Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 Hello Connie... I'm always happy to learn something new, and quite content to be proven wrong. Whilst I'm sure you have seen people raise their energy, it's the statement of it being Kundalini that I'm in dispute with. There are two channels with run either side of the Shushumna Kundalini Shakti, called the Ida and Pingala. The energy here is VERY powerful, but it's not Kundalini. I'm not trying to make this more difficult than it is, but raising Kundalini is very very very difficult, requiring years of preparation under an experienced guru. No one could learn to do it from a book. No one could do it 'by accident' without causing themselves tremendous harm. I haven't seen what you are referring to (and I'd be VERY interested as clearly these people have some talent), but if they weren't Enlightened, they didn't raise Kundalini. They might have opened the Inner Channels or even managed to raise energy up the Ida and/or Pingala channels. If I am wrong, please teach me. Reiki, as I said earlier, only works if the energy is already present. Prayer, which is a form of meditiation, can generate Chi. There's no doubt of that, but there are no guarantees either. It's also extremely important to consider the psychological effect, as the individuals mind is incredibly important in these instances, and far more often than might be thought, the patient heals themselves. A Tai Chi Master would without doubt be able to heal. They are specialists in the generation of Chi. If no healing takes place (whether its through reiki or another modality) it's because they don't know how to direct the energies, which is entirely possible, especially in the West. Humility is the ability to keep the ego in it's place (essential for the energy to move) so I am in agreement on this notion, but even a genuine desire to assist will not guarantee success. I eagerly await your response!! Take care... =), Anne-Louise. > tink-im <tink-im > > Mon, 21 May 2001 19:00:00 -0400 > > Re: ... hip trouble ... > > Dear Anne_Louise: > I think your making some things a little to impossible when in fact they > may not need to be. Reiki for instance. There are curently some very good > studies, random/blind double groups etc, showing prayer to be effective in > healing. Prayer of any type. They just took any old group of people and > told them to prayer for group A. Group A, being a post operative group of > patients did infact do much better than the group not prayed for. So > something undefined is going on here. Now Reiki, if nothing else, is a > sincere prayer for the client. Based on studies, it would then be > effective. To what extent who knows. Also, studies show relaxation to be > effective in healing, Reiki helps both people relax more. Feeling loved > helps healing, Reiki is about paying attention to, loving another. > I understand chi ki, and pranic energy, but I don't think this is what > personal healing modalities such as Reiki, Healing touch etc are really > about. It's something deeper, more human and to that end, more spiritual. > The intention is everything. A Tai Chi master's hand energy can actually be > measured. That is real impressive, but if his/her intention is not humble > and sincere no healing happens with that hands on either. > As far as Kundalini. I have in fact seen people raise thier kundalini, > yes it is very powerful, and very intense, but I have seen it, and they were > not totally enlightened. I think that if your belief system requires that > something be very difficult, than it is. > Just my opinion on stuff, hope you hear it in the spirit of just sharing. > love > connie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 Dear Ann-Louise; Where do you get your information? Could you please provide some cites or some other sort of reference? Thank you. Florie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 > Dear Anne-Louise: It's not my intention to educate you, because what you believe obviously serves you well, and you feel you have adequate evidence for it, so who am I to tell you something different. I can only speak to what I've expeienced. I've told you that I've known people who have raised kundilini energy without what you discribed being the exact conditions. You say, that can't be so, because how you define it is the only way. Now you want me to prove you wrong, or would be content with that. Well, the key word here is " proven " . I can no more prove to you that what I witness and define is truth than can you. This is what I've witnessed with no preconcieved ideas about what it should or shouldn't be. I did not listen to another to define my reality of it. When you tell me, what you see and feel and believe, I listen. When you quote to me what your guru says, I can't hear that as well. I don't know this person, or know of his credentials well enough to intuit his sincerity. My first thought, tho probubly wrong, was that this person has elevated himself in your eyes by telling you that only he can do the impossible, or nearly impossible. The elders I look up to, say that it's all available to us, anytime, anywhere. But I also know, you probubly have little hearing for criticism of one you hold in such high respect. I don't want to shatter that, you may be right. How would I know. My husband is a Tai Chi Master, he does healing, and is emmensly talented, but he will tell you that there are no guarentees in healing, and he has honored many healers who have studied other modalities, such as Reiki, Healing Touch and the like. Just because you havn't experienced or believe that Reiki can have the kind of energy you discribe, doesn't mean that it doesn't have it, you've just never seen/felt it. But others most definatly have. I think we're getting bogged down in words. These things are subtle energies with many different names, depending on culture and belief. Is it so hard to believe that a different belief system would have a different word for what might be the same thing.? Now I will tell you that the people I've known who spoke about raising kundilini, I hold in high regard as well. Some of them are today famous in the field of energy and metaphysics. Not one to be a name dropper, you'll have to believe me, they are the real thing, they don't lie, and the are emmensly educated in these things. love connie > > Hello Connie... > > I'm always happy to learn something new, and quite content to be proven > wrong. Whilst I'm sure you have seen people raise their energy, it's the > statement of it being Kundalini that I'm in dispute with. There are two > channels with run either side of the Shushumna Kundalini Shakti, called the > Ida and Pingala. The energy here is VERY powerful, but it's not Kundalini. > I'm not trying to make this more difficult than it is, but raising Kundalini > is very very very difficult, requiring years of preparation under an > experienced guru. No one could learn to do it from a book. No one could do > it 'by accident' without causing themselves tremendous harm. I haven't seen > what you are referring to (and I'd be VERY interested as clearly these > people have some talent), but if they weren't Enlightened, they didn't raise > Kundalini. They might have opened the Inner Channels or even managed to > raise energy up the Ida and/or Pingala channels. If I am wrong, please teach > me. > > Reiki, as I said earlier, only works if the energy is already present. > Prayer, which is a form of meditiation, can generate Chi. There's no doubt > of that, but there are no guarantees either. It's also extremely important > to consider the psychological effect, as the individuals mind is incredibly > important in these instances, and far more often than might be thought, the > patient heals themselves. > > A Tai Chi Master would without doubt be able to heal. They are specialists > in the generation of Chi. > > If no healing takes place (whether its through reiki or another modality) > it's because they don't know how to direct the energies, which is entirely > possible, especially in the West. Humility is the ability to keep the ego in > it's place (essential for the energy to move) so I am in agreement on this > notion, but even a genuine desire to assist will not guarantee success. > > I eagerly await your response!! > > Take care... > > =), > > Anne-Louise. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 > Dear Connie and Anne-Louise, I've been reading your comments on energy and kundalini with interest. Twice I've experienced something by not trying to do anything, a method which I've come to trust (a bit). The first was when I was doing a breathing exercise and had the clearest experience of being rebirthed , aware of contractions, sliding down the birth canal etc. Why did I have this experience? I believe it was because I'd never heard of re-birthing at the time, and so I entered the breathing exercise with no pre-conceived notions and no intention. The second happened when I was meditating. I'd been on a 15 day retreat in a jungle somewhere in Sri Lanka. I was sitting quietly one day and had an experience of energy shooting up my spine which startled me. I knew nothing about meditating, I'd gone there having read about this Bhuddist monastery in a newspaper in Colombo. I knew nothing about Kundalini nor other energy discharges up the spine. I can now bring on this sensation, perhaps not as strongly as the first time I experienced it, at will. But I don't. I'm not afraid of it. I just see no need for it. I'm not sure what it is, and I sure find it interesting, but if it changed my life or my health it did so imperceptibly. A detailed description of the sensation I need to keep to myself, as anything mentioned about a practice gets imbedded in the mind of other people and becomes something to which they then aspire, pretty much guaranteeing that they won't experience it. These two experiences changed my focus from trying to make healing happen to allowing it to happen. Best wishes Arjuna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 There is always this scarey story around the Kundalini, that not done properly the kundalini can kill. But where is the documentation? What incident has shown this? Who, specificly, has died trying to raise the kundalini? rusty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2001 Report Share Posted May 23, 2001 Dear Rusty: What I always hear is, if the person ain't dead, then they didn't do it right. I've not seen such documentation, however there is very good objective study on the phenomen in the book, " The future of Man " . I don't know off hand where my copy is, but will look for it. love connie > " Rusty Morgan " <rustym > > Wed, 23 May 2001 08:39:02 -0700 > > Re: ... energy discussion ... > > There is always this scarey story around the Kundalini, that not done > properly the kundalini can kill. > But where is the documentation? > What incident has shown this? > Who, specificly, has died trying to raise the kundalini? > rusty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 Dear Arjuna: Those sound like pretty profound experiences. I wouldn't deny you any term you would want to use for them, kundilini or anything else. It sure sounds like it to me. Wow, wonderful to have such cool opportunities to observe the soul's response within the body. love connie > levitron > > Wed, 23 May 2001 09:28:55 -0000 > > Re: ... energy discussion ... > > >> Dear Connie and Anne-Louise, > > I've been reading your comments on energy and kundalini with interest. > Twice I've experienced something by not trying to do anything, a > method which I've come to trust (a bit). The first was when I was > doing a breathing exercise and had the clearest experience of being > rebirthed , aware of contractions, sliding down the birth canal > etc. Why did I have this experience? I believe it was because I'd > never heard of re-birthing at the time, and so I entered the > breathing exercise with no pre-conceived notions and no intention. > The second happened when I was meditating. I'd been on a 15 day > retreat in a jungle somewhere in Sri Lanka. I was sitting quietly > one day and had an experience of energy shooting up my spine which > startled me. I knew nothing about meditating, I'd gone there having > read about this Bhuddist monastery in a newspaper in Colombo. I knew > nothing about Kundalini nor other energy discharges up the spine. I > can now bring on this sensation, perhaps not as strongly as the first > time I experienced it, at will. But I don't. I'm not afraid of it. > I just see no need for it. I'm not sure what it is, and I sure find > it interesting, but if it changed my life or my health it did so > imperceptibly. A detailed description of the sensation I need to > keep to myself, as anything mentioned about a practice gets imbedded > in the mind of other people and becomes something to which they then > aspire, pretty much guaranteeing that they won't experience it. > These two experiences changed my focus from trying to make healing > happen to allowing it to happen. > Best wishes > Arjuna > > > **************************************** > Visit the community page: > For administrative problems -owner > To , - > > All messages, files and archives of this forum are copyright of the > group and the individual authors. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2001 Report Share Posted May 24, 2001 Hello... I see that I have expressed myself very badly, and have been seriously misunderstood. Looking back at what I have sent the list, I can see easily how some have received it, and this means that I was using language inappropriate for my experience to be shared. People have written a great deal and I am not able to respond to it all at the moment. There is much that I would say, but am constrained by time both by being at work, and from the fact that I am away for the weekend from tomorrow. I will absorb what people have written, and attempt to provide an adequate reponse next week. Enjoy the weekend, Anne-Louise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 Hello Arjuna & others following this thread, About 3 years ago I had a strange experience that I now consider to have been a kundalini rising. At the time I had never heard of Kundalini & it wasn't until my husband had a similar experience a few months ago that I stated looking into the phenomenon. I'll describe what happened in both cases. For mine: I had been on a herbal detox program using wild yam (which cleans out & balances the endocrine system) & I was having weird experiences of tons of energy even though i hardly slept for 3 nights. Then on the third night, while I was reading at 2 in the morning I felt this incredible electricity surging up & down my spine (like live wires) & then it would explode in my forehead in bursts of stars. It felt great, it was totally unexpected, & it has never happened again. Oh yes, just after that experience I got some very clear messages being flashed into my mind. Watch Oprah, the answers are in books, the answers are in you, too & save the children. As I said it was a one time experience for me but one I'll never forget. My husband's: We have just recently begun meditating & opening our chakras & one night during his sleep he experienced this strange sensation of red energy rising in figure 8s up his sides & felt like being squeezed & tossed from side to side (he thought maybe he was having a heart attack). Then he saw these arms strobing in front of him (through his 3rd eye because I was awake & his eyes were closed) & then the words Kundalini flashed into his mind over & over. He had no clue what Kundalini was but he had seen the word on the cover of a book in a book store (must have been a trigger). He woke up & told me of the experience & the next day i started doing research. I love how that happens, we have the experience & then we find out what it was. That leaves no doubt that it wasn't planned or expected. Seems more real to me that way. My husband has had a second rising during sleep, green energy coming from the heart & traveling up into the head but it was not as intense as the first experience. Also, this time he knew what was happening to him. I guess I am posting this to show that, for us, at least, we did not try to have these experiences, we didn't even know what they were so I can't personally agree with the gurus ( & the multitude of books) who say that K rising takes dedication & practice. I can attest that it does not. Thanks for listening & sharing Shapeshifter ... .. .. .. .. , levitron@l... wrote: > > > Dear Connie and Anne-Louise, > > I've been reading your comments on energy and kundalini with interest. > Twice I've experienced something by not trying to do anything, a > method which I've come to trust (a bit). The first was when I was > doing a breathing exercise and had the clearest experience of being > rebirthed , aware of contractions, sliding down the birth canal > etc. Why did I have this experience? I believe it was because I'd > never heard of re-birthing at the time, and so I entered the > breathing exercise with no pre-conceived notions and no intention. > The second happened when I was meditating. I'd been on a 15 day > retreat in a jungle somewhere in Sri Lanka. I was sitting quietly > one day and had an experience of energy shooting up my spine which > startled me. I knew nothing about meditating, I'd gone there having > read about this Bhuddist monastery in a newspaper in Colombo. I knew > nothing about Kundalini nor other energy discharges up the spine. I > can now bring on this sensation, perhaps not as strongly as the first > time I experienced it, at will. But I don't. I'm not afraid of it. > I just see no need for it. I'm not sure what it is, and I sure find > it interesting, but if it changed my life or my health it did so > imperceptibly. A detailed description of the sensation I need to > keep to myself, as anything mentioned about a practice gets imbedded > in the mind of other people and becomes something to which they then > aspire, pretty much guaranteeing that they won't experience it. > These two experiences changed my focus from trying to make healing > happen to allowing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 Dear Anne=Louise: Enjoy your weekend and not to worry, simple differences of opinion often happen from language deffinitions. love connie > Anne-Louise Lasley <rosebud76 > > Thu, 24 May 2001 19:35:06 +0100 > > Re: ... energy discussion ... > > Hello... > > I see that I have expressed myself very badly, and have been seriously > misunderstood. Looking back at what I have sent the list, I can see easily > how some have received it, and this means that I was using language > inappropriate for my experience to be shared. > > People have written a great deal and I am not able to respond to it all at > the moment. There is much that I would say, but am constrained by time both > by being at work, and from the fact that I am away for the weekend from > tomorrow. > > I will absorb what people have written, and attempt to provide an adequate > reponse next week. > > Enjoy the weekend, > > Anne-Louise. > > **************************************** > Visit the community page: > For administrative problems -owner > To , - > > All messages, files and archives of this forum are copyright of the > group and the individual authors. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2001 Report Share Posted May 27, 2001 , tink-im <tink-im@c...> wrote: > Dear Arjuna: > Those sound like pretty profound experiences. > connie > Hi Connie, Funny how things sound different in the retelling. You know, I regard neither experience as profound as they didn't seem to have any profound effects. I'm a bit of a believer in the incremental changes in life. Too much too soon = problems later. They were interesting though, that's for sure. Thanks for getting back Arjuna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2001 Report Share Posted June 1, 2001 Connie... I would like to think that you might want to educate me if you feel that there is another perspective that I might benefit from. Truth is a relative thing, and one of the ways that I learn is through the experience of others. If I find that another's experience or perspective speaks to me more, then I usually adapt that into my views according to what resonates. Truth is whatever works. Better truth is that which works better, etc. Enlightenment is available to everyone at any time, this is true. It has even been available to me however briefly, and so it seems reasonable to conclude that if I am worthy, then all must be. In truth we are simply seeing our own nature, our selves as we truly are, so it would be ludicrous to suggest that is available only to a few, as everyone has a nature. I understand your comments about hearing about my own experiences but not being able to regard anything I report from a third party (my teacher for instance). Just for your information, he has not elevated himself in my eyes by what he has told me, but by the way he lives his life. It is simple, practical, and even in the absence of any suggestions as to definitive spiritual attainment, is a fine example of how to neutralise difficulties as they occur, and how to live in a centered, functional way. If I learn nothing else from him, this will have been worthwhile. -Anne-Louise. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It's not my intention to educate you, because what you believe obviously serves you well, and you feel you have adequate evidence for it, so who am I to tell you something different. I can only speak to what I've expeienced. I've told you that I've known people who have raised kundilini energy without what you discribed being the exact conditions. You say, that can't be so, because how you define it is the only way. Now you want me to prove you wrong, or would be content with that. Well, the key word here is " proven " . I can no more prove to you that what I witness and define is truth than can you. This is what I've witnessed with no preconcieved ideas about what it should or shouldn't be. I did not listen to another to define my reality of it. When you tell me, what you see and feel and believe, I listen. When you quote to me what your guru says, I can't hear that as well. I don't know this person, or know of his credentials well enough to intuit his sincerity. My first thought, though probubly wrong, was that this person has elevated himself in your eyes bytelling you that only very few people can do these very difficult things, or the nearly impossible. The elders I look up to, say that it's all available to us, anytime, anywhere. But I also know, you probubly have little hearing for criticism of one you hold in such high respect. I don't want to shatter that, you may be right. How would I know? My friend is a Tai Chi Master, he does healing, and is emmensly talented, but he will tell you that there are no guarentees in healing, and he has honored many healers who have studied other modalities, such as Reiki, Healing Touch and the like. Just because you havn't experienced or believe that Reiki can have the kind of energy you discribe, doesn't mean that it doesn't have it, you've just never seen/felt it. But others most definatly have. I think we're getting bogged down in words. These things are subtle energies with many different names, depending on culture and belief. Is it so hard to believe that a different belief system would have a different word for what might be the same thing. Now I will tell you that the people I've known who spoke about raising kundilini, I hold in high regard as well. Some of them are today famous in the field of energy and metaphysics. Not one to be a name dropper, you'll have to believe me, they are the real thing, they don't lie, and the are emmensly educated in these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 >Dear Anne-Louise: I would not try nor want to eductate you unless you truly wanted that. I don't see my knowledge as a " civil service job " LOL. I'm glad to share my expiences knowing they are no less valid than the next persons. If I move into believing I have the only truth, then I've closed the door to my learning. I'm glad your teacher has so much to show you and that your gaining from it. But just because a thoery works for one person in thier lives, doesn't mean its necessarily universal. I believe a teacher should walk thier talk, yes, but just the walk alone doesn't make him/her always the best teacher. If so, everyone who is happy with thier lives can be a master. For instance, if I know someone who has paid off thier mobile home, enjoys playing with thier grandchildren, and planting flowers, and meditates by doing crochet. This is a life that works, this is a life of serenity and mastery. But is this a guru? Ram Dass got a piece of enlightenment from a grandmother who crochets. But I think he would consider her far different as a guru than he would say, the Dalai Lama, that's just a guess. If that were the case, people would be sitting at the feet of thier grandparents, rather than crossing the world to be with a guru. And upon reflection of this statement, I'm not sure that the more valid path, is the one sitting at the feet of the grandmother. Somewhere along the way, we've lost this sacred ritual, and we and the grandparents are suffering for the loss. In essence, there are many wise and elegant elders in our world who never get listened to. What are our credential mandates for those we allow to instruct us? love connie > > > I would like to think that you might want to educate me if you feel that > there is another perspective that I might benefit from. Truth is a relative > thing, and one of the ways that I learn is through the experience of others. > If I find that another's experience or perspective speaks to me more, then I > usually adapt that into my views according to what resonates. Truth is > whatever works. Better truth is that which works better, etc. > > Enlightenment is available to everyone at any time, this is true. It has > even been available to me however briefly, and so it seems reasonable to > conclude that if I am worthy, then all must be. In truth we are simply > seeing our own nature, our selves as we truly are, so it would be ludicrous > to suggest that is available only to a few, as everyone has a nature. > > I understand your comments about hearing about my own experiences but not > being able to regard anything I report from a third party (my teacher for > instance). Just for your information, he has not elevated himself in my eyes > by what he has told me, but by the way he lives his life. It is simple, > practical, and even in the absence of any suggestions as to definitive > spiritual attainment, is a fine example of how to neutralise difficulties as > they occur, and how to live in a centered, functional way. If I learn > nothing else from him, this will have been worthwhile. > > -Anne-Louise. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 Dear Connie; Thank you for that timely reminder that there are gurus walking among us every day, and that there are lessons to be learned from those whom we may, at first, consider 'just folks'. It was that common touch, that 'just folks' attitude that made some of our greatest masters as great as they were. I appreciate that reminder. F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 Connie: That is such a beautiful and important reminder. Our elders know things we never will, unless we 'sit at their feet' as you put it. Every generation, we learn new things, but we can lose contact with our roots in the process... like the ever-reaching top branches of a tree, we still have to remember that our nourishment comes from the earth below us, by way of those that have come before and paved our way so that each generation can reach farther to the sky. I recently read that there are endangered languages, and that in each of these dying ways of speaking there are expressions that exist in no other tongue. Blessings, Crow tink-im wrote: > > Ram Dass got a piece of > enlightenment from a > grandmother who crochets. But I think he would consider her > far different > as a guru than he would say, the Dalai Lama, that's just a > guess. If that > were the case, people would be sitting at the feet of thier > grandparents, > rather than crossing the world to be with a guru. And upon > reflection of > this statement, I'm not sure that the more valid path, is the > one sitting at > the feet of the grandmother. Somewhere along the way, we've > lost this > sacred ritual, and we and the grandparents are suffering for > the loss. > In essence, there are many wise and elegant elders in our world > who never > get listened to. What are our credential mandates for those we > allow to > instruct us? > love > connie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2001 Report Share Posted June 3, 2001 Dear Crow " That is such a sad thought. To loose whole expressions. Like a set of emotions, feelings, etc could be gone. love connie > > I recently read that there are endangered languages, and that in > each of these dying ways of speaking there are expressions that > exist in no other tongue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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