Religion

[Guest guest]

Dean...and everyone,

 

Though the finer points how important " belief " is in to particular

religions could be debated, here is not the place for it.

 

I think there is a place for discussion

of this specific point here. In fact,

I see this as a critical point here.

 

Faith, in the Christian sense...at least

as I understand it and I am not a Christian...

requires that there be no proof of that

in which one has faith. If there were

a proof of the existence of God, God

would not be worthy of faith.

 

This is another habit of mind that I

believe influences Western study and

adaptation of Chinese medicine. I believe

that a significant number of people

have faith in the fundamental tenets

of Chinese medicine such as yin1 yang2,

qi4, etc. without adequate understanding

of the " proof " of what these things

really mean and how they function.

I believe that it is the Christian

mode of " faith " that allows people

to get over the considerable gaps

in understanding of these basic concepts

that exist in the materials that are

available for study in the English

language.

 

Whether or not we hang the label

" religion " on Chinese medicine, we

can and should discuss whether or not

people study and practice it using a

mode of thinking that has been cultivated

for religious use.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

This thread seems to be confusing the various definitions

of " religion. " At the same time it is a system of beliefs concerning

the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine

involvement in the universe (Judaism can be considered a religion by

this definition), religion is also defined by the dictionary to be a

more generalize system of personal beliefs. Although it may have

features in common with religion because of its shamanistic roots,

CM isn't necessarily a religion. The involvement with an unique

anthropomorphized divine being does not control it. Even Daoism, on

which it is sometimes considered to be based, should be thought of

as the early naturalistic philosophy of Laozi---the term " Dao " is

left intentionally ambiguous and the role of the observer is

considered critical (Dao De Jing, chapter 1).

 

CM is a system of thought that attempts to be a philosophical

movement dedicated to describing the behaviors and structures of

human existence as they present themselves to consciousness, without

recourse to theory, deduction, or assumptions from other disciplines

such as the sciences---a kind of phenomenology.

 

In the twentieth century, our sense of certainty was forfieted by

quantum mechanics and the central role of the observer reinstated.

Laozi originally said it and Heisenberg independently verified it.

Religion is the last emotional appeal we have to certainty. We can't

help but bring who and what we are to these discussions but there is

no platonic or religious ideal waiting to be discovered.

 

I think the key is to continue discussions so that our tacit

assumptions can be uncovered and brought to light and reconsidered.

Even though we will not come to a universal and mutually satisfying

conclusion, these discussions can be seen as what they really are---

an evolving dynamic system of thought much like the Chinese (and

other Asians) may have gone through themselves.

 

Jim Ramholz

 

 

 

 

 

James Ramholz, O.M.D.

1st Avenue Chiropractic Center

100 Monroe

Denver, CO 80206

(303) 522-3348

 

 

, yulong@m... wrote:

> Dean...and everyone,

>

> Though the finer points how important " belief " is in to

particular

> religions could be debated, here is not the place for it.

>

> I think there is a place for discussion

> of this specific point here. In fact,

> I see this as a critical point here.

>

> Faith, in the Christian sense...at least

> as I understand it and I am not a Christian...

> requires that there be no proof of that

> in which one has faith. If there were

> a proof of the existence of God, God

> would not be worthy of faith.

>

> This is another habit of mind that I

> believe influences Western study and

> adaptation of Chinese medicine. I believe

> that a significant number of people

> have faith in the fundamental tenets

> of Chinese medicine such as yin1 yang2,

> qi4, etc. without adequate understanding

> of the " proof " of what these things

> really mean and how they function.

> I believe that it is the Christian

> mode of " faith " that allows people

> to get over the considerable gaps

> in understanding of these basic concepts

> that exist in the materials that are

> available for study in the English

> language.

>

> Whether or not we hang the label

> " religion " on Chinese medicine, we

> can and should discuss whether or not

> people study and practice it using a

> mode of thinking that has been cultivated

> for religious use.

>

> Ken

[Guest guest]

Hello Michelle

Perhaps the lack of response was an indication!!!!

Religion and politics stir up BIG emotions in people.

Surely, does it matter which religion, if any, people follow ??

I think perhaps your question was to help you find your way forward. I

had the same feeling a few years ago.

I did a yoga teaching course and every time 'God' was mentioned I shrivelled

up inside hoping that as a teacher I wasn't going to have to spout 'God stuff'

!!!!!

Now I realise (well, maybe!!!) that it was something that I needed to sort

out- why it rang alarm bells in me!

The more I begin to feel that 'religions' may be control factors - I feel

more spiritual than ever, really attached to the spiritual divine, knowing that

there is one there.

That is as far as I have got in my quest!!!!! I feel really comfortable and

am not searching any more.

 

Love, Light & Laughter ~ Diane xx

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your reply Tanya,

I know excatly what you mean by you know what you know,

it' there in your heart and in your head.

Thanks, I need all the help I can get trying to express myself

and find out how I should be doing things

Love & Light

Marjory

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi, there is no connection between religion and crystals though different

religions have been using crystals in their religious practice. Crystals are

live stones and they respond to you and work on your subconcious mind

irrrespective of religion practised by you.

 

Michelle <blond_ontheinsyd wrote:Hi! I'm Michelle, and I joined this

workshop last week. I had asked

questions about how crystals affect religion, since I am Christian,

but I only recieved one reply. So, what I am asking now, is what

religion do you all practice? I am trying to figure out who I am,

and what I believe in, and that is the reason I am trying to learn

about many things. I don't want to make any desicions without being

well educated on the possibilities first. If you could help me, I

would appreciate it so much. Thanks!

 

-Michelle

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello All,

 

My two cents on the spirituality / religious aspect of crystals:

 

As a Naturopath I must explain to clients, most of whom are left-brain

dominant and don't want to hear the " hocus-pocus " spiritual aspect of healing,

the science of energy fields and crystal / vibrational healing.

 

If you look at crystal medicine from a strictly scientific point there is much

to discuss. It's all about creating gentle electro-magnetic fields and feeding

the energy body. Humans are electric!

 

The meridian system is proven to exist which then feeds the nervous system.

You don't hear much about this for obvious reasons but the Chakras and Meridian

System are scientifically proven. I suggest looking at Dr. Richard Gerber's

" Vibrational Medicine " book for more info as well as " Electric Universe " by

David Bodaris.

 

Crystals are semi-conductors...

 

As far as the spiritual aspect to each his own. There is much to be said about

healing intent and the power of prayer. To say that crystals are the devil's

work, well, is rather ignorant. You would then have to say that quartz watches,

radios, televisions, lasers, computer chips, solar panels, etc., are the devil's

work, too. These modern-day tools are all crystal-based and work by way of

magnetism / polarity / radio waves.

 

Some folks, (Dalai Lama for one) believe that science and spirituality are the

same. One doesn't negate but explains the other. I see this for myself as I

study Crystals and work with Vibrational Healing.

 

Hope you find this helpful. If you have any more questions, please feel free

to contact me.

 

Cheers,

Angela Welch

Naturopath

Sunnyvale Wellness

 

 

 

Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!

Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Games.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Fantastic email, Angela! Thank you for this!

 

I feel I have to look into the scientific side of crystal healing to try and

support my spiritual feelings. I need to form a balanced opinion. I cannot

simply accept what I'm told - or even how I feel! - I must dig and find out

whatever details I can to try to explain further. In some ways this is

frustrating and can hold me back, but in other ways it stops me getting

carried away. It's a case of finding my place between these poles.

 

I would never call something hocus-pocus, even if I didn't believe in it,

because each individual needs their own beliefs to help them on their path.

It wouldn't be right for me to ridicule someone else's beliefs.

 

I will definitely look into the references you have given for the scientific

approach to crystal healing. Many thanks for these.

 

I think there is a lot that science cannot yet cover - regarding the power

of intent, for one. This is something I'm very interested in, but for me

it's nothing to do with religion.

 

I found your comments on Dalai Lama interesting too. This is something that

appeals to me, because I don't get on with the extremes (in my opinion):

hard science, or being completely committed to a religion. Do you have any

examples of this way of thinking - so that I can further my understanding?

 

Thanks again

Katy x

 

On 01/10/2007, A Welch <kittyspike1969 wrote:

>

> Hello All,

>

> My two cents on the spirituality / religious aspect of crystals:

>

> As a Naturopath I must explain to clients, most of whom are left-brain

> dominant and don't want to hear the " hocus-pocus " spiritual aspect of

> healing, the science of energy fields and crystal / vibrational healing.

>

> If you look at crystal medicine from a strictly scientific point there is

> much to discuss. It's all about creating gentle electro-magnetic fields and

> feeding the energy body. Humans are electric!

>

> The meridian system is proven to exist which then feeds the nervous

> system. You don't hear much about this for obvious reasons but the Chakras

> and Meridian System are scientifically proven. I suggest looking at Dr.

> Richard Gerber's " Vibrational Medicine " book for more info as well as

> " Electric Universe " by David Bodaris.

>

> Crystals are semi-conductors...

>

> As far as the spiritual aspect to each his own. There is much to be said

> about healing intent and the power of prayer. To say that crystals are the

> devil's work, well, is rather ignorant. You would then have to say that

> quartz watches, radios, televisions, lasers, computer chips, solar panels,

> etc., are the devil's work, too. These modern-day tools are all

> crystal-based and work by way of magnetism / polarity / radio waves.

>

> Some folks, (Dalai Lama for one) believe that science and spirituality are

> the same. One doesn't negate but explains the other. I see this for myself

> as I study Crystals and work with Vibrational Healing.

>

> Hope you find this helpful. If you have any more questions, please feel

> free to contact me.

>

> Cheers,

> Angela Welch

> Naturopath

> Sunnyvale Wellness

>

> .

>

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you.

I think unless you work with tools such as crystals,you work on a higher

vibration any way.

I love the way you put it straight to the point.

Well done.Many Blessings spiritguide732000

 

----

 

A Welch

2/10/2007 1:20:48 AM

 

[CrystalHW] Re: Religion

 

Hello All,

 

My two cents on the spirituality / religious aspect of crystals:

 

As a Naturopath I must explain to clients, most of whom are left-brain

dominant and don't want to hear the " hocus-pocus " spiritual aspect of

healing, the science of energy fields and crystal / vibrational healing.

 

If you look at crystal medicine from a strictly scientific point there is

much to discuss. It's all about creating gentle electro-magnetic fields and

feeding the energy body. Humans are electric!

 

The meridian system is proven to exist which then feeds the nervous system.

You don't hear much about this for obvious reasons but the Chakras and

Meridian System are scientifically proven. I suggest looking at Dr. Richard

Gerber's " Vibrational Medicine " book for more info as well as " Electric

Universe " by David Bodaris.

 

Crystals are semi-conductors...

 

As far as the spiritual aspect to each his own. There is much to be said

about healing intent and the power of prayer. To say that crystals are the

devil's work, well, is rather ignorant. You would then have to say that

quartz watches, radios, televisions, lasers, computer chips, solar panels,

etc., are the devil's work, too. These modern-day tools are all

crystal-based and work by way of magnetism / polarity / radio waves.

 

Some folks, (Dalai Lama for one) believe that science and spirituality are

the same. One doesn't negate but explains the other. I see this for myself

as I study Crystals and work with Vibrational Healing.

 

Hope you find this helpful. If you have any more questions, please feel free

to contact me.

 

Cheers,

Angela Welch

Naturopath

Sunnyvale Wellness

 

 

Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!

Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at

Games.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello Angela

Wow I have had a few that way too it is interesting how they think too. I

had one when I worked reflexology on them that they wouldn't talk they

wanted me to find the spots and tell them what I was working and so on. he

had a lot of wows and so on. it is the same with crystals.

 

Have you even run into a left brain thinker with overly strong spiritual

beliefs, so much so that they couldn't grasp even the scientific data or

logic of the therapy, and being essentially in conflict. I have some, one in

peticular and it all becomes gloom and doom scenarios for him.

 

I have found for some I try and explain to them about working with the

bodies electrical field, the studies, and so on and I have found some people

so stuck on the stigma that some unscrupulous healers/people have caused to

be placed on the different therapy. My mother had one once that truly

believed she was a evil witch, all to the muscles she was working and how

tense they were and the observations she made to the woman.

 

ok enough of my two sense or is that scents no wait cents lol I could use

some more cents $.

he he he

blessing all

--

Have a Happy and Keep Smiling

TTFN

Angelina Thelin

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Angelina,

 

I'm a firm believer that science needs to catch up to spirituality

and that they are one in the same. Our society wants a " scientific

explanation " for everything but science isn't advanced enough to give

us the big picture.

 

Heck, Yogis thousands of years ago just " knew " by way of meditation

what we're discovering now.

 

Take Care.

 

Cheers,

Angela

, " Angelina Thelin "

<Angelina.Thelin wrote:

>

> Hello Angela

> Wow I have had a few that way too it is interesting how they think

too. I

> had one when I worked reflexology on them that they wouldn't talk

they

> wanted me to find the spots and tell them what I was working and so

on. he

> had a lot of wows and so on. it is the same with crystals.

>

> Have you even run into a left brain thinker with overly strong

spiritual

> beliefs, so much so that they couldn't grasp even the scientific

data or

> logic of the therapy, and being essentially in conflict. I have

some, one in

> peticular and it all becomes gloom and doom scenarios for him.

>

> I have found for some I try and explain to them about working with

the

> bodies electrical field, the studies, and so on and I have found

some people

> so stuck on the stigma that some unscrupulous healers/people have

caused to

> be placed on the different therapy. My mother had one once that

truly

> believed she was a evil witch, all to the muscles she was working

and how

> tense they were and the observations she made to the woman.

>

> ok enough of my two sense or is that scents no wait cents lol I

could use

> some more cents $.

> he he he

> blessing all

> --

> Have a Happy and Keep Smiling

> TTFN

> Angelina Thelin

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Angela

This is so true

Wasn't it Inventor Thomas Alva Edison who started " The doctor of the future

will give no medicine, but will interest her or his patients in the care of

the human frame, in a proper diet, and in the cause and prevention of

disease.

 

oops what happened there and the original Hippocratic oath has been

seriously changed from its original statement of the Dr. will do no harm . I

have researched that one it is scary. Hello folks were not your guinea pigs,

and we don't like being played with.

It feels like instead of researching the causes they are stuck playing

with ways to create and stall instead of finding causes and helping to stop

the problem. It feels like they have too much fun playing and getting money.

I Find it funny that money gets pulled from people who are researching ways

to end problems and why they start and gathering facts as to how to stop

things. instead of coverup's let the info out, so we can all learn. well As

for me and mine we will follow the advice of Mr Edison. as well as doing

our own research.

 

So many advances have been made and hidden in the name of money it is sad.

Hello I thought we were trying to know the truth not cover things up. lol

 

I almost think we need to step back and find out from history and work with

the cures and healing practices that help and find out how to make them

better not create new cures ones from poisons that cause more damage and

quit making laws that allow us to be used as guinea pigs. Poor Poor Science

is stuck in the past in a bad loop hole and they just keep playing Pete and

Repeat not seeing that it is not all cut and dried.

___________________________

hope my thoughts help

Have a happy and Keep Smiling

Angelina

 

<Hi Angelina,

>

> I'm a firm believer that science needs to catch up to spirituality

> and that they are one in the same. Our society wants a " scientific

> explanation " for everything but science isn't advanced enough to give

> us the big picture.

>

> Heck, Yogis thousands of years ago just " knew " by way of meditation

> what we're discovering now.

>

> Take Care.

>

> Cheers,

> <Angela

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with your thoughts on pharmaceutical medicine versus

complementary/alternative medicine. I would love to step back in time and

look at what all those witch doctors were doing and learn from them.

Although we kind of are doing that already ;o) But it would be so

interesting to just pop into that time and see it for myself.

All best,

Katy

 

 

On 05/10/2007, Angelina Thelin <Angelina.Thelin wrote:

>

> Angela

> This is so true

> Wasn't it Inventor Thomas Alva Edison who started " The doctor of the

> future

> will give no medicine, but will interest her or his patients in the care

> of

> the human frame, in a proper diet, and in the cause and prevention of

> disease.

>

> oops what happened there and the original Hippocratic oath has been

> seriously changed from its original statement of the Dr. will do no harm .

> I

> have researched that one it is scary. Hello folks were not your guinea

> pigs,

> and we don't like being played with.

> .

>

>

>