Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Hello, My brother-in-law and two of his/our friends have embarked (at about 50 yrs old) on a very limited, nearly 100% raw food vegan diet, whereby they ingest NO fats, very little oil, NO animal products, NO cooked vegetables or grains, NO dairy, and NO PROTEIN, except in the form of nuts and seeds. The results have been horrifying. He looks like a skeleton, or an Aids patient. The photos of Jews released from the concentration camps look better than he does. My female friend has yellow feet and hands. She is a ghastly color, whitish-yellow, and she says it is not from hepatic overload (my theory) but instead is concentrated carotenes, not to worry. She is not as skinny, but is getting there. My other friend has aged so much in the 1-1/2 yrs of this diet, I almost did not recognize him! In the case of my brother-in-law, his mother is devastated and fears he is dying. He is achieving the goal of simultaneously freaking out everyone, while blissfully elevating himself with this self-righteous, self-destructive regimen he claims is the ultimate healthy diet, while he is literally wasting away. How can this be good? BTW, these people are defensive about the diet to the extent that it is a cult with them - all they want to talk about, and all day long they are snacking like rabbits on carrots and fruit, never satisfied. They treat food as if it is a medication, and their personal deprivation is almost addictive.And, this method is quite expensive, it is not due to economy that they choose it. I sent him these links to a few websites which show the "other side" of dietary extremism. I doubt he will read them, because this path is a form of zealotry that will not accomodate detractors. I don't care, I am very afraid for him. I am passing this on and I hope it helps someone. Any stories you might have of "raw-food survivors" or information that might open some eyes would be appreciated. http://www.healers-network.com/Articles/whisnant.html http://www.beyondveg.com/index.shtml check out some of the links - this is the homepage http://www.chetday.com/hallelujah-diet-dangers.htm this one has many articles besides the one on this page **Try plugging some keywords about raw food diet and vitamin B12 or EFA or protein deficiency into Google and see what you come up with yourself. Lil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 I know people like that. People that take enemas everyday to clean their colon. The people I know do not maintain an explicitly raw food diet, but some will stay away from sugary vegetables and fruit (because of the thought that they have candida), and will eat mostly raw foods and seldom cook. They are very low on energy, consider themselves to be sick, and must treat themselves this way. Two thing you are: You are what you eat You are what you think. My own thought as to the enemas, how could you have a dirty colon, food compaction, if you are eating correctly? Daily enemas destroy the health of the colon. Your smooth muscle tissue is meant to move things out, not enemas. Enemas are emergency. And daily they destroy the colon’s ability to cleanse yourself. These people juice everything, getting rid of most of the fiber of plants and vegetables, although one of the things they do eat is “healthy” salads. They worry about what they eat. “WORRY!” They also have no energy to work. So, some of them live on governmental subsidy---us taxpayers. They can do that because they get SICK, and can’t work because they are so damned “healthy.” And there is no speaking about it to them. They’ve swallowed another bait—hook, line and sinker. But it is my own thought, that there is something dreadfully wrong in the person’s spirit and mind that drives a person to act in this way. They don’t see your logic because they are actually operating from a different faith perspective, which will control how any of us see the “facts.” On the other hand, sometimes when there is enough contact with reality, eventually some light gets through and they can make positive changes. One just hopes that that happens within a context that permits them to actually become healthy and heal damage. Another point to consider is that people come to all this from all individualized circumstances. Circumstances that may have already caused a certain degree of physical changes, mental as well, that would actually prevent the benefits of a raw food diet. As for myself, I think that a raw food diet would be something to do for a short term. Like fasting. But one has to consider that we need to have proteins. Carbohydrates and fats as well. In a body that is constantly moving towards death, one need to have whole protein. It takes protein to repair and replace tissue and cells that have died. Much more difficult to get in raw food, vegetarian diet, from what I understand about things. The key to everything is balance. Moderateness. But that doesn’t mean that one could moderately drink poisons. There are so many various factors that could be causing what appears to be going wrong. Organic vegetables? Clean water? What was the state of affairs in their body before they started? Do they make themselves sick with mental attitudes? Ed Lupo [llupowitz] Monday, August 18, 2003 9:29 AM To: Raw Food Diet Dangers? Hello, My brother-in-law and two of his/our friends have embarked (at about 50 yrs old) on a very limited, nearly 100% raw food vegan diet, whereby they ingest NO fats, very little oil, NO animal products, NO cooked vegetables or grains, NO dairy, and NO PROTEIN, except in the form of nuts and seeds. The results have been horrifying. He looks like a skeleton, or an Aids patient. The photos of Jews released from the concentration camps look better than he does. My female friend has yellow feet and hands. She is a ghastly color, whitish-yellow, and she says it is not from hepatic overload (my theory) but instead is concentrated carotenes, not to worry. She is not as skinny, but is getting there. My other friend has aged so much in the 1-1/2 yrs of this diet, I almost did not recognize him! In the case of my brother-in-law, his mother is devastated and fears he is dying. He is achieving the goal of simultaneously freaking out everyone, while blissfully elevating himself with this self-righteous, self-destructive regimen he claims is the ultimate healthy diet, while he is literally wasting away. How can this be good? BTW, these people are defensive about the diet to the extent that it is a cult with them - all they want to talk about, and all day long they are snacking like rabbits on carrots and fruit, never satisfied. They treat food as if it is a medication, and their personal deprivation is almost addictive.And, this method is quite expensive, it is not due to economy that they choose it. I sent him these links to a few websites which show the " other side " of dietary extremism. I doubt he will read them, because this path is a form of zealotry that will not accomodate detractors. I don't care, I am very afraid for him. I am passing this on and I hope it helps someone. Any stories you might have of " raw-food survivors " or information that might open some eyes would be appreciated. http://www.healers-network.com/Articles/whisnant.html http://www.beyondveg.com/index.shtml check out some of the links - this is the homepage http://www.chetday.com/hallelujah-diet-dangers.htm this one has many articles besides the one on this page **Try plugging some keywords about raw food diet and vitamin B12 or EFA or protein deficiency into Google and see what you come up with yourself. Lil «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤» NATIONWIDE DENTAL BENEFITS PACKAGE PLUS SAVE UP TO 80% on DENTAL, PRESCRIPTIONS DRUGS, GLASSES, CONTACTS, VISION CARE, & CHIROPRACTIC. $11.95 For Single or $19.95 For an entire household per month! Immediate Coverage * No Waiting Period Pre-existing Covered * No Limit on Benefits http://www.mybenefitsplus.com/MMerrill/ Email: MEM121 «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤» § - PULSE ON WORLD HEALTH CONSPIRACIES! § Subscribe:......... - To :.... - Any information here in is for educational purpose only, it may be news related, purely speculation or someone's opinion. Always consult with a qualified health practitioner before deciding on any course of treatment, especially for serious or life-threatening illnesses. **COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. 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Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Yep, moderation in everything, even moderation. Isn't this like the hallelujah diet? I get this newsletter from Chet Day, and very often find articles about the problems with the raw diet. http://www.chetday.com/hallelujah-diet-dangers.htm http://www.chetday.com/hallelujah-diet-baby.htm Lynn in CA. " Lupo " <llupowitz wrote: >Hello, > >My brother-in-law and two of his/our friends >have embarked (at about 50 yrs old) on a very >limited, nearly 100% raw food vegan diet, whereby they >ingest NO fats, very little oil, NO animal products, >NO cooked vegetables or grains, NO dairy, and >NO PROTEIN, except in the form of nuts and seeds. > >The results have been horrifying. He looks like a >skeleton, or an Aids patient. The photos of Jews released >from the concentration camps look better than he does. >My female friend has yellow feet and hands. She is a >ghastly color, whitish-yellow, and she says it is not >from hepatic overload (my theory) but instead is >concentrated carotenes, not to worry. She is >not as skinny, but is getting there. My other friend has >aged so much in the 1-1/2 yrs of this diet, I almost >did not recognize him! > >In the case of my brother-in-law, his mother is >devastated and fears he is dying. He is achieving the >goal of simultaneously freaking out everyone, while >blissfully elevating himself with this self-righteous, >self-destructive regimen he claims is the ultimate >healthy diet, while he is literally wasting away. > >How can this be good? BTW, these people are defensive >about the diet to the extent that it is a cult with them - >all they want to talk about, and all day long they are >snacking like rabbits on carrots and fruit, never satisfied. >They treat food as if it is a medication, and their personal >deprivation is almost addictive.And, this method is quite >expensive, it is not due to economy that they choose it. > >I sent him these links to a few websites which show the > " other side " of dietary extremism. I doubt he will read them, >because this path is a form of zealotry that will not >accomodate detractors. I don't care, I am very afraid >for him. I am passing this on and I hope it helps someone. >Any stories you might have of " raw-food survivors " or information >that might open some eyes would be appreciated. > >http://www.healers-network.com/Articles/whisnant.html > >http://www.beyondveg.com/index.shtml >check out some of the links - this is the homepage > > >http://www.chetday.com/hallelujah-diet-dangers.htm > >this one has many articles besides the one on this page > >**Try plugging some keywords about raw food diet and >vitamin B12 or EFA or protein deficiency into Google >and see what you come up with yourself. > >Lil > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Actually, it's not moderation that is important. It is balance that is. A raw food diet is actually healthy if it is balanced in all of the nutrients that a person needs. And as the persons needs change, so must the foods in the diet change. Many people on a raw food diet do them for the sake of everything raw must be good for you (If some is good, more is better and all is best). Some even eat raw meat. They are focusing on food being raw, rather than what their body needs at the time. Chet Day claims in his long article, that most people on the hallelujah diet actually cheat and eat meat. If that is true, than how does that cause protein deficiencies? I would think that the hallelujah diet is not balanced and the amounts and types of foods and does not change with the changing needs of the body. Vegans often focus on not eating animal products strictly for the sake of not eating animal products. French fries and a diet cola is vegan, but not very healthy. Vegans who eat balanced diets are usually healthy. Vegans who don't are not. Rather than stereotype all of a group as being bad (all vegan is bad, all raw is bad, all fat is bad, all carbohydrate is bad, etc.), it is better to recognize that there is some good and some bad in everything. And everything is constantly changing. The best plan is to eat to optimize your health. Monitor your health with the help of medical doctors, nutritionists, TCM, etc. Take vitamins, minerals, and food supplements, as needed (not forever), to mitigate the effects deficiencies, not to make up for lack of lifestyle. I'm sure this post will generate a lot of hate mail. -- Donald E. Jacobs Registered Massage Therapist Macrobiotic Counselor Reiki Practitioner Professional Speaker > Yep, moderation in everything, even moderation. Isn't this like the > hallelujah diet? I get this newsletter from Chet Day, and very often > find articles about the problems with the raw diet. > > > http://www.chetday.com/hallelujah-diet-dangers.htm > > http://www.chetday.com/hallelujah-diet-baby.htm > > Lynn > in CA. > > > > " Lupo " <llupowitz wrote: > > >Hello, > > > >My brother-in-law and two of his/our friends > >have embarked (at about 50 yrs old) on a very > >limited, nearly 100% raw food vegan diet, whereby they > >ingest NO fats, very little oil, NO animal products, > >NO cooked vegetables or grains, NO dairy, and > >NO PROTEIN, except in the form of nuts and seeds. > > > >The results have been horrifying. He looks like a > >skeleton, or an Aids patient. The photos of Jews released > >from the concentration camps look better than he does. > >My female friend has yellow feet and hands. She is a > >ghastly color, whitish-yellow, and she says it is not > >from hepatic overload (my theory) but instead is > >concentrated carotenes, not to worry. She is > >not as skinny, but is getting there. My other friend has > >aged so much in the 1-1/2 yrs of this diet, I almost > >did not recognize him! > > > >In the case of my brother-in-law, his mother is > >devastated and fears he is dying. He is achieving the > >goal of simultaneously freaking out everyone, while > >blissfully elevating himself with this self-righteous, > >self-destructive regimen he claims is the ultimate > >healthy diet, while he is literally wasting away. > > > >How can this be good? BTW, these people are defensive > >about the diet to the extent that it is a cult with them - > >all they want to talk about, and all day long they are > >snacking like rabbits on carrots and fruit, never satisfied. > >They treat food as if it is a medication, and their personal > >deprivation is almost addictive.And, this method is quite > >expensive, it is not due to economy that they choose it. > > > >I sent him these links to a few websites which show the > > " other side " of dietary extremism. I doubt he will read them, > >because this path is a form of zealotry that will not > >accomodate detractors. I don't care, I am very afraid > >for him. I am passing this on and I hope it helps someone. > >Any stories you might have of " raw-food survivors " or information > >that might open some eyes would be appreciated. > > > >http://www.healers-network.com/Articles/whisnant.html > > > >http://www.beyondveg.com/index.shtml > >check out some of the links - this is the homepage > > > > > >http://www.chetday.com/hallelujah-diet-dangers.htm > > > >this one has many articles besides the one on this page > > > >**Try plugging some keywords about raw food diet and > >vitamin B12 or EFA or protein deficiency into Google > >and see what you come up with yourself. > > > >Lil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Thank you Donald. That is a point that I was trying to get across. You did it better. Balance is indeed the key. I do not consider a raw food diet to be bad, if it is a part of an attempt at a balanced lifestyle, as well as an attempt at better meeting the body’s needs. But, as you say, most people who go for what they are participating in as an end in itself rather than a means to an end---that end being a better lifestyle that has inherent to it certain values. So, as a means to an end, the raw food diet would have to take into account the present health of the person considering it. That is where working with professionals (again, not for the sake of working with professionals but as a means of gaining the necessary knowledge of how one’s body is presently working or not working), or, gaining the requisite amount of the correct knowledge oneself, is a necessity. If one has the value that the raw food diet is the ultimate value that he desires to serve, and that it is the ultimate means to maintain one’s health because of the logic of it, then perhaps he should work towards it rather than implement it in a body that can’t make use of the enzymes present in a raw food diet. In other words, to take stock of the fact that is everybody is in a different, individualized place as to what they can and can’t do with their bodies. Ed Donald E. Jacobs [donald.jacobs6] Tuesday, August 19, 2003 8:14 AM Re: Raw Food Diet Dangers? Actually, it's not moderation that is important. It is balance that is. A raw food diet is actually healthy if it is balanced in all of the nutrients that a person needs. And as the persons needs change, so must the foods in the diet change. Many people on a raw food diet do them for the sake of everything raw must be good for you (If some is good, more is better and all is best). Some even eat raw meat. They are focusing on food being raw, rather than what their body needs at the time. Chet Day claims in his long article, that most people on the hallelujah diet actually cheat and eat meat. If that is true, than how does that cause protein deficiencies? I would think that the hallelujah diet is not balanced and the amounts and types of foods and does not change with the changing needs of the body. Vegans often focus on not eating animal products strictly for the sake of not eating animal products. French fries and a diet cola is vegan, but not very healthy. Vegans who eat balanced diets are usually healthy. Vegans who don't are not. Rather than stereotype all of a group as being bad (all vegan is bad, all raw is bad, all fat is bad, all carbohydrate is bad, etc.), it is better to recognize that there is some good and some bad in everything. And everything is constantly changing. The best plan is to eat to optimize your health. Monitor your health with the help of medical doctors, nutritionists, TCM, etc. Take vitamins, minerals, and food supplements, as needed (not forever), to mitigate the effects deficiencies, not to make up for lack of lifestyle. I'm sure this post will generate a lot of hate mail. -- Donald E. Jacobs Registered Massage Therapist Macrobiotic Counselor Reiki Practitioner Professional Speaker > Yep, moderation in everything, even moderation. Isn't this like the > hallelujah diet? I get this newsletter from Chet Day, and very often > find articles about the problems with the raw diet. > > > http://www.chetday.com/hallelujah-diet-dangers.htm > > http://www.chetday.com/hallelujah-diet-baby.htm > > Lynn > in CA. > > > > " Lupo " <llupowitz wrote: > > >Hello, > > > >My brother-in-law and two of his/our friends > >have embarked (at about 50 yrs old) on a very > >limited, nearly 100% raw food vegan diet, whereby they > >ingest NO fats, very little oil, NO animal products, > >NO cooked vegetables or grains, NO dairy, and > >NO PROTEIN, except in the form of nuts and seeds. > > > >The results have been horrifying. He looks like a > >skeleton, or an Aids patient. The photos of Jews released > >from the concentration camps look better than he does. > >My female friend has yellow feet and hands. She is a > >ghastly color, whitish-yellow, and she says it is not > >from hepatic overload (my theory) but instead is > >concentrated carotenes, not to worry. She is > >not as skinny, but is getting there. My other friend has > >aged so much in the 1-1/2 yrs of this diet, I almost > >did not recognize him! > > > >In the case of my brother-in-law, his mother is > >devastated and fears he is dying. He is achieving the > >goal of simultaneously freaking out everyone, while > >blissfully elevating himself with this self-righteous, > >self-destructive regimen he claims is the ultimate > >healthy diet, while he is literally wasting away. > > > >How can this be good? BTW, these people are defensive > >about the diet to the extent that it is a cult with them - > >all they want to talk about, and all day long they are > >snacking like rabbits on carrots and fruit, never satisfied. > >They treat food as if it is a medication, and their personal > >deprivation is almost addictive.And, this method is quite > >expensive, it is not due to economy that they choose it. > > > >I sent him these links to a few websites which show the > > " other side " of dietary extremism. I doubt he will read them, > >because this path is a form of zealotry that will not > >accomodate detractors. I don't care, I am very afraid > >for him. I am passing this on and I hope it helps someone. > >Any stories you might have of " raw-food survivors " or information > >that might open some eyes would be appreciated. > > > >http://www.healers-network.com/Articles/whisnant.html > > > >http://www.beyondveg.com/index.shtml > >check out some of the links - this is the homepage > > > > > >http://www.chetday.com/hallelujah-diet-dangers.htm > > > >this one has many articles besides the one on this page > > > >**Try plugging some keywords about raw food diet and > >vitamin B12 or EFA or protein deficiency into Google > >and see what you come up with yourself. > > > >Lil «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤» NATIONWIDE DENTAL BENEFITS PACKAGE PLUS SAVE UP TO 80% on DENTAL, PRESCRIPTIONS DRUGS, GLASSES, CONTACTS, VISION CARE, & CHIROPRACTIC. $11.95 For Single or $19.95 For an entire household per month! Immediate Coverage * No Waiting Period Pre-existing Covered * No Limit on Benefits http://www.mybenefitsplus.com/MMerrill/ Email: MEM121 «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤» § - PULSE ON WORLD HEALTH CONSPIRACIES! § Subscribe:......... - To :.... - Any information here in is for educational purpose only, it may be news related, purely speculation or someone's opinion. Always consult with a qualified health practitioner before deciding on any course of treatment, especially for serious or life-threatening illnesses. **COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. 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Guest guest Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 Donald, I don't know why you would get any hate mail in response to this reasonable approach. I agree that balance is the best approach, and that suggests omnivorous eating, without too many empty calories or processed *frankenfood* -- Therein as well is delight and enjoyment, which is the emotional component of dining, which these *orthorexia nervosa* neurotics are replacing with a narrow idea of "purity" - I agree that a "clean" diet is preferable, of course - but not THAT clean - lol - I actually enjoy my diet, because I don't place impossible limits on it, and because I consider *cooking* as an art form, which would be sorely missed. Certainly in this hot summer weather, I cook a great deal less and eat more salads, etc. but there are seasons to foods and the time for heavy meals is a natural change that comes with the colder times, when we are warming our bodies and our souls with food. I think if my impression of the raw-foodists were - gee, they look radiant and wonderful! - I would have not been so distressed. I think the whole thing is not so much about diet, per se, as it is about CONTROL. You can't control much, but you can (or some can) control what you put in your mouth. Like someone said - You are what you eat... and these guys are VEGETABLES lololololol Lil PS I will follow this with Donald's letter, and also send another post from the www.beyondveg.com site Re: Raw Food Diet Dangers?Actually, it's not moderation that is important. It is balance that is. A raw food diet is actually healthy if it is balanced in all of the nutrients that a person needs. And as the persons needs change, so must the foods in the diet change.Many people on a raw food diet do them for the sake of everything raw must be good for you (If some is good, more is better and all is best). Some even eat raw meat. They are focusing on food being raw, rather than what their body needs at the time.Chet Day claims in his long article, that most people on the hallelujah diet actually cheat and eat meat. If that is true, than how does that cause protein deficiencies? I would think that the hallelujah diet is not balanced and the amounts and types of foods and does not change with the changing needs of the body.Vegans often focus on not eating animal products strictly for the sake of not eating animal products. French fries and a diet cola is vegan, but not very healthy. Vegans who eat balanced diets are usually healthy. Vegans who don't are not.Rather than stereotype all of a group as being bad (all vegan is bad, all raw is bad, all fat is bad, all carbohydrate is bad, etc.), it is better to recognize that there is some good and some bad in everything. And everything is constantly changing.The best plan is to eat to optimize your health. Monitor your health with the help of medical doctors, nutritionists, TCM, etc. Take vitamins, minerals, and food supplements, as needed (not forever), to mitigate the effects deficiencies, not to make up for lack of lifestyle.I'm sure this post will generate a lot of hate mail.-- Donald E. Jacobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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