Shame, Guilt & the KAHUNA MIND SECRETS!

[Guest guest]

--- <apperiyon@g...> wrote:

 

> Hi, Hmmm, although I don't disagree with what you are saying about

>what is necessary to do to forgive, I felt a bit misquoted.

 

Well, you SHOULD DISAGREE, if you think I was " saying what is

necessary to forgive " , BECAUSE I never even started on that portion,

yet.

 

You did miss the INTENTION of my entire post, which is fine by me.

It's your problem, NOT my problem.

 

And no matter what you think, the post was NOT an attack on you, nor

about you.

 

> That was my letter to xxxxxxx, and in it I was sharing my dark

>side to make the point that being human is ok; that we can have

>those feelings, and still forgive.

 

Actually " when " you keep those feelings and don't know you have

them, you CAN'T FORGIVE!

 

That was my point.

 

And, when you call feelings your " dark side " you are setting

yourself up for shame and guilt WITH YOUR OWN SELF-TALK.

 

The point was to notice those 8 different ways of

approaching " forgiveness " and see if they fit, and if they fit, then

we can go on to PART II.

 

If none of them fit, then NOTICE WHAT DOES FIT, then we can go on to

PART II.

 

>In other words, although I HAVE all the feelings (listed at the

>bottom of my letter), I do not allow them to stand as a refusal to

>forgive, .

 

OKAY.

 

Please take what I say without your ego getting in the way.

 

The following is NOT meant to harm, but to clarify some of the

incongruencies between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind.

 

It is NOT a personal ATTACK on you, nor on anyone else...

 

....and I'M SURE some will " think " it is.

 

Yes, you do " allow them to get in the way of forgiving " .

 

You are simply saying, " I forgive you " while you still keep those

feelings.

 

That is NOT forgiveness.

 

That is being PATRONIZING!

 

That is being PRIDEFUL!

 

That is taking the stand that " YOU ARE BETTER THEN THEY ARE! "

 

It is NOT any form of FORGIVENESS!

 

> I move past them and work on the forgiveness process anyway. You

>seem to have skipped over that part,

 

Get over it!

 

You can either learn to forgive, or you can continue to ATTEMPT TO

DEFEND what you said.

 

And, this post WAS NOT about you.

 

It was FOR THE GROUP and you just happened to be the goat I worked

with.

 

> I don't think you sync with me when you " speak " so I wind up

>feeling either puzzled or " put off.

 

And my job is NOT to be in " sync " with you, nor do I care to be

in " sync " .

 

And, it was NOT a " put off " no matter what you believe it was or was

not.

 

I really do suggest you READ THAT PART I again, and just " pretend "

that there is some REAL VALUABLE information in it, and notice what

you might notice.

 

> Another bit: It is important to understand what the subconscious

>offers the conscious (in terms of emotions) whenever it brings up a

>concept. For example, when I face forgiveness, I get a variety of

>feelings from my lower self, and one of the most predominant is

>shame. That connection is very important because it tells me that

>until I resolve my lower self's emotional issues around the core

>problem, I can't let go of the hurt or resentment,

 

Notice that you are using 2 of the 8 things I mentioned that DOES

STOP " FORGIVENESS " cold in it's tracks!

 

And, you are hallucinating if you think that is what " shame " means,

and if you think " letting go of anything " is going to help.

 

Here, this might help, or not.

 

Shame is normally defined as " the secret emotion " when you are

suffering from social disapproval. Because you've trangressed

cultural values.

 

Remember that poor fellow that kept coming up with morals? Well, he

was really addressing something totally different, he was addressing

cultural values and cultural evils.

 

There are two types of shame. There is the " useful " shame, a type of

shame that gets a person to change their behavior.

 

Then there is the non-useful type of toxic shame that is a comment

on your being.

 

And if you are in touch with your own criteria, then toxic shame

cannot happen!

 

But behavioral shame can happen, and can be fixed in a couple of

minutes using submodalities.

 

You also mentioned " guilt " .

 

Guilt is different from the 2 above " shames " .

 

Guilt is caused by the group teaching certain values to it's members

so thoroughly that the person feels guilt when they transgress their

own values. It's NOT really their values, but values they BELIEVE

are true because they've been brainwashed into believing them.

 

The culture's values are internalized and become a part of their

subconscious minds.

 

Guilt is ALWAYS INSTALLED!

 

Many churches, governments and societies install certain guilts ON

PURPOSE as a primary method of social control.

 

There are 3 primary methods of social control.

 

I'm finished for now.

 

 

Shame, Guilt and The Kahuna Mind Secrets

[Guest guest]

-

> There are 3 primary methods of social control.

 

I'm struggling on this point.

 

1. Guilt. Obviously. Especially useful when worked on normal, natural states

such as sexual feelings.

 

2. Shame, expressed as disapproval (or stronger) with ostracism or the

threat of ostracism. Inclusion acts as the reward for conformity.

 

3. Force or the threat of force. The government usually has a monopoly on

force, including the police, army, navy, etc. But perhaps you didn't mean

this, because the modern Church can't use it.

 

What am I missing?

 

Paddy

[Guest guest]

> What am I missing?

>

> Paddy

>

 

I'd say Lust (using the Sedona method larger meaning).

 

Yesterday I was listening to Bill Harris' talks in the Centerpointe

2001 retreat. Someone asked him how powerful it would be to gather

all the participants who have completed the 12-step programme. He

said " very, but they would probably not care! "

 

Or David Hawkins says in the Nightingale-Conant " The Highest Level

of Enlightenement " that frankly he needs nothing. Awaits his

transition.

 

Triggering lust (even lust for enlightenement, heavenly pleasures,

meeting Jesus, whatever) is extremely powerful as it is entwined

with the 2 previous methods you mentionned " guilt and shame " .

therefore whereas you think Lust is pushing you forward(and it

should) society manages to keep you locked in circles, adding a

twinge of shame for wanting your neighbour's wife, a bit of guilt to

prevent you from acting.

 

Pierre

[Guest guest]

>What am I missing?Paddy

-

Seduction.

These are only sticks and not carrots.

Remember the fable of the Sun vs. the Wind and the man with the coat.

The greatest social conrollers in the world are on Madison Avenue.

Yin always defeats Yang.

Always.

 

rusty

 

 

-

Paddy Landau

Thursday, December 08, 2005 1:40 AM

Re: Shame, Guilt & the KAHUNA MIND SECRETS!

-> There are 3 primary methods of social control.I'm struggling on this point.1. Guilt. Obviously. Especially useful when worked on normal, natural statessuch as sexual feelings.2. Shame, expressed as disapproval (or stronger) with ostracism or thethreat of ostracism. Inclusion acts as the reward for conformity.3. Force or the threat of force. The government usually has a monopoly onforce, including the police, army, navy, etc. But perhaps you didn't meanthis, because the modern Church can't use it.What am I missing?Paddy

[Guest guest]

healingenergies-

essentialskills , " kahunamaker " <kahunamaker>

wrote:

>

> --- <apperiyon@g...> wrote:

>

> > That was my letter to xxxxxxx, and in it I was sharing my dark

> >side to make the point that being human is ok; that we can have

> >those feelings, and still forgive.

>

> Actually " when " you keep those feelings and don't know you have

> them, you CAN'T FORGIVE!

 

This is so true! I used to think the same thing about forgiving

people, that you just say to yourself " I forgive so and so and it's

done "

It's NOT! In fact I found it has a lot to do with how you behaved in

the situation.

For instance, I worked for a guy who was a real asshole. Liked to

abuse people, physically and mentally. My coworker said in front of

his kids that he was an asshole (he was berrating her at the time),

so he grabbed her throught slammed her against the wall then lifted

her off the ground by her throat. Basically her was strangling her.

 

I was watching and had no clue what to do. Until yesterday I had

never forgiven MYSELF for not knowing what to do.

Even though I thought I needed to forgive him for being an asshole,

it really was about how I acted.

Very powerful!

kali

> That was my point.

>

> And, when you call feelings your " dark side " you are setting

> yourself up for shame and guilt WITH YOUR OWN SELF-TALK.

>

> The point was to notice those 8 different ways of

> approaching " forgiveness " and see if they fit, and if they fit,

then

> we can go on to PART II.

>

> If none of them fit, then NOTICE WHAT DOES FIT, then we can go on

to

> PART II.

>

> >In other words, although I HAVE all the feelings (listed at the

> >bottom of my letter), I do not allow them to stand as a refusal

to

> >forgive, .

>

> OKAY.

>

> Please take what I say without your ego getting in the way.

>

> The following is NOT meant to harm, but to clarify some of the

> incongruencies between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind.

>

> It is NOT a personal ATTACK on you, nor on anyone else...

>

> ...and I'M SURE some will " think " it is.

>

> Yes, you do " allow them to get in the way of forgiving " .

>

> You are simply saying, " I forgive you " while you still keep those

> feelings.

>

> That is NOT forgiveness.

>

> That is being PATRONIZING!

>

> That is being PRIDEFUL!

>

> That is taking the stand that " YOU ARE BETTER THEN THEY ARE! "

>

> It is NOT any form of FORGIVENESS!

>

> > I move past them and work on the forgiveness process anyway. You

> >seem to have skipped over that part,

>

> Get over it!

>

> You can either learn to forgive, or you can continue to ATTEMPT TO

> DEFEND what you said.

>

> And, this post WAS NOT about you.

>

> It was FOR THE GROUP and you just happened to be the goat I worked

> with.

>

> > I don't think you sync with me when you " speak " so I wind up

> >feeling either puzzled or " put off.

>

> And my job is NOT to be in " sync " with you, nor do I care to be

> in " sync " .

>

> And, it was NOT a " put off " no matter what you believe it was or

was

> not.

>

> I really do suggest you READ THAT PART I again, and just " pretend "

> that there is some REAL VALUABLE information in it, and notice

what

> you might notice.

>

> > Another bit: It is important to understand what the

subconscious

> >offers the conscious (in terms of emotions) whenever it brings up

a

> >concept. For example, when I face forgiveness, I get a variety of

> >feelings from my lower self, and one of the most predominant is

> >shame. That connection is very important because it tells me that

> >until I resolve my lower self's emotional issues around the core

> >problem, I can't let go of the hurt or resentment,

>

> Notice that you are using 2 of the 8 things I mentioned that DOES

> STOP " FORGIVENESS " cold in it's tracks!

>

> And, you are hallucinating if you think that is what " shame "

means,

> and if you think " letting go of anything " is going to help.

>

> Here, this might help, or not.

>

> Shame is normally defined as " the secret emotion " when you are

> suffering from social disapproval. Because you've trangressed

> cultural values.

>

> Remember that poor fellow that kept coming up with morals? Well,

he

> was really addressing something totally different, he was

addressing

> cultural values and cultural evils.

>

> There are two types of shame. There is the " useful " shame, a type

of

> shame that gets a person to change their behavior.

>

> Then there is the non-useful type of toxic shame that is a comment

> on your being.

>

> And if you are in touch with your own criteria, then toxic shame

> cannot happen!

>

> But behavioral shame can happen, and can be fixed in a couple of

> minutes using submodalities.

>

> You also mentioned " guilt " .

>

> Guilt is different from the 2 above " shames " .

>

> Guilt is caused by the group teaching certain values to it's

members

> so thoroughly that the person feels guilt when they transgress

their

> own values. It's NOT really their values, but values they BELIEVE

> are true because they've been brainwashed into believing them.

>

> The culture's values are internalized and become a part of their

> subconscious minds.

>

> Guilt is ALWAYS INSTALLED!

>

> Many churches, governments and societies install certain guilts ON

> PURPOSE as a primary method of social control.

>

> There are 3 primary methods of social control.

>

> I'm finished for now.

>

>

> Shame, Guilt and The Kahuna Mind Secrets

>