Welcome to acupuncture@onelist.com

[Guest guest]

my name is Dieter, im living in Bonn Germany and im working as a doctor with

people addicted to heroine, cocaine and similar stuff. my personal interest is

in chinese medicine and more of the socalled " wholeistic " view and i try to

apply my knowledge with my patients. Im looking for some inspiration new ways,

advice from people with experience and casediscussions etc. So i hope for the

best, and look foreward to everything that comes via email.

[Guest guest]

Nice to hear from you, Dieter. I work a few hours a week at a drug detox

" drop-in " service. Our patients are all kinds with a lot coming from the

homeless shelters. Many are not addicted but simply have mental problems or

stress from living without homes.

It is an interesting job...

 

 

talk to you soon,

 

http://taiqi.com

[Guest guest]

Hi, i would like to introduce myself, i am Dieter from Bonn in Germany. I

would like to apply acupuncture and chinese herbs more often and more

conscious with my patients than i do now. My Patients are mostly heroine,

cocaine and Benzodiazepine addicts, and we have as the basic structure the

methadone program and secondly a little six bed detoxification-home where they

will usually stay for about three to four weeks, while we give them decreasing

amounts of methadone and/or benzodiazepine, and try to treat there problems

coming up during the process of getting " drugfree " . Especially these problems

are insomnia, backpain(kidneyarea), restlessness with a high pulse and low

bloodpressure, a special vegetative imbalance resulting in a feeling of

" butterflies " emerging from solar plexus area with hot and cold flashes

through the whole body, bursts of aggressiveness, suppressed emotions and many

others. So far i started a little acupuncture " program " , using mainly the

socalled NADA-Earpoints, vegetative, Shenmen, kidney, liver, lung, with little

adjustments as to different expressions of the withdrawal syndrome. The result

is generally a relaxed state which lasts for a while, but doesn't very much

help with the insomnia. Similar problems come up with the patients in the

methadone program. I am also very interested in chinese herb prescriptions for

the diagnostic area of Yin deficiency states (kidney, heart, liver, spleen),

(Liver) qi-depression and stagnation, and Yang up states as in the many

violent outbursts that i see with my patients every day. Since we dont have a

high budget, i try to find simple prescriptions, as for example the " gan mai

da zao tang " , which consists of elements that i can all get from either

natural health shops or chinese shops and i dont have to buy anything from a

pharmacy and do not have to pay the costs of importing a foreign medicine.

I learned chinese medicine quite a while ago, started with it at 1979, and

began treating patients in the years following, mainly in the practice of a

friend doctors. toword the end of the eighties i learned other stuff, mostly

in the area of computers, but didnt find the thing i wanted to do there. now

it seems that i have something that i can do a little more soundly biased, and

i try to bring into it chinese and holistic thinking and treatment. As my own

energies seem to be more in balance with this job, everything starts to fall

into place, im less and less exhausted when i come home, so it seems to be the

time to take a closer look and put some more consciousness into my work, for

example make an attempt to find exact chinese diagnosis and therapy. Anyone

who has any suggestions, questions, advice, discussions in this area of

symptoms, energies, costs, import of herbs whatsoever, please feel free to

write.

[Guest guest]

Well, thats sounds like you are doing alot, Dieter!

Some first comments from someone who works in a modest out-patient detox

center.

Methadone seems very hard to kick -especially- in those last milligrams. We

don't know why but there seems to alot of trouble with what would seem to an

insignificant amount of the drug. We especially encourage those getting off of

-methadone- to get acupuncture for a week.

My friends in China use Niu Huang Jie du Pian (one can be sure there is only

buffalo horn in these at the price they sell them) as a clear heat/detox pill

for drug addiction. I tried it with one patient and it relieved his

constipation at least.

At our clinic we use Du 20 (BaiWei?) alot in standard treatments. When someone

is very agitated we use Si Sheng Chong (the four needles pointed at BaiWei) to

calm them more.

In private practice I would use something like Jia Wei Xiao Yao Wan with Long

Gu and Mu Li (very heavy shells, stone) to sedate the mind.

 

Best of luck,

L.Ac.

[Guest guest]

A few more thoughts for Dieter... I'm not quite sure what your level of skill

is so please don't take offense if you know this already.

A set of points which would good for the symptoms you describe would be

Liver 3, Large Intestine 4, Pericardium 6, Ren (CV) 17, Anmian (a special

point near GB 20 and SJ (TB) 17 - for insomnia).

Also lung 7 and Kidney 6 for especially yin Deficient cases.

CV 12, 6 and stomach 25 for the butterflies in the stomach.

 

Also chamamile (manzanilla) tea taken throughout the day is a good idea.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dieter,

 

I received your email from the onelist listing. I'm the head of

Programme at Middlesex University in London. At the

moment several colleagues and myself are investigating the use of

laser acupuncture on the control of addiction. I would enjoy hearing

your experience of using acupuncture in the control of addiction.

 

Looking forward to more,

 

All the best,

 

Paul.

 

> Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:17:08 -0400 (EDT)

> VFGDM1

> acupuncture Re: Welcome to acupuncture

> acupuncture

> Reply-to: acupuncture

 

> VFGDM1

>

> Hi, i would like to introduce myself, i am Dieter from Bonn in Germany. I

> would like to apply acupuncture and chinese herbs more often and more

> conscious with my patients than i do now. My Patients are mostly heroine,

> cocaine and Benzodiazepine addicts, and we have as the basic structure the

> methadone program and secondly a little six bed detoxification-home where they

> will usually stay for about three to four weeks, while we give them decreasing

> amounts of methadone and/or benzodiazepine, and try to treat there problems

> coming up during the process of getting " drugfree " . Especially these problems

> are insomnia, backpain(kidneyarea), restlessness with a high pulse and low

> bloodpressure, a special vegetative imbalance resulting in a feeling of

> " butterflies " emerging from solar plexus area with hot and cold flashes

> through the whole body, bursts of aggressiveness, suppressed emotions and many

> others. So far i started a little acupuncture " program " , using mainly the

> socalled NADA-Earpoints, vegetative, Shenmen, kidney, liver, lung, with little

> adjustments as to different expressions of the withdrawal syndrome. The result

> is generally a relaxed state which lasts for a while, but doesn't very much

> help with the insomnia. Similar problems come up with the patients in the

> methadone program. I am also very interested in chinese herb prescriptions for

> the diagnostic area of Yin deficiency states (kidney, heart, liver, spleen),

> (Liver) qi-depression and stagnation, and Yang up states as in the many

> violent outbursts that i see with my patients every day. Since we dont have a

> high budget, i try to find simple prescriptions, as for example the " gan mai

> da zao tang " , which consists of elements that i can all get from either

> natural health shops or chinese shops and i dont have to buy anything from a

> pharmacy and do not have to pay the costs of importing a foreign medicine.

> I learned chinese medicine quite a while ago, started with it at 1979, and

> began treating patients in the years following, mainly in the practice of a

> friend doctors. toword the end of the eighties i learned other stuff, mostly

> in the area of computers, but didnt find the thing i wanted to do there. now

> it seems that i have something that i can do a little more soundly biased, and

> i try to bring into it chinese and holistic thinking and treatment. As my own

> energies seem to be more in balance with this job, everything starts to fall

> into place, im less and less exhausted when i come home, so it seems to be the

> time to take a closer look and put some more consciousness into my work, for

> example make an attempt to find exact chinese diagnosis and therapy. Anyone

> who has any suggestions, questions, advice, discussions in this area of

> symptoms, energies, costs, import of herbs whatsoever, please feel free to

> write.

>

> ------

> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or

> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit

> /advert.html for more information.

>

Paul Lowe

Programme Leader

Traditional

School of Health, Biological and Environmental Sciences

Middlesex University

Phone: +44 (0) 976 678 643

Pager: +44 (0) 1426 103829

E-mail: p.lowe

[Guest guest]

Hi, this email is in response to your welcome letter. I am currently a

student of Acupuncture and Oriental medicine, so I am interested in anything

that has to do with these topics. I am also looking foward to sharing some of

my own experiences in Acupuncture as well.

 

Thanks,

Jasmine

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/10/98 9:53:48 AM EST,

VicandPat writes:

<<

I have been using my machine for about three years now and would not be

without it. I just wish that I understood it more.

Pat Newton

>>

I've studied acupuncture for 4 years, went to China, practiced for a few years

and I wish that I understood it more too! ;-)

It is quite a wonderfully complex system.... The reactive feelings you get can

be understood by looking at the acupuncture chart with all the lines on the

body. These " highways " are all connected (as well as go into the body to feed

the internal organs. There are many intersections where several of these

pathways meet. In a way what we are doing with acupuncture is unblocking

traffic jams of energy so it moves more smoothly around the body....

(Actually these metaphors are used in many chinese texts although they use the

train and train station metaphor)

Hopes this helps your understanding somewhat.

L.Ac.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jasmine,

 

I'm also a newbie. My interest in acupuncture is as a consumer. I have a

genetic disorder which produces considerable spinal and leg pain and I use

an electro-acupuncture machine to help this.

 

I must admit to being puzzled by some of the comments I have read in

manuals. For example it is usually stated that acupuncture is painless

whereas I find that it can be quite painful. In fact I have learned to look

forward to a little soreness pain when administering it because the greater

the pain I experience the more relief that treating that spot seems to

bring.

 

I am also puzzled by the fact that treating some points appears to produce a

reactive tingling at other points. For example ,when treating a particular

point on the spine I can feel a reactive tingling across to my arm.

 

I have been using my machine for about three years now and would not be

without it. I just wish that I understood it more.

 

Pat Newton

[Guest guest]

Yes, very true. To experience the reactive feelings

is just as wonderful as to understand the complexity

of this system. I hope everyone could share our

views.

 

Alvin Fireman

 

 

At 11:42 AM 12/10/98 EST, you wrote:

>

>

>In a message dated 12/10/98 9:53:48 AM EST,

>VicandPat writes:

><<

> I have been using my machine for about three years now and would not be

>without it. I just wish that I understood it more.

> Pat Newton

> >>

>I've studied acupuncture for 4 years, went to China, practiced for a few years

>and I wish that I understood it more too! ;-)

>It is quite a wonderfully complex system.... The reactive feelings you get can

>be understood by looking at the acupuncture chart with all the lines on the

>body. These " highways " are all connected (as well as go into the body to feed

>the internal organs. There are many intersections where several of these

>pathways meet. In a way what we are doing with acupuncture is unblocking

>traffic jams of energy so it moves more smoothly around the body....

>(Actually these metaphors are used in many chinese texts although they use the

>train and train station metaphor)

>Hopes this helps your understanding somewhat.

> L.Ac.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Pat. It's no surprise that you are experiencing pain when you have

certain acupuncture points needled. In a way, one can say that the more pain

you feel in one point, the more stagnation and/or deficiency of Qi you have in

that particular channel (Qi being the energy/lifeforce...its meaning is

difficult to define). For example, Li4(a point on the large intestine channel

found in the meaty portion between the thumb and forefinger on the dorsum of

the hand) causes excruciating pain for me that makes me break into a cold

sweat and nearly pass out! Also, the amount and extent of pain you feel

depends on how the acupuncturist is needling you, how much they twist the

needles, etc.... However, if you are noticing any bruising or broken skin

after a treatment, I would be concerned.

 

As far as feeling tingling sensations in areas of the body where you are NOT

being needled, that is to be expected. Acupuncture points are located all

over the body in a series of channels; each channel represents a specific

organ, but of course, all the channels have connections to each other. For

example, I recently watched one woman being treated for Heart heat, and the

acupuncturist needled a Small intestine point located on her pinky finger.

Not only did she feel a significant release of heat from the chest region, but

she also felt Qi flowing more smoothly through her small intestine. The point

being that in Chinese medicine, the Heart and Small Intestine channels are

significantly interrelated which explains why she felt a change in both of

those organ systems. So, if you are feeling tingles running through your arm

when a point is needled on your back, then the acupuncturist is working on a

channel that passes over that region, and what you are feeling is the release

of stagnate Qi.

 

I hope this helped you. If you have any other questions, please feel free to

email me again.

 

Jasmine

[Guest guest]

Aloha, my name is Vicki, my husband is an acupuncturist, but not much of a

computer person, so I'm here for him. I look forward to giving him info from

this group and asking questions or sharing stories for him. Thank you!

[Guest guest]

>From acupuncture-return-pulcinello Sun Feb 21 07:25:19 1999

>Received: from [209.207.164.213] by hotmail.com (1.1) with SMTP id

MHotMailB899705FEE6BD101708FD1CFA4D5319B0; Sun Feb 21 07:25:19 1999

>Received: (qmail 26866 invoked by alias); 21 Feb 1999 15:20:48 -0000

>21 Feb 1999 15:20:48 -0000

>Message-ID: <919610448.26799 >

>pulcinello

>acupuncture Welcome to acupuncture

>acupuncture-owner

>Reply-to: acupuncture

>

>Hello,Welcome to the Acupuncture list.

>

>Please take a moment to review this message.

>To from this list, go to the ONElist web

>site, at www., and select the User Center

>link from the menu bar on the left. This menu will

> also let you change your subscription between digest

>and normal mode.

>

>I hope you find some things of interest on this list!

>Please introduce yourself so we can get to know each other

>a little better. If you have success stories, questions

>or comments about acupuncture, let this be your place

>to go. So enjoy and be well!

>

>Lauren

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

My name is Liz and I'll be receiving my Master's degree in Acupuncture

this June. I should have my license from the state within a month or so

of graduation and will be setting up my practice.

I'm interested in discussing cases with other acupuncturists on line.

And, of course, I'd like to hear the experiences of patients receiving

acupuncture treatments.

I haven't yet studied TCM herbology, but have had a long standing

interest in Western herbs. I will be going back to school in the fall to

study Chinese herbs and hope to incorporate them into my practice.

Greetings to all, Liz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 28 Mar 1999 02:11:31 -0000 acupuncture-owner writes:

>Hello,Welcome to the Acupuncture list.

>

>Please take a moment to review this message.

>To from this list, go to the ONElist web

>site, at www., and select the User Center

>link from the menu bar on the left. This menu will

> also let you change your subscription between digest

>and normal mode.

>

>I hope you find some things of interest on this list!

>Please introduce yourself so we can get to know each other

>a little better. If you have success stories, questions

>or comments about acupuncture, let this be your place

>to go. So enjoy and be well!

>

>Lauren

>

>

>

 

_________________

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html

or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

[Guest guest]

Let me say hello. I am a chiropractic physician certified in acupuncture. I

have had wonderful success with it in some cases. I hope to learn more by

participating in this list.

 

Dr. Snowruby

--

 

On 7 Apr 1999 17:04:41 -0000 acupuncture-owner wrote:

>Hello,Welcome to the Acupuncture list.

 

>

 

>Please take a moment to review this message.

 

>To from this list, go to the ONElist web

 

>site, at www., and select the User Center

 

>link from the menu bar on the left. This menu will

 

> also let you change your subscription between digest

 

>and normal mode.

 

>

 

>I hope you find some things of interest on this list!

 

>Please introduce yourself so we can get to know each other

 

>a little better. If you have success stories, questions

 

>or comments about acupuncture, let this be your place

 

>to go. So enjoy and be well!

 

>

 

>Lauren

 

>

 

>

>

 

 

Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

[Guest guest]

are you on medications for the pain?

[Guest guest]

At 14:31 17/04/99 -0000, you wrote:

>Hello,Welcome to the Acupuncture list.

>

>Please take a moment to review this message.

>To from this list, go to the ONElist web

>site, at www., and select the User Center

>link from the menu bar on the left. This menu will

> also let you change your subscription between digest

>and normal mode.

>

>I hope you find some things of interest on this list!

>Please introduce yourself so we can get to know each other

>a little better. If you have success stories, questions

>or comments about acupuncture, let this be your place

>to go. So enjoy and be well!

>

>Lauren

 

Hello Lauren. Thanks for the welcome!

 

I joined this list so that I hopefully could get some information about

acupuncture. My name is Robert and I am 33 years old. I am a

microbiologist but have not worked for two years because I have suffered a

back complaint that the medicos think is some damage to a couple of

vertebrae. I get severe backache and my legs are quite numb. I am on a

waiting list for an operation but this is still some way off, and I cant

afford to have the op done privately.

 

Two days ago I visited an acupuncturist who has a good reputation. I have

been sceptical about acupuncture ( as a microbiologist, most scientists

are!) but I confess I was surprised at the physical effects the

acupuncture needles had on me. Obviously it is very real and as he

explained to me, has nothing to do with psychology. He said he thought he

could do something for my condition and I am to visit him again on Tuesday

after having treatment on Friday last. He warned me that I would suffer

pain that night but that it would ease by this morning.

 

After the treatment I suffered a very great deal of pain in my lower back

and legs - far more than ever I thought. I mean, it was very bad indeed.

This morning it is not quite so bad, but still very severe. I would like

to know if this common with acupuncture treatment. I have read that

afterpain is common, and I have even read that it is a good sign, since it

shows that the doctor has located the root of the problem. I wonder if

any of the list members can throw any light on this aspect of the

treatment? If I know the pain will ease then I can bear the present

trouble with a bit more composure!

 

I am sure there are a large number of correspondents on the list who can

throw some light on this for me, a veritable beginner in the subject! I

would be grateful for any information. Thanks in advance!

 

Robert

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 18:35 17/04/99 EDT, you wrote:

>

>

>are you on medications for the pain?

>

>------

Only on paracetamol, which was fairly satisfactory for the pain levels I

experienced before the acupuncture. Unfortunately my prolonged

inactiveness has brought on a thrombosis in the leg, and I am being treated

with Warfarin at the moment, which precludes the use of such analgesics as

Ibuprofen etc. Paracetamol is wholly unsuccessful with the present pain.

 

Robert

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately, this does happen with acupucture sometimes... Yes, if you keep

going back the acupuncturist should take away the added pain and bring it

under what you previously experienced. Hopefully, way under. I really do

think that acupuncture is your best bet for your back and the numbness (and

your thrombosis).

Sometimes an acupuncturist can relieve the pain with one session but this is

rare. Too aggressive an approach can set the patient back especially when the

patient is on medication. I do think your acupuncturist has indeed found the

source of the problem. Hang in there and let us know what happens.

[Guest guest]

At 17:46 18/04/99 EDT, you wrote:

>

>

>Unfortunately, this does happen with acupucture sometimes... Yes, if you

keep

>going back the acupuncturist should take away the added pain and bring it

>under what you previously experienced. Hopefully, way under. I really do

>think that acupuncture is your best bet for your back and the numbness (and

>your thrombosis).

>Sometimes an acupuncturist can relieve the pain with one session but this is

>rare. Too aggressive an approach can set the patient back especially when

the

>patient is on medication. I do think your acupuncturist has indeed found the

>source of the problem. Hang in there and let us know what happens.

>

 

 

Very many thanks for your reply, which has been a great comfort to me. In

fact, after a reasonable night's sleep (with the aid of sleeping pills!) I

have felt marginally better today, the pain being perhaps not quite so

intense. I am due to see the acupuncturist again on Tuesday, and your

letter has helped me decide that I will certainly continue treatement. I

would very much like to keep you informed of progress. Again many hanks

for the consideration of your reply.

 

All the best,

 

Robert

[Guest guest]

Hi! My name is COCO. I live in Missouri. I'm 41. I do Day Care in my

home. And I'm looking for way's to make myself healthy. I have

Restless Leg Syndrome. Thanks.

 

acupuncture-owner wrote:

 

> Hello,Welcome to the Acupuncture list.

>

> Please take a moment to review this message.

> To from this list, go to the ONElist web

> site, at www., and select the User Center

> link from the menu bar on the left. This menu will

> also let you change your subscription between digest

> and normal mode.

>

> I hope you find some things of interest on this list!

> Please introduce yourself so we can get to know each other

> a little better. If you have success stories, questions

> or comments about acupuncture, let this be your place

> to go. So enjoy and be well!

>

> Lauren

[Guest guest]

mainard wrote:

>

> mainard <mainard

>

> Hi! My name is COCO. I live in Missouri. I'm 41. I do Day Care in my

> home. And I'm looking for way's to make myself healthy. I have

> Restless Leg Syndrome. Thanks.

 

Please see:

http://www.acupuncture.com/askus/restless.htm

 

Hope that helps.

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<Allstone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

<< One other thing;be sure and ask if he uses disposable needles or disinfects

them. >>

 

Everyone... uses disposable needles these days...

[Guest guest]

Hi I have never actually had acupuncture performed, but I have many

questions. I want to know if it helps with depression. What is

treatment like (does it hurt? I'm not big on needles of any kind).

How much should I expect to pay? And what should I look for in a

practitioner (ie qualifications).

Thank you, Carrie

[Guest guest]

Hi! I'm new too. But I'll share what little I know with you. I pay $27. a

visit. I'm enrolled in a discount program that started out at $40. I

called other places that charged $80. I have had 2 visits so far. I go to

Independence,Mo. Some places he put the needle in and I didn't feel them.

Other places I felt them but it really wasn't bad. I'm squeamish about

needles too. I feel very comfortable with this person. I would think you

would have to to let them put needles in you on a regular basis. He has

studied with Masters in China and Japan and has also taught acupuncture. I

got his name from Dr. Weil's website. And we just clicked. The more he

told me the more I liked what I heard. Let me know if I can be of more

help. COCO MO.

 

Carrie wrote:

 

> " Carrie " <hel428

>

> Hi I have never actually had acupuncture performed, but I have many

> questions. I want to know if it helps with depression. What is

> treatment like (does it hurt? I'm not big on needles of any kind).

> How much should I expect to pay? And what should I look for in a

> practitioner (ie qualifications).

> Thank you, Carrie

>

> ------

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