Digest Number 131

January 7, 2000

Laxman, (are you by chance a Sikh? Just curious,) for clarification (to me)

when you or any of the rest of you desiring to refer to yourselves as

" Doctor " , are you using the term in the old, (perhaps original) way of

doctor = teacher, or in the more conventional modern context of doctor =

one who has an officially earned Doctorate degree? If you use it in the

former sense then I guess any number of people in any number of professions

who 'teaches' others is then to be considered a " doctor " ; ergo - a veteran

plumber 'teaching' an understudy would then be called 'doctor', or a senior

mechanic in a large garage 'teaching' a novice mechanic should then be a

'doctor'.

Physician, on the other hand, (as I believe Isabelle was alluding to), is

defined in my handy-dandy Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 10th

Ed., as being one of the following:

1. a person skilled in the art of healing; specifically a doctor of

medicine; or, 2. one exerting a remedial or salutary influence.

(?) Frankly, I didn't know what the term " salutary " meant, so looking that

one up (same reference) it said: Salutary: 1. producing a beneficial effect

: REMEDIAL (~ influences) 2. promoting health : CURATIVE. So..., unless

one has earned a doctorate (regardless of whether or not it's from one of

the so called correspondence 'paper-mills' or if it's a legitimate DOM,

OMD, etc., isn't it still best to refer to oneself simply as a

physician? IMHO Dane (R. Dane Looman)

At 11:24 AM 01/07/2000 +0000, you wrote:

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>There are 9 messages in this issue.

>

>Topics in today's digest:

>

> 1. Re: Digest Number 130

> Melissa Schultz Laxman Rajput <lakukulu

> 2. Comments about Chiros & MDs

> mbuyze

> 3. Re: Comments about Chiros & MDs

> JADEFRST

> 4. Did I go into the wrong room?

> " Pedro Morales " <pamg21

> 5. Re: Did I go into the wrong room?

> " geovani " <inandor

> 6. Re: Did I go into the wrong room?

> Greg Dember <dember

> 7. Dr. J.R.Worsley

> " geovani " <inandor

> 8. Re: I did go into the right room!

> " geovani " <inandor

> 9. RE: Digest Number 130

> " Janine Wrzesniewski " <Janine

>

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>Message: 1

> Thu, 6 Jan 2000 05:06:09 -0800 (PST)

> Melissa Schultz Laxman Rajput <lakukulu

>Re: Digest Number 130

>

>Isabell, this too will pass. I understand your concern about the fact

>that M.D.'s and chiropractors trying to phase us out. But remember the

>holy war was fought because people were afraid. I personally think that

>the idea of calling ourselves doctors or having titles like DOM. OMD

>and all that is not correct. One thing is the moment we call ourselves

>doctors it comes with all the negative (as well as positive, not true

>in our case) connotation.

>

>In the chinese martial art, the teacher is called Si Fu. In the

>Japanese, Sensei. So why not call ourselves Yi Sheng, and all you

>other folks doing the needle thing for a while Lao Yi. Change is

>inevitable, and difficult so why not me?

>

>Rajput, Laxmansingh (Laxman)

>

> >

> > Message: 1

> > Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:46:37 EST

> > McArenAcu

> > (no subject)

> >

> > Thank you to R. Dane, R. Scott and Janine for such thought out and

> > helpful

> > responses. I appreciate being 'shored up' by your words of

> > encouragement. On

> > the comments made by R. Scott about Chiropractors having the same

> > training as

> > MD's, I want to say that I also have had a lot of science;

> > microbiology,

> > anatomy and physiology, 2 years of chemistry including organic,

> > neurology,

> > pathology, biology, etc. Too bad I can't call myself a doctor! It

> > would

> > probably help.

> >

> > I have respect for all complementary modalities and I have referred

> > patients

> > to chiropractors many times. I also go to chiros when I need to. If

> > someone

> > needs to go to the emergency room or to get antibiotics, then I say

> > so. My

> > problem was just with the way the other practitioners around here

> > want to

> > phase us out instead of working in conjuction with us. When I was in

> > China

> > doing an internship, the physicians and the acupuncturists worked

> > hand in

> > hand and they both earned equal respect. No one touted their methods

> > as

> > better than the other.

> >

> > We have a new center here in Rockford, Illinois that teaches the Dean

> > Ornish

> > program for heart disease. They give other classes on various modes

> > of

> > alternative healing, and they were even looking to hire an

> > acupuncturist. I

> > called them about it and they turned me down flat. They said they

> > only wanted

> > an acupuncturist that was an MD or a chiropractor because they wanted

> >

> > insurance to cover it. Very depressing.

> >

> > Isabell McAren

>

>Talk to your friends online with Messenger.

>http://im.

>

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>Message: 2

> 6 Jan 2000 13:28:51 -0000

> mbuyze

>Comments about Chiros & MDs

>

>Isabell:

>

>Interesting comments, but don't let it get you down too much. I was in

>Rockford over the Holidays and happen to find an article in the local

>newspaper (December 24th Register, I think) about an HMO that is letting

>chiropractors be listed as " primary MDs " (primarily Chicago area at this

>point). This is amazing and shows how far chiros have come in the last few

>years in Illinois. The AMA seems to be losing its strangle hold on the

>gate into the medical system. If you remember, the chiros fought the AMA

>long and hard in Illinois to get where they are (including court battles).

>While I don't appreciate individuals who disrespect other modalities (like

>acupuncture), I do understand the tendency to try to hold on to what you

>have (sometimes, unfortunately at the exclusion of others). Acupuncture is

>only beginning to become recognized in the U.S. The acupuncture laws in

>Illinois are bad right now, but it least it is not illegal to practice

>like it was only 2 or 3 years ago! You are in a great situation! Just be

>patient and persistent and good things will happen!

>

>Haven't seen you in a while, hope all is well with you.

>

>Michael

>

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>Message: 3

> Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:10:37 EST

> JADEFRST

>Re: Comments about Chiros & MDs

>

>You're very right. It's all in the context and perspective I guess.

>Sometimes I succumb to fear-mongering and myopia.

>Who knows in five years where we'll be?

>

>Long life,

>R. Scott

>

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>Message: 4

> Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:37:07 -0000

> " Pedro Morales " <pamg21

>Did I go into the wrong room?

>

>Dear Listers,

>Please help me to clear up my way...

>I have been about 2 weeks on this list waiting to find some (serious)

>discussion on Acupuncture, but up to now have just found some discussions on

>economy and politics.

>May you excuse me, I don't mean to be rude, but ... am I in the right list?

>

>Dr. Pedro Morales

>pamg21

>Venezuela

>

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>Message: 5

> Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:57:28 -0200

> " geovani " <inandor

>Re: Did I go into the wrong room?

>

>Dear Listers,

>Please help me to clear up my way...

>I have been about 2 weeks on this list waiting to find some (serious)

>discussion on Acupuncture, but up to now have just found some discussions on

>economy and politics.

>May you excuse me, I don't mean to be rude, but ... am I in the right list?

>

>Dr. Pedro Morales

>pamg21

>Venezuela

>

>geovani> Definitly yes!! You are on the right spot. Sometimes people

>stay silent in this forum. Other times we wander off-subject. But many times

>it is very interesting indeed. What would you like to tell us about your

>acupuncturist

> " path " , and what would you like to ask? In wich pathological " field " you think

>acupuncture is moust effective? Do you know anything about the modality

>of the " five elements acupuncture " ? Do you take in consideration the names

>of points? Have you ever noticed any " agravation " after the first

>sessions, or

>at any other time? How much importance do give to the " mental simptoms " ?

>

>wellcome, Pedro...

>

>geovani

>

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>Message: 6

> Thu, 6 Jan 00 14:00:16 -0800

> Greg Dember <dember

>Re: Did I go into the wrong room?

>

>Before the holiday season, there was some fairly good discussion about

>acupuncture and theory.

>

>Are you an acupuncturist? Let's talk. Here's what I'm thinking about

>currently. I'm considering taking on a preceptor, which is a student

>from the local school who wants to observe a practitioner outside of the

>school clinic setting. In thinking about what I would have to

>demonstrate, I realize that much of how I've come to practice is

>intuitive. I'm not sure how I would explain to a student what I was

>doing. This does not make me think I would not have something valuable

>to share with a student, but it just got me wondering, how much of what

>you guys do is within some theory or other (that you could easily

>explain) and how much is by intuition/qi awareness?

>

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>Message: 7

> Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:04:25 -0200

> " geovani " <inandor

>Dr. J.R.Worsley

>

>geovani> Anybody has any idea on how to find Dr. Worsley books?

>Thanks.

>

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>Message: 8

> Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:37:32 -0200

> " geovani " <inandor

>Re: I did go into the right room!