor, and leave the door

open; she knows where you are if she wants your help and will feel your good

wishes from across the street... just remember that what might feel

wonderful and nurturing to you might not to someone else who is not as aware

as you are.

 

Blessings,

Crow

" Look for Rainbows in the Darkness "

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

" Richard M. Gray, Ph.D. and Florence Tomasulo Gray "

<florie

 

 

Another question about sending healing with/without

permission

Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:46:00 -0400

 

I have a real need for advice. The situation is one of the main reasons

that I searched for groups that discussed aspects of healing and bodywork

(lucky for me that I found such a resourceful and positive group!).

 

This is the situation:

 

We have a neighbor who, when we first met her, was in remission from breast

cancer. Last year, she was diagnosed with a tumor in her lung. She is

receiving the best of traditional medical care (Sloan-Kettering in NYC), and

seems absolutely determined to beat this. She's a real fighter. We have

offered her various support strategies to complement her medical care; all

of which she has refused (Books and tapes from O. Carl Simonton, NLP

interventions and positive visualizations, just to name a few). She has

refused all of our offers of help and now seems rather more standoffish than

when we first met (she's a traditional suburban matron--we're just those

strange folks who have wildflowers rather than grass for a front lawn).

 

We pray for her healing often, but I would like to direct some intensive

energy toward her. I don't want to violate her free will, but this is a

person who is obviously fighting very hard to live--this is not someone who

has decided that it is her time to go, she is being treated very agressively

and wants very much to survive. I would like to aid her in that battle.

 

Where, in this particular case, is *the line*? I've tried to put myself in

her shoes and feel that, if the situation were reversed, I would be happy

that someone extended themselves and their energies to me in a time when I

might not be otherwise thinking clearly enough to accept that offer. Is

there some middle ground, perhaps; where I can help her without violating

her free will?

 

Advice, please? I'm absolutely torn between respecting her wishes and

trying to do something constructive. Considering the amount of chemicals

and radiation she is enduring, would some good wishes from across the street

really be adding to her burden? I will be waiting for some feedback and

thank the group in advance for their thoughtful replies.

 

Florie

 

 

Rev. R. C. Abreu, BS, RN, CHTP/I, CRMT, CH

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Subtle Energy Techniques to Support Growth & Healing

~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/nrgbalance~~~~~~

~~~SomaChi...the Balance you've been looking for...~~~

 

 

 

 

 

 

_______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

 

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

http://profiles.msn.com.

[Guest guest]

I have a real need for advice. The situation is one of the main reasons

that I searched for groups that discussed aspects of healing and bodywork

(lucky for me that I found such a resourceful and positive group!).

 

This is the situation:

 

We have a neighbor who, when we first met her, was in remission from breast

cancer. Last year, she was diagnosed with a tumor in her lung. She is

receiving the best of traditional medical care (Sloan-Kettering in NYC), and

seems absolutely determined to beat this. She's a real fighter. We have

offered her various support strategies to complement her medical care; all

of which she has refused (Books and tapes from O. Carl Simonton, NLP

interventions and positive visualizations, just to name a few). She has

refused all of our offers of help and now seems rather more standoffish than

when we first met (she's a traditional suburban matron--we're just those

strange folks who have wildflowers rather than grass for a front lawn).

 

We pray for her healing often, but I would like to direct some intensive

energy toward her. I don't want to violate her free will, but this is a

person who is obviously fighting very hard to live--this is not someone who

has decided that it is her time to go, she is being treated very agressively

and wants very much to survive. I would like to aid her in that battle.

 

Where, in this particular case, is *the line*? I've tried to put myself in

her shoes and feel that, if the situation were reversed, I would be happy

that someone extended themselves and their energies to me in a time when I

might not be otherwise thinking clearly enough to accept that offer. Is

there some middle ground, perhaps; where I can help her without violating

her free will?

 

Advice, please? I'm absolutely torn between respecting her wishes and

trying to do something constructive. Considering the amount of chemicals

and radiation she is enduring, would some good wishes from across the street

really be adding to her burden? I will be waiting for some feedback and tha

nk the group in advance for their thoughtful replies.

 

Florie

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I think I'm getting spoiled here--ask a question and get immediate

and wise advice. You know, it just *might* be a good idea for me to resign

as General Manager of the Universe, after all!!!

 

Appreciate the feedback and the smiles.

 

Be well,

 

Florie

-

" Caroline Abreu " <nrgbalance

 

Tuesday, October 03, 2000 3:12 PM

Re: Another question about sending healing with/without

permission

 

 

> Florie:

>

> My honest feeling about this is that you should pray for her and let her

go;

> if she has refused your assistance politely but firmly in the past, but is

> wary that you will continue to pelt her with advice, that may be why she

is

> avoiding you ;-)

>

> In the larger scheme of things, we can see where depending on one system

or

> the other is certainly not a balanced way to approach wellness, but it is

> greatly a matter of personal choice and faith. If she believes that the

> allopathic system will help her, then that is what she needs. If she does

> not believe what you have to offer her will be efficacious, it might not

be.

>

> I have felt very similarly as you do when I interact with my mother, who

is

> married to the allopathic system and I feel takes far too many pills, most

> of which are counteracting the side effects of the others! In spite of

years

> of subtle and not-so-subtle offers to give her energy work, self hypnosis

> tapes, flower remedies, massage, and several other complementary therapies

> (even in the form of gift certificates for someone else to do the

treatment)

> she has refused. So, at an impasse, I have realized that her health is her

> issue, not mine, and that the enmeshment between us prevents her from

taking

> my advice as anything but meddling. I try to be as silent as possible as

she

> litinizes her complaints and pray that whatever she needs will be provided

> to her in such a way that she will feel comfortable accepting on some

level.

> I have to also bear in mind that she may be refusing to take these extra

> steps because she has secondary gains involved with being " sick " and under

a

> doctor's care for her numerous intersecting problems. This was brought

home

> to me recently, when I told her about my diagnosis of OSA and possible

need

> for CPAP; she startled me by eagerly suggesting that she thinks she might

> have that problem too, and that she would have her MD screen her for it

(Why

> on earth would anyone *want* sleep apnea?) <LOL>

>

> Continue to be kind and objective with your neighbor, and leave the door

> open; she knows where you are if she wants your help and will feel your

good

> wishes from across the street... just remember that what might feel

> wonderful and nurturing to you might not to someone else who is not as

aware

> as you are.

>

> Blessings,

> Crow

> " Look for Rainbows in the Darkness "

>

>

[Guest guest]

Curtis:

 

You must sell MLM products <LOL>

 

It is that sort of constant presence of the sell that makes people crazy

around Amway and insurance salesmen.

 

But I grok where you're coming from, and if it works for you without folks

running screaming down the street when they see you coming, then go for it

;-)

 

Crow

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

" Curtis Foster " <cfoster1

 

 

Re: Another question about sending healing with/without

permission

Mon, 23 Feb 1998 07:27:48 -0600

 

Florie;

as in most things, timing is the key. I have found that repeated exposure to

new ideas is the key( I will give it about 16 attempts before abandoning the

endeavor). The dilemna, however, is how to present it without becoming a

pest. And, the answer is to get their permission.

The way I accomplish this is by saying " I don't want to become a pest, and

I know that at this time this is not something you want to consider. But I

feel very strongly about this and I know some people who have had tremendous

results using various modalities of therapy. So, with your permission, I

would like to periodically bring this up again. I want you to know that I

value our relationship above all else, and I don't want this to become a

barrier between us. So, if I start to say anything about other treatments,

and you don't want to here it, just raise your hand and we will go to other

topics. Just know that I love you and want the best for you. And I value our

friendship. "

I hope this can give you further opportunities to talk with her in the

future. You never know when the right time is without multiple attempts.

Love, peace and blessings.

Curtis

 

Rev. R. C. Abreu, BS, RN, CHTP/I, CRMT, CH

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Subtle Energy Techniques to Support Growth & Healing

~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/nrgbalance~~~~~~

~~~SomaChi...the Balance you've been looking for...~~~

 

 

 

 

 

 

_______________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

 

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

http://profiles.msn.com.

[Guest guest]

Dear Curtis;

 

Thanks for taking the time to offer another perspective on my dilemma.

 

I think that I can learn a great deal from your low-key approach to

presenting new ideas " without becoming a pest " . My overly-enthusiastic

(read: pushy) style has, in the past, earned me the nickname " Black and

Decker " (along with some other less flattering ones!!). I'll think about

some gentler ways to deal with the people and ideas--not just in the context

of the problem we discussed, but as a general rule of dealing with people.

 

Appreciate the feedback.

 

Be well,

 

Florie

-

" Curtis Foster " <cfoster1

 

Monday, February 23, 1998 9:27 AM

Re: Another question about sending healing with/without

permission

 

 

> Florie;

> as in most things, timing is the key. I have found that repeated exposure

to

> new ideas is the key( I will give it about 16 attempts before abandoning

the

> endeavor). The dilemna, however, is how to present it without becoming a

> pest. And, the answer is to get their permission.

 

> I hope this can give you further opportunities to talk with her in the

> future. You never know when the right time is without multiple attempts.

> Love, peace and blessings.

> Curtis

 

>

[Guest guest]

>This is the situation:

>We have a neighbor who, when we first met her, was in remission from breast

>cancer. Last year, she was diagnosed with a tumor in her lung. She is

>receiving the best of traditional medical care (Sloan-Kettering in NYC), and

>seems absolutely determined to beat this. She's a real fighter. We have

>offered her various support strategies to complement her medical care; all

>of which she has refused (Books and tapes from O. Carl Simonton, NLP

>interventions and positive visualizations, just to name a few). She has

>refused all of our offers of help and now seems rather more standoffish than

>when we first met (she's a traditional suburban matron--we're just those

>strange folks who have wildflowers rather than grass for a front lawn).

>We pray for her healing often, but I would like to direct some intensive

>energy toward her. I don't want to violate her free will, but this is a

>person who is obviously fighting very hard to live--this is not someone who

>has decided that it is her time to go, she is being treated very agressively

>and wants very much to survive. I would like to aid her in that battle.

>Where, in this particular case, is *the line*? I've tried to put myself in

>her shoes and feel that, if the situation were reversed, I would be happy

>that someone extended themselves and their energies to me in a time when I

>might not be otherwise thinking clearly enough to accept that offer. Is

>there some middle ground, perhaps; where I can help her without violating

>her free will?

 

Okay here's my $0.02, take it or leave it...

 

First, there are so many reasons why people get sick, and not everyone

wants to get better. You need to respect that she is choosing her own

future, for better or worse, and she has the right to do so.

 

Personally, I don't think it's possible to " overrule " someone else's free

will -- if she really wants to stay sick or even die, nothing you can do is

going to stop that. Sending healing energy (or casting a spell) is

essentially the same as prayer -- they are all requests for a particular

outcome. I don't see anything wrong with sending your friend healing

energy or praying for her, as long as you recognize that you are asking for

what YOU want, not for what she wants, and are willing to respect the fact

that your friend may want something different.

 

Just as you don't have the right to decide for her what treatment she's

going to follow, she doesn't have the right to decide whether or not you're

going to include her in your prayers.

 

As to more direct help, like giving her books about alternative therapies,

why not just let her know that you're interested in helping her find

resources for healing if she decides that she wants them, and leave them at

that? As much as a fighter as she may be, she may change her mind in the

future.

 

Blessed be,

 

Bon Johnston

bon_johnston

http://www.sacredsexuality.net

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/03/2000 1:46:57 PM Central Daylight Time,

florie writes:

 

<<

Where, in this particular case, is *the line*? I've tried to put myself in

her shoes and feel that, if the situation were reversed, I would be happy

that someone extended themselves and their energies to me in a time when I

might not be otherwise thinking clearly enough to accept that offer. Is

there some middle ground, perhaps; where I can help her without violating

her free will?

 

Advice, please? I'm absolutely torn between respecting her wishes and

trying to do something constructive. Considering the amount of chemicals

and radiation she is enduring, would some good wishes from across the street

really be adding to her burden? I will be waiting for some feedback and tha

nk the group in advance for their thoughtful replies.

>>

MHO is this. Tho you have offered and may send healing energy her way(or

prayer or blessings) she has her own divine contract to fulfill and lessons

to learn in this serious challenge. You may perceive this as an opportunity

for her to learn about alternative methods, but it is up to her on how to run

her illness and recovery. We never know the lessons her illness is teachingt

her family members and maybe the time is not right for her to accept this

kind of help. I think with the best of intentions we try to interject our

beliefs into persons process for their best interest without knowing the full

picture the divine plan is.

 

My advice is continue to pray for her right and perfect plan to work out with

ease. Lend her comfort in whatever she choses and Let it go at that. When

she is ready (if ever ) to explore alternative healing you will be the one

she can turn to. One motto I go by is that energy is available to all, but

given not to those that need it but only those that want it.

 

Maybe picking some of those wildflowers, blessing them and putting them in a

vase to brighten her day would be a nice way to send her loving energy.

Bless You Cecelia

 

 

Be love and laugh!!

[Guest guest]

Cecelia--

 

What a truly lovely idea! Thank you.

 

I'm going to do that today and bless *you* for your good wishes.

 

Be well,

 

Florie

-

<StLReiki

 

Thursday, October 05, 2000 8:41 AM

Re: Another question about sending healing with/without

permission

 

>

> Maybe picking some of those wildflowers, blessing them and putting them in

a

> vase to brighten her day would be a nice way to send her loving energy.

> Bless You Cecelia

>

[Guest guest]

Good morning,

 

I have just d to the list and have already enjoyed the 1 email (so

far) that has come my way.

I think that blessing the wildflowers is such a wonderful idea!

 

Florie (hi there!) had told me what a great list this is and it has already

been confirmed.

 

A short intro of myself;

 

My name is Kristin. My husband, 2 children and I live in the Orlando Florida

area.

 

I am in the process of learning NLP (on my own for now) and have Reiki on my

list of journeys.

I have always had an interest in Reflexology and had recently realized that

I had let it slip by the way side.

Last week, Florie had inspired me (although she isn't aware of it) to get

back into that as well as my

great interest in holistic approaches to health and happiness.

 

I look forward to learning and participating on the list.

 

Kristin

[Guest guest]

--

 

 

 

Personally, I don't think it's possible to " overrule " someone else's free

will -- if she really wants to stay sick or even die, nothing you can do is

going to stop that. Sending healing energy (or casting a spell) is

essentially the same as prayer -- they are all requests for a particular

outcome. I don't see anything wrong with sending your friend healing

energy or praying for her, as long as you recognize that you are asking for

what YOU want, not for what she wants, and are willing to respect the fact

that your friend may want something different.

 

Bon Johnston

bon_johnston

http://www.sacredsexuality.net

 

 

 

 

My contribution is this. Whether praying, sending energy , laying on of

hands, etc. ask for what is in that person's highest good, whatever that

is. This removes personal agenda and puts it in the " hands " of the Divine.

 

Barbara Neebel Meier

www.windemere.org

Barbara