Guest guest Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 Joseph Garner said: Healthcare has long been associated with spirituality, but I believe this is mistaken. Any work which is honorable is just as necessary and " spiritual " as any other, and to me, medical work is just another honorable job to do. I do believe that trying to do Chinese medicine without practicing some sort of " energy work, " be it qi gong, tai chi, yoga or what-have-you, is really missing the point of it all and is certainly not setting the right example for our patients and students. Although all these types of energy work can be taken to a so-called spiritual level, it is not necessary to do so to have the medical benefits. One can be a Mormon and practice yoga or qi gong without compromising any beliefs. Brian: I don't want to go too far on this topic here, so tell me to stop if you want Joseph, I really appreciated your post- except this last paragraph I find somewhat self-contradictory.... You say healthcare needn't be associated with spirituality, but that we must be good examples to our patients and that requires doing qigong, taichi, yoga, etc. And you say that those things can all be practiced by anyone of whatever religion. That has not been my experience... for example, there are some conflicts and questions between 'energy work' and Christianty. And many Christians are loathe to learn anything from a teacher that might blend the physical exercise with concepts from other belief systems that conflict with Christianity. I'd bet that there are loads of these teachers who are Christians, altho there are some- and then again, just because someone calls themselves a Christian doesn't mean they follow the Bible. The stats I've found say that at least 72% of Americans are Christians, so I think this is a serious issue for our profession mainstreaming in America. Again, it may be off topic, so we may have to discuss this elsewhere. B Brian Benjamin Carter Editor, The Pulse of Oriental Medicine Columnist, Acupuncture Today The PULSE of Oriental Medicine: Alternative Medicine You Can Understand http://www.pulsemed.org/ The General Public's Guide to Chinese Medicine since 1999... 8 Experts, 100+ Articles, 115,000+ readers.... Our free e-zine BEING WELL keeps you up to date with the latest greatest PULSE articles. Sign up NOW. Send a blank email to: beingwellnewsletter- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 , " Brian Carter " < bbcarter@p...> wrote: > > Again, it may be off topic, so we may have to discuss this elsewhere. > I think we better pass on this one. Please take it up elsewhere. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 Brian, I think you raise some good points. I thought presenting the Jewish perspective on this might be useful. In Judaism, anything that promotes health and well-being is 'kosher'. One can practice yoga, tai qi, qi gong, meditation, medicine, dietary regimens, and breathing exercises. One can study philosophy of medicine as well. I've studied Ayurvedic and Tibetan medical texts (in English translation), despite their 'religious' origins. The problem comes with what observant Jews consider to be worship and prayer. While Hindu and Tibetan dieties (or Taoist ones, like Quan Yin) are considered to be permissible for non-Jews, they are not for observant Jewish people. Therefore, if a yoga class has bowing before statues of Ganesa (the elephant god), or chanting dieties' names, one has to leave or abstain from taking part. When I studied with Dr. Lad in Ayurvedic medicine 22 years ago, I respectfully left the room when he led religious chanting. Chinese medicine as a profession doesn't present any problems to me as an observant Jew. I find the lifestyle of Chinese medicine enriches my Jewish practice, and visa versa. Medicine in my understanding needs to be informed by two areas: 1) the spiritual practice and development of the practitioner and 2) cultivation of relationship with the natural world. And as Joseph pointed out, qi regulating exercises are not 'worship', at least in the Jewish sense. I don't know if Christians feel this way or not, or if they need to. In institutions of Chinese medicine, I think that teaching religious practices should be discouraged, as it may be a source of great discomfort to those of other religions. I think this is not a problem at PCOM and other 'mainstream' institutions. If students want to explore these areas, they are free to do so on their own. However, I believe there is a universal code that is embedded in all religions and spiritual practices that informs ethical codes that I've read in Chinese, Ayurvedic, Tibetan and Homeopathic medicine (and, of course, the Hippocratic Oath). It is based on honesty, compassion, and caring for people. However that is cultivated is fine with me, it is the end result that counts. This also informs how we treat our patients (and students). Ted Kaptchuk once said that it is not our job to teach or sell religion to people, or make their moral/ethical decisions for them, but to help them make their own choices within their chosen tradition. That is a line I try not to cross, especially since Judaism is a non-proselytizing path. On Saturday, March 8, 2003, at 01:05 PM, Brian Carter wrote: > Brian: > I don't want to go too far on this topic here, so tell me to > stop if > you want > > Joseph, I really appreciated your post- except this last paragraph I > find > somewhat self-contradictory.... > > You say healthcare needn't be associated with spirituality, but that > we must > be good examples to our patients and that requires doing qigong, > taichi, > yoga, etc. > And you say that those things can all be practiced by anyone of > whatever > religion. > > That has not been my experience... for example, there are some > conflicts and > questions between 'energy work' and Christianty. And many Christians > are > loathe > to learn anything from a teacher that might blend the physical > exercise with > concepts > from other belief systems that conflict with Christianity. I'd bet > that > there are loads > of these teachers who are Christians, altho there are some- and then > again, > just because > someone calls themselves a Christian doesn't mean they follow the > Bible. > The stats > I've found say that at least 72% of Americans are Christians, so I > think > this is a serious issue > for our profession mainstreaming in America. > > Again, it may be off topic, so we may have to discuss this elsewhere. > > B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2003 Report Share Posted March 8, 2003 Sorry, I already posted on this one. If you want, you can remove it. I don't think it will be offensive to anyone, however. On Saturday, March 8, 2003, at 02:50 PM, wrote: > , " Brian Carter " < > bbcarter@p...> wrote: > >> >> Again, it may be off topic, so we may have to discuss this elsewhere. >> > > > I think we better pass on this one. Please take it up elsewhere. > thanks. > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 , " " < zrosenbe@s...> wrote: > Sorry, > I already posted on this one. If you want, you can remove it. I > don't think it will be offensive to anyone, however. I am not worried about offending anyone who opposes free speech. :-) I am just not sure the topic of whether qi gong, yoga, etc. might be offensive to some american patients with strong christian beliefs is relevant here. In fact, I know this to be the case, from listening to AM talk radio. But does this bear on our practice of chinese herbology. Perhaps. The same talk radio shows I heard in the midwest blasting yoga and meditation as satanic would occasionally mention acupuncture in the same breath. I suppose how we as a profession present ouselves on this issue could bear on the overall success of TCM in the longterm. If we are just perceived as some passing new age fad or even anti-christian, then we will disappear. I am not sure whether it was common or not for chinese herbalists to have an interest in mysticism, qi gong, etc. Mainstream confucian society officially frowned on mystical practices through much of chinese history, though health practices were encouraged by doctors. Clearly there has always been a fine line between the use of breathing and movement for physical exercise and using it for spiritual development, but it is still my understanding that if a prominent official used such practices for spiritual development, these were often closet practices. So I think we can assume that practices of a mystical bent were not generally prescribed by highly visible physicians. but China is a big country with a long history, so who knows? I personally prefer to present a secular medicine to the public. If TCM comes with a cosmology, then it begins to smack of cultism (and taoist cosmology is my favorite cosmology, BTW). But I'd still prefer that taoist cosmology were not our main public face. I don't think it has been the main face of TCM throughout chinese history. I think the main face has been pragmatic. so if people want to discuss the relevance of this to our practices, it may be fruitful. but this is not a place to discuss the relative worth or truth of particular world religious beliefs or lack thereof. that never gets anywhere. OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 Todd: Sorry but TCM comes with a cosmology and understanding yin and yang, qi etc. is key to the medicine, and always has been.The Nei Jing presents a cosmology( the philosophical study and explanation of the nature of the universe) Whether you, yourself, choose to present it that way or not is another issue.But without that cosmology is it Chinese medicine? Warren > I personally prefer to present a secular medicine to the public. If TCM comes > with a cosmology, then it begins to smack of cultism (and taoist cosmology is > my favorite cosmology, BTW). But I'd still prefer that taoist cosmology were > not our main public face. I don't think it has been the main face of TCM > throughout chinese history. I think the main face has been pragmatic. so if > people want to discuss the relevance of this to our practices, it may be fruitful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 , " wsheir " <wsheir@a...> wrote: : > Sorry but TCM comes with a cosmology and understanding yin and > yang, qi etc. is key to the medicine, and always has been. My post was not about the study or history of TCM, it was about what we present to the public. I do not need to explain yin and yang in cosmological terms to my patients in order to use these concepts effectively in my practice. In other words, it is not necessary that my patients accept the taoist universal creation mythology. It is necessary that they understand how to balance yin and yang in their lives in terms of hot and cold, rest and activity, etc. But they do not need to understand the overall philosophy for the medicine to work. we need to use the philosophy to make the medicine work. but these are 2 separate things. It they were not, then TCM would be what its detractors say it is. a culture bound medicine that works by the placebo effect only on those who believe in its underlying philosophy. I know you believe TCM is effective regardless of one's beliefs, so perhaps you merely mistook the intent of my last post. TCM works. science and history support this. that works for me. And as I said, Brian is right that many folks out there are not so keen on learning how the universe works on the spiritual level from their doctors. On the other hand, many folks come to us for just this purpose. I have no interest in preaching to the choir myself, so I am mainly concerned with how we reach the masses. And this may entail downplaying the quasi religious nature of certain aspects of chinese medicine when working in certain settings. nothing more. nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2003 Report Share Posted March 9, 2003 , " wsheir " <wsheir@a...> wrote: But without that cosmology is it Chinese medicine? of course not, but this is a different thing from teaching patients quasi-religious practices. taoist cosmology can be embraced in a secular way or a religious way or even a political way (this is needham's take, for example). A secular embrace understands taoist philosophy to describe nature and natural processes and I prefer to reframe it as such to my patients. a religious embrace put spiritual components into the equation that I do not believe are inherently there in my reading of the I ching and nei jing. my main concern is of a new age religion of TCM that seems to exist in some quarters, a religion I know you are not affiliated with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 Energy Work by Mara and Peggy Jentoft Energy work is a holistic or alternative medicine treatment and personal practice in which energy or life force from the universe is used to increase personal energy and energetic balance. Adjustments are made to the human energy field which restore, maintain and improve health and well being . Chi is one word used to designate the personal energy field including magnetic electric and other fields which have not yet been defined in Western Scientific terms. Energy work systems exist in most cultures and have been around since the beginning of recorded history. Some other names for these personal and universal energies are Ki, Prana, Mana , Axe, Oregone and bioenergy even " The Force " as defined by George Lucas in his Star Wars Movies is a way of describing the energy that surrounds us . Energy work methods include Acupuncture , Acupressure , Chi gong ,Tai chi, Reiki, Therapeutic touch, Huna , Polarity, and many " laying on of hands " practices. Other energy based treatments include crystal healing, Homeopathy and flower essences . Acupuncture uses thin needles inserted at the points where meridian channels cross. Acupressure uses physical pressure on these same points. Chi gong and Tai chi are " soft " martial arts or exercise forms which build up personal chi . Reiki, Therapeutic touch, Huna and Polarity are laying on of hands practices where the practitioner places hands on or near specified energy centers and meridian points and " runs " energy. Other energy based treatments include crystal healing in which crystals and gemstones are used to channel and focus various energy frequencies , Homeopathy uses very dilute medicines as the energy connection and flower essences are created by putting water containing flowers in bright sunlight the resulting energized water is used to treat emotional issues. There are two primary views in medicine of health and wellness. The allopathic theory is that disease and health problems are caused by germs or injury and can be treated entirely with measures such as antibiotics, antiseptics, other medicines and surgery. This view has been the dominant theory in the last century . The Holistic theory points out that humans are not separate from their environment and that disease and wellness derive from the total life condition of the individual. The emotions and events in the life and surroundings and relationships with others contribute to wellness. Disease usually only occurs after some disturbance to these factors. Disease usually attacks only when a being is already weakened for some reason. Trees get blights after being weakened by drought for example . Rot and disease set in in areas that are already damaged or weakened . This theory is returning to acceptance by mainstream medicine as more evidence that supports this theory is discovered. Psychologists and traditional medical doctors are seeing the relationship between happiness and health Traditional Asian medicine techniques which use holistic methods for diagnosis and treatment are becoming recognized in the West as effective for many conditions including pain relief and stress. Energy Work does not Substitute for Traditional allopathic medical treatment but supports it and can enhance it . Energy work has repeatedly been shown to be an effective addition to conventional treatment of physical physical, mental and emotional conditions . It is often effective for pain relief, stress reduction and shortening recovery time . Energy work is based on the theory that the Universe is made up of energy and the physical body is surrounded by and permeated by non physical energy fields including but not limited to electric and magnetic fields, radiated heat and other energy fields that are not perceptible by current science but which may be seen or felt by those who are sensitive to subtle energies. The fields that are worked with in energy work healing are part of energy body or human Aura. Some believe that such an energy field could not possibly exist, However there are numerous documented cases of such a force being manipulated. There are cases of people who can walk on fire, 'create' electricity, read minds, sense impending events, the list is endless. In addition to the ability of humans to perform these feats there are also scientific grounds for such a force being in existence. A phenomenon known as Zero Point Energy which suggests that there are vast quantities of energy to be tapped from atoms in the air and energy between atoms. Energy work is separate from and different than Spiritual healing. Spiritual Healing is based on spiritual or religious traditions and methods such as Prayer and invoking Gods or Faith healing . Most kinds of Energy work such as Acupressure, Tai chi, Polarity, and Reiki do not require any faith or adherence to any particular religion or philosophy . They will work with or without a spiritual or religious component . Holistic treatment usually considers Spiritual health an essential element of complete wellness. A basic theory of energy work is that the energy field or aura body contains channels and energy structures through which the life force flows. Different cultures feature different sets of centers for receiving dispersing and directing the energies throughout the entire body. the flow of energies could be described as being like streams of light or vibrating pulses. The most well known channels are the Chakra and the Meridian systems. The Chakra are often referred to in metaphysical and spiritual work. The meridians are used in acupuncture, chi gong , Reiki and traditional Chinese medicine and are considered the primary channels for the life force . These channels are not in the physical body but are in the aura . The centers and structures in the energy body may be thought of as metaphors to assist the Practitioner in mentally guiding the energy flow to do the needed work of balancing and repairing the energy body . The holistic understanding of energy and disease is that usually stresses, traumas, and emotional reactions to events in personal life and surroundings can create constrictions and blocks or overloads, tears and such other distortions in the aura. These blocks, constrictions, holdings etc. if not healed can in time, manifest as disease and emotional or mental disturbance and susceptibility to accident. When the aura is damaged as the result of physical injury and the deformation to the energy structure is not repaired then illness, injury, or chronic pain may occur in the physical area or in an energetically related one. In order to truly heal a physical problem you must also heal and restore the energy body . Using your own energy to treat others can drain a person and leave them feeling weak so Energy practitioners learn ways to draw on frequencies of universal life force to build up a surcharge of energy to use in healing work or learn how to allow the universal energy to flow through them similar to the way electricity and phone calls travel through wires . Some ways to build up a surcharge include Yoga, Tai chi, Chi gong , specialized breath exercises and chanting and guided mediation designed for this purpose . Some energies can be accessed by intention. Many subtle touch systems have people use the ability to intend and imagine to connect with a source of healing energy. Huna , Therapeutic Touch and other subtle touch systems are activated this way. Other ways to gain access to healing energies include attunements or transmissions /empowerments . The ability to connect with a specific set of energy frequencies is transmitted to you by a teacher of that energy work system. Reiki , Drisana , Love Stream, Tera Mai are among the systems that use attunements. People Either learn to do energy work for themselves and others or go to a practitioner of one of the forms available . Typically someone seeking treatment from an energy work practitioner discusses the reasons they wish treatment with the practitioner and receives an explanation of what to expect from the treatment . People go to energy work practitioners for many reasons some are seeking improvement in physical or mental and emotional conditions or want to increase relaxation or hoping to improve sports performance for example . Most energy work treatments do not produce instantaneous cures though minor pain relief such as relieving headache or muscle cramp may take only a few moments . Energy work is intended to restore and maintain energetic balance and treatments are usually repeated daily or weekly for several weeks or longer . Typically the client will be seated on a stool or chair or lie down on a massage table and the practitioner will place their hands on or near the body in a sequence of positions for around three to five minutes a position . The client may feel heat or tingling as the treatment is done. Most treatments take around 45 minutes and clients usually report feeling unusually relaxed afterwards. Everyone has an energy field. Most people can learn to sense or see this field The Energy ball exercise is one way used to learn how to sense the energy field around us. Begin by holding your hands a foot or so apart, bringing them slowly towards each other, until you feel as though a mass of energy has built up between your hands This is your personal Chi or energy field . You may feel a tingle. You may also try scooping motions to collect ambient chi from your surroundings. It may take some practice to feel the energy ball. Some people do not sense energy this way at all. Sometimes people don't feel their own energy ball, but they would feel other people's because the frequency is slightly different. Energy balls can be used in energy treatment but for the most part the purpose is to familiarize you with your own personal energy. Anyone can learn to do energy work. Some attunement methods take only a few moments or a few hours to learn how to open your energy channels and allow you to run universal energy through your hands . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 Peggy, Thanks for the great informative posting on Energy Work. I'm getting my Level II Shamballa attunement tomorrow and I really enjoy energy work. It's great! Your article (and Mara's) really helps me to explain the differences to others who are not so familiar with energy work ~ most people I talk to about it have the impression that it's spiritual healing; you make a very good point in stating how it is uniquely different. Thanks again! Love and Light, Julie , rosequartz wrote: > Energy Work by Mara and Peggy Jentoft > Energy work is a holistic or alternative medicine treatment and personal practice in which energy or life force from the universe is used to increase personal energy and energetic balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 In a message dated 19/10/03 10:22:55, writes: << Thanks for the great informative posting on Energy Work. I'm getting my Level II Shamballa attunement tomorrow and I really enjoy energy work. It's great! Your article (and Mara's) really helps me to explain the differences to others who are not so familiar with energy work ~ >> Thanks Julie for reminding me to say thank you to Peggy and Mara for a lovely piece explaining about energy! Thank you both. I am just copying it to print. Love, Light & Laughter ~ Diane xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 I also want to thank Peggy and Mara for this very informative description of the various types of energy work. This definitely helps me answer questions much more clearly! Namaste! Mary-Helena From the Blooming of a Lotus: “We are often exposed, if not first hand, then through films, reading material, and conversations, to violence, fear, hatred, meaningless infatuations. Society is full of violence and hatred, which accumulates in the collective consciousness. If in our daily lives we do not know now to abstain from damaging materials and attitudes, the seeds of violence, hatred and suffering in us will continue to be watered. We need to be aware of what we hear, see, and read every day… Do our associations and consumptions poison us?” -Thich Nhat Hanh Help the planet each day! It's free and easy: http://www.Care2.com/dailyaction/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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