Digest Number 570

[Guest guest]

Wow, Al, thank you so much for your lengthy reply. I find this way of

looking at TCM very different, and it must be very challenging to form a

newer understanding of TCM using an ancient text. I think I understand your

time of day theory a little bit from your explanation, but since you are

dividing the day up in to six parts, could you tell me how the hours of the

day run using this particular theory? Does it go from 12-4 a.m., 4-8 a.m, 8

a.m.-12noon p.m., 12 p.m-4 p.m, 4 p.m-8 p.m., 8 p.m-12 a.m? I am pretty

certain that this is all arbitrary and man made time imposed on the body, as

indeed are the designations of hours and minutes themselves.

 

I am all for new ideas and interpretations whenever they are backed up by

clinical practice as you are doing. I think this is what attracts me to

Chinese medicine as opposed to Western medicine, for it seem to me that much

of TCM is based on clinical experience and observation rather than science

and abstract theories. Unfortunately, TCM appears to be extremely murky, as

if many of its practitioners deliberately hid their true meanings within

their writings. I have begun to understand some of this thinking after

seeing how this culture seems to enjoy intrigue and drama. I expect there

was a certain amount of MSU, even in ancient China, if only to mislead

rivals. I am not even going to get into the fact that current Western

medicine probably does the same thing with just as much frequency.

 

I wish that I could say I was getting all better with my practitioner, but I

seem to languish about where I am now, with feet that get cold every night

about 8 p.m. This lasts until I go to sleep and start to warm up with

covers. I have been working on this off and on now for about two years.

 

I plan to study your post at greater length, and I do thank you for the time

you took to reply to me. The more I learn the more I learn that I need to

learn more.

 

Sarah

[Guest guest]

bonmotSarah wrote:

>

> since you are

> dividing the day up in to six parts, could you tell me how the hours of the

> day run using this particular theory? Does it go from 12-4 a.m., 4-8 a.m, 8

> a.m.-12noon p.m., 12 p.m-4 p.m, 4 p.m-8 p.m., 8 p.m-12 a.m? I am pretty

> certain that this is all arbitrary and man made time imposed on the body, as

> indeed are the designations of hours and minutes themselves.

 

True, in fact although I'll give you the times in hours and minutes, I

think of these six phases more as general energies that wax and wane

through the day. For instance, there's a certain *feeling* that comes

along with morning. That feeling changes not between one minute and

another, but as a slow sort of evolution throughout the day. The Yang

Ming time is the heat of the afternoon. We all know that time of day

when its the most hot. It isn't always exactly 3 pm, but there's that

sense of what the hottest part of the day feels like. You could

actually project that on to the yearly calander too. The Yang Ming part

of the year would be August/September. The " dog days " as they're called

in American English.

 

So, here's my **sense** of the hours involved...

 

Shao Yang: Dawn till 10 am. The morning

Tai Yang: 10 am till 3 pm. The midday

Yang Ming: 3 pm till dusk. The afternoon

Shao Yin: dusk till 10 pm. The evening

Tai Yin: 10 pm till 3 am. The night

Jue Yin: 3 am till dawn. The early morning

 

Now, that is somewhat different from the actual text in the Shang Han

Lun which messes with things a bit. It looks like this:

 

Shao Yang: 3 am to 9 am

Tai Yang: 9 am to 3 pm

Yang Ming: 3 pm to 9 pm

Shao Yin: 11 pm till 5 am

Tai Yin: 9 pm till 3 am

Jue Yin: 1 am till 7 am

 

These two ways of looking at things overlap pretty well, except for the

Shao Yin and Tai Yin are inverted. I should probably pay attention to

that and see what I have to learn from it, probably need to rethink my

thesis here.

 

> I wish that I could say I was getting all better with my practitioner, but I

> seem to languish about where I am now, with feet that get cold every night

> about 8 p.m. This lasts until I go to sleep and start to warm up with

> covers. I have been working on this off and on now for about two years.

 

Generally, when I see a problem aggravated at the end of the day, I

assume a deficiency of something or other. You sleep and regain your Qi

or Yang or whatever, then you burn it up during your daytime activities.

 

> I plan to study your post at greater length, and I do thank you for the time

> you took to reply to me. The more I learn the more I learn that I need to

> learn more.

 

Yeah, welcome to the club on that one.

 

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

The times of the organs are from the astronomy/astrology part of

TCM. and have to do with the correspondence of the Yin and Yang

predominating during the day/night. It's not arbitrary at all

and was made through observation and experience.

Marcos

 

]-- bonmotSarah escreveu:

(...)certain that this is all arbitrary and man made time imposed

on the body, as indeed are the designations of hours and minutes

themselves. I am all for new ideas and interpretations whenever

they are backed up by clinical practice as you are doing.I think

this is what attracts me to Chinese medicine as opposed to

Western medicine, for it seem to me that much of TCM is based on

clinical experience and observation rather than science <and

abstract theories. Unfortunately, TCM appears to be extremely

murky, as if many of its practitioners deliberately hid their

true meanings within

their writings

 

_____________________

Encontros

O lugar certo para você encontrar aquela pessoa que falta na sua vida.

Cadastre-se hoje mesmo!

http://br.encontros./

[Guest guest]

I would like to find a filter system that removes the pesticides you mention here, but also filters out fluoride. I'm now using RO water, but this scares me - I never knew it was acid water - is that because it removes all the minerals?

Carol

 

I have an energy water system that does that. It is a 3 stage filter system, that also adds magnetic energy to the water, which breaks the molecules into micro-clusters.

 

The first is the activated charcoal filter that every system has. The second is made with artificial kidney dialysis technology, because that is the finest filtration of which we know, necessary for human life. It filters everything. That is the chamber that filters out the chemicals impurities. It filters to one tenth of a micron. Common bacteria are one micron in size, so it filters ten times smaller than that.

 

The third chamber has a far-infrared filter, and a Pi filter. It energizes the water with far-infrared energy, and when the water goes through the mineral pebbles and coral pebbles, it picks up coral calcium, magesium, and other minerals the natural way. The water also becomes oxygenated and more alkaline.

 

What you wind up with, is, finely filtered energized Pi water. It is great for detoxing and flushing, because it is energized. It is about as pure as you can get, because of the filtering. It is oxygenated, and more alkaline (water that is totally alkaline is not good for the body). It gives you minerals (especially the coral calcium and magesium), the natural way, which is in the water, and thereby way more absorbable. Because the molecules are in micro-clusters, the water is more absorbable, and so are the minerals. Over a year, it is way cheaper than bottled water, too.

 

Barb

Barbara Johnson RN,

Health & Wellness Consultant

How healthy do you want to be?

Advanced wellness technologies  for the 21st century.

Natural Alternatives

[Guest guest]

--- that's a excellent system ,I use a different system for the

clustering that is capable of making multiple types of clustered

water, clustered water has as many variations to the cluster as

there are snowflakes ,with different clusters resonanting better

with certain individuals, one really needs to go thru the different

types available to find the cluster that performs the cellular

actions most effectively in their body , all our bodies resonant

slightly different

karl

 

In , Bjohnsonrn@a... wrote:

> I would like to find a filter system that removes the pesticides

you mention

> here, but also filters out fluoride. I'm now using RO water, but

this scares

> me - I never knew it was acid water - is that because it removes

all the

> minerals?

> Carol

>

> I have an energy water system that does that. It is a 3 stage

filter

> system, that also adds magnetic energy to the water, which breaks

the molecules into

> micro-clusters.

>

> The first is the activated charcoal filter that every system has.

The second

> is made with artificial kidney dialysis technology, because that

is the

> finest filtration of which we know, necessary for human life. It

filters

> everything. That is the chamber that filters out the chemicals

impurities. It filters

> to one tenth of a micron. Common bacteria are one micron in size,

so it

> filters ten times smaller than that.

>

> The third chamber has a far-infrared filter, and a Pi filter. It

energizes

> the water with far-infrared energy, and when the water goes

through the mineral

> pebbles and coral pebbles, it picks up coral calcium, magesium,

and other

> minerals the natural way. The water also becomes oxygenated and

more alkaline.

>

> What you wind up with, is, finely filtered energized Pi water. It

is great

> for detoxing and flushing, because it is energized. It is about

as pure as you

> can get, because of the filtering. It is oxygenated, and more

alkaline

> (water that is totally alkaline is not good for the body). It

gives you minerals

> (especially the coral calcium and magesium), the natural way,

which is in the

> water, and thereby way more absorbable. Because the molecules are

in

> micro-clusters, the water is more absorbable, and so are the

minerals. Over a year, it

> is way cheaper than bottled water, too.

>

> Barb

> Barbara Johnson RN,

> Health & Wellness Consultant

> How healthy do you want to be?

> Advanced wellness technologies  for the 21st century.

> <A HREF= " http://www.5pillars.com/JohnsonRN/ " >Natural Alternatives

</A>

[Guest guest]

Sounds excellent Barbara. How much?

 

Donna

 

- I have an energy water system that does that. It is a 3 stage filter system, that also adds magnetic energy to the water, which breaks the molecules into micro-clusters.

[Guest guest]

Please share more. Name of product, price, etc.

 

Thanks

Donna

 

-

karl

Saturday, July 12, 2003 8:05 AM

Re: Digest Number 570

--- that's a excellent system ,I use a different system for the clustering that is capable of making multiple types of clustered water, clustered water has as many variations to the cluster as there are snowflakes ,with different clusters resonanting better with certain individuals, one really needs to go thru the different types available to find the cluster that performs the cellular actions most effectively in their body , all our bodies resonant slightly differentkarl In , Bjohnsonrn@a... wrote:> I would like to find a filter system that removes the pesticides you mention > here, but also filters out fluoride. I'm now using RO water, but this scares > me - I never knew it was acid water - is that because it removes all the > minerals? > Carol> > I have an energy water system that does that. It is a 3 stage filter > system, that also adds magnetic energy to the water, which breaks the molecules into > micro-clusters.> > The first is the activated charcoal filter that every system has. The second > is made with artificial kidney dialysis technology, because that is the > finest filtration of which we know, necessary for human life. It filters > everything. That is the chamber that filters out the chemicals impurities. It filters > to one tenth of a micron. Common bacteria are one micron in size, so it > filters ten times smaller than that. > > The third chamber has a far-infrared filter, and a Pi filter. It energizes > the water with far-infrared energy, and when the water goes through the mineral > pebbles and coral pebbles, it picks up coral calcium, magesium, and other > minerals the natural way. The water also becomes oxygenated and more alkaline.> > What you wind up with, is, finely filtered energized Pi water. It is great > for detoxing and flushing, because it is energized. It is about as pure as you > can get, because of the filtering. It is oxygenated, and more alkaline > (water that is totally alkaline is not good for the body). It gives you minerals > (especially the coral calcium and magesium), the natural way, which is in the > water, and thereby way more absorbable. Because the molecules are in > micro-clusters, the water is more absorbable, and so are the minerals. Over a year, it > is way cheaper than bottled water, too.> > Barb> Barbara Johnson RN, > Health & Wellness Consultant> How healthy do you want to be?> Advanced wellness technologies for the 21st century.> <A HREF="http://www.5pillars.com/JohnsonRN/">Natural Alternatives </A>

[Guest guest]

Greetings Laura,

 

Some thoughts on insurance.

 

I think most people would agree that there is nothing like a cash practice.

That way you do not have to compromise your integrity making up stories to

satisfy insurance companies.

 

If you give your clients a super bill, then 'they' can spend the time to

call their insurance company to see if they can collect for acupuncture

treatment. Unfortunately, the reality is that very few people will have

insurance coverage for acupuncture.

 

Then you are left with the decision that you will have to tell people that

insurance will probably not cover the treatment, but they can check with their

company to see. Often I find that people do expect to be covered anyway.

 

So you are left with the decision as to whether you can make it financially

or not without the aid of insurance collection. This has been my practice for

the last several years. Good luck.

Patrick

 

 

 

 

 

Patrick D. Holiman

http://www.acu-polarity.com

 

 

[Guest guest]

Patrick,

I have the same experience as you. I also have a cash practice, and

the time and energy I'd spend chasing insurance companies goes to

giving better quality care to patients. Patients can file their own

insurance, and everyone seems to understand my position. I've rarely

had anyone turn away from my practice over insurance coverage.

 

 

On Jul 24, 2004, at 7:51 AM, Patrick D. Holiman wrote:

 

> Greetings Laura,

>

> Some thoughts on insurance.

>

> I think most people would agree that there is nothing like a cash

> practice. That way you do not have to compromise your integrity

> making up stories to satisfy insurance companies.

>

> If you give your clients a super bill, then 'they' can spend the

> time to call their insurance company to see if they can collect for

> acupuncture treatment. Unfortunately, the reality is that very few

> people will have insurance coverage for acupuncture.

>

> Then you are left with the decision that you will have to tell

> people that insurance will probably not cover the treatment, but they

> can check with their company to see. Often I find that people do

> expect to be covered anyway.

>

> So you are left with the decision as to whether you can make it

> financially or not without the aid of insurance collection. This has

> been my practice for the last several years. Good luck.

> Patrick

>

>

>

>

>

> Patrick D. Holiman

> http://www.acu-polarity.com

>

> [

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

 

We are a Traditional Company. We have clinics in

Birmingham, Kidderminster,Newcaslte, Guildford, Norwich, Southampton,

Sheffield in UK. We are urgently looking for TCM Practioners to work in

these branches. The salary will start with ¡ê12,000 plus bonus. The start

date is as soon as possible.

 

Thank you for your attention.

 

John Jiang

Clinics Manager

ShiZhen HuiRen Ltd

www.shizhen.co.uk

 

 

 

 

-

<Chinese Medicine >

<Chinese Medicine >

Saturday, July 24, 2004 10:10 AM

Digest Number 570

 

 

>

> There are 9 messages in this issue.

>

> Topics in this digest:

>

> 1. Re: Re: leading cause of death

> " stephen macallan " <stephenmacallan

> 2. Re: Bottom line?

> " salvador_march " <salvador_march

> 3. How to get money as an acupuncturist

> " heylaurag " <heylaurag

> 4. Re: Systems , reality, true, and MSU

> mystir <ykcul_ritsym

> 5. Re: Help w Lyme disease proptocol ?

> mystir <ykcul_ritsym

> 6. Shanna

> Spiritpathpress

> 7. Shanna #2

> Spiritpathpress

> 8. Re: leading cause of death

> " " <

> 9. Re: Re: something sinister or something wellcome????

> mystir <ykcul_ritsym

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 1

> 23 Jul 104 23:18:32 +0000

> " stephen macallan " <stephenmacallan

> Re: Re: leading cause of death

>

> hi Susie,

> my apologies, youre quit right

>

> regardez

>

> stephen

>

> Stephen

> > After all the talk on this forum about MSUing and not quoting things

> > accurately, I am a bit taken aback that you have misquoted WDDTY

regarding

> > statins. WDDTY did not say that " statins appear to ensure you don't die

> > from heart disease " , but they did theorise that statins were a cause of

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 2

> Fri, 23 Jul 2004 23:16:51 -0000

> " salvador_march " <salvador_march

> Re: Bottom line?

>

> Steven wrote:

> > Hi Salvador,

> >

> > I too agree that western science contributes to our understanding of

> > disease. But I unclear on what you mean by this example. Could you

> > please explain how this example is used by specifically in clinic? What

> > are the new perspectives you gained about the Spleen from this? How is

> > it applied clinically? Do you still consider it phlegm? And how do you

> > translate this western knowledge into TCM treatment priniciples?

> >

> > Best WIshes,

> >

> > Dr. Steven J Slater

> Hi steven,

>

> When I treat people I note patterns, and phlegm in the stools, I hope

> I am right in labelling it as Phlegm, but my real interest is root

> disturbances, I use symptoms to help me narrow down the options so

> phlegm in the stools is a sign of the pancreas not releasing enough

> alkaline bicarbonate. So For me it would signify a high probability of

> a def SP esp if other diagnostic appraches also coincided. ie. slow

> peristaltic motion, red spots, internal bleeding at the slighless

> knock, etc.,

>

> I know its not 'rocket science' but as the saying goes 'every bit

> helps' and for me understanding the process is more important than

> just a label that says Damp Phlegm.

>

>

> Because I I have developed a system with core concepts (Who hasn't?)

> reading this forum we seeem to be two a penny. " Arrrhhgg there be

> gold in them there hills me hearties " !

>

> It is possible that a patient may present with phlegm in the stools

> but all my indicators might well show that it is simply a branch

> rather than a root, the symptoms are just a means of narrowing down

> possibities and I am very interested in structure and organs for

> diagnostic purposes.

>

> Sorry Steven, I don't think my answer is much use to you because I

> imagine we are using a different approach, not only to diagnose but

> also in the way that we use acupuncture points to help a patient.

>

> salvador

>

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 3

> Sat, 24 Jul 2004 00:29:38 -0000

> " heylaurag " <heylaurag

> How to get money as an acupuncturist

>

> Hi all,

>

> I was wondering how you all deal with the issue of insurance

> companies. At times I spent 2 to 3 hours (which is a typical intake

> time for me) only to discover their insurance won't cover acupuncture

> afterall, and then they never pay me. Makes me wish that I could ask

> for the money upfront and have them be reimbursed when the insurance

> money comes in, but I'm not sure what they would think of that. I'm

> curious to hear details about how you all run your businesses.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Laura

>

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 4

> Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:54:32 -0700 (PDT)

> mystir <ykcul_ritsym

> Re: Systems , reality, true, and MSU

>

> Well Jason, you did put a lot into this. I would agree that people have

different valid trainings, and even students from same stream, learning

elbow to elbow, may come away with something different, but hopefully not

wrong. And there is right and wrong.

> But I for one have to put away my ego or fear in order to ask questions

that show weak spots in my understanding, or even places of incorrect

assumption, in order to learn.(eg, the emotional imbalance component in yin

fire. I am so glad to learn more about it, so much falls into place becuase

of a little knowledge. I've been working in this for a long time, and the

thrill of discovery is still such a blessing. There is always more to learn,

always.)

> More than one person has said how they are afraid to post to group

because they feel they may be ridiculed or 'ripped a new one'. I think if

we all are just gentler with each other, this will continue to be a

fantastic place. I didn't really see anyone attacking anybody else too

strongly(maybe I missed it), but it is easy to get a wrong impression, esp

when one feels vulnerable. As far as paranoid statistics go, I'll just let

it go, things are bad but I don't want to fight about it. When I want to

fight, I'll join the army.

>

> < wrote:

> Dear Group,

>

> When I logged onto this group...

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 5

> Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:57:16 -0700 (PDT)

> mystir <ykcul_ritsym

> Re: Help w Lyme disease proptocol ?

>

> Thanks Stephen, if you have time. I'll look too.

>

> stephen macallan <stephenmacallan wrote:Hi

> one of the species of cats claw has been identified by a good trial

> as killing the blighter, if you're interested I'll dig up the

> particular species, colloidal silver is supposed to be effective

> also but no study done

>

> regardez

>

> stephen

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 6

> Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:03:05 EDT

> Spiritpathpress

> Shanna

>

>

> In a message dated 7/23/04 8:20:51 PM,

> Chinese Medicine writes:

>

> << IMHO, I agree that our literary tradition, by definition, is not at

>

> the cutting edge, but I do think it represents the " best part " >>

>

> Lon: Wouldn't " cutting edge " and " best part " be equivelent?

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 7

> Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:06:09 EDT

> Spiritpathpress

> Shanna #2

>

>

> In a message dated 7/23/04 8:20:51 PM,

> Chinese Medicine writes:

>

> << Could " feeling better " not be one step further toward enlightenment?

>

> Or are you proposing it's an all-or-nothing leap? >>

>

> Lon: No. Feeling is never more than feeling. Feelings cycle in a

conditioned

> way like the weather. How do you suppose Christ, Ghandi, King, etal. felt?

In

> enlightenment there is an unshakeable moral obligation and conviction.

" I've

> seen something and I'm not moving from it. " Usually when a person takes

such a

> stand the bullets start to fly. It doesn't necessarily feel good, right?

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 8

> Sat, 24 Jul 2004 01:09:19 -0000

> " " <

> Re: leading cause of death

>

> Chinese Medicine , " stephen

> macallan " <stephenmacallan@u...> wrote:

> > hi all,

> > I thought this topic nwas banned, however The Ecologist

> > referenced the nutrition institute of america, and they have a www -

> > I've had a quick scan and it is worth a read:

> >

> > www.thenutritioninstituteofamerica.net

> >

> > it is interesting even if not right

>

> I am sorry, I have to once again say something... We have come full

> circle around to the 1st reference cited (which was bogus).. This

> nutritioninstitureofUSA points to the death by medicine article. This

> just goes to show how easy it is (and prevalant) passing around

> (bogus) stats are... but thanx for the Ecologist source, it proves an

> important point!

>

> -

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 9

> Fri, 23 Jul 2004 19:02:43 -0700 (PDT)

> mystir <ykcul_ritsym

> Re: Re: something sinister or something wellcome????

>

> That sounds about right. Nothing short of a world wide strike will derail

the Market Forces coordinated plans to further milk the lower classes for

everything they've got, and then keep milking. Not paranoid, informed.

>

> stephen macallan <stephenmacallan wrote:hello all,

> the wellcome foundation (pharma company) are hosting the

> IASTAM asian medicine tradion and modernity conference on 2/12/04 in

> london. Topics are CM and Ayurvedic med. Big names in CM are there -

> Hugh Macpherson, Vivienne Lo, Volker Scheid, etc.

>

> Is this getting into bed with the enemy?

>

> Are we being seduced in order to get screwed?

>

>

> Lets see, here in Uk, we may lose our right to buy high dose mins

> and vits and low dose all sorts of currently freely available

> supplements. We've lost kava kava (cos of 15 dubious adverse reactions

> throught the whole of Europe), we nearly lost St. Johns wort on

> account of a similar number of dubious adverse consequences

> worldwide!! We've lost chinese herbs too but I'm a western-style

> herbalist so I'm not familiar with what we've lost but I do get the

> written formal notifications.

>

> We may lose many, many, many herbs (Chinese ones too) because of

> soon-to-be-implemented restrictions involving licensing and production

> facilities. The suppliers here are ceasing to supply minority herbs in

> preparation for the requirements.

>

> Gossip is the plan is for herbalists to write presciptions for

> patients to go off to Boots the chemist to get them filled and Boots

> will buy off cheapest suppliers - which will be Big Pharma bulk buying

> cheap and nasty herb ingredients bulk processing into cheap and nasty

> herbal products which won't work very well. Patients won't get better

> and will go back to doctors for expensive but profitable drugs. Net

> result? Alternative medicine fails and Big Pharma wins.

>

> 'Course I may be a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

>

> Just becos I'm paranoid doesn't mean nobody is watching me.

>

> All I know is I'm not going.

>

> Boycott anyone?

>

> regardez

>

> Stephen

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

>

> Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious,

spam messages,flame another member or swear.

>

>

http://babel.altavista.com/

>

>

and adjust

accordingly.

>

> If you , it takes a few days for the messages to stop being

delivered.

>

> ------

>