Guest guest Posted May 18, 2001 Report Share Posted May 18, 2001 Good balance here! Celeste On Sat, 19 May 2001 10:12:35 -0000 levitron writes: > Dear Caroline and Connie, > Thanks for your comments re this matter. > Caroline wrote: > " What do you think comprises the balance between the physical > realities of the body and the boundless potential of the mind? " > > I have seen diseases recover which " shouldn't have " . I have seen > simple illnesses continue when a minor psychological > adjustment " should have fixed " them. Perhaps the dominance of > either > the physical or psychological is also dependent upon the > individual,and not able to be generalised. To make ourselves > available for healing is all we can do it seems to me, and wait for > nature to do its thing. It sounds like doing nothing, but doing > nothing is not easily experienced by the Western mind. By > practising > allowing and accepting, we put ourselves at nature's disposal, > rather > than trying to control it and the outcome to our disease. > The " physical realities of the body " often refer to the thoughts and > > feelings we have about our ailments and imperfections. In other > words it's our response to them rather than the physical complaint > itself which is worrisome. Which is why some people handle say, > arthritis, with a minimum of fuss and others are crippled by it. > This is not to deny the suffering of the physical ailments, but to > explore our relationship with ourselves, our disease and with nature > > as a way of allowing the illnesss to depart. Sounds convoluted, I > know, but I'm trying to choose words carefully here to draw the > distinction between trying to make ourselves better and allowing > ourselves to get better. > Somehow this distinction is relevant to your question Caroline (to > my > mind at least) as the distinction between the " physical realities " > and the " potential of the mind " is not dissimilar to the distinction > > between trying to control the outcome and allowing nature to fulfil > its healing potential. Perhaps the physical realities can be > regarded as the mental potentials given form (and negative form in > the case of illness) by trying to control them, out of fear. > I don't think we can expect to get through life without physical > illness, but the illness would probably go away of its own accord > most of the time if we took a back seat and allowed our immune > system > to get on with it, instead of always trying to fix it. > I hope this hasn't confused you as much as it has me. > Best wishes > Arjuna > > > **************************************** > Visit the community page: > > For administrative problems -owner > To , - > > All messages, files and archives of this forum are copyright of the > group and the individual authors. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2001 Report Share Posted May 19, 2001 Dear Caroline and Connie, Thanks for your comments re this matter. Caroline wrote: " What do you think comprises the balance between the physical realities of the body and the boundless potential of the mind? " I have seen diseases recover which " shouldn't have " . I have seen simple illnesses continue when a minor psychological adjustment " should have fixed " them. Perhaps the dominance of either the physical or psychological is also dependent upon the individual,and not able to be generalised. To make ourselves available for healing is all we can do it seems to me, and wait for nature to do its thing. It sounds like doing nothing, but doing nothing is not easily experienced by the Western mind. By practising allowing and accepting, we put ourselves at nature's disposal, rather than trying to control it and the outcome to our disease. The " physical realities of the body " often refer to the thoughts and feelings we have about our ailments and imperfections. In other words it's our response to them rather than the physical complaint itself which is worrisome. Which is why some people handle say, arthritis, with a minimum of fuss and others are crippled by it. This is not to deny the suffering of the physical ailments, but to explore our relationship with ourselves, our disease and with nature as a way of allowing the illnesss to depart. Sounds convoluted, I know, but I'm trying to choose words carefully here to draw the distinction between trying to make ourselves better and allowing ourselves to get better. Somehow this distinction is relevant to your question Caroline (to my mind at least) as the distinction between the " physical realities " and the " potential of the mind " is not dissimilar to the distinction between trying to control the outcome and allowing nature to fulfil its healing potential. Perhaps the physical realities can be regarded as the mental potentials given form (and negative form in the case of illness) by trying to control them, out of fear. I don't think we can expect to get through life without physical illness, but the illness would probably go away of its own accord most of the time if we took a back seat and allowed our immune system to get on with it, instead of always trying to fix it. I hope this hasn't confused you as much as it has me. Best wishes Arjuna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2001 Report Share Posted May 20, 2001 Arjuna: Beautiful, as always. levitron wrote: > I have seen diseases recover which " shouldn't have " . I have seen simple > illnesses continue when a minor psychological adjustment " should have fixed " > them. Perhaps the dominance of either the physical or psychological is also > dependent upon the > individual,and not able to be generalised. To make ourselves available for > healing is all we can do it seems to me, and wait for nature to do its thing. This is almost exactly how Florence Nightingale described the art of nursing... the practice of helping others to be in a place where nature can take its course. Her keynotes were cleanliness, compassion and empowerment. She was instrumental, during the Crimean War, in teaching physical and moral hygiene in a time when nursing was considered not much better than prostitution, and there was no germ theory to support her ideas. I've also seen spontaneous remissions in people with dire prognoses, " miracles " ; and I've also seen people turn their faces to the wall, so to speak, and will themselves to die when there was 'nothing wrong' with them. > It sounds like doing nothing, but doing nothing is not easily experienced by the > Western mind. By practising > allowing and accepting, we put ourselves at nature's disposal, rather than > trying to control it and the outcome to our disease. The " physical realities of > the body " often refer to the thoughts and feelings we have about our ailments > and imperfections. In other > words it's our response to them rather than the physical complaint itself which > is worrisome. Which is why some people handle say, arthritis, with a minimum of > fuss and others are crippled by it. That is a very good insight. There are many layers of " reality " available to us, but we live in one with some physical limitations. The trade off is the ability to learn the characteristics we've been discussing... gratitude, humility, compassion, forgiveness. It's our mortality that allows us to experience these things... but it's the immortal part of us that reminds us who we 'really are' isn't constrained by the physical. The people who do best coping with their physical limitations seem to have a good handle on their inner eternity... which means they are transcending the physical in an important way. It may not mean they will be 'cured' but it certainly indicates they can find 'healing' or wholeness. > This is not to deny the suffering of the physical ailments, but to explore our > relationship with ourselves, our disease and with nature as a way of allowing > the illnesss to depart. Sounds convoluted, I > know, but I'm trying to choose words carefully here to draw the distinction > between trying to make ourselves better and allowing ourselves to get better. There is a difference between trying and allowing. Trying implies that we know what is best, while allowing gets us out of the way. > Somehow this distinction is relevant to your question Caroline (to my mind at > least) as the distinction between the " physical realities " and the " potential of > the mind " is not dissimilar to the distinction between trying to control the > outcome and allowing nature to fulfil its healing potential. Perhaps the > physical realities can be regarded as the mental potentials given form (and > negative form in the case of illness) by trying to control them, out of fear. I > don't think we can expect to get through life without physical > illness, but the illness would probably go away of its own accord most of the > time if we took a back seat and allowed our immune system to get on with it, > instead of always trying to fix it. Again, I am reminded of the koan that pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. Our desire to fix things might be motivated by a wish to relieve suffering, when in fact the pain serves a purpose that we are unaware of and is not the direct cause of suffering in the first place. When we are sick and unhappy, we may think we are unhappy because we are sick, when in fact we may be sick because we are unhappy ;-/ Or, they may be unrelated occurences that we shouldn't draw hasty correlations about at all. > I hope this hasn't confused you as much as it has me. > Best wishes > Arjuna I think that, if you are confused, you are very eloquently confused ;-) Thanks for your post. Blessings, Crow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2001 Report Share Posted May 20, 2001 dear arjuna: please excuse by typing as I fell yesturday and broke my foot and tore ligaments in my right arm. I sat in the er last night wondering how i was going to 'be' with this from what i have learned here and elsewhere. 1st. I took responsibility that my guilt over buying expensive impratical shoes kept me wearing them untill I fell, which I worried would happen. so I manifested that one. 2. I fell on the birthday anniversary of my dad and sister who are now dead, so maybe some agenda there, 3. I've been over busy and rushed, so i've just slowed myself down for 6 weeks. the reason i write is about your post. the waiting thing. I think a big reason dr's over presribed antibiotics in the past is because in order for a person to heal they need to feel they've done everything they can, then they need to wait and " be " sick, ie rest, plenty fluids, etc, for a period of time, untill the disease runs its course and the immune system kicks in. that lenth of time is about the same usually as the number of days of antibiotic prescription. unfortunatly no one knew the dangers of using antibiotics as placebos for viruses. I refer to it as the period of time one " declares them selves a patent " vs, when they finially " declare themselves no longer a patient " , not being in the critical phase anylonger. Some people never declare this, which can be denial. others stay stuck in it. since often body creates illnesses, or accidents for agendas, to ignore those opportunities is to prolong the process i think. If i get a cold and keep on working, that cold will last longer for me. but if i " declare myself a patient, " even for one day, go home, rest, fluids, good movie, warm kitty etc. i get well sooner, as I'm listening to the " rest and wait " messages from my body. If the agenda is more negative, such as " attention getting " or something, atleast one day off gives time to reflect on how to get those needs met in a more elegant fashion. Although I have seen cases where disease, was infact the most elegant and efficient method for a certain person to get all thier needs met. sorry if i'm rambeling, but i've got alot of time to think about this, as right now i'm stuck in bed suddenly injured, furious at myself, lol and trying to find a better thought form for ultimate peace of mind, because this healing process needs nothing more than time. love, connie (I love everybody, and YOUR NEXT!) www.whateverworkswellness.com WhateverWorksWellness > levitron > > Sat, 19 May 2001 10:12:35 -0000 > > Medical research (cont.) > > Dear Caroline and Connie, > Thanks for your comments re this matter. > Caroline wrote: > " What do you think comprises the balance between the physical > realities of the body and the boundless potential of the mind? " > > I have seen diseases recover which " shouldn't have " . I have seen > simple illnesses continue when a minor psychological > adjustment " should have fixed " them. Perhaps the dominance of either > the physical or psychological is also dependent upon the > individual,and not able to be generalised. To make ourselves > available for healing is all we can do it seems to me, and wait for > nature to do its thing. It sounds like doing nothing, but doing > nothing is not easily experienced by the Western mind. By practising > allowing and accepting, we put ourselves at nature's disposal, rather > than trying to control it and the outcome to our disease. > The " physical realities of the body " often refer to the thoughts and > feelings we have about our ailments and imperfections. In other > words it's our response to them rather than the physical complaint > itself which is worrisome. Which is why some people handle say, > arthritis, with a minimum of fuss and others are crippled by it. > This is not to deny the suffering of the physical ailments, but to > explore our relationship with ourselves, our disease and with nature > as a way of allowing the illnesss to depart. Sounds convoluted, I > know, but I'm trying to choose words carefully here to draw the > distinction between trying to make ourselves better and allowing > ourselves to get better. > Somehow this distinction is relevant to your question Caroline (to my > mind at least) as the distinction between the " physical realities " > and the " potential of the mind " is not dissimilar to the distinction > between trying to control the outcome and allowing nature to fulfil > its healing potential. Perhaps the physical realities can be > regarded as the mental potentials given form (and negative form in > the case of illness) by trying to control them, out of fear. > I don't think we can expect to get through life without physical > illness, but the illness would probably go away of its own accord > most of the time if we took a back seat and allowed our immune system > to get on with it, instead of always trying to fix it. > I hope this hasn't confused you as much as it has me. > Best wishes > Arjuna > > > **************************************** > Visit the community page: > For administrative problems -owner > To , - > > All messages, files and archives of this forum are copyright of the > group and the individual authors. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2001 Report Share Posted May 21, 2001 A story to illustrate healing attitudes. 8 years ago, my mother had a stroke and status epileticus. She was in siezure for 22 hours and sunk into deep coma. When she awoke, which was its own miracle, she had long term memory loss, as well as some short term loss. She also lost most of her nouns, tho her verbs were good, different center of the brain. The net effect of the siezures tho were, like electro shock therapy, she forgot all the emotional reasons she had ever been bitter, guilty, sad, or angry. She just moved into her brand new awareness and began to grow emotionally from there. She had to relearn her history and eventually re remember it, but she never remembered her life long suffering. As a result, instead of living at most another 6 months, she lived another 6 years. She was not afraid of anything anymore, and no matter how her multiple diagnosis's effected and raged her body, her mind was non effected. She wasn't afraid of being sick at all. She had no negative association with it, instead saw it as interesting. Once when they rushed her via life squad to ER for heart failure, they asked her what the could do to make her more compfortable. She said, " the sirens would be nice, and take the corners really fast " . LOL She had a marvoulous time, and told me often of that adventure without any emphasis on all the other horrible things happening to her body. Before she died, in her last two years, she regained all of her memory, but her memory of her saddnesses was met with greater perspective and gratitude for what she also didn't loose. She finially recalled the death of her eldest son, and the feeling of a mothers loss, but then held me all the tighter and would try to memorize my features, and listen to my every word so she could savor her remaining child. This was such healing for me too. She told me that as the baby of the family she wished I could have just been carried around on a pillow all my life, rather then have to face the hard work of living in the world. What a wonderful feeling to have a mother wish that for me. She and I both were and are both very grateful for that stroke, as enourmous healing happened to us both on some very deep and spiritual levels. And I know have role model in my head of how I want to be with my physical body, emotional, and mental/spiritual quadrants. She is a hero to me. Thanks for listening to this. love connie > Caroline Abreu <carocrow > > Sat, 19 May 2001 19:59:06 -0400 > > Re: Medical research (cont.) > > Arjuna: > > Beautiful, as always. > > levitron wrote: > >> I have seen diseases recover which " shouldn't have " . I have seen simple >> illnesses continue when a minor psychological adjustment " should have fixed " >> them. Perhaps the dominance of either the physical or psychological is also >> dependent upon the >> individual,and not able to be generalised. To make ourselves available for >> healing is all we can do it seems to me, and wait for nature to do its thing. > > This is almost exactly how Florence Nightingale described the art of > nursing... > the practice of helping others to be in a place where nature can take its > course. > Her keynotes were cleanliness, compassion and empowerment. She was > instrumental, > during the Crimean War, in teaching physical and moral hygiene in a time when > nursing was considered not much better than prostitution, and there was no > germ > theory to support her ideas. > > I've also seen spontaneous remissions in people with dire prognoses, > " miracles " ; > and I've also seen people turn their faces to the wall, so to speak, and will > themselves to die when there was 'nothing wrong' with them. > >> It sounds like doing nothing, but doing nothing is not easily experienced by >> the >> Western mind. By practising >> allowing and accepting, we put ourselves at nature's disposal, rather than >> trying to control it and the outcome to our disease. The " physical realities >> of >> the body " often refer to the thoughts and feelings we have about our ailments >> and imperfections. In other >> words it's our response to them rather than the physical complaint itself >> which >> is worrisome. Which is why some people handle say, arthritis, with a minimum >> of >> fuss and others are crippled by it. > > That is a very good insight. There are many layers of " reality " available to > us, > but we live in one with some physical limitations. The trade off is the > ability > to learn the characteristics we've been discussing... gratitude, humility, > compassion, forgiveness. It's our mortality that allows us to experience > these > things... but it's the immortal part of us that reminds us who we 'really are' > isn't constrained by the physical. > > The people who do best coping with their physical limitations seem to have a > good > handle on their inner eternity... which means they are transcending the > physical > in an important way. It may not mean they will be 'cured' but it certainly > indicates they can find 'healing' or wholeness. > >> This is not to deny the suffering of the physical ailments, but to explore >> our >> relationship with ourselves, our disease and with nature as a way of allowing >> the illnesss to depart. Sounds convoluted, I >> know, but I'm trying to choose words carefully here to draw the distinction >> between trying to make ourselves better and allowing ourselves to get better. > > There is a difference between trying and allowing. Trying implies that we > know > what is best, while allowing gets us out of the way. > >> Somehow this distinction is relevant to your question Caroline (to my mind at >> least) as the distinction between the " physical realities " and the " potential >> of >> the mind " is not dissimilar to the distinction between trying to control the >> outcome and allowing nature to fulfil its healing potential. Perhaps the >> physical realities can be regarded as the mental potentials given form (and >> negative form in the case of illness) by trying to control them, out of fear. >> I >> don't think we can expect to get through life without physical >> illness, but the illness would probably go away of its own accord most of the >> time if we took a back seat and allowed our immune system to get on with it, >> instead of always trying to fix it. > > Again, I am reminded of the koan that pain is inevitable, but suffering is > optional. Our desire to fix things might be motivated by a wish to relieve > suffering, when in fact the pain serves a purpose that we are unaware of and > is > not the direct cause of suffering in the first place. > > When we are sick and unhappy, we may think we are unhappy because we are sick, > when in fact we may be sick because we are unhappy ;-/ Or, they may be > unrelated > occurences that we shouldn't draw hasty correlations about at all. > >> I hope this hasn't confused you as much as it has me. >> Best wishes >> Arjuna > > I think that, if you are confused, you are very eloquently confused ;-) > Thanks > for your post. > > Blessings, > Crow > > > **************************************** > Visit the community page: > For administrative problems -owner > To , - > > All messages, files and archives of this forum are copyright of the > group and the individual authors. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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