SV: 5E and 8 conditions

[Guest guest]

Murray,

 

Thanks for you interpretation of what SHEN is. I think many

people have they own interpretation of SHEN vis á vis Mind

and Soul/Spirit

 

You are absolute in your discourse as if you have the key

and the answers. Of course you don't and nor do I. I've learned

to deal and treat SHEN as SHEN and simply leave it at

that.

 

Splitting up body/mind/soul would be a " mistake " in treatment.

For example treating SHEN is the same as treating the

body/mind/soul all in one. You need not have a philosophical

debate on what is what and whether or what exist.

 

I agree to a certain extent to treat the physical. But ask yourself

this question : Is the mind physical? Sure the brain is physical!

 

Another thing is that Ren Mai, Tu Mai, Chong Mai, Dai Mai,

Yang Wei, Yin Wei, Yang Qiao and Yin Qiao are abstract

and dont really have their own meridians , besides Ren and

Tu/Du.

 

Because this physical manisfestation lacks should you not

use them and increase the scope of your treatment?

What I mean here is , well I'm going back to SHEN . Treat

SHEN as it is instead of getting into the discourse of whether

or not we can treat SHEN(spirit)

 

We can treat SHEN and one can interpret it how one likes!

 

hmm after reading this it does seem a touch assertive it isn't

written to offen . Please take it as you wish!

 

Sincerely

 

Patrick Dooley, President

Global Commerce

---

TCM, Acupuncturist.

Personal and Leadership Facilitator.

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Sweden Phone: +46 70 354 6541

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Manuia (mah noo'ya) Tahitian for " Good Fortune "

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patrick

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-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----

Från: murray cole [murrayc]

Skickat: den 11 mars 2000 10:38

Till: acupuncture onelist

Ämne: acupuncture 5E and 8 conditions

 

 

" murray cole " <murrayc

 

 

geovani> Thanks Murray. I understand what you are saying

up to the point where my understanding of TCM permits me, so far.

There seem to be three levels of understanding envolved here. First, and

the more superficial (in the understanding of the nature of the

imbalance of the patient) the following of recepies. And at a second

and third level I am placing the diagnosis related to the 8 conditions

that you mention and the Caustive Factor approache. The later (what I call

5E)

states that deseises - cronic conditions, here - are always decorrent

of ONE distressed element (from 5), and in fact one of the two pairs

of the element. But to identify this distressed organ/meredian can not

be acheived in a very simple manner - because of the generation and

domination cicles of the elements, any one of the 12 zang-fu could cause

one particular simptom through the propagation efect of those cicles.

 

So the ancient people discovered that one can find this element if

we look for it in the " spirit " - roughfly, a level of the mental and

the emocional body. But in the end... the organ/vicera should be

identified.

 

How would you relate the 8 conditions diagnose approache to the

above? Unfortunatly I am very " green " in the understanding of this

traditional " energetic level " approache - although Mr. Wu (my teacher here)

will go into it soon...

 

Hi Geovani, First you need to choose the correct meridian or meridians, by

selecting the symptoms that match the meridian indications, [if you don't

have this info let me know and I'll send it to your email address. The 8

conditions are how you treat the selected points, because each disease has 1

or more condition attached to it. E.G. it can be like a day, each day has

conditions, it could be windy, hot, cold, sunny, cloudy, raining,snowing

etc.

 

Its the same with a problem or disease,it also has a condition, [ most

acupuncturists think that the patient has the conditions] this is not

correct, the condition belongs to the disease, it's the disease that

changes the bodies energy each time you see them, as you know the disease

changes for all sorts of reasons, as it goes deeper or gets better, the

symptoms change.

 

You are correct when you say the organ needs to be identified first, you

cannot diagnose properly by picking the emotions, when you treat a person

you mostly have an effect on the physical about 90%, and 10% approx on the

mental or emotional, but no acupuncture has an affect on the spiritual, it

never has and it never will, this a great misunderstanding and

mistranslation. This idea was introduced over the centuries,after the

original sciences were developed and has no basis in the original sciences.

 

Only the person can change the spiritual, if they want to. This is a very

important point and will help you sort the real practitioners from the

esoterical types, remember that Acupuncture is very real, people are real,

disease is real, treat what is real, what you can see and touch. Don't bring

spiritual ideas into your acupuncture, keep them separate and you will be

safe and on the road to being a useful practitioner to your patients.They

are 2 different areas.

 

If you can't understand an answer that you are given, keep asking the

practitioner or teacher and if it is no clearer or they say you will

understand one day, give them a miss because they don't know themselves.

With a good understsnding of Acupuncture anyone can give you a clear easy

understood explanation.

 

I hope I don't offend or upset anyone, but I also was fooled for years on

these points. I hope I have been able to help you a little. Cheers Murray.