Wood&metal

[Guest guest]

Pedro> Personally I use and believe in 5 elements, yet I disagree with a 5

phase cycle, as earth is the center, not a part of the wheel. It is a

protoelement previous to the other four. This theory has changed several times

through chinese history , as Richard Ambelain (french sinologist and author of

varios books on chinese thought) states.

 

geovani>I see it much simpler then that. One, or some people - 3 thousund

years ago - " discovered " that there is a law that rules certain interrelations.

They saw that it consisted of 5 phases. Then they associated each one of this

phases or elements to something in nature, to something that would

render it easy to memorise and transmit. If this would be discovered today,

probably the associated elements would not be those. Maybe something like

electrons, photons, neutrons. Or some matematical relation. The important part

is not the name of the elements, imo, but the existence of such relations. You

seem to give special importance to the element " earth " . No need to. The

important thing would be to see the validation of the 5 phase movement - with

any names.

 

Pedro> In no way I am attached to names. You can call earth, aether or end

of summer or what ever. If we see the world with innocent eyes, as the

discoverer of the elements approach would do, you'll see there are but four

elements, not five, and they move as a wheel in time, and disposed in space also

as a wheel. A wheel has rays and has a center. That center is what chinese call

Earth. And yes, I do give a special importance to " EArth " . Stomach is the main

entrance to Yong energy in San Jiao (triple Warmer). It is the surplus of daily

energy in the body. Earth relates to simpathy, which is the sound manifestation

of love. A person who loves the world, including him self has a sound phisiology

of ST-SP duality. Stress affects all the system, yet mostly Stomach (gastric

ulcer and gastritis, trismus, thyroid problems, Knee problems, bruxismus).

Stomach is the only Yang meridian riding on a yin surface. According to Dr.

Reinhold Voll, creator of a system of acupunture of his own, some 60 years ago,

stomach is directly and primarly related to most endocrine glands, including

adrenals, ovaries, testicles, thyroid, parathyroid, breasts. It also relates to

maxilar sinus. So, it is very important and it belongs to earth element! There

is a need to give special importance to it. Validation of 5 phase movement can

only come when one developes our own discernment toward such principles, when

one is capable of seeing them in nature every day, when one recognices what

fire, or wood or metal would be in every aspect of our dayly life, and also to

accept that sages, as big as they would had been, were also humans, and capable

of making mistakes in their perspective.

 

Pedro>I mean here several things. One of them is that Acupuncture is not all

over accepted in many of its principles, one of them being 5 phase cycle. When

we diagnose according to yin & yang we do not necesarily use 5 phase theory. It is

a more basic approach, and historically appeared earlier. For example if you

have influenza with cold feet and headache and legs weak, and hot hands, then

you have a syndrome of excess of yang in the upper and deficiency of yang in the

lower. So you do some of known points to push yang to the lower, like 37Stom.

Besides that, mother & son change according to a 4+1 phase or a 5 phase cycle.

If you study Dr. Van gni monumental work on acupuncture, you can see he

defends 5 phase theory, but when it comes to practice, yin yang theory weights

more than the former.

 

geovani> An organ is " weak " because yin or yang is lacking. That is what is

seen, what is

perceived pragmaticaly either through the pulse, or questionary, or any

other means.Now one has

to act. I can hardly think of any line of action that would not use the 5E

implicitly or explicitly.

Pedro> There are many lines of action which do not imply 5E.

1-Take trigger point approach for example.

2- In classic diagnosis, San Jiao diagnosis, what you want to know is the

capacity of Triple Warmer to nourish the body to form the essence, to mix it

with ancestral energy and chi from air. The eight rules of diagnosis states that

one needs to know the eight aspects (yin-yang, cold-hot, empty-full,

inner-outer). So you can make up your treatment without 5e approach.

3- A very classic rule of treatment is to needle one extreme of the meridian

when the other extreme is diseased.

and so on, examples are many...

 

Pedro>...5 phase theory is very appealing, and I believe it rests on a sound

thrue which is the cuaternary cycle of every material phenomena. Yet here the

problems begin, because, do we really understand the meaning of air, water, fire

and earth?, being aether(Earth) the 5th element.

 

Pedro> Now, I propose you something: Let's consider this discussion in terms

of 5 elements phase. Who are the actors in the play?. Who is earth? Who is fire?

There is you and me -what we do represent? There is the list as a neutral arena

in Internet. There is a lot of people enjoying while watching us sucking our

brains -what they do represent in terms of 5 E? Which is the predominat quality

of our selves which makes us feel as we feel and fight a point of view? Who is

yin and who is yang, who empty and who full?