Guest guest Posted July 26, 2001 Report Share Posted July 26, 2001 --- Bob Flaws wrote: <<In other words, a little irritation is good for the skin. It is only too much that is a problem. Dry brushing, salt-rubbing, the tui na maneuver called ca fa (chafing technique), anything which is exfoliating, even scratching an itch are all irritating to the skin. This is how they work. They are supposed to be irritating. The question is only one of degree, not kind, as to whether this is negatively irritating or beneficially stimulating. Mark Seem makes this same point about acupuncture. Everybody wants painless acupuncture. But the question is, does painless acupuncture get the same clinical results? Anyone care to comment on any of this? Bob >> If by " the same " results you mean " as effective " , then I would say yes, absolutely, and all of the clinicians whose pictures I've posted on my website (Shudo Denmei, Yanagishita Toshio, et al) would agree, I'm sure. They all emphasize painless technique as a prerequisite for proper supplementation. Irritation has it's uses, certainly. This is one of the principles behind chokusetsukyuu (direct moxibustion) and a number of other techniques. The question perhaps is the degree of (controlled) damage being done to the tissues and the specificity with which it's applied -- nociception per se may or may not be necessary. Manaka's X-signal hypothesis was, I believe, an attempt to postulate a physiological pathway for the effects of non-irritating stimuli. Apparently Manaka was not shy about using strong stimuli when necessary (PRC-style needling, venisection, etc), so different methods will have different effects. In that sense, the answer to your question would be " no, it does not get the same results " , however clinically painless needling may be just as (or more) effective for the patient. Personally, I generally try for painless needling but I'm not shy about zinging the patient with the moxa if need be. My $.02. Sorry about the off-topic-ness, Todd. ===== Robert Hayden, L.Ac. http://jabinet.net Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger http://phonecard./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2001 Report Share Posted July 26, 2001 Mark Seem makes this same point about acupuncture >>>>Seems use of the strain-counter strain vocabulary of osteopathy is totally wrong. Strain counter strain is an indirect technique, that is putting the tissue in a totally relaxed (not strained) position in order to relax it. It is not straining it more Alon - r hayden Thursday, July 26, 2001 7:08 AM Re: Digest Number 658 --- Bob Flaws wrote:<<In other words, a little irritation is good for theskin. It is only too much that is a problem. Dry brushing,salt-rubbing, the tui na maneuver called ca fa (chafing technique), anythingwhich is exfoliating, even scratching an itch are allirritating to the skin. This is how they work. They are supposed to beirritating. The question is only one of degree, not kind, as towhether this is negatively irritating or beneficially stimulating.Mark Seem makes this same point about acupuncture.Everybody wants painless acupuncture. But the question is, doespainless acupuncture get the same clinical results? Anyone care to commenton any of this?Bob >>If by "the same" results you mean "as effective", thenI would say yes, absolutely, and all of the clinicianswhose pictures I've posted on my website (ShudoDenmei, Yanagishita Toshio, et al) would agree, I'msure. They all emphasize painless technique as aprerequisite for proper supplementation. Irritation has it's uses, certainly. This is one ofthe principles behind chokusetsukyuu (directmoxibustion) and a number of other techniques. Thequestion perhaps is the degree of (controlled) damagebeing done to the tissues and the specificity withwhich it's applied -- nociception per se may or maynot be necessary. Manaka's X-signal hypothesis was, I believe, anattempt to postulate a physiological pathway for theeffects of non-irritating stimuli. Apparently Manakawas not shy about using strong stimuli when necessary(PRC-style needling, venisection, etc), so differentmethods will have different effects. In that sense,the answer to your question would be "no, it does notget the same results", however clinically painlessneedling may be just as (or more) effective for thepatient. Personally, I generally try for painless needling butI'm not shy about zinging the patient with the moxa ifneed be.My $.02. Sorry about the off-topic-ness, Todd.=====Robert Hayden, L.Ac.http://jabinet.netDo You ?Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messengerhttp://phonecard./Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2001 Report Share Posted July 26, 2001 Hello, I'm in the (neverending) process of developing a examination of the application of (predominantly Chinese) herbs for chakra imbalances. While this has been mainly MSU, I'm sure there are some good sources out there, that, hopefully, people can inform me of. Any ideas? I know the Yoga of Herbs has some very tiny bits of information (e.g. Lian Zi opens Anahata, the heart chakra), but I'm looking for something more substantial. Ayurvedic or otherwise. Thanks! ============================== Peter L. Borten, L.Ac. 4004 SW Kelly Avenue, Ste 201 Portland, Oregon 97201 503.522.2613 http://www.whiteflowerhealing.com/ ============================== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 , " Peter Borten " <innergate@e...> wrote: > Hello, > I'm in the (neverending) process of developing a examination of the > application of (predominantly Chinese) herbs for chakra imbalances. While > this has been mainly MSU, I'm sure there are some good sources out there, > that, hopefully, people can inform me of. Any ideas? I know the Yoga of > Herbs has some very tiny bits of information (e.g. Lian Zi opens Anahata, > the heart chakra), but I'm looking for something more substantial. > Ayurvedic or otherwise. > Thanks! > > I think Robert Svoboda of the Ayurvedic Institute writes that chakras cannot be directly affected with herbs, only with meditations and rituals (including certain types of bodywork and pyschotherapy). to the extent that herbs can be used to " open " chakras, it is to the extent they facilitate these activities. Certain mind altering herbs may indeed dramatically affect this process, perhaps including mild sedatives like lotus. The lotus may also have attributions that are more based on its devotional symbolism in hindu theology than its actual observed effects. Many descriptions of other tonic herbs in the shen nong ben cao seem to imply certain effects towards one's spiritual development according to Unschuld in Hx of Pharmaceutics. Many of these herbs also alter consciousness in various subtle ways, promoting sleep, hormonal balance, etc. Are such herbs used to facilitate spiritual practice or are their effects inherent? I've heard people say that MDMA opens the heart chakra, but does it really do this without some sustained practice? Most people who do MDMA all night do not seem to have " open heart chakras " the day after. Can an herb do this, either. Or is it the gentle effects of the herb that somehow promote the gradual opening of chakras? I think these are topic worthy of exploration. The ayurvedic descriptions of herbs used in chinese medicine may lead to insights in the use of such herbs for problems of consciousness and psychospiritual development that are perhaps not well adressed in TCM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 In a message dated 06/30/2003 2:59:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, writes: > Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:30:56 -0500 > " Beth Wolff " <angelcat > Re: Digest Number 657 > > This is lovely Mercedes-thank you for posting it! > > Blessings and Light, > Beth > > Oh Beth you are most welcome. I had been a member of the group and the recruiter of new members until the fibromyalgia took over. There are over 600+ members all over the world and offer a variety of different methods of healing. Mercedes Mercedes Rose Herndon Reiki Master/Teacher, Artist, Photographer Designer & Creator of Silk Healing Scarves Owner of " Just for You " Custom Cards Coauthor & Publisher of: " Loving Thoughts for Gentle Hearts; v. 1 - Goals, Dreams & Affirmations " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 Thanks for the absent healing network info, Mercedes, I too have fibromyalgia so take care with what can be a very frustrating, up-and-down problem. Maureen. ---- 30 June 2003 15:27:37 Re: [CrystalHW] Digest Number 658 In a message dated 06/30/2003 2:59:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, writes: > Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:30:56 -0500 > " Beth Wolff " <angelcat > Re: Digest Number 657 > > This is lovely Mercedes-thank you for posting it! > > Blessings and Light, > Beth > > Oh Beth you are most welcome. I had been a member of the group and the recruiter of new members until the fibromyalgia took over. There are over 600+ members all over the world and offer a variety of different methods of healing. Mercedes Mercedes Rose Herndon Reiki Master/Teacher, Artist, Photographer Designer & Creator of Silk Healing Scarves Owner of " Just for You " Custom Cards Coauthor & Publisher of: " Loving Thoughts for Gentle Hearts; v. 1 - Goals, Dreams & Affirmations " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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