If you head is up your kumdingee, then every thing is dark!

[Guest guest]

> ...or the David Feinstein materials...

-

I'm currently working with this, Doc..

I like the Energy stuff and much of the tapping, and I've tried it. But just

like the swish, I find it counterproductive to even bring the negative up in

b+w and found it very effective swishing TO and leaving the negs in the

trash.

 

> I am attempting to get a real smart fellow to pull his head out of

> his kumdingee so he can see better, see farther, and actually smell

> the roses.

That's why I find it counterproductive to " Dig in my out s***t by

stirring the past negative state. Roses smell better in the freh air with

no stench brought into the mix.

--

> The premise for energy psychology is based upon the EXACT SAME

> PRINCIPLES that you love in chi kung.

 

I'm going by subjective results.

One of QiGong's pre suppositions is as follows.

 

" No one is a supreme authority.

People seek leaders, priests, gurus, and hermits thinking that someone has a

precise formula

for living correctly.

 

No one does.

 

No one can know you as well as you can

know yourself.

 

All that you can gain from a wise person is

the assurance of some initial guidance.

 

There is no single way to do things in life.

There are valid paths.

 

Diversity is good for tradition. "

 

 

Tao.

rusty

[Guest guest]

Hi Rusty and Doc,

Am I not correct that the purpose of "bringing up the sh & *%t" is to sort of "dial in to the problem one wishes to remove? Like if you go to the dry cleaners, you cannot tell the proprietor which shirt you want unless you tell him which shirt you want. Get it? You cannot tell your subconscious mind which problem you want removed unless you tell it which problem you want removed!!

Gina"L.Win" <lwinmorgan wrote:

> ...or the David Feinstein materials...-I'm currently working with this, Doc..I like the Energy stuff and much of the tapping, and I've tried it. But justlike the swish, I find it counterproductive to even bring the negative up inb+w and found it very effective swishing TO and leaving the negs in thetrash.

[Guest guest]

> It's just that I, and ALL OF ENERGY PSYCHOLOGY, do NOT agree with

> him.

-

Hmm, but isn't NLP involved in this decision.

If so, did you not find in CALIBRATING FIRST that this " from " process does

not work for some and those of us in that camp may even find it

counterproductive?

rusty

-

" docspeed2001 " <docspeed2001

 

Tuesday, May 24, 2005 3:04 PM

If you head is up your kumdingee,

then every thing is dark!

 

 

> , Gina Haber

> <kneadles@s...> wrote:

> > Hi Rusty and Doc,

> > Am I not correct that the purpose of " bringing up the sh & *%t " is

> >to sort of " dial in to the problem one wishes to remove? Like if

> >you go to the dry cleaners, you cannot tell the proprietor which

> >shirt you want unless you tell him which shirt you want. Get it?

> >You cannot tell your subconscious mind which problem you want

> >removed unless you tell it which problem you want removed!!

> > Gina

>

> Yes, Gina,

>

> You are 100% correct.

>

> But, as rusty stated, " people have their own separate paths, and

> have the choice to which path they take " ...

>

> ...which is fine by me.

>

> My only reason for pointing out his post was because, on this group,

> Energy Psychology is A VERY VALID self-help tool, and if at all

> possible I'd like as many people possible to use it and to grow and

> mature from that use.

>

> So, MY POST was for THE GROUP MEMBERS more than it was for rusty,

> whom I also respect and admire.

>

> He does have much good stuff to offer.

>

> It's just that I, and ALL OF ENERGY PSYCHOLOGY, do NOT agree with

> him.

>

> That's the point I was " nicely " making.

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 08:49 PM 5/24/2005, you wrote:

> It's just that I, and ALL OF

ENERGY PSYCHOLOGY, do NOT agree with

> him.

-

Hmm, but isn't NLP involved in this decision.

If so, did you not find in CALIBRATING FIRST that this " from "

process does

not work for some and those of us in that camp may even find it

counterproductive?

rusty

Rusty,

That was the point of my post to you, NLP ISN'T involved in the decision.

 

Energy works on different principles than does Linguistics which NLP

deals with.

Two different sets of principles and presuppositions.

From a linguistically POV what you say has weight and it could be

counter productive. From an energy POV it doesn't and isn't. From an

energy POV one could PR the PR and take the counter productivity out of

it.

The idea that it matters could use some PR work. The idea that it doesn't

matter could also use some PR work.

From one POV the set-up phrase can be saying that... " even though I

have _________ (negative state) I'm still way more than this negative

state. " It is doing in one concise sentence what psychologist and

psychiatrist have been trying to tell people forever...You are more

than your feelings and behaviors, you are not your feelings and

behaviors, you are acceptable regardless of your behaviors.

What we fill in the blank with is not an affirmation but a recognition of

the energy glitch we are correcting.

It may be valuable to understand that if we DON'T have something to fill

in the blank there really is no reason to be doing an energy intervention

to correct a problem in the first place. It is quite difficult to solve a

problem if it hasn't been measured. How else will we know when it is

corrected?

That is why in Shallow PEAT even though we do fill in the blank with the

negative issue on the other end of the PR statement we also accept the

negative issue with all the rest we are loving and accepting. And when we

are going through the sequence of points we are not repeating a reminder

phrase of the negative issue we are focusing on the feeling-body

sensation that the negative issue created.

What we are changing is the feeling-body sensation which takes the power

out of the negative issue. Shallow PEAT also does not experience APEX

effect that sometimes is present with EFT. Shallow PEAT also deals with

aspects (parts and timeline) in the original protocol so there is very

little need to use it again on the same issue as can be the case with

EFT.

Utilize Everything,

Dr. Houston Vetter

Who was the first person to look at

a cow and say, " I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and

drink whatever comes out? " My Grampa

Vetter

[Guest guest]

.....and that is also why Donna "Energy Tests" even tho she can see the energy: the testing tells the correction where it needs to go and thereby actually starts the process moving.

 

Shari

One of the critical elements in EFT's effectiveness is that one must "tune in" to the problem. Otherwise, the energy balancing effect of the tapping for that problem will be of little use. It would be of limited value, for example, to try to alleviate a war memory with EFT while the client focuses on Disneyland, sex or the inner workings of a computer. The energy disruptions wouldn't be there and so the problem could not be addressed.Gary"__________ NOD32 1.1107 (20050524) Information __________This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[Guest guest]

, " L.Win "

<lwinmorgan@s...> wrote:

 

> What about the use of EM and NLP for healthy people to increase

>their function rather than restoring it.

 

What do you think I spend all day doing? LOL.

 

 

> The third eye tapping to anchor in a " High experience " would

better >fit the bill than EFT for this, don'tcha think?

 

Not if you are attempting to " increase their function " , as you

stated.

 

> That's one thing I give you credit for in that many of

your " drills " are so inclined, reaching out to healthy people as

well as the dysfunctional.

 

I get it.

 

You " think " that anyone that wants a path to better success is

dysfunctional?

 

It thought they were just looking for ways to rake in more gold

nuggets.

 

So, in my mind, we were just making damn sure the rake didn't have

any big holes in it that we were not aware of...

 

....and sometimes it's even better to use a shovel, or even a backhoe.

 

Interesting presuppositions rusty.

 

 

who only works with SUPER-HUMANS!

 

> Sung.

> rusty

[Guest guest]

Rusty,

Thank you for the compliment and the awareness that many of the drill's I

suggest are designed to work both ways on the spectrum of what you don't

want - what you do want.

EFT - Shallow PEAT and most Energy Psychology, Energy Medicines and

Energy Healing systems can be used to enhance a positive state and yet

they were primarily developed to deal with negatives or unwanted states,

what you don't want, etc... They were developed to deal with one half of

the yin/yang not the whole.

They are designed remedially. They can be used generatively but their

main focus is remedial. That is not bad, it is good for dealing with a

specific problem, what you don't want and to free up energy. They are one

level of emotional freedom

http://achieve-your-potential.com/emotional-freedom.html

..

EFT can be used generatively or to enhance one's present state but not the way it is used remedially.

I look for the simplest most effective ways to effect generative change. Thus some of my exercise seem so simple and yet profound in their effect (FOMF http://www.secretsuccess.com/mentalfitness.htm), some seem unexplainable in words and yet in the experience the words finally make sense. (I.e. Deep PEAT, etc.http://achieve-your-potential.com/solving-problems.html ) generative change has a tendency to make the change at the core of the issue.

There are EM exercises as you have pointed out (3rd eye tapping) and DHE or HPE exercises (next generation NLP) that are designed to create and anchor in " High experiences " . EFT is not the best for that.

And yet where this whole discussion started and where the " hold on a minute " thoughts and words were posted, was in someone's comment (when trying to fix a problem) that they preferred something other than the set-up phrase. And I suspect because in your map it is about expanding " high state " that you agreed, possibly forgetting or not understanding the purpose and intent of the set-up phrase in regards to specific problems.

The set-up phrase is not an affirmation, nor a statement of fact, it is not what is true in or for the mind, it is however a statement of what the energy system/physical body is perceiving as true in the moment. (It is not about truth for the mind or the body. It is not about perceived truth for the mind. It is about perceived truth for the body, where the energy system is felt.)

Utilize Everything,

Dr. Houston Vetter

" Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again. " My Grampa Vetter

 

At 05:29 AM 5/25/2005, Rusty wrote:

I think that the underlying presupposition [that glitch] is what I balked at.

There is that therapist's mind set pre supposing there is a " Problem " to be fixed.

I've noticed that the Energy Medicine and NLP community groups are heavy with therapists in the membership that use this approach but it's not the kind of 'change' that those who aren't seeking fixing but rather enhanchment of a positive state are seeking.

What about the use of EM and NLP for healthy people to increase their function rather than restoring it.

The third eye tapping to anchor in a " High experience " would better fit the bill than EFT for this, don'tcha think?

 

That's one thing I give you credit for in that many of your " drills " are so inclined, reaching out to healthy people as well as the dysfunctional.

[Guest guest]

>I look for the simplest most effective ways to effect generative change. Thus some of my exercise seem so simple and yet profound in their effect (FOMF http://www.secretsuccess.com/mentalfitness.htm), some seem unexplainable in words and yet in the experience the words finally make sense. (I.e. Deep PEAT, etc.http://achieve-your-potential.com/solving-problems.html ) generative change has a tendency to make the change at the core of the issue.

-

Houston:

This is a good balanced approach and I not only have no argument with it but I admire it.

There are two distinct approaches to change and there is a case for blending them as you and "Dr. La Tourrette"seem to have accomplished.

There is the Psychoanalysis/therapy approach of getting to the roots of the blocks and unravelling them one by one until clear. QiGong does this.

There is also the, "forget the negs, find the light and go for it", approach. This is the NLP/taiji approach that I follow. The idea is that in the full light there are NO SHADOWS, therefore to keep the supreme ultimate in focus al all times and devote all to that end, makes all unravelling and unblocking redundant.

Having said that, I have found that qiGong stretches prior to the taiji form sets me up for it by RELEASING unconscious clenching. So in fact I am using both approaches.

Thanks to you and Dr. La Tourrette for taking the time and effort to give some perspective of the "from' techniques.

rusty

[Guest guest]

I'm new here, so has anyone in this topic brought up the "Choices Method" of eft, where the setup involves a positive affirmation, AFTER stating the *problem? Like, even tho I feel sad today, I CHOOSE to feel serene and hopeful>

Or, even tho I can't fall asleep, I CHOOSE to become increasingly drowsy.

 

Does this help, Rusty?HABER ACUPUNCTUREGina Haber, L.Ac.,

[Guest guest]

, Gina Haber

<kneadles@s...> wrote:

 

> I'm new here, so has anyone in this topic brought up the " Choices

>Method " of eft, where the setup involves a positive affirmation,

>AFTER stating the *problem? Like, even tho I feel sad today, I

>CHOOSE to feel serene and hopeful>

> Or, even tho I can't fall asleep, I CHOOSE to become increasingly

>drowsy.

 

Actually Gina, I didn't...

 

....and no one else that knew that did either.

 

Now, since many of us know that and use that daily, why didn't we

WASTE OUR TIME explaining it to someone that didn't want to hear it?

 

....to someone that would NEVER USE IT...

 

....to someone that feels it is totally unnecessary?

 

In fact there is an entire SECTION of hundreds of posts on how-to-

augment PERFORMANCE which use those type of set-ups.

 

Very very powerful.

 

I wrote them out years ago, and have been using them with VERY

POWERFUL & PROACTIVE ATHLETES ever since.

 

They are BIG ENOUGH to know that " THEY CAN ALWAYS GET BETTER! "

 

Gina, I really appreciate you posting.

 

I love people that like to help and are knowledgable about what they

are posting.

 

Thanks for being a part of our group and participating.

 

 

ps. Does anyone know what a kumdingee is?

[Guest guest]

, " L.Win "

<lwinmorgan@s...> wrote:

 

> >Jim; thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread.

> > Remember Wendy? On Mindmastery-essentialskills..

 

> Yes I remember flaming " Spamming Wendy " well.

 

First, Wendy never did flame my list. She make a mistake, and she

did apologize for it.

 

Then it happened again, which was my fault and NOT her's.

 

> She had been kicked off pigzizzini's list

 

And, this was because pigzizzini had his head up his kumdingee

because Wendy was using a title " similar " to one of his titles, for

one of her new hypnosis products.

 

TITLES CANNOT BE COPYRIGHTED.

 

And the title had been used many many times before pigzinni

attempted to write his own very inferior product.

 

Wendy's product was a valid, ethical product.

 

And, pigzinni's product was also a valid ethical product.

 

> All in not always what it seems on the surface, and many of my

>posts are deliberatly provocative in order to elicit responses.

>Doc. knows this and looks forward to being given the opporunity to

>present his case on many topics and aspects.

 

An admirable trait, though one that I personally would never use,

right?