Ayn Rand, Reincarnation, EC, Olga W. and the Bible references

[Guest guest]

, " aeambassador "

<aeambassador> wrote:

> Hey Loren, great post. If you can find it, would you mind posting

> Scripture reference to the past lives bit? I'm looking for it and I

> think I'm somehow reading past it. Thanks a bunch!

 

Actually look in the Edgar Cayce materials. They are all listed there,

many a time.

 

....also look in the Olga Worrall materials.

 

She listed them also.

 

She was a comtemporary of Edgar Cayce and they actually did readings

on each other.

 

 

> S'velikom ljubavom,

> Chedo

[Guest guest]

I will find time to hunt but it is the place where Jesus encounters a man

blind from birth and is asked if he is blind because of past deeds (karma?)

visiting him in this life. While great pains was taken to remove

reincarnation from the texts when Church Fathers realized if people could

come back why would they be obediant to Church orders now! But it was such

a widely accepted concept at least this casual reference slipped the

editors.

I will find it.

Loren

-

docspeed2001 <docspeed2001

 

Wednesday, May 04, 2005 11:13 PM

Ayn Rand, Reincarnation, EC, Olga

W. and the Bible references

 

 

> , " aeambassador "

> <aeambassador> wrote:

> > Hey Loren, great post. If you can find it, would you mind posting

> > Scripture reference to the past lives bit? I'm looking for it and I

> > think I'm somehow reading past it. Thanks a bunch!

>

> Actually look in the Edgar Cayce materials. They are all listed there,

> many a time.

>

> ..also look in the Olga Worrall materials.

>

> She listed them also.

>

> She was a comtemporary of Edgar Cayce and they actually did readings

> on each other.

>

>

> > S'velikom ljubavom,

> > Chedo

 

[Guest guest]

Of course that is an excellent reference for reincarnation in the Bible, however

the Fundamentalist Bible Thumper will tell you that the child was somehow

capable of sinning BEFORE being born--while still in the mother's womb, because,

according to them, we're all born sinners. I'm amazed those people can actually

stand to wake up in the morning, damned as they are...

 

Oh well... Not my problem anymore. :-)

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

Loren and Donna <iamone

May 5, 2005 10:42 AM

 

Re: Ayn Rand, Reincarnation, EC, Olga

W. and the Bible references

 

I will find time to hunt but it is the place where Jesus encounters a man

blind from birth and is asked if he is blind because of past deeds (karma?)

visiting him in this life. While great pains was taken to remove

reincarnation from the texts when Church Fathers realized if people could

come back why would they be obediant to Church orders now! But it was such

a widely accepted concept at least this casual reference slipped the

editors.

I will find it.

Loren

[Guest guest]

The concept is, of course, original sin. The idea that because Adam

screwed up, we're all doomed. Which is why God, after several

thousand years decided that He obviously needed to let us kill off a

part of Himself because no other sacrifice would do at all.

 

I'd always thought that's more what the disciples were referring to,

but it is sort of obvious now that I'm revisiting the passage. Can't

sin if you're not alive to do so, hey? But someone else can, and

you're screwed buddy!

 

" Damnit, Grandpa, I wish you hadn't gone off and screwed every woman

you could find! Now I've got the plague! "

 

 

Chad

Zivot je smijeshan.

 

" Original Sin, now there's a hellish idea. " Bless me, Father, for I

have sinned. I... poked a badger with a spoon! " " Never heard that

one before! Three Hail Maries and two Hello Dollies. " " Bless me,

Father, for I have sinned. I had sex with my neighbor's wife. "

" Heard it! " " Oh, I'm terribly sorry... "

 

Eddie Izzard " Dressed to Kill "

 

 

, " James R.

Knippenberg " <erommel@e...> wrote:

>

> Of course that is an excellent reference for reincarnation in the

Bible, however the Fundamentalist Bible Thumper will tell you that the

child was somehow capable of sinning BEFORE being born--while still in

the mother's womb, because, according to them, we're all born sinners.

I'm amazed those people can actually stand to wake up in the morning,

damned as they are...

>

> Oh well... Not my problem anymore. :-)

>

> Jim

>

>

>

>

> Loren and Donna <iamone@c...>

> May 5, 2005 10:42 AM

>

> Re: Ayn Rand,

Reincarnation, EC, Olga W. and the Bible references

>

> I will find time to hunt but it is the place where Jesus encounters

a man

> blind from birth and is asked if he is blind because of past deeds

(karma?)

> visiting him in this life. While great pains was taken to remove

> reincarnation from the texts when Church Fathers realized if people

could

> come back why would they be obediant to Church orders now! But it

was such

> a widely accepted concept at least this casual reference slipped the

> editors.

> I will find it.

> Loren

[Guest guest]

According to Dr Brian Weiss ( " Through Time into Healing " ):

 

" ... early references to reincarnation in the New Testament had been deleted

in the fourth century by Emperor Constantine... In the sixth century, the

Second Council of Constantinople underscored Constantine's act by officially

declaring reincarnation a heresy... As late as the twelfth century, the

Christian Cathars of Italy were severely brutalized for their belief in

reincarnation. "

 

Judy Hall writes ( " Past Life Therapy " ):

 

" Reincarnation was a basic precept in gnostic Christianity and appears in

many of the 'banned' books of the New Testament - at a Council some two

centuries after Christianity started, over 200 gospels were whittled down to

just four 'acceptable' volumes. Even in these, some references to

reincarnation remain (see Matthew 16:13-4, 17:9-13, 11:11-15, John 9:34,

Romans 9:10-13, Revelations 3:12). However, in 553 a Council of the Church

ratified the anathema of the Emperor Justinian against the Doctrine of

Origen concerning the pre-existence of the human soul and, by implication,

reincarnation. "

 

Blessings,

 

Paddy

[Guest guest]

, " Paddy Landau "

<coach@p...> wrote:

> According to Dr Brian Weiss ( " Through Time into Healing " ):

>

> " ... early references to reincarnation in the New Testament had been

deleted

> in the fourth century by Emperor Constantine...

 

He did much more than that.

 

His Christianity was not even close to what went before.

 

" Constantine was revealed as an opportunist who scoffed at God and

men. He had the insolence to pretend that God had placed in the

heavens a sign assuring him of vicotry. He bathed in the blood of all

his relatives and fell asleep in the lap of luxury... "

 

" Here is how he reasoned: 'Baptism purifies everything. I can

therefore kill my wife, my son, and all my relatives. After that I can

be baptized, and I shall go to Heaven.' And he acted accordingly... "

 

Here's a brief piece for Voltaire: " None of the early Fathers of the

Church cited a single passage from the four gospels as we accept them

today. They not only failed to quote from the gospels, but they even

adhered to several passages now found only in the apocryphal gospels

rejected by the canon. Since many false gospels were at first thought

to be true, those which today constitute the foundation of our own

faith may also have been forged " ...his reference was to the Council of

Nicea.

 

Interesting, no?

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " Paddy

Landau " <coach@p...> wrote:

> " Reincarnation was a basic precept in gnostic Christianity and

appears in

> many of the 'banned' books of the New Testament - at a Council

some two

> centuries after Christianity started, over 200 gospels were

whittled down to

> just four 'acceptable' volumes. Even in these, some references to

> reincarnation remain (see Matthew 16:13-4, 17:9-13, 11:11-15, John

9:34,

> Romans 9:10-13, Revelations 3:12). However, in 553 a Council of

the Church

> ratified the anathema of the Emperor Justinian against the

Doctrine of

> Origen concerning the pre-existence of the human soul and, by

implication,

> reincarnation. "

 

Actually the Emperor Justinian summoned the fifth ecumenical

congress of constantinolple in 553 A.D. to expunge the Platonically

inspired writings of Origen, an early Church father, who had upheld

reincarnation until his death three hundred years before.

 

Most people just don't think far enough to realize that

reincarnation is a living standard of morality directly affecting

human behavior, whether we consciously want it to or not.

 

And one of the most important thing is " attitude " ...

 

....this is important for the bodies energies, for the health, for

the financial...for the evolution and maturation of the person.

 

 

[Guest guest]

-

docspeed2001

> Interesting, no?

 

Interesting, yes. Surprising, no. As the Church is a powerful political

organisation and has tremendous power over many people, nothing comes as a

surprise.

 

> Most people just don't think far enough to realize that reincarnation is a

> living standard of morality directly affecting human behavior, whether we

> consciously want it to or not.

 

Thanks for that viewpoint. It's a lovely idea to take on. Since you

first mentioned reincarnation in reply (I think) to one of my posts, I have

explored it further - along with the so-called " synchronicity " that seems to

happen. Whether reincarnation is " true " or " false " , I've found it a useful

belief to carry.

 

It's funny that carrying helpful beliefs weigh less than not carrying them,

and carrying hurtful beliefs feel so heavy! (I know, lots of presuppositions

in that sentence.)

 

Blessings,

 

Paddy