Guest guest Posted December 15, 2000 Report Share Posted December 15, 2000 I also agree with Todd and Z'ev . In Australia for example Liu Wei Di Huang Wan to be sold OTC has all the " correct " labelling and says something like that its use is to " improve kidney function " . So I would get all these patients who had been taking it for nephritis or to lose weight as it must then flush the kidneys. There would be some herbs of course that could be purchased over the counter ,eg shan yao , yi yi ren etc Heiko Lade Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist 2 Jenkins St. Green Island, Dunedin New Zealand Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012 http://www.lade.com/heiko Email: heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2000 Report Share Posted December 20, 2000 In a message dated 12/20/2000 2:56:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes: << I know the Chinese way of cure of menstrual cramps. And it works beautifully, never fail me. It is related to acupunctual. But my method is applying pressure on the meridian point. The name of the point is called " San Ying Chiao " .( I do not have the international naming system with me right now, sorry, but I will try to look it out. ) >> well, where the heck is the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2001 Report Share Posted January 22, 2001 Todd....are you suggesting that the whole patent industry in China and the over the counter drug trade in this country is unethical? And the natural health industry is subject to a differing set of ethics than standard care in China or the US where physicians frequently recommend OTC for conditions, patients self-prescribe, and store personnel provide information? I disagree, I support my patients educating themselves and function as a guide and teacher in their process of self empowerment and provide service when it is beyond their skills. The situation can easily reverse into an ethic of territorial imperitive. Will <<when a product is called alleraid or digestease or livercleanse, it is suggested to the consumer that they can safely self medicate for the implied uses. this leads to a few problems. It runs a high risk that consumers will injur themselves with incorrect medications. these injuries reflect poorly on the professional practice of chinese herbology. It is lose-lose situation for professional practitioners. Our professional practice is reduced in importance and equated with the advice of healthfood store clerks and we are nevertheless blamed for every adverse effect casued by this usage. Thus we should not support the legislative activities of such companies. There is much greater potential for sales revenues by these companies if they subtly induce consumers to save money on " unnecessary " office visits and instead purchase medicine without consultation. A very high number of patients in my practice are experiencing iatrogenic effects of self medication with herbs and dietary regimens based upon the advice of people who are neither trained nor licensed to practice medicine. Every few months, a scare is raised about professionals losing their right to pescribe certain substances, but these are typically no more than thinly veiled attempts by manufacturers and their allies to preserve their unfettered access to gullible laypeople. The risk in this tactic is that consumers will inevitably be injured by this tactic and then we will truly experience professional repercussions. I don't buy the slippery slope theory that by allowing reasonable regulation, we will lose access entirely. By supporting reasonable public safety legislation, we will actually enhance our professional credibility and portect our longterm interests.>> Attachment: vcard [not shown] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2001 Report Share Posted January 22, 2001 No, I agree wholehearted with Todd. While I do believe there are a limited number of herbal products that can be safely offered to the public, a majority of Chinese herbal medicines should be, in my opinion, prescription only from a licensed practitioner. We should set out to draft a profession-wide policy statement and encourage input of schools, organizations and practitioners, to come up with an 'over-the-counter' and prescription-only list of herbal products, so that we are regulating ourselves. Otherwise, the AA business is just the beginning of what we will face. on 1/22/01 10:24 AM, Will at will wrote: ....are you suggesting that the whole patent industry in China and the > over the counter drug trade in this country is unethical? And the natural > health industry is subject to a differing set of ethics than standard care in > China or the US where physicians frequently recommend OTC for conditions, > patients self-prescribe, and store personnel provide information? > > I disagree, I support my patients educating themselves and function as a guide > and teacher in their process of self empowerment and provide service when it > is beyond their skills. The situation can easily reverse into an ethic of > territorial imperitive. > > Will > > <<when a product is called alleraid or digestease or livercleanse, it is > suggested to the consumer that they can safely self medicate for the > implied uses. this leads to a few problems. It runs a high risk that > consumers will injur themselves with incorrect medications. these > injuries reflect poorly on the professional practice of chinese > herbology. It is lose-lose situation for professional practitioners. > Our professional practice is reduced in importance and equated with the > advice of healthfood store clerks and we are nevertheless blamed for > every adverse effect casued by this usage. Thus we should not support > the legislative activities of such companies. There is much greater > potential for sales revenues by these companies if they subtly induce > consumers to save money on " unnecessary " office visits and instead > purchase medicine without consultation. > > A very high number of patients in my practice are experiencing > iatrogenic effects of self medication with herbs and dietary regimens > based upon the advice of people who are neither trained nor licensed to > practice medicine. Every few months, a scare is raised about > professionals losing their right to pescribe certain substances, but > these are typically no more than thinly veiled attempts by > manufacturers and their allies to preserve their unfettered access to > gullible laypeople. The risk in this tactic is that consumers will > inevitably be injured by this tactic and then we will truly experience > professional repercussions. I don't buy the slippery slope theory that > by allowing reasonable regulation, we will lose access entirely. By > supporting reasonable public safety legislation, we will actually > enhance our professional credibility and portect our longterm > interests.>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2001 Report Share Posted January 22, 2001 Will, >I disagree, I support my patients educating themselves and function as a guide and teacher in their process of self empowerment and provide service when it is beyond their skills.< Couple of questions: What do you do to educate them? Do you urge them to self-medicate? The situation can easily reverse into an ethic of territorial imperitive. I don't understand this. Can you clarify? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2001 Report Share Posted January 23, 2001 , Will <will@e...> wrote: ....are you suggesting that the whole patent industry in China and the over the counter drug trade in this country is unethical? And the natural health industry is subject to a differing set of ethics than standard care in China or the US where physicians frequently recommend OTC for conditions, patients self-prescribe, and store personnel provide information? The sale of OTC drugs is regulated. It is not a free for all. I could less what they do in the people's bribocracy of china. the chinese government clearly has no respect for the rule of law, human rights, public health, the environment,etc. > > I disagree, I support my patients educating themselves and function as a guide and teacher in their process of self empowerment and provide service when it is beyond their skills. The situation can easily reverse into an ethic of territorial imperitive. I have no problem with the free availability of most products. I have a big problem with the promotion to the general public of unregulated untested and unsafe products by corporate scumbags who have no ethics, only profit motive. This has nothing to do with advising your patients on how to take care of themselves. You are comparing apples and oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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