it takes genius to make things simple

[Guest guest]

Hi Anat

What about trying to live in the here and now? I am like you, filled with

thoughts and knowing little/lots about different subjects and constantly

striving for a simplier life process.

A friend advised, that when I was in doubt or facing a situation where I really

needed to focus and channel my energies, that I should trying thinking 'here and

now'. There is no past, there is no future, only right here, and right now...

The times that I succeed in this thinking are probably some of the most valued

times of my life - I actually feel a geninue satisfaction and happiness - a

simple feeling yet previously unobtainable due to scattered thinking and

focussed aims!

Each day I try to spend an hour or more (as long as possible) not thinking about

Zen, meditation or yoga or herbs or anything else, just what I am doing right

then and there! In fact, such an experience is rather Zen, just thinking about

'the moment' - it never goes away does it

Best wishes

Yvonne

Anat Cohen <anatcohn wrote: Crow

your quote evoked in me something that i wanted to share for months with

this group

 

I long for simple thinking, for pure thoughts like children think and see

things in their eyes. Very often I wonder if this enormous attraction to

energy-stuff, body-mind and knowledge in homeopathy, miracles etc, is not

complicating me

and my thoughts.

In a way It reminds the difference between Zorba and his friend (The

writer). Zorba was not complicating things so he was a doer, straight

forward, simple and genious and he was joyous.

Jois de vivre!

The writer was the opposite... in a way. with lots of knowledge in books

..... but he did not live fully.

 

 

In a way by trying to be so knowledgeable and accumulate more pieces of

information - is trying to be manipulative .... and this complicates and

spoils the purity of the simple thought.

 

Sometimes i envy " simple " people who know very little about alternative

medicine, healing, yoga, meditation , fractal pattern astrology, chinese

medicine, vedic medicine, positive thinking, vitamins, martial arts

phylosophies awareness , or the mercola site ... and they follow their

" simple little " mundane goals day after day like kids without getting

complicated. and guess what they do very fine without reading spiritual

books or quotes about simplicity:-)

 

so i keep thinking: May be i chose the wrong way? or he convoluted

way? -Then creep inside hesitations, indecisiveness, guilt, critisizm ,

fear and i feel stucked. what a complication ? Ahhha! What can be done to

think like a kid again? to be free and simple and light,,,,

 

Please share your thoughts with me.

Anat

 

 

----- äåãòä î÷åøéú -----

îàú: " nrgbalance "

àì:

ðùìç: éåí ùéùé 10 îàé 2002 16:50

ðåùà: Re: complex vs plain structures

 

 

> Rich:

>

> I read a great quote this morning that basically said that it takes

> genius to make things simple. I think that for all the arcanity we

> perceive in our ignorance, nature is exquisitely logical, direct and

> interrelated.

>

> Of course there are fractal patterns, but I think that there is a

> certain logic to them that we can't comprehend (and may never), as

> many phenomena, such as lightning, work in a fractal pattern.

>

> I've often said the same thing about energy work... we tend as humans

> to desire it to be full of pomp and ritual, when in fact it works

> just as well if not better when it is distilled to intention and

> connection. All the extraneous bits enhance the atmosphere, but the

> most important bit is the simplest part, the mindset of the person

> seeking healing and the person present to facilitate it.

>

> I think the point of the information about the water articles is

> about intention. Have you read " The Simarillion " , by Tolkien? As an

> exercise in memory after watching " Lord of the Rings " I re-read The

> Hobbit and the Tolkien trilogy, and I'm starting on The Lost Tales

> and The Simarillion. At any rate, I think Tolkien's beautiful

> creation myth speaks of his deep understanding of emergence; in the

> beginning was music, and everything came from it. Music/sound being

> one of the most basic forms of mathematics, it is easy to see how

> that might be so... that the word was made manifest, so to speak. In

> a personal sense, the word can manifest in myriad ways, and perhaps

> we should just be asking for the best possible outcome, rather than

> one of our own design, since what we create in our hubris may be much

> more complicated than necessary, and possibly misguided ;-)

>

> Blessings,

> Crow

>

>

>

> ****************************************

> home page:

> FAQ: http://www.geocities.com/nrgbalance/bmfaq.html

> For List Help Email: -owner

> To UNSUBSCRIBE Email: -

>

> All messages, files and archives of this forum are Copyright

group and the individual authors.

>

>

[Guest guest]

hello,

 

>I long for simple thinking, for pure thoughts like children think and see

>things in their eyes. Very often I wonder if this enormous attraction to

>energy-stuff, body-mind and knowledge in homeopathy, miracles etc, is not

>complicating me and my thoughts.

 

Simple can be wonderful

but do keep in mind, the overwhelming majority of those who are " simple "

simply do without.

The main difference being that they don't know they are doing without

-Ignorance is bliss-

 

steve

 

" I once was ignorant of chocolate icecream.

Now I have the burdon of enjoying it "

[Guest guest]

hello,

 

>

> Hi Anat

>What about trying to live in the here and now? I am like you,

>filled with thoughts and knowing little/lots about different

>subjects and constantly striving for a simplier life process.

>A friend advised, that when I was in doubt or facing a

>situation where I really needed to focus and channel my

>energies, that I should trying thinking 'here and now'.

>There is no past, there is no future, only right here, and right now...

 

Living in the 'here and now' is a personality trait.

When Meyers and Briggs did their personality research, they

developed a tool for measuring how much a person does this

naturally.

 

Using their MBTI tool, or similar, you can measure your

natural tendancy to be in the here and now.

 

Kirsey has made a similar evaluation tool available on the web

https://www.advisorteam.com/user/login.asp

 

The 'perceiver' personality trait is the 'hear and now' type

the complement type is called judger.

 

This judger/perceiver type is actually the easiest of the

measured personality types to change

(and change quickly whenever convenient)

 

Timeline Therapy is an excellent tool for changing

one's personality quickly (2-3 seconds with practice) and easily.

 

Steve

[Guest guest]

Anat Cohen wrote:

> so i keep thinking: May be i chose the wrong way? or he convoluted

> way? -Then creep inside hesitations, indecisiveness, guilt, critisizm ,

> fear and i feel stucked. what a complication ? Ahhha! What can be done to

> think like a kid again? to be free and simple and light,,,,

>

> Please share your thoughts with me.

> Anat

 

 

I know that " stuck " feeling. I call it analysis-paralysis.

 

Some people live entirely in their heads. They react to the images in

their

minds rather than to physical reality. In a sense, they are

disconnected

from their body. They don't feel muscle tension until it becomes an

ache

which needs medication/treatment. They're out of touch, so to speak.

 

Spirit, mind, and body are all equally important. Ignoring any of the

three

will cause some sort of illness.

 

Balance, balance, balance.

 

Bompa

[Guest guest]

> Anat Cohen <anatcohn

>Re: it takes genius to make things simple

>

>I love this post.

>

>It resonates inside.

>I agree that simple + enlighted are almost the same.

>

>It also makes sound that regression will just " complicate more " - because

>you try manipulating....

>

>

>What is the way to step forward to the third phase?

>Anat

 

That's been the million dollar question in my life! I've been blessed with

more than my fair share of the anxiety and depression of " complex

consciousness. " My life's journey has been to reclaim my body and my soul, and

it sort of forces me in the direction of " enlightened consciousness " whether I

want it or not!

 

I have far to go still, but a major key to the progress I've made has been my

experience of the Trager approach to bodywork; “reincarnating,” reintegrating

mind and body in a very existential or zen like way; learning to be in my body,

in my mind, in the moment, and then fluid moving on to whatever's next; not

being stuck in the anxiety state of trying to maintain stasis, stuck in my

wounded past and/or fearful of an unknowable and uncontrollable future. (The

fluid state is often more the exception then the rule, I still live much of the

time in a " disembodied " anxiety state, but I'm moving in the right direction!)

 

I believe that some sort of mediatative practice or experience is imperative to

finding “elightened” consciousness; it doesn’t have to be mediation per se, but

any visceral experience where mind, body, sprit, heart and soul are fully

present and fully engaged and fully alive. (Gabrielle Roth, who teaches dance

and movement as a transformational practice says “Sweat your prayers.”)

 

Many other influences have helped me to understand my past and free myself from

it to live in the present and move forward. Along with visceral meditative

practices, I believe that there’s also a need for work done at a cognitive

level. Jungian interpretation (such as the Transformation book I wrote about)

has been tremendously helpful as a methophorical lens through which I can make

sense of my personal suffering and the craziness of world at large;

" rescripting " my negative internal voices and creating a spiritual framework to

make sense of the craziness of the world at large.

 

>one more thing

>

>The idea of 3 phases might be as in breathing.

>

>1: autonomus breathing: deep and right like babies do, children,

>spontanouesly with out being concious

>

>2: As adults we experience emotions fear, anxiety, anger then the breath is

>getting complicated - not flowing.... might have problems

>

>

>3: enlighted : concious breathing.... knowing to breath deepand right....

>being aware to your breathing

>

 

As I become more conscious, I become more aware of how often my breathing is

shallow and constricted, both a cause and effect of anxiety, deep full body

breathing is also, as you mention, a part of the healing and consciousness work.

 

 

 

 

___________

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other long distance provider and is very competitively priced. In addition we

donate a percentage of our profits to The Nature Conservancy, our statements and

phone cards are made of recycled materials, and our website is completely solar

powered! To learn more visit: http://www.redjellyfish.com/longdistance

[Guest guest]

Anat Cohen wrote:

>

> I love this post.

>

> It resonates inside.

> I agree that simple + enlighted are almost the same.

>

> It also makes sound that regression will just " complicate more " - because

> you try manipulating....

>

> What is the way to step forward to the third phase?

> Anat

 

 

" ...can be attained by highly motivated people after much work and training... "

 

 

Something tells me we're discussing this on the wrong list, but oh well.

 

The work of becoming enlightened is the work of forsaking ego-self, that

self that you think is you. Are you willing to give up who you think you

are? everything that makes you " you " ? everything that makes you an atonomous

individual?

 

Or do you still think that you can think your way out of your illusory world?

Your illusions, (waking nightmares), are caused by your thinking, more thinking

will not end them.

 

Dave

[Guest guest]

" ...The only true difference between them is that the enlightened man is

conscious of his condition, while the simple man is not... "

 

The " simple man " , as you call him, is aware of very little, the enlightened

person has an awareness that pervades the universe.

 

Dave.

[Guest guest]

Dave wrote,

 

>The work of becoming enlightened is the work of forsaking ego-self, that

>self that you think is you. Are you willing to give up who you think you

>are? everything that makes you " you " ? everything that makes you an atonomous

>individual?

>

>Or do you still think that you can think your way out of your illusory

>world?

>Your illusions, (waking nightmares), are caused by your thinking, more

>thinking

>will not end them.

 

That's the paradox, isn't it?

 

Who is that " you " that gets to give up " you " ?

 

The ego isn't capable of getting rid of itself.

 

>Something tells me we're discussing this on the wrong list, but oh well.

 

What list would be handling such a topic?

 

Alex

[Guest guest]

Alexandra Soltow wrote:

 

> That's the paradox, isn't it?

>

> Who is that " you " that gets to give up " you " ?

>

> The ego isn't capable of getting rid of itself.

>

 

The ego is capable of giving itself up, being absorbed by something

greater than itself. The " company man " gives himself to the company.

A soldier gives his life for his country. An activist gives herself

up to her cause and she becomes that cause. A musician becomes the

instrument.

 

Haven't you ever belonged to a group, or team, and given up your self-

interest for the sake of the group? Didn't your consciousness rise

from the individual level to the group level?

 

 

The ego can not, as you put it, " get rid of itself " , but it can immerse

itself in something greater and thereby achieve the desired results.

 

The ego of the ordinary person is hard and solid like a block of ice.

The ego of a mystic is transparent and unsusceptible like a thin mist.

 

Just one man's opinion,

Dave

[Guest guest]

That's right. The sense of identity shifts from " I am this body "

or " I am this mind " to " I AM ALL " or " I AM THAT I AM " - recognizing

itself in everything.

 

The sense of self shifts from that which is " mortal " and limited to

that which is " immortal " and omnipresent.

 

Not really a paradox, is it?

 

Blessings,

 

Laura

 

, Dave Benware <Bompa@t...> wrote:

> Alexandra Soltow wrote:

>

> > That's the paradox, isn't it?

> >

> > Who is that " you " that gets to give up " you " ?

> >

> > The ego isn't capable of getting rid of itself.

> >

>

> The ego is capable of giving itself up, being absorbed by something

> greater than itself. The " company man " gives himself to the

company.

> A soldier gives his life for his country. An activist gives

herself

> up to her cause and she becomes that cause. A musician becomes the

> instrument.

>

> Haven't you ever belonged to a group, or team, and given up your

self-

> interest for the sake of the group? Didn't your consciousness rise

> from the individual level to the group level?

>

>

> The ego can not, as you put it, " get rid of itself " , but it can

immerse

> itself in something greater and thereby achieve the desired

results.

>

> The ego of the ordinary person is hard and solid like a block of

ice.

> The ego of a mystic is transparent and unsusceptible like a thin

mist.

>

> Just one man's opinion,

> Dave

[Guest guest]

Alex...

 

> What list would be handling such a topic?

>

.

 

--

------------------------------

Joel P. Bowman, Ph.D.

Email: joel.bowman

Department of Business Information Systems

Western Michigan University

http://spider.hcob.wmich.edu/~bowman

------------------------------

[Guest guest]

> What list would be handling such a topic?

 

First to Dave:

Transcend doe not mean foraske.

Alex and Dave: This URL is not a group re: enlightenment but for direction,

suggested readings, and links check out:

http://www.meditationsociety.com/

 

rsuty

 

-

" Alexandra Soltow " <pamra

 

Monday, May 20, 2002 7:57 PM

Re: it takes genius to make things simple

 

 

> Dave wrote,

>

> >The work of becoming enlightened is the work of forsaking ego-self, that

> >self that you think is you. Are you willing to give up who you think you

> >are? everything that makes you " you " ? everything that makes you an

atonomous

> >individual?

> >

> >Or do you still think that you can think your way out of your illusory

> >world?

> >Your illusions, (waking nightmares), are caused by your thinking, more

> >thinking

> >will not end them.

>

> That's the paradox, isn't it?

>

> Who is that " you " that gets to give up " you " ?

>

> The ego isn't capable of getting rid of itself.

>

> >Something tells me we're discussing this on the wrong list, but oh well.

>

> What list would be handling such a topic?

>

> Alex

[Guest guest]

Dave wrote,

 

>The ego is capable of giving itself up, being absorbed by something

>greater than itself. The " company man " gives himself to the company.

>A soldier gives his life for his country. An activist gives herself

>up to her cause and she becomes that cause. A musician becomes the

>instrument.

>

>Haven't you ever belonged to a group, or team, and given up your self-

>interest for the sake of the group? Didn't your consciousness rise

>from the individual level to the group level?

>

>

>The ego can not, as you put it, " get rid of itself " , but it can immerse

>itself in something greater and thereby achieve the desired results.

 

The ego can *become* immersed in something greater than itself, but the ego

is not the entity that makes the decision to dissolve. It can put itself in

an optimal place, like a surfer positioning him/herself to catch the next

wave, or a musician surrounding him/herself with kindred players, but the

carrying away happens prompted by a source other than the ego. And there is

nothing the ego can do to cause itself to be pre-empted, other than to do

the preparatory work.

 

Alex

[Guest guest]

>

> >Something tells me we're discussing this on the wrong list, but oh

well.

>

> What list would be handling such a topic?

>

> Alex

 

 

Hi,

I can offer a suggestion here. There is a list " The_Now " based

on the best selling book The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. Not being

affected by the " ego self " or it's cohorts the past and the future

are the main topics of discussion. The book has powerful teachings

not about resisting or killing the ego but by living in the present

moment, which is truly all we ever have, to transcend the ego. I

facilitate a group study on the material and can truly say it has

changed my life. You could check out this group by going to

www.The_Now

Love and light,

Mary

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

 

I am new so bear with me. I have studied the body and mind also the

spirit now for sometime. My spelling is not really bad but not

colledge level either. My typing is the worst. I check and recheck

and some how aways miss something.

 

I have found when the subject of ego comes up it is like saying satan

or devil or evil which it is not. The ego is not a bad thing to be

taken over by some power. You are to honor it as part of yourself.

For that is truly what it is, part of yourslef. If you are not

fighting you are not accepting the idea that anything has more power

than you have. Whether you are a physical being or spiritual you have

one. It is part of you as a co-creater. It is not good or bad it

depends on what you choose, by what you percieve, by things learned

and accepted and/or by freewill.

 

There are some 8000+ thoughts that go through our minds, with all of

our senses in any given hour. It just depends on the thoughts you

hang on to that brings you to where you are right now. Do you want to

stay there or do you want something else. There are many decisions to

be made by the way we see them and the way and what we learn.

 

As far as other groups that may discuss this subject. Echart Tolle

(sp?) as mentioned. A Course In Miracles Groups/ACIM. Conversations

with God groups/CWG, and some that follow this line of thinking also

study the Urantia, though I haven't been to any of their groups, some

one sent me a CD of the book to look over and it is mentioned in

these type of circles. As far as I can see though it can be dicussed

here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Alexandra Soltow <pamra@r...> wrote:

> Dave wrote,

>

> >The ego is capable of giving itself up, being absorbed by something

> >greater than itself. The " company man " gives himself to the

company.

> >A soldier gives his life for his country. An activist gives

herself

> >up to her cause and she becomes that cause. A musician becomes the

> >instrument.

> >

> >Haven't you ever belonged to a group, or team, and given up your

self-

> >interest for the sake of the group? Didn't your consciousness rise

> >from the individual level to the group level?

> >

> >

> >The ego can not, as you put it, " get rid of itself " , but it can

immerse

> >itself in something greater and thereby achieve the desired

results.

>

> The ego can *become* immersed in something greater than itself, but

the ego

> is not the entity that makes the decision to dissolve. It can put

itself in

> an optimal place, like a surfer positioning him/herself to catch

the next

> wave, or a musician surrounding him/herself with kindred players,

but the

> carrying away happens prompted by a source other than the ego. And

there is

> nothing the ego can do to cause itself to be pre-empted, other than

to do

> the preparatory work.

>

> Alex

[Guest guest]

>The ego is not a bad thing to be

> taken over by some power.

_______

 

You're spot on here, enquizical,

The Ego is here for a good reason.

We cannot survive without it.

The misunderstanding that the Ego must be forsaken in order to attain higher

consciousness, actually blocks the elevation of consciousness.

In order to transcend the Ego one must have a strong Ego.

The Ego is the keeper of the body temple.

Draw a small circle on a piece of paper and call it the Ego.

Then draw a larger circle that INCLUDES the smaller one and you have pair

bond or family consciousness.

This is the first quantum* leap of consciousness.

Now draw a larger circle that includes the nuclear family and the Ego and

this is WE/US or group consciousness.

And a larger circle including the others and this is humankind

consciousness, another quantum leap.

Now draw an infinitely larger circle including the other circles and you

have transcendent or God consciousness.

This it the ultimate quantum leap.

When one joins the team, gang, army, group or tribe, one's first duty is to

keep the body healthy, sane and strong in order to serve the group and that

my friends, is the Ego's job. To deny the Ego is to deny the Self.

Transcendence of Ego INCLUDES the Ego.

Having said that, now one must give up attachment to the ego's desires in

order to be free to rise to a higher consciousness.

It's not desire itself, which is the creative force, that one must forsake,

but attachment to the results of our efforts to fulfill those desires. These

attachments or addictions hold us in the inner circle and limit our

experience of life

 

Love it ALL.

rusty

* quantum referring to the orbiting electrons around the nucleus of the

atom; two in the first ring, and when you add one more it LEAPS to the next

ring. This is a quantum leap, To The Next Level. But the atom include all

levels. The Ego is the first level

ry

 

 

 

-

" enquizical " <soulparenting

 

Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:29 PM

Re: it takes genius to make things simple

 

 

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I am new so bear with me. I have studied the body and mind also the

> spirit now for sometime. My spelling is not really bad but not

> colledge level either. My typing is the worst. I check and recheck

> and some how aways miss something.

>

> I have found when the subject of ego comes up it is like saying satan

> or devil or evil which it is not. The ego is not a bad thing to be

> taken over by some power. You are to honor it as part of yourself.

> For that is truly what it is, part of yourslef. If you are not

> fighting you are not accepting the idea that anything has more power

> than you have. Whether you are a physical being or spiritual you have

> one. It is part of you as a co-creater. It is not good or bad it

> depends on what you choose, by what you percieve, by things learned

> and accepted and/or by freewill.

>

> There are some 8000+ thoughts that go through our minds, with all of

> our senses in any given hour. It just depends on the thoughts you

> hang on to that brings you to where you are right now. Do you want to

> stay there or do you want something else. There are many decisions to

> be made by the way we see them and the way and what we learn.

>

> As far as other groups that may discuss this subject. Echart Tolle

> (sp?) as mentioned. A Course In Miracles Groups/ACIM. Conversations

> with God groups/CWG, and some that follow this line of thinking also

> study the Urantia, though I haven't been to any of their groups, some

> one sent me a CD of the book to look over and it is mentioned in

> these type of circles. As far as I can see though it can be dicussed

> here.

>

, Alexandra Soltow <pamra@r...> wrote:

> > Dave wrote,

> >

> > >The ego is capable of giving itself up, being absorbed by something

> > >greater than itself. The " company man " gives himself to the

> company.

> > >A soldier gives his life for his country. An activist gives

> herself

> > >up to her cause and she becomes that cause. A musician becomes the

> > >instrument.

> > >

> > >Haven't you ever belonged to a group, or team, and given up your

> self-

> > >interest for the sake of the group? Didn't your consciousness rise

> > >from the individual level to the group level?

> > >

> > >

> > >The ego can not, as you put it, " get rid of itself " , but it can

> immerse

> > >itself in something greater and thereby achieve the desired

> results.

> >

> > The ego can *become* immersed in something greater than itself, but

> the ego

> > is not the entity that makes the decision to dissolve. It can put

> itself in

> > an optimal place, like a surfer positioning him/herself to catch

> the next

> > wave, or a musician surrounding him/herself with kindred players,

> but the

> > carrying away happens prompted by a source other than the ego. And

> there is

> > nothing the ego can do to cause itself to be pre-empted, other than

> to do

> > the preparatory work.

> >

> > Alex

>

>

>

> ****************************************

> home page:

> FAQ: http://www.geocities.com/nrgbalance/bmfaq.html

> For List Help Email: -owner

> To UNSUBSCRIBE Email: -

>

> All messages, files and archives of this forum are Copyright

group and the individual authors.

>

>

[Guest guest]

enquizical wrote:

> " ...I have found when the subject of ego comes up it is like saying satan

> or devil or evil which it is not. The ego is not a bad thing to be... "

 

 

I have found just the opposite, usually, people say the ego is a good

thing. So far, you, Rusty, Anat, and nrgbalance have posted that the

ego is a good thing, but show me one post in this thread where someone

said the ego was bad.

 

Let's back up a bit. nrgbalance mentioned three states of consciousness,

the third being the enlightened state. Then Anat asked the question, how

does one attain the third state of consciousness. Part of my response

used the term " ego-self " as follows:

 

" The work of becoming enlightened is the work of forsaking ego-self, that

self that you think is you. Are you willing to give up who you think you

are? everything that makes you " you " ? everything that makes you an atonomous

individual? "

 

 

In this context, ego-self was just one way of saying...

That self that you think you are.

Who you think you are.

Everything that makes you you.

Everything that makes you an autonomous being.

 

I was saying one needs to forsake one's sense of who they are.

 

Anyway...Alex responded using the term " ego " and I followed up using the term

" ego " ,

and now that is the entire focus of the thread, but that was not my original

meaning.

 

Actually, the focus of the thread now is how wonderful the ego is. How

beatuiful,

how holy the ego is. Given to us by God, Himself. Sacred.

 

Now if you're following Louise Hay, (and many others), these statements are true

for you and I would not argue them for one minute. But Louise Hay does not

teach

the path to enlightenment, does she?

 

What Louise Hay teaches is mental health, mental growth. What I was talking

about is spiritual growth, which is on a slighty different playing field.

 

 

So...I will niether defend nor attack " ego " . Ego, in and of itself, is

irrelevent to the original question.

 

 

thanks,

Dave.