CODEX -- The latest assault on our freedoms of choice for health care

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/22/05 5:14:29 PM, marangneng writes:

 

 

www.friendsoffreedominternational.org

 

 

I am SURE that without supplements I would not have been able to bring my

deteriorated health back. I went to the site and did not find a place to easily

sign a letter for delivery to congresspeople. Maybe someone could try get a

letter onto The Petition Site at care2.com (if they don't already have one).

Rule one is make it EASY for people to take action!

Sue

 

 

 

www.coachdrgridley.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/23/05 9:53:07 AM, severian6 writes:

 

 

http://www.healthactioncenter.org/action/index.asp?step=2 & item=26659

 

 

I have done this and sent it to friends. I was in Europe when this was going down

(Scotland) and I surely don't want to see it happening here! Thanks for the link.

Sue

 

 

 

www.coachdrgridley.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue,

 

Below I've cut and pasted a link that will let you have a letter sent.

 

And looking at it, it IS a letter and not a fax or an e-mail.

 

Because neither of those have the " READ ME! " power of an actual

letter.

 

I'd recommend anyone who knows ANYTHING about supplements to become

familiar with this CODEX thing.

 

It's a dark thing.

 

And while it may not have an effect in the USA yet, someday we may

find ourselves like a frog in a pot of water, wondering why the water

is so hot, never really noticing the burner turned on full under the

pot.

 

Until it's far, far too late.

 

Here's the link:

 

http://www.healthactioncenter.org/action/index.asp?step=2 & item=26659

 

(You may have to cut and paste a section into your address bar to get

it to work.)

 

(Just DO it.)

 

All the best,

 

-Mark

 

,

coachdrgridley@a... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 6/22/05 5:14:29 PM, marangneng writes:

>

>

> > www.friendsoffreedominternational.org

> >

>

> I am SURE that without supplements I would not have been able to

bring my> deteriorated health back. I went to the site and did not

find a place to> easily> sign a letter for delivery to

congresspeople. Maybe someone could try get a>

> letter onto The Petition Site at care2.com (if they don't already

have one).

> Rule one is make it EASY for people to take action!

> Sue

>

>

>

> www.coachdrgridley.com

[Guest guest]

You folks are AWESOME! I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that

is getting a very sick feeling in their stomach about CODEX!

 

I know that someplace I've seen a link whereby you can email you

elected representatives. I'll hunt for it and post it here as soon as

I find it.

 

 

Love to all,

 

Ron Matthews

 

 

, " Mark Holt "

<severian6@h...> wrote:

> Hi Sue,

>

> Below I've cut and pasted a link that will let you have a letter

sent.

>

> And looking at it, it IS a letter and not a fax or an e-mail.

>

> Because neither of those have the " READ ME! " power of an actual

> letter.

>

> I'd recommend anyone who knows ANYTHING about supplements to become

> familiar with this CODEX thing.

>

> It's a dark thing.

>

> And while it may not have an effect in the USA yet, someday we may

> find ourselves like a frog in a pot of water, wondering why the

water

> is so hot, never really noticing the burner turned on full under

the

> pot.

>

> Until it's far, far too late.

>

> Here's the link:

>

> http://www.healthactioncenter.org/action/index.asp?step=2 & item=26659

>

> (You may have to cut and paste a section into your address bar to

get

> it to work.)

>

> (Just DO it.)

>

> All the best,

>

> -Mark

>

> ,

> coachdrgridley@a... wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 6/22/05 5:14:29 PM, marangneng writes:

> >

> >

> > > www.friendsoffreedominternational.org

> > >

> >

> > I am SURE that without supplements I would not have been able to

> bring my> deteriorated health back. I went to the site and did

not

> find a place to> easily> sign a letter for delivery to

> congresspeople. Maybe someone could try get a>

> > letter onto The Petition Site at care2.com (if they don't already

> have one).

> > Rule one is make it EASY for people to take action!

> > Sue

> >

> >

> >

> > www.coachdrgridley.com

[Guest guest]

Here's a snippett of what the Codex Alimentarius COULD mean to you.

 

From a Canadian source:

 

http://www.vitalitymagazine.com/node/view/310

 

By Helke Ferrie

 

LIFE IN CODEX COUNTRY

In the mid-1990s my mother, then in her 80s, had a stroke. She lived

in Germany. When she left hospital, I was ready with a nutritional

plan that included high-dose vitamins: C, E, and B — especially

Inositol, as well as Co-enzyme Q10. So I went to the local pharmacy,

whose owner was a family friend for some 25 years, and handed him my

list.

 

In return, he handed me a small packet with a price sticker of DM 200

(then about $200)(Canadian -Mark) containing vitamin E capsules

manufactured by one of Germany's largest pharmaceutical companies.

The source was synthetic, not the " mixed tocopherol " version from

living plant sources I wanted, which contains the whole E spectrum.

The package contained a total of 10,000 IU of E, the equivalent of a

mere 25 capsules of 400 IU each that we are used to buying. In

Canada, our bottles contain 90 capsules and cost about $20. If Codex

rules in Canada, we will likely pay $800 for a bottle of 90 capsules

of low-quality vitamin E — if Health Canada lets us buy that many at

once, and if you can find a doctor willing to prescribe it.

 

He then handed me a tube-shaped metal container with vitamin C

effervescent tablets. Each tablet, when dissolved in water would

release 10 mg of vitamin C in a refined sugar solution. Thus, this

ridiculously low amount was to be taken in a sugary medium that would

neutralize the vitamin without it doing anything at all. The cost:

about $10 for 12 tablets.

 

Then he asked me, " What's Co-enzyme Q10? Are you allowed to buy all

this in Canada in such dangerous dosages? " When I told him what I

take daily, his eyes popped. Then I asked, " Why can't I buy these

supplements here? " He replied, " Well, Germany is a Codex country. "

 

***************

 

Can you say Multi-National Corporate Intrests?

 

Big PHARMA at it's best?

 

Heh...

 

-Mark

[Guest guest]

I do want to give people the opportunity to get more information on

this issue. First of all, Codex is NOT a domestic standard, only

international. While any country CAN adopt Codex standards, It is NOT

mandatory. While I will not get into an argument about whether to

support or fight Codex, I will give a little more info directly from

the Council for Responsible Nutrition (CRN), which is a trade

association. CRN

member companies currently include 35 manufacturers of finished dietary

supplement products and 31 manufacturers and suppliers of bulk dietary

ingredients or other components of dietary supplements, as well as a

number of

associate members that provide services to the industry (as of 08/03).

 

I HIGHLY suggest reading the following, as well as researching for more

and other valid info before deciding one way or another.

 

 

Info on who CRN is can be found here: http://www.crnusa.org/who_about.html

 

The following can also be read in pdf format at: http://www.crnusa.org/pdfs/CodexMythsFacts022505.pdf

 

Myths and Facts on Codex and WTO

Prepared by John Hathcock, Ph.D. March 2005

The Codex Alimentarius is the United Nations -based food standard

setting organization recognized by the World

Trade Organization as the international authority for trade disputes on

food safety standards. As such, Codex

standards and guidelines could set limits for vitamins and minerals in

international trade but not for domestic

regulations in any country, unless that country decides to adopt Codex

documents as its domestic policy.

For several years the Codex nutrition had debated whether maximums for

vitamins and minerals in supplements

should be based on the Recommended Dietary Allowances or risk

assessment. CRN has strongly supported

the risk assessment approach. CRN recognizes that risk assessment could

be done incorrectly to give

unnecessarily restrictive limits, but points out that RDA-based limits

are by definition too restrictive.

At its November 2004 meeting, Codex Committee on Nutrition and Foods

for Special Dietary Uses (CCNFSDU)

promoted the “Vitamin and Mineral Supplement Guideline” to Step 8,

ready for Commission approval in July

2005. The guideline requires that limits be identified on the basis of

risk assessment, not RDAs. Since the

November 2004 meeting, the internet and emails have been flooded with

allegations that the World Trade

Organization (WTO) is going to “take away your vitamins.” The Council

for Responsible Nutrition (CRN) believes

that these claims are inaccurate and offers the following explanation

in a “Myth and Fact” format.

 

MYTH: Your right to choose your vitamin, mineral and other supplements

may end in June 2005.

 

FACT: The national representatives present at the Codex Alimentarius

Commission (CAC) meeting in

Rome, July 2005, are expected to approve the Vitamin and Mineral

Supplement Guideline, as promoted

to Step 8 in Bonn, Germany in November 2004. This guideline allows

maximum levels to be set, based

on scientific risk assessment.

 

MYTH: After June 2005, U.S. supplements will be defined and controlled

by the World Trade

Organization (WTO) and the World Health Organization (WHO).

 

FACT: This is not true. Codex guidelines will be recognized by the WTO

as an international trade

standard. The actual maximums will not be set by Codex until it gets

the report from FAO/WHO nutrient

risk assessment project--and that current project will only identify a

method, and test that method with a

very few examples. It will be years before the maximum levels are set.

When established, the maximum

levels will serve as a protection for exports by not allowing an

importing country to set a maximum below

the Codex limit. Codex and WTO do NOT set domestic standards for any

country unless that country

chooses to model its laws/regulations on the Codex document. (Some

small countries without the critical

mass of resources and scientists sometimes do utilize Codex documents

as the basis of their national

regulations, but they are not required to do so.)

 

MYTH: CODEX drastically restricts vitamins, minerals, herbs and other

supplements.

 

FACT: Germany, France, most other European countries, and indeed most

countries in the world

currently restrict vitamin and mineral supplements to low multiples of

the RDA, and have done so for a

long time. This is the reason these countries so strongly fought

against the Codex guideline requiring

maximums to be based on risk assessment.

Contact: John Hathcock, (202) 776-7955

VP, Scientific and International Affairs

031405

Myths and Facts on Codex and WTO continued

Notes from CRN on this point:

(1) Sure, risk assessment can be done badly, but when done

appropriately it gives good

answers. With it, you can get the right answer. With RDA-based limits

you automatically get the

wrong answer. Most of the world currently imposes RDA-based maximums.

(2) Hypothetically, a country could still restrict domestic production

to RDA-based maximums

even after Codex maximums based on risk assessment are implemented.

However, such a policy

would be damaging to the domestic industry because imports would have

to be permitted to the

Codex maximum, and foreign competition would kill the domestic industry.

(3) We must now guard against arbitrarily restrictive risk assessment

that amounts to nothing

more than a "back door" to RDA-based limits. But even under a

worst-case scenario, in most

countries such limits would be no worse that the current system of RDA

-based limits.

 

MYTH: CODEX now applies to Norway and Germany, among others.

 

FACT: Codex guidelines on supplements have not been approved. When

approved, implementation is

likely to take a couple of years or more. Norway and Germany, among

many others, have long had very

restrictive supplement regulations. Codex did not create this

situation, but should help liberalize it. The

price differential is great between "food" and "drug" supplements, in

countries such as these, but this is

not the work of Codex. WTO may be a useful forum to resist the

unilateral declaration by some countries,

such as Denmark, that supplements are drugs, not foods, and thus exempt

from Codex guidelines.

 

MYTH: No supplement can be sold for preventive or therapeutic use.

 

FACT: This falsely implies that such sale is currently permitted and

Codex will prohibit it. In fact, nearly

all countries in the world currently prohibit “therapeutic” claims for

supplements. Note that “preventive”

claims will be permitted by Codex under its “health claims” guideline,

which includes both NLEA- and

DSHEA-type claims. CRN is working to make sure that the science

standards are reasonable for these

claims.

 

MYTH: Any potency higher than RDA is a “drug” under Codex guidelines.

 

FACT: This is a great “shell game” being played by some internet

activists. The statement implies that

current limits are very generous and Codex seeks to restrict them. The

facts are the exact opposite.

Many countries currently impose RDA-based maximums, and they resisted

(for nearly 10 years!!!) the

international movement toward risk assessment-based limits. Risk

assessment is not a guarantee of

appropriate maximums but will allow them. On the other hand, RDA-based

limits are a guarantee of

inappropriate maximums, and this situation currently applies in most

countries.

 

MYTH: Codex regulations become binding internationally.

 

FACT: This is false by omission of material fact. Yes, Codex

regulations are recognized by the WTO as

the basis of international trade standards. But this Myth falsely

implies that Codex and WTO will impose

domestic regulations for all countries. No country is required to adopt

Codex guidelines as its domestic

regulations. WTO sanctions apply only when a country fails to allow

imports that meet Codex guidelines.

 

Gary

[Guest guest]

, Gary Graves

<ggraves@w...> wrote:

> I do want to give people the opportunity to get more information

on this

> issue. First of all, Codex is NOT a domestic standard, only

> international. While any country CAN adopt Codex standards, It is

NOT

> mandatory. While I will not get into an argument about whether to

> support or fight Codex, I will give a little more info directly

from the

> Council for Responsible Nutrition (CRN), which is a trade

association.

 

Okay.

 

According to whom?

 

A trade association for whom?

 

Who controls the products?

 

Who controls the dispensing of the product?

 

Who controls the pricing of the product?

 

And, is it fair to charge $200 bucks for something that costs 11

cents to make?

 

I'm totally against ANY REGULATORY AGENCY telling me anything, ever!

 

I dispise seat belts and the government agency that tells me " you

must wear one or pay a $97 fine " ...

 

I dispise motorcycle helmets, and I actually moved to a state that

didn't require them, then the fucking state changed their laws...

 

I'm now ready to move to Montana.

 

I hate the state of florida because they have passed legislation

against Chelation, and the state is lying about their claims, and

their reasons for their claims...

 

I dispise and want to visciously whomp on anyone that tells me what

to do, just because " they have a rule " , and then they have an

administrative body ENFORCE IT, ala, 1984 syndrome.

 

They mainly ignore any evidence to the contrary opinion, the opinion

that they have.

 

They control the courts. They control the law. They have the deeper

pockets...

 

They throw good people in jail because of those differences...Ruth

Drown...W. Reich...Gandhi...blab, blab, blab...

 

They ban therapies that work real well...Max Gerson...Benjamine

Suarez...radionics...blab, blab, blab...

 

I personally think that a .4x xxxxxxx xxxxx is too polite a response

to bullies of any type that interfere in our lives, in our health,

in our owns skills and abilites and the maturation thereof.

 

Maybe if a few of these pushy people are ...... .. ......, they'll

take their noses out of where they don't belong!

 

What do you think, group?

 

 

ps. Keep it clean please.

[Guest guest]

>

> What do you think, group?

 

 

Doc, you've captured it. My thought is that I added a few well

selected curse words on top of what you wrote about regulators....

 

Now since that CODEX post - We've been paying a bit more attention

here, like today watching TV we were remarking at the large number of

commercials, one right after another, from large drug companies

pushing their prescription drugs right into our living rooms.

 

....and why are they peddling it right along with the breakfast cereal

and anti-perspirant and Lean Cuisine TV dinner commercials?

 

....and why are they advertising to all of us when so very miniscule

few of us are MD's?

 

Are they trying to make it seem as if it's natural and EVERYBODY

should be on prescription drugs, and if you're not, you're just not

taking good care of yourself? So you'd better go ask your Dr. for

some right now.....the same MD's who told me I'd be on drugs the rest

of my life three years ago?...

 

....until I discovered " Qi " and learned how to use it along with a

healthy diet and a few very well-selected low cost supplements that I

no longer take.

 

This all struck a very big and very deep nerve in me.

 

Enough with this!

 

Now I've got a letter to send off!

 

Lori

 

 

 

healingenergies-

essentialskills , " docspeed2001 " <docspeed2001>

wrote:

> , Gary Graves

> <ggraves@w...> wrote:

> > I do want to give people the opportunity to get more information

> on this

> > issue. First of all, Codex is NOT a domestic standard, only

> > international. While any country CAN adopt Codex standards, It is

> NOT

> > mandatory. While I will not get into an argument about whether to

> > support or fight Codex, I will give a little more info directly

> from the

> > Council for Responsible Nutrition (CRN), which is a trade

> association.

>

> Okay.

>

> According to whom?

>

> A trade association for whom?

>

> Who controls the products?

>

> Who controls the dispensing of the product?

>

> Who controls the pricing of the product?

>

> And, is it fair to charge $200 bucks for something that costs 11

> cents to make?

>

> I'm totally against ANY REGULATORY AGENCY telling me anything, ever!

>

> I dispise seat belts and the government agency that tells me " you

> must wear one or pay a $97 fine " ...

>

> I dispise motorcycle helmets, and I actually moved to a state that

> didn't require them, then the fucking state changed their laws...

>

> I'm now ready to move to Montana.

>

> I hate the state of florida because they have passed legislation

> against Chelation, and the state is lying about their claims, and

> their reasons for their claims...

>

> I dispise and want to visciously whomp on anyone that tells me what

> to do, just because " they have a rule " , and then they have an

> administrative body ENFORCE IT, ala, 1984 syndrome.

>

> They mainly ignore any evidence to the contrary opinion, the

opinion

> that they have.

>

> They control the courts. They control the law. They have the deeper

> pockets...

>

> They throw good people in jail because of those differences...Ruth

> Drown...W. Reich...Gandhi...blab, blab, blab...

>

> They ban therapies that work real well...Max Gerson...Benjamine

> Suarez...radionics...blab, blab, blab...

>

> I personally think that a .4x xxxxxxx xxxxx is too polite a

response

> to bullies of any type that interfere in our lives, in our health,

> in our owns skills and abilites and the maturation thereof.

>

> Maybe if a few of these pushy people are ...... .. ......, they'll

> take their noses out of where they don't belong!

>

> What do you think, group?

>

>

> ps. Keep it clean please.

[Guest guest]

Have these people read true history... not revisionist BS?

 

Have any of these legislators read:

a) Harry Browne

b) George Orwell

c) Ayn Rand

....

 

Ask yourself, what benefit do THEY gain buy controlling supplements?

 

Follow the MONEY, Follow the POWER...What PACs contribute to their re-election campaigns? Why would you spend MILLIONS for a job that pays a few hundred thousand? Curious, is it not?

 

Governments not only like sheep, they like MEDICATED sheep that are DEPENDENT on THEM to "save them".

 

Just ramblings, or not...

 

Greg R.

 

 

 

On Behalf Of docspeed2001Thursday, June 23, 2005 8:23 PM Subject: Re: CODEX -- The latest assault on our freedoms of choice for health care

, Gary Graves <ggraves@w...> wrote:> I do want to give people the opportunity to get more information on this > issue. First of all, Codex is NOT a domestic standard, only > international. While any country CAN adopt Codex standards, It is NOT > mandatory. While I will not get into an argument about whether to > support or fight Codex, I will give a little more info directly from the > Council for Responsible Nutrition (CRN), which is a trade association. Okay.According to whom?A trade association for whom?Who controls the products?Who controls the dispensing of the product?Who controls the pricing of the product?And, is it fair to charge $200 bucks for something that costs 11 cents to make?I'm totally against ANY REGULATORY AGENCY telling me anything, ever!I dispise seat belts and the government agency that tells me "you must wear one or pay a $97 fine"...I dispise motorcycle helmets, and I actually moved to a state that didn't require them, then the fucking state changed their laws...I'm now ready to move to Montana.I hate the state of florida because they have passed legislation against Chelation, and the state is lying about their claims, and their reasons for their claims...I dispise and want to visciously whomp on anyone that tells me what to do, just because "they have a rule", and then they have an administrative body ENFORCE IT, ala, 1984 syndrome.They mainly ignore any evidence to the contrary opinion, the opinion that they have. They control the courts. They control the law. They have the deeper pockets...They throw good people in jail because of those differences...Ruth Drown...W. Reich...Gandhi...blab, blab, blab...They ban therapies that work real well...Max Gerson...Benjamine Suarez...radionics...blab, blab, blab...I personally think that a .4x xxxxxxx xxxxx is too polite a response to bullies of any type that interfere in our lives, in our health, in our owns skills and abilites and the maturation thereof.Maybe if a few of these pushy people are ...... .. ......, they'll take their noses out of where they don't belong!What do you think, group? ps. Keep it clean please.

[Guest guest]

The number of lobbyists in Washington (K street) has DOUBLED since 2000

- and the average rate/fee structure has grown 300%....

 

 

Helen

On Jun 23, 2005, at 8:21 PM, Greg Radke wrote:

 

> Have these people read true history... not revisionist BS?

>  

> Have any of these legislators read:

>     a) Harry Browne

>     b) George Orwell

>     c) Ayn Rand

>     ....

>  

> Ask yourself, what benefit do THEY gain buy controlling supplements?

>  

> Follow the MONEY, Follow the POWER...What PACs contribute to their

> re-election campaigns?  Why would you spend MILLIONS for a job that

> pays a few hundred thousand?  Curious, is it not?

>  

> Governments not only like sheep, they like MEDICATED sheep that are

> DEPENDENT on THEM to " save them " .

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/23/05 9:23:49 PM, docspeed2001 writes:

 

 

I hate the state of florida because they have passed legislation

against Chelation, and the state is lying about their claims, and

their reasons for their claims...

 

 

 

Man, I LIVE in FL and didn't know that. Have had chelation. Will check

to see if any are still doing it. That's the old fashioned IV way. I KNOW

you can still do the Nanobac (Nanobe) chelation since all components

are approved for use and it is not IV. Mostly suppository, so you can

do the treatments at home.

Doc, I can't believe you were so POLITE about these regulatory

police. I was almost killed by people trying to do the things they were

told were correct according to drug reps and Big Pharma. They were

even my friends. Telling them to take a hike and getting into alternative

med is what enabled me to be typing this now.

I'm with you. Who's watching the watchers?

Sue

 

 

 

 

www.coachdrgridley.com

[Guest guest]

Apparently safety and quality in products come from fines and jail

time for producers who don't comply with the 40,000,000 Commandments

of the regulatory state. I'd rather trust greedy competitors, and

stuffy private testing companies like Underwriters Labs, and ratfink

magazines like Consumer Reports...

 

I actually think we might be better off with a pre-1909 regime of no

regulation at all (and no illegal drugs!)

 

I noticed them joining the lynching bee for ephedra, too. The way I

heard that, pseudo-ephedrine killed some heavy users, so the

government banned the much safer natural product.

 

John Evans

 

, Mark Perkins

<mark@o...> wrote:

>

> (Hi group, I did go to the site that Mark mentions below, and at

first glance it seems like " regulation " is not going to happen, BUT

when you read what is actually being proposed, and REGULATED, you

KNOW that REGULATION is what they are after! Read carefully and

notice what you notice.)

>

[Guest guest]

, David Brandt

<david.brandt@g...> wrote:

> Think I'll mismatch on this one...

>

>

> Umm, Doc, how much does it cost to print up one of your special

> reports? Is it fair for you to charge for all the research you've

> done, when you're only giving people paper with writing on it? (I

> would say yes.)

 

David, there's nobody telling you that you must or must not buy one

of Doc's reports. You have the right to choose. How would you feel if

Doc was able to legislate the fact that you could explore your

internal capacities by using HIS reports and that all other venues

were invalid.

 

That's how I see what's happening with CODEX. Parmaceutical companies

are spending enormous resources to drive the EU and ultimately the

United States by-way-of the UN into regulating vitamins, herbs,

minerals and other nutritional supplements out of our reach. And why

are they doing that? Simple: so that they can maximize their profits

by keeping people sick so that they can pump more pharaceuticals down

our throats, into our veins and up our a$$!

 

>

> >

>

> That's funny, I love seat belts. I know (or, rather, knew) too many

> people who died in trivial car accidents, purely because they

weren't

> wearing their seat belts.

>

> It does piss me off when highway traffic is backed up for hours

> because what should have been a fender-bender or, at worst, a

totalled

> vehicle, turns into a fatal accident because some moron wasn't

wearing

> his seat belt. When people die, a lot more emergency vehicles show

> up, and slow everything down. If legislation gets more morons to

wear

> their seatbelts, and keeps my commute time down, I'm all for it!

 

So wear seatbelts! I use them too; religiously! But I do so because I

made the choice -- for myself!

 

> > I hate the state of florida because they have passed legislation

> > against Chelation,

> >

>

> Yeah, when I lived in the midwest, they had these annoying sirens

that

> would go off, really loud, every single time a tornado got close.

Some

> government bureaucrat in his fancy office is going to tell me to go

> hide in my basement until he says it's " safe " to come out? Yeah,

> right!

 

Again, they sound they siren and you get to choose to either run for

shelter or not. That's COMPLETELY different from Jeb Bush and his

band of fascists telling their constituents that they can't use

chelation therapy! The issue is the removal of the right to choose!

And they're banning chelation therapy because it has proven to be far

and away more effective at treating diseases like athrosclerosis than

any of the rat poison that big pharma is trying to foist on us.

Now the issue has come down to forcing THEIR choices on US in a way

that is clearly and demonstrably detrimental to our individual and

collective health just so they (Big Pharma and the congressmen and

senators they have bought) can maximize their profits!

 

>

> >

>

> I believe that anyone who wants badly enough to change the system,

> can. But most people would rather just whine and make excuses about

> how the system's stacked against them.

 

Alright, so put your money where your mouth is and pick up the phone

and call your elected officials and tell them how you feel.

Otherwise, go back to grazing with the rest of the sheep!

>

>

> --David Brandt

 

 

Ron Matthews

[Guest guest]

Doc,

I'm disappointed that you felt the need to comment at the top of my

post. I posted the way I did not to influence but to provide additional

data for each of us to make our decisions and plan of action. When the

person that some view as the patriarch of the group comments on a post

before it reaches the full community, it tends to influence an impartial

viewing of the information.

 

Shine!

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

Mark Perkins wrote:

 

>

> (Hi group, I did go to the site that Mark mentions below, and at first

> glance it seems like " regulation " is not going to happen, BUT when you

> read what is actually being proposed, and REGULATED, you KNOW that

> REGULATION is what they are after! Read carefully and notice what you

> notice.)

>

> All,

> Re: Codex.....some additional data some might find interesting.

>

> http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/vitamins.asp

>

> Shine!

>

> Mark Perkins

[Guest guest]

On 6/27/05, marangneng <marangneng wrote:

> ,

> David Brandt

> <david.brandt@g...> wrote:

> >

> > Yeah, when I lived in the midwest, they had these annoying sirens

> that

> > would go off, really loud, every single time a tornado got close.

> Some

> > government bureaucrat in his fancy office is going to tell me to go

> > hide in my basement until he says it's " safe " to come out? Yeah,

> > right!

>

> Again, they sound they siren and you get to choose to either run for

> shelter or not. That's COMPLETELY different from Jeb Bush and his

> band of fascists telling their constituents that they can't use

> chelation therapy! The issue is the removal of the right to choose!

>

 

I disagree. Both are the government notifying you of a potential

consequence of your actions. (The main difference being whether the

government is imposing the consequence on you.)

 

The state of Florida can't take away your ability to choose. (Plus,

I'm no legal scholar, but I've never heard of a " right to choose "

showing up in anybody's constitution.) Get your chelation in the grey

market (like botox), or get it somewhere else (like Georgia), or find

a substitute treatment. You just might run the risk of suffering

negative action by the state of Florida.

 

Just because the law requires you to wear a seatbelt, that doesn't

mean that you have to wear one. The choice is still yours.

 

>

> > I believe that anyone who wants badly enough to change the system,

> > can. But most people would rather just whine and make excuses about

> > how the system's stacked against them.

>

> Alright, so put your money where your mouth is and pick up the phone

> and call your elected officials and tell them how you feel.

> Otherwise, go back to grazing with the rest of the sheep!

>

 

Sorry, I guess I didn't make myself clear. I don't give a rat's ass

about this issue. Until Doc posted on this thread, I've basically

been ignoring it.

 

If this particular issue is really important to you, there's more you can do:

-> Accumulate large amounts of money and social influence;

-> Identify other people with influence, and demonstrate to them an

ability to fix their problems and meet their needs; and

-> Convince these influential people to scratch your back, to make the

world more to your liking.

 

If taking steps like that conflicts with your ethics, then maybe you

just don't want it bad enough.

 

 

--David Brandt

[Guest guest]

, Mark Perkins

<mark@o...> wrote:

> Doc,

> I'm disappointed that you felt the need to comment at the top of

my

> post. I posted the way I did not to influence but to provide

additional

> data for each of us to make our decisions and plan of action. When

the

> person that some view as the patriarch of the group comments on a

post

> before it reaches the full community, it tends to influence an

impartial viewing of the information.

> Shine!

> Mark

 

Well Mark,

 

That sounds like a personal problem.

 

Your post, that I do not agree with, was posted was it not?

 

And, even though " you " stated what the article said, it did NOT say

what you said it said, so I " informed " MY READERS of that fact,

hoping that they'd go and read the article very closely.

 

You did want them to read it closely did you not?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Doc....I understand now.

 

Shine!

 

Mark

 

 

 

docspeed2001 wrote:

 

> , Mark Perkins

> <mark@o...> wrote:

> > Doc,

> > I'm disappointed that you felt the need to comment at the top of

> my

> > post. I posted the way I did not to influence but to provide

> additional

> > data for each of us to make our decisions and plan of action. When

> the

> > person that some view as the patriarch of the group comments on a

> post

> > before it reaches the full community, it tends to influence an

> impartial viewing of the information.

> > Shine!

> > Mark

 

> Well Mark,

 

> That sounds like a personal problem.

 

> Your post, that I do not agree with, was posted was it not?

 

> And, even though " you " stated what the article said, it did NOT say

> what you said it said, so I " informed " MY READERS of that fact,

> hoping that they'd go and read the article very closely.

 

> You did want them to read it closely did you not?

 

>

[Guest guest]

, David Brandt

<david.brandt@g...> wrote:

> On 6/27/05, marangneng <marangneng> wrote:

> > ,

> > David Brandt

> > <david.brandt@g...> wrote:

> > >

> > band of fascists telling their constituents that they can't use

> > chelation therapy! The issue is the removal of the right to

choose!

> >

>

> I disagree. Both are the government notifying you of a potential

> consequence of your actions. (The main difference being whether

the

> government is imposing the consequence on you.)

 

Did armed agents of any arm of the government ever bust your door

down with MP5s drawn and haul you off to jail for not getting in

your shelter when the siren sounded? Well, that's happened on

numerous occasions to scientists developing nutritional supplements

that are completely harmless. Go to http://www.naturalcures.com/

and... Oh, sorry, I forgot; you don't give a rat's ass.

 

>

> The state of Florida can't take away your ability to choose.

(Plus,

> I'm no legal scholar, but I've never heard of a " right to choose "

> showing up in anybody's constitution.)

 

Really?!? Silly me! I thought you were an American. Well, we here in

the States have this document called the Constitution. It used to be

the basis of our government until it became inconvenient for the

lobbyists that have bought our elected officials. Anyway, the

opening part of the U.S. Constitution is called the Preamble and it

says,

 

" We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect

union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for

the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the

blessings of LIBERTY to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and

establish this Constitution for the United States of America. "

 

I capitalized the work liberty for your benefit, Jefferson, and to

draw your attention to it. I thought that it was odd that you

explained to me that no constitution assures our right to choose, so

I thought I'd look up that darn liberty word in the Merriam-Webster

Dictionary just because I thought that I knew what it meant, until I

read your explanation about rights to choose and all that. Here's

what it says. Pay particular attention to entry " e " below:

 

1 : the quality or state of being free: a : the power to do as one

pleases b : freedom from physical restraint c : freedom from

arbitrary or despotic control d : the positive enjoyment of various

social, political, or economic rights and privileges e : the power

of choice.

 

So, Aristotle, what country do you live in?

 

 

Get your chelation in the grey

> market (like botox), or get it somewhere else (like Georgia), or

find

> a substitute treatment. You just might run the risk of suffering

> negative action by the state of Florida.

>

> Just because the law requires you to wear a seatbelt, that doesn't

> mean that you have to wear one. The choice is still yours.

 

That's true, up until that choice is removed when and if one is

incarcerated for ingesting vitamin E or Saw Palmetto, or some other

dangerous " drug " . But you're right, we can make the choice.

 

> Sorry, I guess I didn't make myself clear. I don't give a rat's

ass

> about this issue. Until Doc posted on this thread, I've basically

> been ignoring it.

 

No surprised there. What DO you give a rat's ass about?

 

>

> If this particular issue is really important to you, there's more

you can do:

> -> Accumulate large amounts of money and social influence;

> -> Identify other people with influence, and demonstrate to them an

> ability to fix their problems and meet their needs; and

> -> Convince these influential people to scratch your back, to make

the

> world more to your liking.

>

> If taking steps like that conflicts with your ethics, then maybe

you

> just don't want it bad enough.

 

Why do you think I'm here?

 

No problem.

 

 

 

Ron

[Guest guest]

, Gary Graves

<ggraves@w...> wrote:

 

>Is that the website where the gov't doesn't want you to know

>K.T.'s 'secrets', and he can't tell you because 'they' won't let

>him and he wants you to 'pay' for a membership anyway? Should I

>become a member to see if what you say is correct, or do you

>have 'other' sources?

 

After talking to my doctor today during an appointment, I felt

compelled to post this. I didn't reply to Gary's original post

becasue I didn't have any first-hand knowledge of someone that had

been wrongfully imprisoned for publicly exposing the fraud that is

the AMA and Big Pharma. But now I do.

 

My doctor is a Naturopath. I've always seen Naturopathic physicians

and they have been able to heal all of my physical ailments except

one, and that is chronic heartburn. Recently I became aware of a

Naturopath near my home that specializes in gastro-intestinal

ailments.

 

This same doctor (whose name I'll withhold) was telling me about the

death threats that he had gotten in the past because of a radio show

he had where he educated people about natural healing and exposed

the fraud that is Big Pharm, the AMA and the FDA (Fraud and Death

Administration [my words]). I joked with him that he needed to get a

body guard and that I could fix him up becasue I have a lot of

friends that are former SOG operatives that are bored and easily

pissed off and enjoy cracking skulls for money.

 

When I said that, he got real serious and asked me if he could share

something with me and he hoped that it wouidn't diminish my opinion

of him. Here's his story:

 

About five years ago, after having been on the radio for a while, he

showed up at his office and before he could get out of his car he

was surrounded by men in BDUs, pointing MP5s at him and telling him

he was under arrest. He was handcuffed, shackled and left that way

in the parking lot for about an hour. He suspects that they left him

out like that so that his patients would see him as they showed up

for their appointments.

 

After about an hour he was put in the car and taken to a police

station where he was processed and sent to a medium security prison

here in Massachusetts. HE WAS NEVER CHARGED WITH A CRIME! It took

about six days before they let him make a phone call. He was held in

the general population for about three months and it was around this

time (he surmises) that whoever had instigated this fiasco figured

that they were going to have to charge him or let him go. So they

put him in solitary for thirty days. During this time his wife had

sent mail to him that had forms that gave her the authroity to turn

the running of his business over to her. He never saw the forms

until he had been in the hole for 30 days and the warden asked him

if he was ready to admit to the crime of running a business form

inside a prison. He said no and asked what business he was allegedly

running from inside prison. It was then that they shoed him the

forms that his wife had sent. Since he wasn't willing to admit to a

crime he hadn't committed, they threw him back in the hole for

another 30 days.

 

After his second 30 days, they came and got him and told him that he

was right, he hadn't been running a business from prison, but that

they couldn't release him to general population because there were

no beds available. So, another 30 days in the hole.

 

They finally released him to general population, but he still hadn't

been charged with a crime. In the meantime he's paying his lawyer

$400/hr to get him released. Then one day they came and told him

to " grab your shit, you're going home " . They said that they had made

an error and that he was free to go.

 

All told, he spent 25 months in prison without ever being charged.

His lawyer told him that he could sue, but this ordeal had left him

financially wiped out.

 

The next week he was back on the radio. This time he was even more

pointed in talking about the fraud behind the medical industry.

 

THIS GUY IS MY NEW HERO!! He told me that he suffers from insomnia

which he thinks is related to PTSD as a result of his ordeal. So I

taught him the EFT Basic Recipe and directed him to emofree.com.

 

So there you have it. (Or rather there I have it.) Someone that I

know personally that has been profoundly fucked with by the man.

 

 

Ron