It's Happened Again!

[Guest guest]

*** Philosophical Belief system Discussion Disclaimer ***

Please understand that any views expressed here are related only to my

personal perception of reality. As a result, they should not be intrepreted

as an attempt to convince, coerce, cajole, or overwise convert anyone to

anything. If they provide some insight, great, but add however many grains

of salt you find appropriate. I'm still figuring this out for myself.

 

(we now return to this discussion in progress)

 

I haven't been able to give this discussion the attention that it deserves,

but I did want to comment on a few things.

 

As I may have stated her in the past, I believe that there are two primary

forces that effect our lives. One is Cause and Effect and the other is

" Stuff " Happens. I further believe that a great deal of the unhappiness in

the world comes when people mis-identify which of these forces is in

operation.

 

It's tricky, because the same incident may have different causation for each

of the participants. For instance, take a drunk driving incident. The

causitive force for the drunk is, of course, the decision to get behind the

wheel after drinking. Obviously cause and effect. How about for the innocent

schmoe that gets nailed by the drunk?

 

Now here's the really sad bit. Often, this poor person will try to attempt

to find meaning by blaming themselves. " If I had only left a minute

earlier. " " I should have gone a different way. " so on and so on, to no real

effect. This person may well devote a considerable portion of her life to

this self-destructive process. " Stuff " Happens. Sorry, but that's the way it

is.

 

For the drunk, we're talking Cause and Effect. He may or may not learn from

his mistake. There's a great Simpson's line where Lisa says, " Dad has the

worst luck when he's drinking. " If he decides that his " accident " was bad

luck, then he'll learn nothing. On the other hand, if he realizes the

situation and uses that imformation properly, then he may not have to repeat

the experience. The " bad luck " thing may be a lot of why so many drunk

drivers repeat. For instance, I have a friend who was burned out several

years ago. To this day, he blames faulty wiring even though the fire scene

showed that he had apparently plugged in his waterbed heater and then passed

out before filling the bed. He has chosen to intrepret the event as " bad

luck. "

 

What I'm taking a real long time in saying, is that IMHO, events do not

intrinsically have meaning or purpose. I think that we can chose to give

them meaning or purpose by our reaction to them. but, on thier own, they're

just events until we understand them. If you're the drunk and you take the

event as a sign that it's time to clean up, the event has gobs of meaning.

If you decide it's bad luck, then not so much. If you're the recipient of

" Stuff Happens " and you rationalize blame for yourself, the event again has

meaning, but inappropriately so.

 

Much precognition is based on the subconscious analysis of available data.

Joanie, you may have in part known about the possible arson due to clues

that you observed, but didn't note consciously. There's also the more

mysterious kind where people know thing they have no way of knowing. In your

case, you already had some two decades worth of problems with the neighbors.

There may have been a change in their manner that tipped you off.

 

Or, as Frued is suposed to have said, " Sometimes a pickle is just a pickle. "

Your house may have been due to burn down and it happened during a period

where you were even more suspicious. The really nasty thing about

coincidence, is that they do sometimes happen. I do my best to figure out

these things with the best facts that I can lay my hands on. In my friend's

case, the Fire Marshall's report was pretty solid. It only takes a little

training to have a fair idea of where and why a fire starts. (and a lot to

know exactly where and why)

 

You say that you're trying to move beyond the fire. Perhaps, you need to

look back further. You say that you've devoted twenty years to compiling

evidence against your neighbors. It's just possible that you might gain

something by trying to figure out why that process started. That may give

you some insight into the fire and your reaction to it.

 

Ray

 

 

 

> " Joanie MacPhee " <macphee

>

>

>Re: It's Happened Again!

>Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:49:34 -0500

>

>Hi Linda and all~~

>I suppose I am supposed to introduce myself first, but I never do, so I

>won't....

>

>But reading your words about the power of thoughts brings an internal

>debate

>to the surface.

>

>During the week before my house burned down (and I do believe it was

>deliberate) in 1997, I was consumed with the idea that it was going to

>happen.

>I reported a threatening visit by neighbors to the police on

>Monday, and told them I believed the house would be burned down within 2

>weeks.

>Wednesday, Alice, the storekeeper who knew everything, told me my

>neighbors were going to burn my house down.

>Sunday it burned down.

>

>I KNEW this.

>But did I draw it to myself via the incessant dwelling on the

>possibility?

>Did I just have the precognitive vision that it would happen,

>and preassign the blame to my neighbors?

>Or did I telepathically " hear " my neighbors planning it?

>

>The local police chose to believe it was " coincidence " and bad wiring (as

>the neighbors in question claimed that to me the cause)....but that is

>another story. I seem to be stuck in anger at the people who I believe to

>have done this and at the officials who preferred to blame it on me and my

>so-called " bad wiring " , and at the self-doubt involved with the possibility

>that I could have possibly brought it on to my self by the power of my

>thoughts.

>

>I need to get past this, and move on (the motive for the fire

>would be to destroy boxes of evidence I had against these people for

>environmental and other crimes committed over 2 decades) to recreate my

>life, if not to write up a summary of all that transpired in the form of

>either a book or a complaint to higher state officials...

>

>Sorry for the intensity, but I live my life like this..no need to be sorry

>for what I have experienced, either...I just need to know WHY I just KNEW

>the fire was going to happen, and perhaps why I was just unable to prevent

>it or to rescue my photographs and writings before it happened.

>

>And, on a

>lighter note, I wonder how my current projected thoughts of passion and

>physical bliss affect the cute schoolbusdriver who drives by here 4 times a

>day~~~~Joanie

>~~~

 

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[Guest guest]

Ray,

 

What you wrote mirrors my beliefs very closely.... there is one part of it

that I might be wording differently

but we could be meaning the same thing. (and btw my own sort of disclaimer is

that I write on this list, or any

list, to learn. I LOVE figuring out life and I never mean to come across as

trying to tell someone my way is the

right way or anything like that. I write in a spirit of exploration of ideas

and love to hear viewpoints that are

different from mine so I can learn from them. I think I can be didactic at

times, but I'm so wonderful in other

ways, I don't let it bother me <G>)

The issue of Cause and Effect vs Stuff Happens..... I would say it's all cause

and effect - but that doesn't

mean it was for a cosmic purpose. I agree with you that we assign meaning to

things and we decide whether they

are for our growth or just 'bad luck'. The reason I say it's all cause and

effect is that the person who was the

victim of the drunk driving accident in your example was there at that moment.

Cause = they were in the car, left

the house at that precise moment, made that right turn, etc. Effect = smashed.

IOW, something always causes a

situation to happen, but it doesn't mean it was *meant* to happen so much as *it

happened*.

When people say things happen for a reason, I think they're meaning that this

was supposed to happen, it was

designed this way by a higher power or fate, and that we should accept it and

know it's for the greatest good. I

would say - it happened, we should accept it and try to spend the least amount

of our precious time and energy on

it and find a way to make it for our greatest good.

In Joanie's case <waves hello to Joanie> it seems to me that the cause was the

action you were taking against

these people. That's it. Your thoughts about what they were doing wrong might

have be missed or overlooked by

another person. All actions have consequences - again not in any mystical way,

just in a pragmatic way. So IMO I

wouldn't say you drew this situation to yourself in some mystical way, you drew

it to you by all that happened. I

think you knew the danger and destructiveness of these people all along and then

as Ray said, may have gotten some

underlying clues, and thought the idea. Also, throughout this whole time

period, you may have thought numerous

things ( " what if they slash my tires, what if they try to jail me " ) but this one

was the only one that 'hit'.

In order for you to move past it, personally I feel you need to do something.

I used to let *everything* go

that people did to me and I had a recent situation where I handled things

differently, as you know. It made *all*

the difference. It helped me let it go because I felt the situation was

handled, though the manner in which it

was done was not something I'd choose next time. Still, it taught me something.

I know you're a type to not let things go, you will stand up and fight for

what you know is right. But do you

do it with the same fervor when it comes to protecting yourself personally?

 

Linda

DrNature

 

Ray Hunter wrote:

 

> *** Philosophical Belief system Discussion Disclaimer ***

> Please understand that any views expressed here are related only to my

> personal perception of reality. As a result, they should not be intrepreted

> as an attempt to convince, coerce, cajole, or overwise convert anyone to

> anything. If they provide some insight, great, but add however many grains

> of salt you find appropriate. I'm still figuring this out for myself.

>

> (we now return to this discussion in progress)

>

> I haven't been able to give this discussion the attention that it deserves,

> but I did want to comment on a few things.

>

> As I may have stated her in the past, I believe that there are two primary

> forces that effect our lives. One is Cause and Effect and the other is

> " Stuff " Happens. I further believe that a great deal of the unhappiness in

> the world comes when people mis-identify which of these forces is in

> operation.

>

> It's tricky, because the same incident may have different causation for each

> of the participants. For instance, take a drunk driving incident. The

> causitive force for the drunk is, of course, the decision to get behind the

> wheel after drinking. Obviously cause and effect. How about for the innocent

> schmoe that gets nailed by the drunk?

>

> Now here's the really sad bit. Often, this poor person will try to attempt

> to find meaning by blaming themselves. " If I had only left a minute

> earlier. " " I should have gone a different way. " so on and so on, to no real

> effect. This person may well devote a considerable portion of her life to

> this self-destructive process. " Stuff " Happens. Sorry, but that's the way it

> is.

>

> For the drunk, we're talking Cause and Effect. He may or may not learn from

> his mistake. There's a great Simpson's line where Lisa says, " Dad has the

> worst luck when he's drinking. " If he decides that his " accident " was bad

> luck, then he'll learn nothing. On the other hand, if he realizes the

> situation and uses that imformation properly, then he may not have to repeat

> the experience. The " bad luck " thing may be a lot of why so many drunk

> drivers repeat. For instance, I have a friend who was burned out several

> years ago. To this day, he blames faulty wiring even though the fire scene

> showed that he had apparently plugged in his waterbed heater and then passed

> out before filling the bed. He has chosen to intrepret the event as " bad

> luck. "

>

> What I'm taking a real long time in saying, is that IMHO, events do not

> intrinsically have meaning or purpose. I think that we can chose to give

> them meaning or purpose by our reaction to them. but, on thier own, they're

> just events until we understand them. If you're the drunk and you take the

> event as a sign that it's time to clean up, the event has gobs of meaning.

> If you decide it's bad luck, then not so much. If you're the recipient of

> " Stuff Happens " and you rationalize blame for yourself, the event again has

> meaning, but inappropriately so.

>

> Much precognition is based on the subconscious analysis of available data.

> Joanie, you may have in part known about the possible arson due to clues

> that you observed, but didn't note consciously. There's also the more

> mysterious kind where people know thing they have no way of knowing. In your

> case, you already had some two decades worth of problems with the neighbors.

> There may have been a change in their manner that tipped you off.

>

> Or, as Frued is suposed to have said, " Sometimes a pickle is just a pickle. "

> Your house may have been due to burn down and it happened during a period

> where you were even more suspicious. The really nasty thing about

> coincidence, is that they do sometimes happen. I do my best to figure out

> these things with the best facts that I can lay my hands on. In my friend's

> case, the Fire Marshall's report was pretty solid. It only takes a little

> training to have a fair idea of where and why a fire starts. (and a lot to

> know exactly where and why)

>

> You say that you're trying to move beyond the fire. Perhaps, you need to

> look back further. You say that you've devoted twenty years to compiling

> evidence against your neighbors. It's just possible that you might gain

> something by trying to figure out why that process started. That may give

> you some insight into the fire and your reaction to it.

>

> Ray

>

> > " Joanie MacPhee " <macphee

> >

> >

> >Re: It's Happened Again!

> >Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:49:34 -0500

> >

> >Hi Linda and all~~

> >I suppose I am supposed to introduce myself first, but I never do, so I

> >won't....

> >

> >But reading your words about the power of thoughts brings an internal

> >debate

> >to the surface.

> >

> >During the week before my house burned down (and I do believe it was

> >deliberate) in 1997, I was consumed with the idea that it was going to

> >happen.

> >I reported a threatening visit by neighbors to the police on

> >Monday, and told them I believed the house would be burned down within 2

> >weeks.

> >Wednesday, Alice, the storekeeper who knew everything, told me my

> >neighbors were going to burn my house down.

> >Sunday it burned down.

> >

> >I KNEW this.

> >But did I draw it to myself via the incessant dwelling on the

> >possibility?

> >Did I just have the precognitive vision that it would happen,

> >and preassign the blame to my neighbors?

> >Or did I telepathically " hear " my neighbors planning it?

> >

> >The local police chose to believe it was " coincidence " and bad wiring (as

> >the neighbors in question claimed that to me the cause)....but that is

> >another story. I seem to be stuck in anger at the people who I believe to

> >have done this and at the officials who preferred to blame it on me and my

> >so-called " bad wiring " , and at the self-doubt involved with the possibility

> >that I could have possibly brought it on to my self by the power of my

> >thoughts.

> >

> >I need to get past this, and move on (the motive for the fire

> >would be to destroy boxes of evidence I had against these people for

> >environmental and other crimes committed over 2 decades) to recreate my

> >life, if not to write up a summary of all that transpired in the form of

> >either a book or a complaint to higher state officials...

> >

> >Sorry for the intensity, but I live my life like this..no need to be sorry

> >for what I have experienced, either...I just need to know WHY I just KNEW

> >the fire was going to happen, and perhaps why I was just unable to prevent

> >it or to rescue my photographs and writings before it happened.

> >

> >And, on a

> >lighter note, I wonder how my current projected thoughts of passion and

> >physical bliss affect the cute schoolbusdriver who drives by here 4 times a

> >day~~~~Joanie

> >~~~

>

> _______________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

>

> ****************************************

> Visit the community page:

> For administrative problems -owner

> To , -

>

> All messages, files and archives of this forum are copyright of the

group and the individual authors.

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

 

I wanted to clarify something - when I said I think you need to do something,

Joanie, I didn't mean retaliate. I

mean, to do something that *you* feel sets this straight, that punctuates the

time and puts it in the past. Something

symbolic or actual that involves more than trying to use your thoughts to let it

go. If that makes sense?

 

Linda

DrNature

 

>

> Ray Hunter wrote:

>

> > *** Philosophical Belief system Discussion Disclaimer ***

> > Please understand that any views expressed here are related only to my

> > personal perception of reality. As a result, they should not be intrepreted

> > as an attempt to convince, coerce, cajole, or overwise convert anyone to

> > anything. If they provide some insight, great, but add however many grains

> > of salt you find appropriate. I'm still figuring this out for myself.

[Guest guest]

Hmmm...a lot to answer, but I will, at this point, respond to this, as it is

not the message I intended to convey.

 

I did not spend 20 years actively " compiling evidence " against my neighbors.

I was the conservation officer in the town and a semi professional wildlife

photographer with a large collection of photographs that just happened to be

taken on a 100 acre tract of land that had been chartered in 1972 as a

non-profit Environmental Education Center. I had been involved tin this

Center's inception and spent those two decades trying to get it to function

as it had been spelled out in the Charter. I had also spent time on this

organizations Board of Directors, and as an officer. This organization

stored all its minutes and official papers, leases, etc., in my house. SO,

I had somewhat passively collected a lot of papers and photographs that I

had never intended to use as evidence...but..

 

In 1995, while I was off the Board of Directors, a group of people who had

moved onto the land and taken over the organization, built a road into the

woods and filled in about 1/4 of a large woodland pond, with Beach sand.

It was my job as the town conservation officer to intervene and try to stop

this from happening. The state got involved, discovered many wetlands and

other violations, and I (as the person in that town who was called in on all

such violations) was asked to turn over a copy of my files, and photographic

record of the pond's change in ecology, and fauna and flora over the years.

Because I felt threatened by these people (actively and passively) who were

really just squatting on the land, I sat on these records for two years

before I decided I needed to turn them over to the state. It was

immediately after that decision was made that the house

burned down.

 

There is a lot more in your post that can be addressed when I have more

time, and a LOT more to my story, but I wanted to make clear that I was not

just sitting at home spying on my neighbors. The whole process started

because I am an idealist, and made the mistake of trying to change people to

live up to my ideals, whereas the reality of my situation was that i was

living in the midst of a bunch of squatters living on conservation land, who

looking for continuance of a free ride, and my very existence was

threatening to them.....Joanie

~~~

 

>You say that you're trying to move beyond the fire. Perhaps, you need to

>look back further. You say that you've devoted twenty years to compiling

>evidence against your neighbors. It's just possible that you might gain

>something by trying to figure out why that process started. That may give

>you some insight into the fire and your reaction to it.

>

>Ray

[Guest guest]

What I think we're disagreeing over is whether the " Stuff happens " causation

is adequate reason to blame oneself for when attempting to understand an

event. If I may explain.

 

First of all, my personal belief system does not require me to believe that

a higher power of any sort controls every event. I accept that something

does indeed influence events, but I don't think it's all the time and it's

not always directed at us specifically. Sometimes, I suspect that we're

effected by events designed for others that we just happen to get in the way

of.

 

Our divergence over causation is semantic. When I say that there is no cause

and effect for the victim of the DUI, I mean that there is no controllable

cause (again, specifically for the victim, the drunk is a different kettle

of fish altogether). If we were all equiped with the driving routes and

timetable of the drunks traveling through our towns, then there would be no

trick to avoiding them. Since we don't have such data, then we can't make a

choice, therefore IMHO, we are not contributing to the choice or by

extension the cause.

 

To me the damage is done by people attempting to take responsibility for

events they could not have possibly prevented and by people who refuse to

take responsibility for the ones that they should.

 

There's a scene in The Thirteenth Warrior where Iben, Antonio Banderas'

character, is trying to convince the Norse Chieftan that he shouldn't allow

one of the warriors to fight a duel. " He could be killed! " The Chieftan

calmly replies, " That is possible. " What strikes me is the difference in

their unsaid words.

 

 

>drnature <drnature

>

>

>Re: It's Happened Again!

>Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:46:17 -0800

>

>Ray,

>

> What you wrote mirrors my beliefs very closely.... there is one part of

>it that I might be wording differently

>but we could be meaning the same thing. (and btw my own sort of disclaimer

>is that I write on this list, or any

>list, to learn. I LOVE figuring out life and I never mean to come across

>as trying to tell someone my way is the

>right way or anything like that. I write in a spirit of exploration of

>ideas and love to hear viewpoints that are

>different from mine so I can learn from them. I think I can be didactic at

>times, but I'm so wonderful in other

>ways, I don't let it bother me <G>)

> The issue of Cause and Effect vs Stuff Happens..... I would say it's all

>cause and effect - but that doesn't

>mean it was for a cosmic purpose. I agree with you that we assign meaning

>to things and we decide whether they

>are for our growth or just 'bad luck'. The reason I say it's all cause and

>effect is that the person who was the

>victim of the drunk driving accident in your example was there at that

>moment. Cause = they were in the car, left

>the house at that precise moment, made that right turn, etc. Effect =

>smashed. IOW, something always causes a

>situation to happen, but it doesn't mean it was *meant* to happen so much

>as *it happened*.

> When people say things happen for a reason, I think they're meaning that

>this was supposed to happen, it was

>designed this way by a higher power or fate, and that we should accept it

>and know it's for the greatest good. I

>would say - it happened, we should accept it and try to spend the least

>amount of our precious time and energy on

>it and find a way to make it for our greatest good.

> In Joanie's case <waves hello to Joanie> it seems to me that the cause

>was the action you were taking against

>these people. That's it. Your thoughts about what they were doing wrong

>might have be missed or overlooked by

>another person. All actions have consequences - again not in any mystical

>way, just in a pragmatic way. So IMO I

>wouldn't say you drew this situation to yourself in some mystical way, you

>drew it to you by all that happened. I

>think you knew the danger and destructiveness of these people all along and

>then as Ray said, may have gotten some

>underlying clues, and thought the idea. Also, throughout this whole time

>period, you may have thought numerous

>things ( " what if they slash my tires, what if they try to jail me " ) but

>this one was the only one that 'hit'.

> In order for you to move past it, personally I feel you need to do

>something. I used to let *everything* go

>that people did to me and I had a recent situation where I handled things

>differently, as you know. It made *all*

>the difference. It helped me let it go because I felt the situation was

>handled, though the manner in which it

>was done was not something I'd choose next time. Still, it taught me

>something.

> I know you're a type to not let things go, you will stand up and fight

>for what you know is right. But do you

>do it with the same fervor when it comes to protecting yourself personally?

>

>Linda

>DrNature

>

 

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Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

My apologies. I was working from what you had written, thus illustrating the

mistake of trying to give advice on limited information.

 

I meant no offense.

 

Ray

 

 

> " Joanie MacPhee " <macphee

>

>

>Re: It's Happened Again!

>Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:14:21 -0500

>

>Hmmm...a lot to answer, but I will, at this point, respond to this, as it

>is

>not the message I intended to convey.

>

>I did not spend 20 years actively " compiling evidence " against my

>neighbors.

>I was the conservation officer in the town and a semi professional wildlife

>photographer with a large collection of photographs that just happened to

>be

>taken on a 100 acre tract of land that had been chartered in 1972 as a

>non-profit Environmental Education Center. I had been involved tin this

>Center's inception and spent those two decades trying to get it to function

>as it had been spelled out in the Charter. I had also spent time on this

>organizations Board of Directors, and as an officer. This organization

>stored all its minutes and official papers, leases, etc., in my house.

>SO,

>I had somewhat passively collected a lot of papers and photographs that I

>had never intended to use as evidence...but..

>

>In 1995, while I was off the Board of Directors, a group of people who had

>moved onto the land and taken over the organization, built a road into the

>woods and filled in about 1/4 of a large woodland pond, with Beach sand.

>It was my job as the town conservation officer to intervene and try to stop

>this from happening. The state got involved, discovered many wetlands and

>other violations, and I (as the person in that town who was called in on

>all

>such violations) was asked to turn over a copy of my files, and

>photographic

>record of the pond's change in ecology, and fauna and flora over the years.

>Because I felt threatened by these people (actively and passively) who were

>really just squatting on the land, I sat on these records for two years

>before I decided I needed to turn them over to the state. It was

>immediately after that decision was made that the house

>burned down.

>

>There is a lot more in your post that can be addressed when I have more

>time, and a LOT more to my story, but I wanted to make clear that I was

>not

>just sitting at home spying on my neighbors. The whole process started

>because I am an idealist, and made the mistake of trying to change people

>to

>live up to my ideals, whereas the reality of my situation was that i was

>living in the midst of a bunch of squatters living on conservation land,

>who

>looking for continuance of a free ride, and my very existence was

>threatening to them.....Joanie

>~~~

>

> >You say that you're trying to move beyond the fire. Perhaps, you need to

> >look back further. You say that you've devoted twenty years to compiling

> >evidence against your neighbors. It's just possible that you might gain

> >something by trying to figure out why that process started. That may give

> >you some insight into the fire and your reaction to it.

> >

> >Ray

>

>

>

 

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[Guest guest]

Ray,

No apologies necessary...when I read what you wrote, I realized that what I

had written could easily leave one with that impression, especially as I

have not written to this list before. I just assumed that Linda, dr.

nature, would have somewhat of an image of me as an idealist truth -teller

out there kind of being, as we have spoken, and ran with that, presenting

just the essence of the thought sequence I keep mulling over.

 

What everyone has written does speak directly to the thought process I am

going through, though. I do not WANT to think that I just knew

precognitively that the fire was coming, or even that my thoughts triggered

it, as that weakens the case, in my mind at least, that it was a deliberate

act...but I cannot shake the *belief* that it was deliberate. I want to

bring my story to the state attorney general, who at this point is

investigating many local officials in that town for fraud, but my tendency

to have precognitive flashes, gets in my way of making a clear convincing

case.

 

ANd it IS a tendency...as I had repeated mental images of the Challenger

space shuttle blowing up for a week before that happened in 1986, and I had

a similar set of images, with a defined time and place, and vehicle

description for a week before a neighbor's child was killed in a bad

accident. But i am very unstable in my belief in myself in this and many

other aspects.

 

Anyway...I need to go back out, now, as the maple sap is flowing at the rate

of a gallon an hour

per tap, and I am hauling it all in by hand, and very short of gallon

jugs...eventually I will try to address all the points made piece by piece.

It is all helpful. Joanie

~~~~~

 

>My apologies. I was working from what you had written, thus illustrating

the

>mistake of trying to give advice on limited information.

>

>I meant no offense.

>

>Ray

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/29/01 8:41:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,

nrgbalance writes:

 

 

> They say that the most

> powerful prayer is " Thank You " because it displays our faith that we are

> being cared for in the best way possible by a benevolent Higher Power, who

> sees the whole picture, when we can only see the scattered pieces of the

> puzzle.

>

 

Thanks for the words of wisdom, Crow. Every night before I go to sleep I

always give thanks. I just whisper " Thank You, Father. " It just comes

naturally for me. But, as far as winning the lottery, I seriously doubt that

I ever will for I rarely ever remember to play! Thanks again............

Bridget Parker

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Crow,

 

Very powerful......loved your email.....thank you for sharing your wisdom.

 

Kate

 

At 09:32 AM 3/29/01 -0500, you wrote:

>And take good care of yourself; really. It seems that you are determined to

>stay in the mindset of a child, who believes in his magical thinking that

>when his grandfather passes, or his parents divorce, or his dog runs away,

>that he is directly responsible. What would you say to that child? Say it to

>yourself. Say it every day until you believe it. Because it is true. You are

>not responsible for the entire world, only for your actions and your

>attitude.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

caroline

 

i love your ideas. they sound right - inside.

thank you.

just wanted to add that the word " desire " has an inside meaning:

de+Sire which means " from God "

 

Anat

 

-

<lbjeparker

 

éåí ùéùé 30 îøõ 2001 09:19

Re: Re: It's Happened Again!

 

 

> In a message dated 3/29/01 8:41:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> nrgbalance writes:

>

>

> > They say that the most

> > powerful prayer is " Thank You " because it displays our faith that we are

> > being cared for in the best way possible by a benevolent Higher Power,

who

> > sees the whole picture, when we can only see the scattered pieces of the

> > puzzle.

> >

>

> Thanks for the words of wisdom, Crow. Every night before I go to sleep I

> always give thanks. I just whisper " Thank You, Father. " It just comes

> naturally for me. But, as far as winning the lottery, I seriously doubt

that

> I ever will for I rarely ever remember to play! Thanks again............

> Bridget Parker

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

[Guest guest]

There is an old joke about this; a fellow prays every week to win the

lottery.

 

One week he begins to be frustrated, and says, " God, will you ever let me

win the lottery? " Again he doesn't win.

 

So the next week he says, " God, you really should let me win the lottery. "

Still, nothing.

 

Finally, he asks, " God, why haven't you let me win the lottery?? " And God

answered, " Because you never buy a ticket! "

 

LOL,

Crow

 

 

>lbjeparker

>

>

>Re: Re: It's Happened Again!

>Fri, 30 Mar 2001 01:19:40 EST

>

>In a message dated 3/29/01 8:41:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,

>nrgbalance writes:

>

>

> > They say that the most

> > powerful prayer is " Thank You " because it displays our faith that we are

> > being cared for in the best way possible by a benevolent Higher Power,

>who

> > sees the whole picture, when we can only see the scattered pieces of the

> > puzzle.

> >

>

>Thanks for the words of wisdom, Crow. Every night before I go to sleep I

>always give thanks. I just whisper " Thank You, Father. " It just comes

>naturally for me. But, as far as winning the lottery, I seriously doubt

>that

>I ever will for I rarely ever remember to play! Thanks again............

>Bridget Parker

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Bridget...

 

I've been studying intuition for over 20 years, and my experience and

study tells me that it is real. The problem I have found with

intuition is that controlling it can be very difficult; it seems to

come up when you need it, but in subtle ways that are hard to discern

from thoughts. For instance, your body's intuition " knew " you'd need

as much rest as possible, hence the suggestion for the power nap.

 

It may be that you had subconsciously noticed some things that your

mother said or did, or the way she acted, when you last visited her.

Your conscious mind didn't pay too much attention to these details,

but your subconscious mind may have put all the pieces together and

understood the seriousness of the situation.

 

Learning to use and trust your intuition might be a starting place

for you. When these little hints kept coming to me, I didn't

understand what I was supposed to do with them, and if I had any

control over the thing I was seeing. Over the years, I began to be

able to tell the difference between my intuition and my thoughts, and

now I follow my intuition whenever it gives me a little hint about

something. For instance, if I'm driving to the store and I " feel "

that I should take one road versus another, I just do it.

 

Have you ever had other things happen to you when a thought just

popped into your head, and later proved true?

 

Peace,

Karyn

http://www.seekerscircle.com

[Guest guest]

Linda...

 

I like what you said! So often I thought that I could " make " things

happen, but the Universe knew better. I wanted things to happen

faster and thought that if I just have positive thoughts, things

would happen faster. I was disappointed that things didn't happen

the way I wanted, then (happily) surprised with what DID come if I

just relaxed into the flow and allowed the Universe to open up to me.

 

I believe in positive thinking, and having clear intentions about

what I'd like in life. I also believe that I don't have all the

answers, and that I should pay attention to the other doors that are

opening all around me. I guess it has a lot to do with letting go of

all the control in life. As long as I keep the " big picture " in mind,

I don't get too worried that the small details don't work out exactly

as I want.

 

Peace,

Karyn

http://www.seekerscircle.com

[Guest guest]

Crow...

 

>>Praying from the ego would be to pray to win the lottery, for

instance. Praying from the heart would be to ask for prosperity, in

the most appropriate form. We are entitled to prosperity, but we

can't always ask for a specific form without altering the patterns...

add to that the element of free choice (deciding to turn left instead

of right, deciding to take a train rather than flying) and you have

the " fractal " elements of fate.<<

 

This is such a great example! It's important when we're creating our

intentions in the Universe, that we understand what we REALLY want.

I often get caught up in the details, and I need to work on

understanding what the real goals are and leaving the details to sort

out in any way that they will. This doesn't mean that I don't take

action towards the goal, but if a specific action seems to dead-end,

I try to turn around and find another avenue to the goal. We get so

caught up in managing the details, we leave no room for creativity,

imagination, and plain old luck. I used to have a fear that if I

didn't control every little detail, nothing would go right in my

life. what a relief to discover that I dont have to control

everything...and things still work out okay!

 

Peace,

Karyn

http://www.seekerscircle.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Karyn,

 

My views on positive thinking have changed over the years. Gone are the

affirmations so I can get what I want, now I find that saying nice things

to myself is *feel good*, irrespective of what happens on the outside....if

it attracts something, well and good.

 

Kate

 

At 04:49 PM 4/2/01 +0000, you wrote:

>I believe in positive thinking, and having clear intentions about

>what I'd like in life.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/2/01 11:44:56 AM Central Daylight Time,

karyng01 writes:

 

 

> Have you ever had other things happen to you when a thought just

> popped into your head, and later proved true?

>

 

I certainly have, and usually it turns out to be correct, too. Even down to

turning on the radio in my car just in time to hear a favorite song. Or, on

the day that my mother died, the song played on the radio at work by either

Babyface or Tony Rich. The one that says something to the effect of

" .......I'm missing you, and nobody knows it but me. " While the song was

playing, I thought to myself " what a sad, mournful song', and I had a really

sad feeling listening to it. Later on that same night, as we were leaving the

hospital, my husband turned the radio on, and what do I hear, but 'In The

Arms of the Angels' by Sarah McCaughlin.

 

Back before I got married, I was in a relationship with a man that I cared

very deeply for. One day while we were sitting at home, entertaining some

friends, we put on an album by Tina Marie. There was a cut on there that we

normally did not play (this was WAY before the CD days), but this particular

song played anyway because we were too lazy to get up, and change the needle

to another song. Anyway, check out the words to this song " ......I can't love

any more. Ever since the day you've been gone, my heart has turned into an

empty shell. Look at me.....I can't love any more. Words I thought I never

would say. If love is just a game, then I don't want to play ever again in my

life. And, if I knew that long ago, I would feel this much sorrow without you

by my side. If you'd been more of a man, and tried to understand instead of

hiding behind your pride. And now my heart is broken, and I'm in misery. "

There's more, but you get my drift.

 

Well, I stopped chatting with my company and for some reason, I paid very

special attention to that song, and somehow I knew, just *knew* that our

relationship would soon be over, and I would be an emotional wreck. And, sure

enough, less than a month later it happened. That was in 1984. It took me

years to get over that man. And even though I love my husband, I must admit,

I still think of that other guy from time to time.

...· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

Bridget ¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:-Parker

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

My father was in the hospital for a routine hip replacement operation. As I

was coming home from school that afternoon, I felt him passing away. He was

simply gone from my life, a presence that was no longer there, and I didn't

even know it was there until it was gone. My poor sister had been trying to

figure out how to tell me that he had died during the operation, and I told

her she didn't need to.

 

Megan

lbjeparker [lbjeparker]

Tuesday, April 03, 2001 12:59 AM

Re: Re: It's Happened Again!

 

 

In a message dated 4/2/01 11:44:56 AM Central Daylight Time,

karyng01 writes:

 

 

> Have you ever had other things happen to you when a thought just

> popped into your head, and later proved true?

>

 

I certainly have, and usually it turns out to be correct, too. Even down

to

turning on the radio in my car just in time to hear a favorite song. Or,

on

the day that my mother died, the song played on the radio at work by

either

Babyface or Tony Rich. The one that says something to the effect of

" .......I'm missing you, and nobody knows it but me. " While the song was

playing, I thought to myself " what a sad, mournful song', and I had a

really

sad feeling listening to it. Later on that same night, as we were leaving

the

hospital, my husband turned the radio on, and what do I hear, but 'In The

Arms of the Angels' by Sarah McCaughlin.

 

Back before I got married, I was in a relationship with a man that I cared

very deeply for. One day while we were sitting at home, entertaining some

friends, we put on an album by Tina Marie. There was a cut on there that

we

normally did not play (this was WAY before the CD days), but this

particular

song played anyway because we were too lazy to get up, and change the

needle

to another song. Anyway, check out the words to this song " ......I can't

love

any more. Ever since the day you've been gone, my heart has turned into an

empty shell. Look at me.....I can't love any more. Words I thought I never

would say. If love is just a game, then I don't want to play ever again in

my

life. And, if I knew that long ago, I would feel this much sorrow without

you

by my side. If you'd been more of a man, and tried to understand instead

of

hiding behind your pride. And now my heart is broken, and I'm in misery. "

There's more, but you get my drift.

 

Well, I stopped chatting with my company and for some reason, I paid very

special attention to that song, and somehow I knew, just *knew* that our

relationship would soon be over, and I would be an emotional wreck. And,

sure

enough, less than a month later it happened. That was in 1984. It took me

years to get over that man. And even though I love my husband, I must

admit,

I still think of that other guy from time to time.

..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

Bridget ¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:-Parker

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Celeste...

 

I agree, intuition is more than a " feeling. " Someone once described

it as a " true knowing " ...sort of like the feeling you get when

you " know " you love someone. It's something you can't " prove, " but

it doesn't make it any less real to you. Does that make sense?

 

A few weeks ago, I quit my corporate job. I just " knew " it was the

right thing to do, intuitively. I also " knew " it was right from an

intellectual, financial, and emotional standpoint, but the thing that

tipped the scales for me was the intuitive sureness that I was doing

the right thing.

 

Peace,

Karyn

http://www.seekerscircle.com

[Guest guest]

Bridget...

 

Tina Marie was (is) an amazing poet in her song-writing. Many of her

songs have moved me over the years. Often, when I'm feeling very

grateful about life, I will hear the words from Irons In The

Fire, " You are such a blessing in my life. "

 

Peace,

Karyn

http://www.seekerscircle.com

[Guest guest]

Megan...

 

When I was 11 years old, I was walking home from school with my

brother, and I just " knew " my grandfather was dead. When I told my

brother, he told me I was imagining it. A few minutes later, my

father pulled up in the car to pick us up and take us home: my

grandfather had died earlier in the day and my father was driving

between school and home looking for us for about 15 minutes.

 

It was the earliest " psychic " experience I can remember.

 

Peace,

Karyn

http://www.seekerscircle.com