Guest guest Posted February 1, 2001 Report Share Posted February 1, 2001 Dear Caroline , Please bear with me. I know it sounds very difficult what I am saying, but I wouldn't have said it without 17 years of everyday treatment with people [not the easiest problems too.] You said: >there are many people out there who have had physical, emotional and mental disorders that are not having fun not knowing what is wrong, because they cannot explore the causation of their dis-ease or alternatives for healing.< Well, I agree that people often deeply experience that's something is wrong with them, and they are almost always right, but it is not the causation of their disease they are to explore but ways out for a better life situation. To stress the causes is a fatal flaw in our old fashioned thinking [which is part of 19 century deterministic science]. The belief that there is no cure unless " the root of the illness causation " is fully explored, is not only clinically untrue but virtually impossible to attain, and therefore misleading. The first two reasons I can think about are: 1. The subconscious. Admitting we are working only partly consciously means among other things never to know that we hit the bottom of our illness situation. How would one know there is not more to it? 2. The chaos theory states that there are infinite numbers of causal links constituting one situation [illness is a living situation]. Therefore to know whatever constitutes the situation as " root causation " is impossible [too many causes, without mentioning effect from one causal line on a another] as a patch to this embarrassment scientist try to speak of " non linear causation " , trying to sort out causes like clouds. All this happens now in science, even medical doctors [MD] will find the word suspicion more suitable as far as diagnosis goes. Moreover, even if we could isolate the root of one's situation [disease] it will not be identical with other's roots of their situation [which is different because everybody is unique and different, and so is every situation. Diagnosis is not a way to get to one's particular situation, but to label it without grasping the uniqueness of one's situation. The question which remains unanswered, is what strategy is best in a case of wrong diagnosis, in which way it can be corrected requiring less effort and time. I believe it is when saying that diagnosis is only an approximation to see where to look, and dropping it the very next moment, knowing that this human in front of us is unique, and so is their situation. You say: I don't think you are being particularly responsible in saying that diagnosis is always dogmatic, regressive or immature. Healing CAN be achieved without formal medical diagnosis, but I guarantee you it cannot be achieved without acknowledgement of the root causation, be that physical, emotional, mental, spiritual or energetic. If you have no idea where to start, and most people do not, you are shooting in the dark at a moving target. I say: This is the basic dogmatic thought [no matter what the dogma is]: " let us stick with what we have because to do otherwise could be dangerous " . This ignores the fact that Medicine like every other science is experimental. That these techniques we have today are a result of yesterday's " non responsibilities " moving away from false theories. I never said diagnosis is the fault here, but to treat diagnosis as knowledge is. It doesn't allow you to recognize your mistakes when they are small. Besides To heal is a mending procedure, it is not enough if it is mended from one side only, it is like holes in a boat's bottom. You save the ship only if there no holes anymore not if you closed one hole, no matter how well you closed it. Healing is a holistic effect, very different from shooting a sitting or a non sitting duck [as a one instant event]. And here too diagnosis stands in the way to see the uniqueness of the person's before you. Because diagnosis will disturb the healer to move to other points of view seeing the patient from other angles, more so if this should be a self applied technique, getting stuck [by insisting it is knowledge] in ones own diagnosis can be harmful. You say: Don't be so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Medicine has an important place in the care and treatment of people, for many reasons, not the least of which is the aspect of faith. If you take a person's faith away and do not replace it with something else they can trust, you are damning them. I say: I think theories are matter of faith, and having faith in medicine is good, but keeping in mind that we all do mistakes all the time, is really making us free, free from all diagnosis too.Keeping in mind that diagnosis is an educated guess, gives people a say assessing their own situation. They can more freely discuss things with their doctors doing self diagnosis as a an educated guess too, the dialogue is justified because nobody really knows everything [root causes included] therefore we can draw a better picture comparing notes of inner experience and outer lab results, the mistakes will become drastic smaller when everybody listens to the other point of view, because nobody knows or can know the entire given situation of the diseased person. You say: Yes, it is important to look at a person as a whole; diagnosing a specific disorder does not mean that you cannot treat a person holistically, or explore various levels of causation. There is no reason to believe that once you know what is going on with your body then you are stuck... if you were not stuck to begin with you would not have anything wrong with your body, would you? Your theory is flawed at its base. I say: If you put a causation model there, the treatment ceases to be holistic, it comes from a particular theoretical point of view and everything is interpreted according to this causal theory and what isn't important or central according to this theory is shoved aside, this is linear thinking and it is not holistic. Holistic approach cannot have anything in its center other to the belief that nothing is central in any given situation. Claiming to know what is wrong with you is not the same knowing that something is wrong with you. Claiming to know what is wrong with you is closer to know everything about what is wrong with you [using words like root causes etc,] and sure you can feel something is wrong, and you can assume or suspect what, but knowing it for sure compromises your ability to see that you are wrong if you are wrong, and this can and will stuck you if you choose to use it. I never stated what my theory is, but I still don't see my mistakes yet. All I did is elaborate so you and others can more easily see them and point them out to me. I wish you will. This will make me grow even more. Wittgenstein said to use his theory as a temporary ladder to throw away after the climb. I say let diagnosis be an educated guess, like all our theories, like our beliefs, use them minimally [they involve education] and throw them away as guesses, at the first possible moment in order to observe the non typical particularities of the given situation. Have a nice creative day Anand Avid www.human-upgrade.com Where the human factor is never neglected. __________ Start your browser with donating food for the hungry. Click on: http://www.thehungersite.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/HungerSite It's free, and only a click away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2001 Report Share Posted March 1, 2001 Bob, I'm really confused now. Who knows Chinese and who doesn't: the sheep or the goat? I can imagine that the goat would be cruder therefore would not know Chinese. Or perhaps the goat is smarter, more individualistic, therefore would know Chinese. Perhaps the sheep, because there are more of them, might know Chinese. I have had little contact with either so I really don't know and I want to know because I was born in the year of the sheep/goat/ram. > I have no idea whether your Pres and VP are knowledgable or not. So this > reply has nothing to do with them. I would just like to say that, in my > experience, one can have 20 or more years clinical experience and still > not know Chinese medical theory expertly. For my, the expert knowledge > of Chinese medical theory mostly hinges upon familiarity with this body > of theory in its original Chinese. Further, because of the forgiving > nature of acupuncture, one can also be a crackjack practitioner in terms > of treatment outcomes without necessarily knowing much or correct theory > as it is taught in China. Therefore, my first question of any teacher > teaching Chinese medicine in English is, " Do you have personal direct > access to the Chinese medical literature in Chinese? " For me, that's > what separates the sheep from the goats. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2003 Report Share Posted March 15, 2003 David - OCOM has a great program. A friend of mine is studying there, let me know if you would like his e-mail address. Also, there is a group set up specifically for OM students and people considering OM schools: AcupunctureStudents/ Good luck! acupuncture wrote:There are 4 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Schools in Pacific Northwest? " David Yeh " 2. San Antonio " Jason " 3. Re: San Antonio Hoang Ho 4. Re: Digest Number 504 Hoang Ho ______________________ ______________________ Message: 1 Thu, 06 Mar 2003 06:20:25 -0000 " David Yeh " Schools in Pacific Northwest? Hi, I am considering going to school in Oregon or Washington, or that area, and I was wondering about the reputation of the schools in that area, and what people's experiences have been. I'm looking at Oregon College of Oriental Medicine (OCOM), Seattle Institute of Oriental Medicine (SIOM), and Bastyr, mostly. I'd like to get more than just TCM, and a good amount of clinic experience, and some qigong in as well, but I wonder if I can get good amounts of all three. So, any help would be appreciated. Thanks! David ______________________ ______________________ Message: 2 Thu, 06 Mar 2003 03:47:25 -0000 " Jason " San Antonio Hello all .... I'm new to the group and am trying to learn more about acupunture. I have bad lower back problems and often suffer from sever low back pain. I was wondering if anyone could recomend a place in San Antonio that is good and could help me. Thank, Jason ______________________ ______________________ Message: 3 Fri, 7 Mar 2003 10:03:41 -0800 (PST) Hoang Ho Re: San Antonio Though we shouldn't reccomend self treatment, the back problems are so specialized for each patient that a knowledge of you treatment schedule could help prevent spasms or pain. Try a massage type treatment affecting a line in the back of your leg ,behind the knee and your ankle. There is a small area to either side of your back about 1/3 the way up the spine. Sometimes just a slight touch there could help. Follow up with a treatment specialist, I don't know of any in your area. Jason wrote:Hello all .... I'm new to the group and am trying to learn more about acupunture. I have bad lower back problems and often suffer from sever low back pain. I was wondering if anyone could recomend a place in San Antonio that is good and could help me. Thank, Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Bob Flaw's Pediatrics book is one of his best... doug On Friday, June 4, 2004, at 01:19 AM, Chinese Medicine wrote: > Message: 21 > Fri, 04 Jun 2004 01:54:02 -0000 > " c_bertorelli " <c_bertorelli > Re: Acupuncture for children - Books > > There are a couple of books available at Amazon.com and Redwing books > that I know of: > > 1) Acupuncture in the treatment of children (3rd Edition) > by Julian Scott and Teresa Barlow (1991) > > 2) Pediatric acupuncture > by May Loo (2002) > > Caroline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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