Guest guest Posted February 10, 2001 Report Share Posted February 10, 2001 " For a type II diabetic, the diet is a Godsend. In fact, it is usually " curative " , allowing for normal blood sugar without medication. " Hi Liz What about the probability of ketosis through extended use of the atkins diet? or is this not a concern when diabetes is involved? doug Many people will walk in and out of your life, But only true friends will leave footprints in your heart. www.fabulosity.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2001 Report Share Posted February 10, 2001 At 01:44 11/2/1, you wrote:> " For a type II diabetic, the diet is a Godsend. In fact, it is usually > " curative " , allowing for normal blood sugar without medication. " > >Hi Liz >What about the probability of ketosis through extended use of the atkins >diet? or is this not a concern when diabetes is involved? > Hi doug Please have a look at this iste http://www.isn.net/~deighanj/diabets1.html quote What helps it? The right diet can work miracles in adult onset diabetes. But the diet usually recommended to treat this disorder can make matters worse. Conventional medical wisdom has for years deemed the best diabetic diet to be made of 55 to 60% complex carbohydrate, 30% polyunsaturated fat, and 10 to 15% protein. A quick analysis of that diet, beginning with protein intake, shows the fallacy in the thinking. Look at this with me for a moment. Let's take as an example an adult man weighing 195 pounds with a lean body mass of 140 pounds. That person will need a minimum of 70 grams of lean protein per day to support his muscles and organs. Each gram of protein accounts for 4 calories;therefore, his minimum protein requirement alone is 280 calories. If that represents 10% of his day's calories, he will eat 2800 calories per day. That's fine, but now he's supposed to eat 60% of these 2800 calories in complex carbohydrate (starches) , and that comes to 1680 calories of starch. As for protein, every 4 calories of starch is 1 gram, and that means this gentleman will be eating 420 grams of carbohydrate per day. The rest of his calories come from fats, which don't alter insulin response at all. Now reason with me here. The man is an adult diabetic. His diabetes is the result of many years of a high insulin level. The dietary components that makes insulin rise, unrestrained by opposing hormones, is carbohydrate (starch and sugar). As little as 80 to 100 grams of starch in a day will cause a big outpouring of insulin. Does it make sense, then, for this person to consume nearly five times that amount of starch every day? Absolutely not! Should we be surprised that the consequences of his diabetes - the blood pressure, the weight gain, the fatigue, the risk for heart disease, the formation of cataracts - don't improve very much on that kind of diet? No! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2001 Report Share Posted February 11, 2001 Doug, The following is from Mosby's Medical Encyclopedia page 244: Type II diabetes: noninsulin-dependent diabetes mellitis (NIDDM) Patients not dependent on insulin to preserve life although they may be treated with insulin (even if treated with insulin, they are still classified as NIDDM); ketosis resistant except in very special circumstances such as presence of infections; not HLA related; onset usually after 40 years of age but may occur in youth; serum insulins may be depressed,normal or elevated; 60-90% of diabetics in this class are obese. The atkins diet will induce ketosis in people with a normally functioning pancreas. Some healthy people cannot tolerate the diet because of the effects of ketosis--headache, sluggishness, weakness. Another aspect of the diet is the strain on the kidneys secondary to the high protein load in the blood. Does your client have normal kidney function as evidenced by BUN and Creatinine being WNL? Bottom line -- have your client ask his/her physician/nurse practitioner about the saftey of this diet for them. Each of our bodies are unique. Your client needs to know what to expect from someone educated in the pathophysiology field. Liz Van Strien (different Liz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2001 Report Share Posted February 11, 2001 Hi Liz Thanks muchly for the links and info especially The Doctor's Complete Guide to Vitamins and Minerals by Mary Dan Eades, I didn't know a helluva lot about diabetes so this will help alot. I still haven't been able to find an answer to my original question involving " the Atkins Diet " and ketosis " though. The info you sent which I've been reading seems to rely on eliminating simple sugars and equalizing proteins/complex carbohydrates/fats, spaced out during the day with enough soluble fibre, makes sense. From what I've gathered from the Atkins diet it is a carbohydrate elimination diet. Which allows for quick weight loss and ketosis. Am I missing something. Thanks for your help, sorry to be a pain, just trying to understand. best wishes doug Many people will walk in and out of your life, But only true friends will leave footprints in your heart. www.fabulosity.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2001 Report Share Posted February 11, 2001 Hi Liz Van Strien (different Liz) That answers the question precisely. I did not know diabetics were immune to ketosis, and now I do. I presently do not have a client with diabetes, but I'm sure I will at some point in my practice, so I'm glad I found out now. I was asking only for my own personal knowledge base. So thank you very much for the info. best wishes Sincerely doug Many people will walk in and out of your life, But only true friends will leave footprints in your heart. www.fabulosity.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2001 Report Share Posted February 11, 2001 At 01:42 12/2/1, you wrote:>Hi Liz I still haven't been able to find an answer to my original question involving " the Atkins Diet " and ketosis " though.. My apologies Doug for missing the point of your question. I think it is a very important issue . I agree with Liz Van Strien that the lowcarb/high protein diet is not appropriate for everyone. Dr Atkins mentions a few medical disorders where it is not suitable. In this discussion we are talking about diabeties. My understanding is that there is a difference between 'ketosis' of the low carbohydrate diet caused by the breakdown and conversion of fats in the diet and 'ketoacidosis' that diabetics get when they do not have insulin to break down carbohydrates. .. " The absence of insulin also leads the liver to perform gluconeogenesis, turning the body's protein store-the muscles and vital organs-into even more glucose that the body cannot utilize " " ketoacidosis is the extreme high blood sugar and ketone buildup in the body that can result in diabetic coma. " I studied Dr.Bernstein's web site and found these and I quote from his site. I have yet to find for myself a well written yet good simple explanation of the difference that I can quote from on the web that is a reputable reference . Mostly because any explanation has to include a lesson in how the body uses insulin to break down carbohydrates . To understand the metabolic process lets look at carbohydrates " carbohydrates are chains of sugar molecules. The carbohydrates we eat are mostly chains of glucose molecules. The shorter the chain, the sweeter the taste. Some chains are longer and more complicated (hence, simple and complex carbohydrates), having many links and even branches. But simple or complex, carbohydrates are composed entirely of sugar. " " the real dietary problem for diabetics is fast-acting or large amounts of carbohydrate, which result in high blood sugars requiring large amounts of insulin to try to contain them. " Insulin and Type I Diabetes " . Without insulin, glucose accumulates in the blood to extremely high toxic levels; yet, since it cannot be utilized by the cells, many cell types will starve. The absence of insulin also leads the liver to perform gluconeogenesis, turning the body's protein store-the muscles and vital organs-into even more glucose that the body cannot utilize. Meanwhile, the kidneys, the filters of the blood, try to rid the body of inappropriately high levels of sugar. Frequent urination causes insatiable thirst and dehydration. Eventually, the starving body turns more and more protein to sugar, leaving no organ unaffected. The ancient Greeks described diabetes as a disease that causes the body to melt into sugar water. When tissues cannot utilize glucose, they will metabolize fat for energy, generating by-products called ketones, which are toxic at high levels and cause further water loss as the kidneys try to eliminate them (see ketoacidosis, in Chapter 20, " How to Cope With Dehydrating Illness " ). " The Body In and Out of Balance Diabetes is the breakdown or partial breakdown of one of the more important of the body's autonomic (self-regulating) mechanisms, andits breakdown throws many other self-regulating systems into imbalance. There is probably not a tissue in the body that escapes the effects of the high blood sugars of diabetes. People with high blood sugars tend to have osteoporosis, or fragile bones; they tend to have tight skin; they tend to have inflammation and tightness at their joints; they tend to have many other complications that affect every part of their body. ............. Hope this helps Regards Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2001 Report Share Posted February 18, 2001 Doug, Be careful. Everybody can develop ketosis. It occurs when the body does not have access to glycogen stores and begins to break down its own tissue leaving lactic acid as a by product. Yes, I have seen some types of diabetics with sky-high glucoses (in the 900's) without evidence of ketosis. But I would encourage you to get a physician's explanation of the physiology involved and also have your client talk to his/her PCP before starting on the Adkins diet. The endocrine system is powerful and intricate. The definition provided for you was just the start of the exploration you should make into this area if you are going to be treating people with pancreatic problems. Good luck and God bless. Liz Van Strien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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