Guest guest Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008 Hi Hugo, Feel free to use my story, of course a link to gancao.net would be nice too. I agree that " taking great risks to drive this point home " is a really touchy issue. There is a thin line between scaring a patient into more treatments or purchases and scaring the patient into taking a more proactive interest in the state of their future health. I have heard of practitioners who come up with some disturbing sounding pathology which doesn't really stand up to peer-review or a " second opinion " . It becomes clear then that some practitioners are scaring their patients into more treatments. But had I known that the next time I'd see this guy, he'd be in a wheel chair, it would not have been a problem at all to describe the worst case scenario for him to encourage lifestyle changes and herbal medicine compliance. The only difference between these two scenarios is that in the first case, the goal of the additional treatments is designed to benefit the practitioner's bottom line, while the goal of the second scenario is that it benefits the health of the patient. In the cases above, it comes down to selfish intent versus selfless intent. If this patient had come in for more treatments and stuck with the herbs, it would have benefited the patient first and the practitioner second. In the first case, it only benefits the practitioner's bottom line. We have a new member on this list, who sent in a brief note about why they wanted to . He or she said: I AM INTERESTED IN ALTERNATIVES TO THE GENERAL DRS OUT THERE WHO ARE MORE ABOUT MONEY THAN HELPING THEIR PATIENTS (sic). The fact is, there are within the alternative medicine community the same human frailties as there are found in conventional medicine. These are not unique to the style of medicine, but part of being human. Medical and business ethics are taught in both Eastern and Western medicine. Whether or not the practitioner honors those ethics is up to them. -al. On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 6:49 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > Hi Al! How's it going? Hope all is well. > I wanted to ask you if I could use the story below with full attribution > to you? Newsletter type thing, or website. > Personally, I take great risks to drive this point home. I feel that many > times the small injury or disharmony is a pretext for the larger issue to > come to light, and I take it as my responsibility to connect with the > patient such that we can see the real reason for the visit and look at the > possibilities and become preventative in our outlook. I've made one of my > clinical goals to get people out of the perceptive box that small things are > " just " this or that, and instead to see small things for what they are: > seeds. > Anyway, thanks for sharing this one. > Hugo > > > > How does TCM handle strokes? > > > > Herbs to thin the blood and remove stasis, or resolve phlegm. Body and > scalp > acupuncture to stimulate awakening of nerves and brain functions. > > Are there any treatments that are > > recognized as helpful? > > > > Absolutely! There are hospital wings devoted solely to the TCM treatment of > strokes in Korea. These are integrated treatments, probably include blood > thinning drugs, for instance. But stroke treatments are very well developed > in Asia. > > I suppose TCM would probably deal with the > > causes long before a stroke ever occurred, wouldn't it? > > > > Yes, probably. Though it takes years and years before one has the > opportunity to test that theory. > > In 1998, I saw a guy for " tennis elbow " . However, in the interest of > treating the whole-person, I also prescribed him an herb formula... he > seemed a little impatient with me for asking so many questions about his > poop and such when it was tendinitis in his elbow that was the problem. > > The formula I wrote for him was based on Long Dan Xie Gan Tang. This is for > Liver Yang rising, a common (TCM) cause for strokes. I eventually backed > off > the herb thing at his urging and focused on his elbow which got better in a > short time and he left a happy camper... > > I saw him again about six years later. He was in a wheel chair having had a > stroke. I wrote him another herb formula without looking at my own records > on his case. I was seeing him in a different clinic, so I didn't have > access > to my own notes on his case. > > But check this out, When I had the time, I went back through my own patient > records and located the formula that I'd written for him way back when... > about 85% of the herbs were identical, still based on Long Dan Xie Gan > Tang. > > It was clear that I was barking up the right tree six years prior. I don't > know for sure that if he had taken that formula for a longer time that he > wouldn't have had the stroke, but it certainly makes you go " hmmm " . > > -al. > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2008 Report Share Posted May 9, 2008  Hey Al, thanks for the permission, the link will be included.  Thanks for your considered response. Very useful. Good point about scaring people and locking them down. I don't find I've ever had to scare someone or lock them down. I just need their attention and alertness - in other words, get them unscared and unlocked.  I have various " solutions " to cope with the problem, the most direct of which is free treatment to any patient whom I take off their treatment goals and place onto mine (this includes free or next-to-free medications + a guarantee of /trackable/ improved health or we terminate treatment). I feel that this is a very good deal, and when we throw the negotiations into the matter to ensure that the patient is clear on my motives, interests and goals (which really involves only their /awareness/ of worse-case projections of their " vector " , rather than a long arduous course of treatment), things work out well.  I aim to provide an uncompromising dose of , all principles intact, combined with complete freedom on the part of the patient to make the informed choice. My fundamental job is to ensure the patient understands the map /I/ have, and that it is one map among many. What they do with it, once they have it and can read it, is up to them.  Thoughts?  Again, your story is deeply impactful...and may have scared some - it scared me.  Hugo Al Stone <al Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, 9 May, 2008 10:39:48 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Stroke Hi Hugo, Feel free to use my story, of course a link to gancao.net would be nice too. I agree that " taking great risks to drive this point home " is a really touchy issue. There is a thin line between scaring a patient into more treatments or purchases and scaring the patient into taking a more proactive interest in the state of their future health. I have heard of practitioners who come up with some disturbing sounding pathology which doesn't really stand up to peer-review or a " second opinion " . It becomes clear then that some practitioners are scaring their patients into more treatments. But had I known that the next time I'd see this guy, he'd be in a wheel chair, it would not have been a problem at all to describe the worst case scenario for him to encourage lifestyle changes and herbal medicine compliance. The only difference between these two scenarios is that in the first case, the goal of the additional treatments is designed to benefit the practitioner' s bottom line, while the goal of the second scenario is that it benefits the health of the patient. In the cases above, it comes down to selfish intent versus selfless intent. If this patient had come in for more treatments and stuck with the herbs, it would have benefited the patient first and the practitioner second. In the first case, it only benefits the practitioner' s bottom line. We have a new member on this list, who sent in a brief note about why they wanted to . He or she said: I AM INTERESTED IN ALTERNATIVES TO THE GENERAL DRS OUT THERE WHO ARE MORE ABOUT MONEY THAN HELPING THEIR PATIENTS (sic). The fact is, there are within the alternative medicine community the same human frailties as there are found in conventional medicine. These are not unique to the style of medicine, but part of being human. Medical and business ethics are taught in both Eastern and Western medicine. Whether or not the practitioner honors those ethics is up to them. -al. On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 6:49 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor > wrote: > Hi Al! How's it going? Hope all is well. > I wanted to ask you if I could use the story below with full attribution > to you? Newsletter type thing, or website. > Personally, I take great risks to drive this point home. I feel that many > times the small injury or disharmony is a pretext for the larger issue to > come to light, and I take it as my responsibility to connect with the > patient such that we can see the real reason for the visit and look at the > possibilities and become preventative in our outlook. I've made one of my > clinical goals to get people out of the perceptive box that small things are > " just " this or that, and instead to see small things for what they are: > seeds. > Anyway, thanks for sharing this one. > Hugo > > > > How does TCM handle strokes? > > > > Herbs to thin the blood and remove stasis, or resolve phlegm. Body and > scalp > acupuncture to stimulate awakening of nerves and brain functions. > > Are there any treatments that are > > recognized as helpful? > > > > Absolutely! There are hospital wings devoted solely to the TCM treatment of > strokes in Korea. These are integrated treatments, probably include blood > thinning drugs, for instance. But stroke treatments are very well developed > in Asia. > > I suppose TCM would probably deal with the > > causes long before a stroke ever occurred, wouldn't it? > > > > Yes, probably. Though it takes years and years before one has the > opportunity to test that theory. > > In 1998, I saw a guy for " tennis elbow " . However, in the interest of > treating the whole-person, I also prescribed him an herb formula... he > seemed a little impatient with me for asking so many questions about his > poop and such when it was tendinitis in his elbow that was the problem. > > The formula I wrote for him was based on Long Dan Xie Gan Tang. This is for > Liver Yang rising, a common (TCM) cause for strokes. I eventually backed > off > the herb thing at his urging and focused on his elbow which got better in a > short time and he left a happy camper... > > I saw him again about six years later. He was in a wheel chair having had a > stroke. I wrote him another herb formula without looking at my own records > on his case. I was seeing him in a different clinic, so I didn't have > access > to my own notes on his case. > > But check this out, When I had the time, I went back through my own patient > records and located the formula that I'd written for him way back when... > about 85% of the herbs were identical, still based on Long Dan Xie Gan > Tang. > > It was clear that I was barking up the right tree six years prior. I don't > know for sure that if he had taken that formula for a longer time that he > wouldn't have had the stroke, but it certainly makes you go " hmmm " . > > -al. > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 17th Hole and one of our foursome cried out, " My left arm is Numb. " He was under meds for HBP and also carried Nitro Glycerine so he took a whiff. Nothing. He took another. Nothing. We got him in the cart and scooted to the parking lot and called an ambulance. I was out of my league on this one so I just yanked his shoes off and worked th K-1 points in both feet. He lost a bit of movement in his left face and some weakness in the left side but they all recovered in a couple of hours at EM. The Doctor attributed it to the Nitro. What else could I have done? rusty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Bite on the sides of the little finger – which balances heart/small intestine meridian. Press on the point below the nose/above the upper lip which gets central and governing connected and will send energy to anywhere/everywhere needed in the body. And while awaiting the ambulance, work the neurovasculars all over the head, and especially for TW (at the temple) and spleen (above the ear) Judith On Behalf Of Rusty Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:01 AM Stroke 17th Hole and one of our foursome cried out, " My left arm is Numb. " He was under meds for HBP and also carried Nitro Glycerine so he took a whiff. Nothing. He took another. Nothing. We got him in the cart and scooted to the parking lot and called an ambulance. I was out of my league on this one so I just yanked his shoes off and worked th K-1 points in both feet. He lost a bit of movement in his left face and some weakness in the left side but they all recovered in a couple of hours at EM. The Doctor attributed it to the Nitro. What else could I have done? rusty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Good stuff, Judith, but it begs one question: How would you calibrate whether the TW is hyperactive and in fact may have contributed to the stroke, or hypo active and needs to be energized to save a possibly dying body? I wondered about that when I stimulated the K-1 points. Rusty - Judith Poole Wednesday, October 08, 2008 4:35 PM RE: Stroke Bite on the sides of the little finger – which balances heart/small intestine meridian. Press on the point below the nose/above the upper lip which gets central and governing connected and will send energy to anywhere/everywhere needed in the body. And while awaiting the ambulance, work the neurovasculars all over the head, and especially for TW (at the temple) and spleen (above the ear) Judith On Behalf Of RustyWednesday, October 08, 2008 6:01 AM Subject: Stroke 17th Hole and one of our foursome cried out, "My left arm is Numb."He was under meds for HBP and also carried Nitro Glycerine so he took a whiff.Nothing.He took another.Nothing.We got him in the cart and scooted to the parking lot and called an ambulance.I was out of my league on this one so I just yanked his shoes off and worked th K-1 points in both feet.He lost a bit of movement in his left face and some weakness in the left side but they all recovered in a couple of hours at EM.The Doctor attributed it to the Nitro.What else could I have done?rusty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 This is from the Energy medicine bankhttp://energymed.org/hbank/handouts/emergency_guide.htm II. STROKE SYMPTOMS: Sudden numbness or weakness of the arm, leg, or face, especially on one side of the body Sudden confusion, trouble understanding or speaking Sudden trouble walking, loss of balance or coordination, or dizziness Sudden trouble seeing in one or both eyes Sudden severe headache with no known cause A TEST the General Public Can Use to Assess Whether a Person Has Had a Stroke (from a paper presented at the American Stroke Association's annual meeting): The symptoms of a stroke can be difficult to recognize, and this can spell disaster. The stroke victim may suffer brain damage when people nearby fail to recognize the symptoms of a stroke. Now doctors say any bystander can recognize a stroke by asking three simple questions: Ask the person to smile Ask the person to raise both arms Ask the person to speak a simple sentence If the person has trouble with any of these tasks, call 911 immediately and describe the symptoms to the dispatcher. WHAT TO DO FOR SUSPECTED STROKE UNTIL THE PARAMEDICS ARRIVE: Medical Necessities: If the person has stopped breathing, administer CPR, including chest compressions if there is no pulse. This is the top priority. Common Sense: Make the person as comfortable as possible. ENERGY METHODS to help restore neurological balance: Do a hook-up (one hand in navel, one hand on third eye, push in and pull up). Push the middle finger of one hand into the person¢s "power point" (indent at center base of skull where skull meets the neck) and with the other hand hold the K-27s firmly for at least a minute. Hold the "electrical points" at the base of skull just above the neck (on either side of the power point) for at least a minute. Do a crown pull. Do a frontal/occipital hold (one hand across the forehead area at the hairline, the other at the back of the head where the skull joins the neck) until you feel a pulse in the forehead. The top part of the hand on the forehead activates the liver neurovascular points (liver meridian feeds the heart) at the hairline and the bottom (across the eyebrows) activates the bladder neurovascular points (bladder meridian governs the nervous system). Hold spleen neurovascular points (one inch above ear on either side of head) for one to two minutes. Hold the triple warmer strengthening points (TW3 & GB41, then TW2 & BL66) if the person appears to be leaving the body. Talk to the person and ask the person to stay with you. If you have help available, have another person pulse the K1 points on the bottom of the feet. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION: www.americanheart.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Neurovasculars help balance the meridian (whether it is over- or under-charged) so no need to know that info and good tool to use in an emergency situation when you might not have time or ability to energy test. Neurolymphatics also help balance the meridian whether over- or under-charged. Many blessings,Michelle Good stuff, Judith, but it begs one question: How would you calibrate whether the TW is hyperactive and in fact may have contributed to the stroke, or hypo active and needs to be energized to save a possibly dying body? I wondered about that when I stimulated the K-1 points. Rusty - Bite on the sides of the little finger – which balances heart/small intestine meridian. Press on the point below the nose/above the upper lip which gets central and governing connected and will send energy to anywhere/everywhere needed in the body. And while awaiting the ambulance, work the neurovasculars all over the head, and especially for TW (at the temple) and spleen (above the ear) Judith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Thanks, Michelle. I couldn’t have said it any better. Spleen and TW energies KNOW what they need and how to balance with each other, as do Central and Governing. Just stimulating them gives them the boost they need to do their thing. To me one of the key things in EM work is to remember that the BODY is way smarter than WE are. It doesn’t need us to FIX it. It just needs our SUPPORT. Judith On Behalf Of lunarmm Thursday, October 09, 2008 6:56 PM RE: Stroke Neurovasculars help balance the meridian (whether it is over- or under-charged) so no need to know that info and good tool to use in an emergency situation when you might not have time or ability to energy test. Neurolymphatics also help balance the meridian whether over- or under-charged. Many blessings, Michelle Good stuff, Judith, but it begs one question: How would you calibrate whether the TW is hyperactive and in fact may have contributed to the stroke, or hypo active and needs to be energized to save a possibly dying body? I wondered about that when I stimulated the K-1 points. Rusty ----- Original Message ----- Bite on the sides of the little finger – which balances heart/small intestine meridian. Press on the point below the nose/above the upper lip which gets central and governing connected and will send energy to anywhere/everywhere needed in the body. And while awaiting the ambulance, work the neurovasculars all over the head, and especially for TW (at the temple) and spleen (above the ear) Judith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Hi All, My sister's boyfriend (father of my 2 nieces) has recently been diagnosed with having a large tumor (probably cancer) on his thyroid gland. He is currently undergoing radiation treatments, but it's not going well. Now, even though he not the nicest person in the world (long story), I want to offer them any help I can. I've been an informal student of energy medicine for a few years now, but would not presume to give advice. I'd like to ask for any specific tips from the group on what they can do, energy techniques, or otherwise. I'm also giving them phone numbers of energy medicine practitioners in the Denver, Colorado area. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank You, Dan Gould Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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