Guest guest Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 > Fri, 10 May 2002 18:07:54 +0300 > Anat Cohen <anatcohn > it takes genius to make things simple > I long for simple thinking, for pure thoughts like children think and > see things in their eyes. Very often I wonder if this enormous >attraction to energy-stuff, body-mind and knowledge in homeopathy, >miracles etc, is not complicating me > and my thoughts. > In a way It reminds the difference between Zorba and his friend ..... > > In a way by trying to be so knowledgeable and accumulate more pieces >of information - is trying to be manipulative .... and this complicate >and spoils the purity of the simple thought. > > Sometimes i envy " simple " people who know very little about >alternative medicine, healing, yoga, meditation , fractal pattern >astrology, chinese medicine, vedic medicine, positive thinking, >vitamins, martial arts phylosophies awareness , or the mercola >site ... and they follow their " simple little " mundane goals day >after day like kids without getting complicated. and guess what they >do very fine without reading spiritual books or quotes about >simplicity:-) > > so i keep thinking: May be i chose the wrong way? or he convoluted > way? -Then creep inside hesitations, indecisiveness, guilt, >critisizm, fear and i feel stucked. what a complication ? Ahhha! >What can be done to think like a kid again? to be free and simple and >light,,,, > > Please share your thoughts with me. > Anat > A book that has helped me with my own version of the conundrum you describe is: " Transformation: Understanding the Three Levels of Masculine Consciousness " by Robert A. Johnson He’s a Jungian analyst who has written a number of books that interpret mythology and classical literature to help explain the evolution of individual and collective (un)consciousness. (Masculine (vs. Feminine) is referring to the " masculine " aspect of every person's psyche, the internal *masculine* and *feminine* rather than sex or gender.) He interprets Don Quixote, Hamlet, and Faust (and also mentions Zorba!) to explain these three levels of consciousness: " *Simple* consciousness, not often seen in our modern technological world; *complex* consciousness, the usual state of educated western man; and an *enlightened* state of consciousness, known only to a very few individuals, which is the culmination of human evolution and can be attained by highly motivated people after much work and training. " He describes how proverbs in different cultures talk about these three levels, " One story, for instance, relates that the simple man comes home in the evening wondering what's for dinner, the complex man comes home pondering the imponderables of fate and the enlightened man comes home wondering what's for dinner. Simple man and complex man have much in common, including a direct, uncomplicated view of life, and so they react in similar ways. The only true difference between them is that the enlightened man is conscious of his condition, while the simple man is not. Complex man, on the other hand, spends much of his time worrying and is often in a state of anxiety. " He then quotes a Zen proverb that also describes these levels of consciousness, and also notes that the bible describes a journey from the Garden of Eden through the trials and tribulations of earthly existence, to the heavenly afterlife; also paralleling the three levels of consciousness. In terms of returning to a simpler way of life and consciousness, he says, " Carl Jung warns of attempting to make a 'regressive' restoration of the persona,' to go back to a simpler consciousness when one has discovered the suffering of complex consciousness. Those who try this solution to the suffering of life merely put on a persona of simplicity, which is a further complication of an already overburdened life...Returning to the Garden of Eden is not possible once you've been expelled from it, for, as Scripture informs us, there is an angel with a fiery sword standing there to refuse our return. Put more simply, you can't go home again. " I've found Johnson's writings immensely valuable in understanding my own " complex consciousness " and the attendant worries, anxieties and endless " pondering the imponderables of fate. " ___________ Great new service! Redjellyfish Long Distance works just like AT & T, MCI, or any other long distance provider and is very competitively priced. In addition we donate a percentage of our profits to The Nature Conservancy, our statements and phone cards are made of recycled materials, and our website is completely solar powered! To learn more visit: http://www.redjellyfish.com/longdistance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 I love this post. It resonates inside. I agree that simple + enlighted are almost the same. It also makes sound that regression will just " complicate more " - because you try manipulating.... What is the way to step forward to the third phase? Anat ----- äåãòä î÷åøéú ----- îàú: " tragerdude " <tragerdude àì: ðùìç: éåí ùìéùé 14 îàé 2002 02:29 ðåùà: it takes genius to make things simple > > A book that has helped me with my own version of the conundrum you describe is: " Transformation: Understanding the Three Levels of Masculine Consciousness " by Robert A. Johnson He’s a Jungian analyst who has written a number of books that interpret mythology and classical literature to help explain the evolution of individual and collective (un)consciousness. (Masculine (vs. Feminine) is referring to the " masculine " aspect of every person's psyche, the internal *masculine* and *feminine* rather than sex or gender.) > > He interprets Don Quixote, Hamlet, and Faust (and also mentions Zorba!) to explain these three levels of consciousness: > > " *Simple* consciousness, not often seen in our modern technological world; *complex* consciousness, the usual state of educated western man; and an *enlightened* state of consciousness, known only to a very few individuals, which is the culmination of human evolution and can be attained by highly motivated people after much work and training. " > > He describes how proverbs in different cultures talk about these three levels, " One story, for instance, relates that the simple man comes home in the evening wondering what's for dinner, the complex man comes home pondering the imponderables of fate and the enlightened man comes home wondering what's for dinner. Simple man and complex man have much in common, including a direct, uncomplicated view of life, and so they react in similar ways. The only true difference between them is that the enlightened man is conscious of his condition, while the simple man is not. Complex man, on the other hand, spends much of his time worrying and is often in a state of anxiety. " He then quotes a Zen proverb that also describes these levels of consciousness, and also notes that the bible describes a journey from the Garden of Eden through the trials and tribulations of earthly existence, to the heavenly afterlife; also paralleling the three levels of consciousness. > > In terms of returning to a simpler way of life and consciousness, he says, " Carl Jung warns of attempting to make a 'regressive' restoration of the persona,' to go back to a simpler consciousness when one has discovered the suffering of complex consciousness. Those who try this solution to the suffering of life merely put on a persona of simplicity, which is a further complication of an already overburdened life...Returning to the Garden of Eden is not possible once you've been expelled from it, for, as Scripture informs us, there is an angel with a fiery sword standing there to refuse our return. Put more simply, you can't go home again. " > > I've found Johnson's writings immensely valuable in understanding my own " complex consciousness " and the attendant worries, anxieties and endless " pondering the imponderables of fate. " > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2002 Report Share Posted May 14, 2002 one more thing The idea of 3 phases might be as in breathing. 1: autonomus breathing: deep and right like babies do, children, spontanouesly with out being concious 2: As adults we experience emotions fear, anxiety, anger then the breath is getting complicated - not flowing.... might have problems 3: enlighted : concious breathing.... knowing to breath deepand right.... being aware to your breathing Still it seems that the first phase is the purest, I think it's the purest of all ! no manipulations! I noticed there are people who maintain the children phase without manipulations or trying to outsmart... they cling to naivity and purity- and their magic is that they do not know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2002 Report Share Posted May 23, 2002 Anat Cohen wrote: > > What i was asking is for a step by step guidance ,a practical way > techniques and tools of moving from square 2 to 3 ? > > " forsaking the ego-self " is too abstract phrase for the mind. How can one > take simple actions to be simple in the enlightened way? Or maybe you just > have to be patient and let it happen - with age, with time with daily > struggles I don't have the simple steps outlined but I do know this, for most of us, living in the ego world letting it happen is probably not going to work. For myself I have begun the journey by attending experiential personal growth workshops. Here is my current favorite. http://www.sandylevey.com/ Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2002 Report Share Posted May 23, 2002 Andy: Well, I think I have to disagree with you, here. That is like saying that because you are living in a cesspool, you have to be made of crap. Yes, you're going to get dirty, but you don't have to internalize it. I believe it is a matter of priorities. " Being in the world but not of the world " is the expression. It all depends on what your personal motivations and goals are. I don't think that materialism and career ambition are our natural states, but are societally induced. Sometimes, when enlightenment comes, it brings about a change in focus so distinct that previous behavior becomes not only uncomfortable but unnatural, dissonant. People change jobs, move, alter relationships, etc. It's not that I think being prosperous is impossible unless you play the game, because prosperity is a state of mind. But often, being rich means compromising basic human values and focusing on the small self rather than the large self (universal consciousness). Individual prosperity is recognition of being part of something larger and as a symbiotic segment being taken care of as everything else is. There is " enough " . We are not raised in this society for there ever to be enough, though... we are raised to be ambitious, greedy and selfish. The developmentalists will tell you that it's because of the strong increase in the past two generations of caesarean sections over vaginal births, because the lack of primal struggle to be born makes people lazy (G) I don't know if I buy that, but I do know that there seems to be a large component of entitlement present in people nowadays, the idea that the world owes them a living, that work is a four letter word, and that whoever dies with the most toys wins. ;-) Blessings, Crow , acsnag@w... wrote: > > I don't have the simple steps outlined but I do know this, for most of > us, living in the ego world letting it happen is probably not going to work. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2002 Report Share Posted May 23, 2002 nrgbalance wrote: > Andy: > > Well, I think I have to disagree with you, here. That is like saying > that because you are living in a cesspool, you have to be made of > crap. Yes, you're going to get dirty, but you don't have to > internalize it. > I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. As long as we are living in this world where the ego is in charge we will not manage to change in the way we want if we just sit back and passively wait for it to happen. We need to be proactive and demonstrate that we want to change in order for it to happen. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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