fear - was seeking protection

[Guest guest]

I'll have to check with Lauri as we are renegotiating days.

 

Talk to you later.

 

Celeste

[Guest guest]

Hi Linda and Crow and all,

 

This " feeling thing " is so problematic. It seems to me that we deal

adequately with our feelings when we don't repress them or act them out.

Supressing them (consciously controling them) is often necessary to get

along in society. However, when we are unconscious we repress them and

then they can do their damage. When we act out, we also hurt ourselves

and/or others.

 

The big question is----how do we accomplish this satisfactorily? I know

that different approaches work for me at different times. Sometimes, I

need to explore their cause and finding it is very enlightening (i.e., I

have recently discovered that there was much deception in my childhood

that was very unresolved until I uncovered the source of it. I was very

perceptive and discerning that something was very wrong. However, it was

many years before I learned to trust myself enough to discover the truth.

When I discovered this, I became freer than I had ever been before.) At

other times, it is more productive to just deal with the feeling

(acknowledge it, accept it as a human experience and move on (i.e., calm

myself through meditation, etc.)

 

I do not adhere to the positive thinking philosophy, indiscriminately.

It has it's good points as " As a man thinketh... " but I have often seen

it be a means of repression when " negative' feelings need to be

acknowledged and dealt with. It can lead to very serious denial and

repression and , then, of course, projection.

 

This is an interesting dialogue for me. I would be interested in others'

thoughts and experience in dealing with feelings.

 

Thanks.

 

Celeste

[Guest guest]

Nice balance there, Crow.

 

Grieving is natural and the process is important to go through and not

get stuck in. Having someone to listen is very healing. Unfortunately,

those close to us may not be able to handle our pain either because they

are grieving the same loss or lack understanding, have too much 'on their

plate' already or, sometimes, don't really care. As a therapist, I find

that one of the most important things I do is just to listen. This,

often, allows one to move on when one feels validated and affirmed.

 

It is also important to realize, though, when a depression may be

chemical and need pharmacological intervention or psychologically

pathological and need long-term intervention.

 

Peace,

 

Celeste

[Guest guest]

Hi Linda,

 

It's nice to feel I may have a soulmate out there. We seem to agree on

alot. thanks for the affirmation.

 

Peace,

 

Celeste

[Guest guest]

Crow,

What you said: " Your fear is your most dangerous enemy, and it lives

inside the walls with you. " is very powerful to me. I am often afraid.

I learned to expect to be caught doing something bad even when I know

I could not have done anything wrong. I especially live in - oops:

with - fear of displeasing my beloved partner. So much so that I get

uncomfortable and act un-naturally and then - guess what? He gets

annoyed at me because I am acting so strangely and unlike the

comfortable me he loves to be with.

Audrey

[Guest guest]

Hi Audrey:

 

I believe in approaching our feelings as if they are discrete beings when

they are uncomfortable, until we can embrace and accomodate them back into

ourselves. Fear is the instigator for many of our other " negative " emotions,

such as anger, jealousy and spite. It is also the string puller for

manipulation, avoidance, aggression and dishonesty. Fear is one of our most

visceral emotions, and if not respected and dealt with reasonably, it can

take over our lives.

 

Probably the saddest thing about living in fear rather than with it, trying

to cover and defend, is that you cannot fully experience love while fear is

present. There is a scripture that says " perfect love casts out all fear " ...

if there is not an ability to let go of fear and trust, that perfect love

can't reside with us. So many people wonder why they can't find their

" soulmate " , but they don't even trust or love themselves. They must open

their hands and let go of the fear; the fear is not hanging on to them!

 

Sometimes, their " soulmate " is sitting quietly beside them the whole time,

wondering how long it will take for them to be recognized ;-)

 

At the root of every behavior is a reason. It may not even be a reason you

are aware of, or might be a learned behavior that is related to someone

else's outdated and unnecessary reason. The story I think of regarding this

is about the young wife who always cuts the end off the ham before baking

it; when asked one holiday by her mother why she is doing it, she says,

" Why, I've watched you do it a million times! " Her mother laughs, and says,

" Yes, but that is because my pot was too small for the ham! "

 

When we are in relationship, we may have chosen a person who is like someone

we are familiar with or who reminds us of a familiar figure; although they

may not be at all like that person, we may project and displace the feelings

we had for the other person on them. This can happen in serial

relationships, leading a person to believe that " all men are bad " , or " all

women are bad " , when in fact their own defenses have prevented them from

even seeing the other person as they really are. There are no bad people,

only people who do bad things.

 

If you are in a relationship with a person who is doing bad things, this can

cause a conflict, as you have mixed feelings of wanting to love and yet

hating the behavior. There is no need to torture yourself with bad behavior,

from yourself or anyone else, no need to overcompensate to please someone

because you might be afraid of verbal, physical or emotional retribution.

That pattern of conciliatory behavior is built into us as children, usually

because we had a strong authority figure in our lives that did not support

feelings of security for some reason and we felt that if we were very, very

good, perfect, even, then nothing bad would happen to us.

 

You have to be who you are. You have to be true to yourself. If you are

trying to be someone else to please or soothe someone else, then you are not

doing that; you are being what you think they want, and you are lying to

yourself about your identity. You may have even forgotten who you are, after

a while, as you grow used to the pattern of being a peacemaker. But inside

your heart is the truth, and it will work at you like a burr until you find

it and explore it. It seems that your mate likes you the way you are... why

don't you?

 

So I will ask you... who are you? When you are totally alone, what do you

like to do, read, listen to? Do you have any personal goals? What do you

think is your soul purpose for being here on earth? For just a moment, step

away from your responsibilities and obligations, your feelings of guilt and

shame. Take that moment to look at the little light you have hidden under

the bushel and see how you can keep it shining. The more you are able to

nurture that light, the more light you can offer to the others in your life;

it won't seem a burden any more to share, because there will be more than

enough for all of you.

 

There are drawbacks to awareness and growth, of course; when we awaken,

sometimes we do so to find we are in a room full of sleeping people, people

who do not want to get up with us and live. And you know what? Once you wake

up, you can't go back to sleep again. That can be hard. But with

perseverence and a renewal in love and respect for yourself you can become a

conduit for change in that room, and for the rest of the world around you.

Instead of trying, over and over, to put that new wine in the old wineskin,

you can go out and make a new wineskin to honor the fruits of your life.

 

Blessings,

Crow

 

>audreylee

>

>

> Re: fear - was seeking protection

>Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:52:03 -0000

>

>Crow,

>What you said: " Your fear is your most dangerous enemy, and it lives

>inside the walls with you. " is very powerful to me. I am often afraid.

>I learned to expect to be caught doing something bad even when I know

>I could not have done anything wrong. I especially live in - oops:

>with - fear of displeasing my beloved partner. So much so that I get

>uncomfortable and act un-naturally and then - guess what? He gets

>annoyed at me because I am acting so strangely and unlike the

>comfortable me he loves to be with.

>Audrey

>

>

 

 

Caroline " Crow " Abreu

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Subtle Energy Techniques to Support Growth & Healing

Holistic Nurse Specializing in:

Healing Touch, Reiki, Chios, Hypnotherapy

Intuitive Readings

~~~~~~ http://www.geocities.com/nrgbalance ~~~~~~

~~~ SomaChi...the Balance you've been looking for... ~~~

 

" The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind

is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors

the servant and has forgotten the gift. " ~ Albert Einstein

 

" The greater part of our happiness or misery depends on our

dispositions, and not on our circumstances. We carry the

seeds of the one or the other about with us in our minds

wherever we go. " ~ Martha Washington (1732 - 1802)

 

 

 

 

 

 

_______________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Beautifully put, Crow!

 

Namaste,

Becky...

 

 

Caroline Abreu [nrgbalance]

Thursday, March 22, 2001 11:33 AM

 

Re: Re: fear - was seeking protection

 

 

There are drawbacks to awareness and growth, of course; when we

awaken,

sometimes we do so to find we are in a room full of sleeping people,

people

who do not want to get up with us and live. And you know what? Once

you wake

up, you can't go back to sleep again. That can be hard. But with

perseverence and a renewal in love and respect for yourself you can

become a

conduit for change in that room, and for the rest of the world

around you.

Instead of trying, over and over, to put that new wine in the old

wineskin,

you can go out and make a new wineskin to honor the fruits of your

life.

 

Blessings,

Crow

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Caroline Abreu wrote:

 

> I believe in approaching our feelings as if they are discrete beings when

> they are uncomfortable, until we can embrace and accomodate them back into

> ourselves.

 

Crow, I understand what you're saying and I've gone back and forth about this

issue over the years - sometimes

believing that feelings are good to embrace, other times not. I am in a 'not'

phase right now. The book I

mentioned a few weeks ago is about learning to view 'negative' (disconnected)

feelings and thoughts as just

'mechanical', coming from habitual responses to old memories. And to not hook

into them, just observe and don't

give them any more time than that. I was trained as a therapist to honor them

and find the reasons for them, yet

over the years, out of the two options, that way doesn't seem to have worked as

well for me. It just kept me on a

wild goose chase, searching for what caused them, what went wrong, but never

fully getting to it. And the end

result was spending a lot of time " feeling the pain in order to get past it " .

It doesn't seem logical to me to

put yourself in pain in order to get out of pain. Another thing is, studies

clearly show that any painful

emotions, even the most justified ones, cause damage to our bodies. That's not

to say we should be afraid of

emotions, but I think doing things to stop them sooner (i.e. observing, not

hooking into them) is probably a wise

thing to do. I'm not saying this way is the right way, I'm just exploring this

issue once again in my life.

 

>

> Probably the saddest thing about living in fear rather than with it, trying

> to cover and defend, is that you cannot fully experience love while fear is

> present. There is a scripture that says " perfect love casts out all fear " ...

> if there is not an ability to let go of fear and trust, that perfect love

> can't reside with us.

 

This I agree with but I think you're saying that fear dissolves *after* you

embrace it and learn from it. That's

the part I'm not so sure that our society as a whole has got correct right now.

Love can shine through when fear

and anger are not present, so I guess the thing is - how best to dissolve fear

and anger. It seems to me that

sometimes thinking about it and getting 'in touch' with childhood issues etc

brings up more feelings which is then

termed 'pain for future gain'.

 

> So I will ask you... who are you? When you are totally alone, what do you

> like to do, read, listen to? Do you have any personal goals? What do you

> think is your soul purpose for being here on earth? For just a moment, step

> away from your responsibilities and obligations, your feelings of guilt and

> shame. Take that moment to look at the little light you have hidden under

> the bushel and see how you can keep it shining. The more you are able to

> nurture that light, the more light you can offer to the others in your life;

> it won't seem a burden any more to share, because there will be more than

> enough for all of you.

 

Those are good questions. Finding our intinsic talents and our purpose in life

is a good place to put our focus!

 

>

> There are drawbacks to awareness and growth, of course; when we awaken,

> sometimes we do so to find we are in a room full of sleeping people, people

> who do not want to get up with us and live. And you know what? Once you wake

> up, you can't go back to sleep again. That can be hard. But with

> perseverence and a renewal in love and respect for yourself you can become a

> conduit for change in that room, and for the rest of the world around you.

> Instead of trying, over and over, to put that new wine in the old wineskin,

> you can go out and make a new wineskin to honor the fruits of your life.

>

> Blessings,

> Crow

 

good post, thank you.

 

Linda

DrNature

[Guest guest]

Hi Linda:

 

I think I know where you are coming from, and I'd like to say, that it is in

all of us to " waffle " on these issues from time to time, as our mind

readjusts around new things or reviews old things. Our beliefs, like the

rest of us, should never become too static... your flexibility of thought

shows that you have an open mind.

 

I would like to clarify what I am saying about fear. I am not saying we have

to wallow in fear in order to understand it, or even like it, for that

matter. What we have to do is love it to death! We have to embrace the

shadow parts of us so that they remain just that, shadows. If we can keep

the light in front of us, as our focus, then the shadow will trail behind

us, where it belongs ;-) But where there is light, there is shadow, as long

as there is form. So we have to learn to live with it, accept it, and if we

can, understand it.

 

It may sound a bit trite, but the thing that keeps me going many times is

the saying " Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional " . We are spiritual

beings living in physical bodies, and there are some things about living in

the world that are not pleasant. We don't have to buy into them, but if we

are conscious beings, we will feel the resonance of them, we can't ignore

the pain of ourselves or others. However, we do not have to be martyrs, we

do not have to be pitiful or see others as piteous. We also need to

recognize ways in which we can cause pain in others so that we can adjust

our behaviors, or ways in which we can assist others who are in pain to find

comfort. Sometimes that comfort is not the absence of pain, but the coping

with pain.

 

For instance, I can sit with a woman who has lost her child, give her tea,

listen to her. I cannot take away the pain of the loss, and it would not be

natural to do so. Despite my desire that she be " pain free " , the process of

grief is part of her growth as a being. If I could give her a pill that put

her to sleep for six months, she'd still have to wake up and grieve. Pushing

her to have another child right away is one way society avoids the nature of

grief.

 

Another example... a couple has a divorce because of infidelity. There is

much pain and loss all around, feelings of betrayal of trust, etc. It is the

period of pain that gives them time to explore themselves without jumping

back into relationship, like the pain of a broken leg keeps you from bearing

weight on it. Most of us realize that " rebounding " is not all that healthy,

but that is what happens when someone ignores their pain and acts anyway.

" Get back on the horse, " people will say. " Go out, date. " Why rush?

 

People with any illness will grieve their health; people will terminal

illness may have to grieve themselves. They need to do that before they can

move on to healing, and part of that is exploring their fear.

 

I think it is the same with depression, except for the deep, organic forms

that cause a person to be a danger to themselves or others; we are not happy

all the time, and we should respect that. Sometimes I think that we insist

on being happy 24/7, and that is not natural, so we artificially induce it

and try to deny that we have a right to our times of sadness and

introspection.

 

Even the earth myths of the cycle of the seasons reflects this deep

knowledge that we contain, that it is natural to bloom, natural to fade,

natural to produce fruit and natural to die. And within each life's cycle is

another cycle of years, of moons, of days. What I am saying about fear is,

that since it is part of us, it may be part of the cycle, one of those

things we will periodically confront, dance with, and let go on our way

around the wheel.

 

Blessings,

Crow

" Look for Rainbows in the Darkness "

 

 

>drnature <drnature

>

>

>Re: Re: fear - was seeking protection

>Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:13:44 -0800

>

>

>

>Caroline Abreu wrote:

>

> > I believe in approaching our feelings as if they are discrete beings

>when

> > they are uncomfortable, until we can embrace and accomodate them back

>into

> > ourselves.

>

>Crow, I understand what you're saying and I've gone back and forth about

>this issue over the years - sometimes

>believing that feelings are good to embrace, other times not. I am in a

>'not' phase right now. The book I

>mentioned a few weeks ago is about learning to view 'negative'

>(disconnected) feelings and thoughts as just

>'mechanical', coming from habitual responses to old memories. And to not

>hook into them, just observe and don't

>give them any more time than that. I was trained as a therapist to honor

>them and find the reasons for them, yet

>over the years, out of the two options, that way doesn't seem to have

>worked as well for me. It just kept me on a

>wild goose chase, searching for what caused them, what went wrong, but

>never fully getting to it. And the end

>result was spending a lot of time " feeling the pain in order to get past

>it " . It doesn't seem logical to me to

>put yourself in pain in order to get out of pain. Another thing is,

>studies clearly show that any painful

>emotions, even the most justified ones, cause damage to our bodies. That's

>not to say we should be afraid of

>emotions, but I think doing things to stop them sooner (i.e. observing, not

>hooking into them) is probably a wise

>thing to do. I'm not saying this way is the right way, I'm just exploring

>this issue once again in my life.

>

 

_______________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

celeste m sullivan wrote:

 

> I know

> that different approaches work for me at different times. Sometimes, I

> need to explore their cause and finding it is very enlightening (i.e., I

> have recently discovered that there was much deception in my childhood

> that was very unresolved until I uncovered the source of it. I was very

> perceptive and discerning that something was very wrong. However, it was

> many years before I learned to trust myself enough to discover the truth.

> When I discovered this, I became freer than I had ever been before.) At

> other times, it is more productive to just deal with the feeling

> (acknowledge it, accept it as a human experience and move on (i.e., calm

> myself through meditation, etc.)

 

Celeste, what you've said is so true - it depends on what we're feeling at that

moment and where we are in our

lives at the time. As with everything else, there is never one answer that

applies to all situations.

 

I am also enjoying this discussion, I love exploring these ideas. The thing

I've noticed is that often the

strongest supporters of the idea that you have to feel the pain in order to move

out of it are the people who are

in the most pain.... that's something to really consider. I think there is a

big difference between 'fully feel

the pain' in order to move past it or 'getting in touch' with the pain so that

you find new strategies to move out

of it. What I mean is, feeling the pain in and of itself isn't what makes the

change. But you do have to 'go

there' in order to work some things out.

 

As I said before, I believe that when the feelings are actually present, it's

best to not hook into them, just

'observe' so that you are detached and can stay in the part of your mind that is

not in the muck. The thoughts

and feelings are not rational at that point. Often nothing else is needed. I

used to instead delve in and call

people and write it out and I'd stay in it for weeks! (months years!) Someone

mentioned the temporary high and

elation from positive thinking and the body's desire to balance it with a

depression afterwards.... to me it seems

that those thoughts of depression and self-talk (for instance, 'this happiness

can't last') are just more of the

negative states to not hook in to, if that makes sense. One thought leads to

another until we're at the point

that we have a BIG heap of problems to deal with. I'm finding that using this

technique of dealing with them

allows the heap to stay very small so that I don't have even more to work out

later.

 

> I do not adhere to the positive thinking philosophy, indiscriminately.

> It has it's good points as " As a man thinketh... " but I have often seen

> it be a means of repression when " negative' feelings need to be

> acknowledged and dealt with. It can lead to very serious denial and

> repression and , then, of course, projection.

 

This is true. It's something I refer to 'soft' pain vs 'hard' pain. One is the

legitimate pain that needs to be

addressed and dealt with. The other is the extra stuff we add onto ourselves,

unknowingly, and then as we keep

trying to undo it, end up adding on more and more and more.

 

> This is an interesting dialogue for me. I would be interested in others'

> thoughts and experience in dealing with feelings.

 

I agree, I would too...

 

 

Linda/DrNature

 

 

> Thanks.

>

> Celeste

[Guest guest]

to Linda dr.nature

 

i recall one of your recent post where you said that

Knowing your goals or having goals is a pre-condition to full health

(this was the idea as i understood you)

can you explain this more please?

Anat

 

-

drnature <drnature

 

ùáú 24 îøõ 2001 18:51

Re: Re: fear - was seeking protection

 

 

>

> celeste m sullivan wrote:

>

> > I know

> > that different approaches work for me at different times. Sometimes, I

> > need to explore their cause and finding it is very enlightening (i.e., I

> > have recently discovered that there was much deception in my childhood

> > that was very unresolved until I uncovered the source of it. I was very

> > perceptive and discerning that something was very wrong. However, it

was

> > many years before I learned to trust myself enough to discover the

truth.

> > When I discovered this, I became freer than I had ever been before.)

At

> > other times, it is more productive to just deal with the feeling

> > (acknowledge it, accept it as a human experience and move on (i.e., calm

> > myself through meditation, etc.)

>

> Celeste, what you've said is so true - it depends on what we're feeling at

that moment and where we are in our

> lives at the time. As with everything else, there is never one answer

that applies to all situations.

>

> I am also enjoying this discussion, I love exploring these ideas. The

thing I've noticed is that often the

> strongest supporters of the idea that you have to feel the pain in order

to move out of it are the people who are

> in the most pain.... that's something to really consider. I think there

is a big difference between 'fully feel

> the pain' in order to move past it or 'getting in touch' with the pain so

that you find new strategies to move out

> of it. What I mean is, feeling the pain in and of itself isn't what makes

the change. But you do have to 'go

> there' in order to work some things out.

>

> As I said before, I believe that when the feelings are actually present,

it's best to not hook into them, just

> 'observe' so that you are detached and can stay in the part of your mind

that is not in the muck. The thoughts

> and feelings are not rational at that point. Often nothing else is

needed. I used to instead delve in and call

> people and write it out and I'd stay in it for weeks! (months years!)

Someone mentioned the temporary high and

> elation from positive thinking and the body's desire to balance it with a

depression afterwards.... to me it seems

> that those thoughts of depression and self-talk (for instance, 'this

happiness can't last') are just more of the

> negative states to not hook in to, if that makes sense. One thought leads

to another until we're at the point

> that we have a BIG heap of problems to deal with. I'm finding that using

this technique of dealing with them

> allows the heap to stay very small so that I don't have even more to work

out later.

>

> > I do not adhere to the positive thinking philosophy, indiscriminately.

> > It has it's good points as " As a man thinketh... " but I have often seen

> > it be a means of repression when " negative' feelings need to be

> > acknowledged and dealt with. It can lead to very serious denial and

> > repression and , then, of course, projection.

>

> This is true. It's something I refer to 'soft' pain vs 'hard' pain. One

is the legitimate pain that needs to be

> addressed and dealt with. The other is the extra stuff we add onto

ourselves, unknowingly, and then as we keep

> trying to undo it, end up adding on more and more and more.

>

> > This is an interesting dialogue for me. I would be interested in

others'

> > thoughts and experience in dealing with feelings.

>

> I agree, I would too...

>

>

> Linda/DrNature

>

>

> > Thanks.

> >

> > Celeste

>

>

>

> ****************************************

> Visit the community page:

> For administrative problems -owner

> To , -

>

> All messages, files and archives of this forum are copyright of the

group and the individual authors.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> to Linda dr.nature

>

> i recall one of your recent post where you said that

> Knowing your goals or having goals is a pre-condition to full health

> (this was the idea as i understood you)

> can you explain this more please?

> Anat

 

Hi Anat,

 

I'm just getting to my mails, I hope to catch up on the wonderful discussions

going on. About your question, I

had mentioned that finding your passion, which gives direction and focus to your

life, is what helps people be

fully healthy, I have found. When we're unhappy, drifting, not having a reason

to be alive and happy, we tend to

get into more conflicts, it represses our immune system, we feel hopeless......

and on and on down a negative

path.. Often I see people who have numerous aches and pains - legitimate

disorders - but when they find something

that energizes and excites them, they have significant pain relief. Our bodies

produce quite different chemicals

into our systems when we're unhappy versus when we're happy. Endorphins are

nature's best pain relievers. People

are then more likely start exercising, and their diets improve, they feel more

comfortable socializing...... and

on and on up a positive path. It may sound strange to some people, but when

someone comes in with an ache, I

first talk about their purpose in life. If they don't want to go that route,

no problem, there are always

herbs to relieve their symptoms. But I'd rather work to heal their life than to

put a bandaid on a symptom.

I love to talk about this sort of thing, so let me know if you have any more

input......

 

Linda/DrNature

[Guest guest]

Celeste,

 

What a wonderful message... I'm just now catching up on my mail. I love being

a soulmate with you!

 

Linda

 

celeste m sullivan wrote:

 

> Hi Linda,

>

> It's nice to feel I may have a soulmate out there. We seem to agree on

> alot. thanks for the affirmation.

>

> Peace,

>

> Celeste

>

>

> ****************************************

> Visit the community page:

> For administrative problems -owner

> To , -

>

> All messages, files and archives of this forum are copyright of the

group and the individual authors.

>

>