Digest Number 480

[Guest guest]

, " Garry Seifert " <seifert@n...> wrote:

 

If there is no evidence that yin vacuity has been

> caused by lifestyle and particularly if the client is young, or the yin

> vacuity has developed quickly, I look for a history of heat toxin. Heat

> toxins easily damage yin and exhaust qi. So whenever there are heat toxins

> it is always appropriate to use yin and qi reinforcing medicinals as a

> protection, even when there are not yet any signs of qi or yin damage. And

> more important to use medicinals that clear heat and resolve toxins. If I

> find obvious signs of qi or yin damage I adjust my treatment accordingly.

>

 

 

thanks Garry

 

that is very enlightening and helpful. I am often often reluctant to

diagnose yin xu in patients whose lifestyle and age do not justify it.

The added component of heat toxin rapidly depleting yin makes a lot of

sense.

 

[Guest guest]

Garry

In reference to cancer treatment

Can you tell me a bit more about xi shu ,san jian shan and zhong jie feng and

which books they maybe in.(they are not in my old edition of Bensky)

 

Garry Seifert wrote:

 

> Garry

>

> How do you differentiate between

>

> 1. vacuity and heat due to yin depletion versus vacuity and

>

> 2. heat from qi xu and yin fire (such as dampheat, depressed heat or

> minsterial fire flaring) and

>

> 3. vacuity and heat that may be either due to qi or yin depletion plus

> the added component of heat toxin?

>

> Are their particular signs and symptoms that are key or are etiological

> factors most important (i.e. radiation). Finally, have you seen

> impressive results using this approach?

>

 

>

> I don't think there is anything special about the way I diagnose. I simply

> collect all the information I can, and think of a scenario that explains it

> all. In complicated conditions with more than one pattern, I normally use my

> understanding of disease aetiology to help me form scenarios that explain

> which symptoms belong to which patterns, but not always. I believe that

> sometimes healing is blocked by pathological processes that have nothing to

> do with the disease that is being treated, so sometimes I ignore disease

> aetiology when formulating a diagnosis.

>

> If I suspect that there is qi xu and yin fire rather than yin vacuity, I

> look for evidence to support my suspicion -- absence of typical yin vacuity

> symptoms such as night sweats and afternoon flushing of the cheeks,

> presence of replete heat symptoms such as more heat at the backs of the

> hands than at the palms, and presence of specific pathogens such as greasy

> tongue moss in damp heat. Nothing special.

>

> When there is yin vacuity I ask myself where did this come from? I check my

> client's lifestyle, I look at their age, and I look at the speed at which

> the yin vacuity developed. If there is no evidence that yin vacuity has been

> caused by lifestyle and particularly if the client is young, or the yin

> vacuity has developed quickly, I look for a history of heat toxin. Heat

> toxins easily damage yin and exhaust qi. So whenever there are heat toxins

> it is always appropriate to use yin and qi reinforcing medicinals as a

> protection, even when there are not yet any signs of qi or yin damage. And

> more important to use medicinals that clear heat and resolve toxins. If I

> find obvious signs of qi or yin damage I adjust my treatment accordingly.

>

> Radiation is a kind of heat toxin so it is always appropriate to use heat

> clearing toxin resolving medicinals after radiation treatment.

>

> Sometimes treatments don't work, sometimes survival time can be increased or

> even prolonged indefinitely, sometimes cancers can be reduced in size (which

> sometimes makes surgery possible), and occasionally cancers disappear

> altogether. Different people respond differently to treatment and so do

> different stages of different cancers.

>

> Professor Zhou treats cancer according to pattern diagnosis, but he allows

> research on the use of herbs for the treatment of cancer to inform his

> prescribing of medicinals. I think this information is useful so here are

> the basics:

>

> Herbs that directly kill cancer cells include: qing dai, san jian shan, e

> zhu, ban mao, dong long cao, and xi shu.

>

> Herbs that have an anti-carcinogenic effects by strengthening the immune

> system include: ren shen, bei qi, nu zhen zi, dong chong cao, zhu ling, and

> ling zhi.

>

> Herbs that help prevent pre-tumorous pathological changes include: nu zhen

> zi, tu si zi, qi zi, and dong ling cao.

>

> Herbs that help prevent metastasising in breast cancer include: bai zhu and

> huang qi.

>

> Herbs with other anti-carcinogenic effects and which are able to reduce pain

> and prolong survival time include: bai hua she she cao, ban zi lian, qi ye

> yi zhi hua, shi shang bo, zhong jie feng, da huang, tian qi, chan su, wu

> gong, and shui zhi.

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in

Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including

board approved online continuing education.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Garry

 

How do you differentiate between

 

1. vacuity and heat due to yin depletion versus vacuity and

 

2. heat from qi xu and yin fire (such as dampheat, depressed heat or

minsterial fire flaring) and

 

3. vacuity and heat that may be either due to qi or yin depletion plus

the added component of heat toxin?

 

Are their particular signs and symptoms that are key or are etiological

factors most important (i.e. radiation). Finally, have you seen

impressive results using this approach?

 

 

I don't think there is anything special about the way I diagnose. I simply

collect all the information I can, and think of a scenario that explains it

all. In complicated conditions with more than one pattern, I normally use my

understanding of disease aetiology to help me form scenarios that explain

which symptoms belong to which patterns, but not always. I believe that

sometimes healing is blocked by pathological processes that have nothing to

do with the disease that is being treated, so sometimes I ignore disease

aetiology when formulating a diagnosis.

 

If I suspect that there is qi xu and yin fire rather than yin vacuity, I

look for evidence to support my suspicion -- absence of typical yin vacuity

symptoms such as night sweats and afternoon flushing of the cheeks,

presence of replete heat symptoms such as more heat at the backs of the

hands than at the palms, and presence of specific pathogens such as greasy

tongue moss in damp heat. Nothing special.

 

When there is yin vacuity I ask myself where did this come from? I check my

client's lifestyle, I look at their age, and I look at the speed at which

the yin vacuity developed. If there is no evidence that yin vacuity has been

caused by lifestyle and particularly if the client is young, or the yin

vacuity has developed quickly, I look for a history of heat toxin. Heat

toxins easily damage yin and exhaust qi. So whenever there are heat toxins

it is always appropriate to use yin and qi reinforcing medicinals as a

protection, even when there are not yet any signs of qi or yin damage. And

more important to use medicinals that clear heat and resolve toxins. If I

find obvious signs of qi or yin damage I adjust my treatment accordingly.

 

Radiation is a kind of heat toxin so it is always appropriate to use heat

clearing toxin resolving medicinals after radiation treatment.

 

Sometimes treatments don't work, sometimes survival time can be increased or

even prolonged indefinitely, sometimes cancers can be reduced in size (which

sometimes makes surgery possible), and occasionally cancers disappear

altogether. Different people respond differently to treatment and so do

different stages of different cancers.

 

Professor Zhou treats cancer according to pattern diagnosis, but he allows

research on the use of herbs for the treatment of cancer to inform his

prescribing of medicinals. I think this information is useful so here are

the basics:

 

Herbs that directly kill cancer cells include: qing dai, san jian shan, e

zhu, ban mao, dong long cao, and xi shu.

 

Herbs that have an anti-carcinogenic effects by strengthening the immune

system include: ren shen, bei qi, nu zhen zi, dong chong cao, zhu ling, and

ling zhi.

 

Herbs that help prevent pre-tumorous pathological changes include: nu zhen

zi, tu si zi, qi zi, and dong ling cao.

 

Herbs that help prevent metastasising in breast cancer include: bai zhu and

huang qi.

 

Herbs with other anti-carcinogenic effects and which are able to reduce pain

and prolong survival time include: bai hua she she cao, ban zi lian, qi ye

yi zhi hua, shi shang bo, zhong jie feng, da huang, tian qi, chan su, wu

gong, and shui zhi.

[Guest guest]

Eva, Doesn't the lye cover / or ruin the fragrance of the Hydrosol? Or turn

the color brown?? I would love to try it in soap but am afraid of it getting

ruined. I make crockpot soap and when I tried using fruit juice it turned a

brown and the fruit smell was gone. I do love using the hydrosols in my lotions

and spritzer........

 

Carol in Idaho (who is no longer Walsh [a single lady], but now a Healy)

 

 

Fri, 31 May 2002 01:34:05 -0000

" mr_marble1999 " <evaedwards

Re: uses for Rose Hydrasol

 

Hi Terri,

I have used it in soaps as the liquid.

Eva

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

At 11:44 PM 05/31/02, doggone wrote:

> Eva, Doesn't the lye cover / or ruin the fragrance of the Hydrosol? Or

> turn the color brown?? I would love to try it in soap but am afraid of

> it getting ruined.

 

I just made a batch using rose hydrosol as the liquid. When I poured the

lye into it, the mixture turned a rosey brownish color, but when I mixed it

in with the oils, it lightened up. I ended up with a nice off-white bar of

soap. I can't really speak about the fragrance, though. I used eo's to

scent this soap.... so it doesn't have a rose smell to it at all.

 

-- Sandy

[Guest guest]

I question what doctors AND acupuncturists mean by

" doing any good " and " healing. " The first major issue

is not whether 200 hours is sufficient to learn points

and methods that take away IMMEDIATE pain and

complaint. The issue is what is best for a patient's

LONG-TERM well being.

 

Sometimes pain is the only thing keeping a patient

from doing more than he or she should. Some suffering

is necessary--as warning signals, as a way to force a

person to be different in life, as a reminder that we

are not necessarily intended to work, play, eat,

shout, etcetera as much as we think we would like to.

 

The second major issue has to do with followup and

followthrough. Acupuncture is NOT just about sticking

needles in someone for a few weeks. It is about

examining and observing, about watching for shifts,

and about creating practices in life that support all

of one's relationships in life. This means commitment

and attention in an on-going way for both patient and

practitioner. This includes a commitment on M.D.'s

parts to work towards helping patients avoid

unnecessary medications and surgeries. This includes a

commitment on L.Ac's parts to build relationships with

the allopathic community and to learn how best to

share what we know with one another.

 

The biggest threat to health, in my opinion, is the

general desire to not feel pain--especially the

seemingly slow pain of transformation.

 

Blessings and peace in 2003,

Cathy

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Great post Cathy.

 

I would hope that we all agree that at core what is best for patients IS

certainly a well-trained and caring practitioner in order to arrive at the

best treatment plan(s) including but not limited to acupuncture.

 

And to your second point - AGAIN - only a well trained practitioner has the

slightest chance of accomplishing the ongoing re-view EACH and EVERY time to

coordinate the patient's movement back to homedynamics.

 

I am in the process of writing a definition for the concept 'acupuncture' to

be given to a federal subcommittee because they claim they really don't know

the meaning. There are many connotations and limitations from the tiny-est of

subsets such as using acupuncture needles (in all it's variations - some

which puncture the skin and some which do not) to the overall concept(s) of

the multitude of bio-physical modalities which affect the points/channels.

This addresses your correct comment that acupuncture is NOT just sticking

needles.

 

Richard

 

 

 

In a message dated 1/3/03 2:41:37 PM, beaneedle writes:

 

<< I question what doctors AND acupuncturists mean by

" doing any good " and " healing. " The first major issue

is not whether 200 hours is sufficient to learn points

and methods that take away IMMEDIATE pain and

complaint. The issue is what is best for a patient's

LONG-TERM well being.

 

Sometimes pain is the only thing keeping a patient

from doing more than he or she should. Some suffering

is necessary--as warning signals, as a way to force a

person to be different in life, as a reminder that we

are not necessarily intended to work, play, eat,

shout, etcetera as much as we think we would like to.

 

The second major issue has to do with followup and

followthrough. Acupuncture is NOT just about sticking

needles in someone for a few weeks. It is about

examining and observing, about watching for shifts,

and about creating practices in life that support all

of one's relationships in life. This means commitment

and attention in an on-going way for both patient and

practitioner. This includes a commitment on M.D.'s

parts to work towards helping patients avoid

unnecessary medications and surgeries. This includes a

commitment on L.Ac's parts to build relationships with

the allopathic community and to learn how best to

share what we know with one another.

 

The biggest threat to health, in my opinion, is the

general desire to not feel pain--especially the

seemingly slow pain of transformation.

 

Blessings and peace in 2003,

Cathy >>