Help about nocturnal ejaculation - and the pain that follows

[Guest guest]

Hello

 

No no,

 

I have done no experimenting, I see an acupuncturist right now. And he

prescribed all the pills that I have taken - I have done no experimenting

myself. Sorry if the email was unclear.

 

The reason why I wrote to this list in the beginning was that I was afraid that

his diagnosis was wrong when my body reacted like it did and still does - I was

really scared and needed to others advices, because it so hard to qualified help

(I have tried two acupuncturists before him - not that I just discard one

practioneer after another - because I have ended with each treatment and I still

have symptoms - that is why I am sceptical and poor :-). All three times (first

one three years ago, second one a half year ago, third I started with for 1

month ago) have been about treating the premature ejaculation and its symptoms.

 

Then between each of these I have tried Tai CHi and Tantra - but none has really

helped - and now there is something infectios state in my tubes after I have

begun with this acupuncturist.

 

Hope this clarifies my former mail.

 

Best regards

Henrik

-

victoria_dragon

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Thursday, June 19, 2003 7:33 PM

[Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: Help about nocturnal ejaculation - and the pain

that follows

 

 

> I found a few days ago what I thought to be a dietary supplement

(which was the reason why I did not mention it in my former email -

and I am sorry about that) actually is 'Zhi bai di huang' (10 pills

in morning and afternoon) and these have I been taken together

with 'Kai kit wan' (8 pills in morning and afternoon) for 8 days all

in all (before that it was jin suo gu jing wan).

 

It sounds like you need to stop experimenting on yourself for a

while. Wait until you know more about TCM before cautiously trying

things.

 

You may also want to consult with your TCM healer for a re-evaluation.

 

If you have been trying things on your own in addition to what s/he

has been recommending, this is going to make it difficult for him/her

to evaluate the effectiveness of the treatments s/he recommends.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Zenny,

 

Thank you for your learned comments. I now understand the role of the twin

Ki formulations a little better, and the place of Aconite and Cinnamon. I

must admit though the power and subtlety of these herbal mixes never ceases

to amaze me. Another source of amazement for me is acupuncture, and the

meridian system .. but I digress ..

 

Something that concerns me is the effect of chronic Ki (Yin/Yng) deficiency

on the bone which can become fragile and prone to pain (and disease).

 

I have heard of a single herb (Zhong Jai Feng - bone healing wood - Herba

Sarcandra) used in China to address this problem but it is difficult to get

details because it is used infrequently to treat an 'acute on chronic'

condition of the bone. In the West we have a fairly good armoury for

treating acute conditions, and a much poorer set of weaponry for chronic

conditions.

 

I'd be very interested to hear more about Zhong Jai Feng, and I am wondering

if there is a comparison with the use in conventional medicine of

bisphosphonates for bone disease.

 

Sincerely,

 

Sammy.

 

 

 

 

Zenny (Chien-Ming) CHEN [jming8cdu]

18 June 2003 20:15

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Cc: artselyse,r.victorio,

Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Help about nocturnal ejaculation - and the

pain that follows

 

 

Dear Sammy & All,

 

Thanks for your information about the herb website. I think we'll have

to have a little discussion about the histry of the formula here. Hope

you guys wouldn't be bored by it.

 

As said in the bottom of that website, " Jin Gui Shen Qi Wan " originates

in Synopsis of Prescriptions of the Golden Chamber " . The ingredients

originally include all indicating but " Rou Gui, Cinnamon Bark "

(originally " Gui Zhi, Cinnamon Twig " is used instead). Some TCM Master

after Zhang Zhong Jing altered the " twig " to " bark " for " stronger warm "

with " Fu Zhi, Aconitum Root " , and named it " Ba Wei Di Huang Wan " ever

since. But the names are substituable with each other, yet the " bark "

is used not the " twig " . The principle of the fomula is to " tonify

Kidney Qi " (Actually, more like Kidney's Yang Qi) from the help of

Kidney's Jing (more like Kidney's Yin Jing). Yet, the herbs to help

Kidney Jing outnumber and outweigh those to help Kidney Qi in the

formula, following the principle in the " Huang Di Nei Jing, the Yellow

Emporer's Inner Classic " as " 'shao huo, little fire' bears Qi " . In

this fomula, it is both Fu Zi and Rou Gui do the job of " lighting up the

'shao huo' " in the Kidney.

 

Fu Zi and Rou Gui are commonly used as a pair in many fomula or cases to

boost the warmth in the kidney. If Fu Zi is taken away, then Rou Gui

should be added more, yet not as powerful and effective as in pair with

Fu Zi. There are incompatible between Fu Zi's family member, Wu

Tou/Radix Aconiti, with Bei Mu/Bulbus Fritillariae, Gua Lou/Fructus

Trichosanthis, Ban Xia/Rhizoma Pinelliae, Bai lian/Raix Ampelopsis, Bai

Ji/Rhizoma Bletillae. (Chinese Herbal Medicine, Dan Bensky & Andrew

Gamble, p. 11) When applying Wu Tou, one should be careful about the

" fight " among them. Fu Zi, on the other hand, isn't mentioned yet

should be still careful about the " fight " too.

 

Another histry about " Liu Wei Di Huang Wan " is that it was also altered

by Song Dynsaty TCM Master Qian Yi taking out the Gui Zhi and Fu Zi to

be suitable for children's condition (Yin is under developing while Yang

seems to be excessive). TCM Masters after him used it to " tonify

Kidney Yin " ; and it becomes the representative formula for the Kidney

Yin defficiency. Although it has six ingredients same as " Ba Wei Di

Huang Wan/Jin Gui Shen Qi Wan " , the effectiveness and application

between them is different., yet not conflicting. The Kidney is the

" house " of both Yin and Yang. To balance the Yin and Yang in the Kidney

is always the number one thought, if the symptoms are not relating to

other organs. If the patient is diagnosed and differentiated as " Both

Kidney Yin and Yang Defficiency " , taking " Ba Wei Di Huang Wan/Jin Gui

Shen Qi Wan " in the day time and " Liu Wei Di Huang Wan " in the night

time is good suggestion for him.

 

The above is more like academic discussion. I think the discussion

should be based on the patient's subjective symtoms. Maybe we should

review his condition more now.

 

Thanks for your attention.

 

 

Zenny

 

 

 

ga.bates wrote:

 

>

> Dear Zenny & All,

>

> I found this formula which may strengthen Ki Yang on the following site

> http://www.china-guide.com/hr00gb12.html it is called Jin Kui Shen Qi Wan.

> The formula includes (quoting from the page):

>

> Ingredients:

> Chinese Foxglove (Rehmannia glutinosa libosch),

> Cornus Fruit (Cornus officinalis siebold),

> Chinese Yam (Discocera japonica thumg),

> Moutan Root (paeonia suffuticosa andrews),

> Poria Fungus (Poria cocos wolff),

> Alisma Phizome (Alisma plantago-aquatica),

> Cinnamon Bark (Cinnamonum cassia),

> Aconitum Root (Acconitum carmichaeli).

>

> The last item is not found in some formulations and I think it is worth

> looking out to make sure the following:

>

> If you take the formulation with Aconite make sure you are not taking

> anything else that will 'fight' with this herb. A second formulation to

> strengthen kidney Yin such as Lu Wei Di Huang Wan is superficially similar

> but may have different and conflicting effects. Perhaps one of the experts

> could comment ?

>

> Also, I am not so sure if the formulation Jin Kui Shen Qi Wan without the

> Aconite is any good - it is easy to buy at TCM shops but I suspect they

> 'water down' these pills for public consumption so that complications are

> avoided. Again a comment from one of the experts would be appreciated

> on the

> effectiveness of Jin Kui Shen Qi Wan with and without Aconite.

>

> Cheers,

>

> Sammy.

>

>

>

> Zenny (Chien-Ming) CHEN [jming8cdu]

> 17 June 2003 22:10

> Chinese Traditional Medicine

> Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Help about nocturnal ejaculation - and the

> pain that follows

>

>

> HI All,

>

> If the differentiation for him is " Both Kidney Yang & Yin Defficiency " ,

> to take different fomula in the day time and night time is really

> excellent suggestion, I think. Yet, " Fu Zi Li Zhong Wan " is more for

> " Spleen Yang Defficiency " , and " Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan " is used for excess

> heat result from Kidney Yin Defficiency; both are not quite suitable for

> patient with " Both Ki Yang & Yin Defficiency " . I'd suggest that the " Ba

> Wei Di Huang Wan " in the morning for the Kidney Yang, " Gui Pi Tang " at

> noon time for balancing both Yin & Yang by tonifying the spleen and

> liver, and " Liu Wei Di Huang Wan " at night for the Kindey Yin

> Defficiency. If the patient tends to have more " defficiency heat

> symtoms " at night, then " Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan " is also good to take at

> night, but with smaller dosage due to the " coldness " nature of the

> fomula that in the long run might further damage the " Kidney Yang " thus

> would create an new imbalanced Ki Yin-Yang.

>

> Thanks for attention.

>

> Zenny Chen

> M.S. of TCM (CDUTCM/China)

>

> subincor wrote:

>

> > --- ga.bates wrote:

> >

> > > Actually it does not sound silly at all. Perfectly

> > > economical - especially

> > > in context of the thread.

> >

> > haha, I just meant that Zhi Bai is the basic

> > prescription for hollow heat, and I made it sound like

> > I did indeed agree that Zhi bai is for hollow heat.

> >

> > > might then lead you on to a more differentiated

> > > treatment. For example

> > > something to raise Kidney Yang during the day and

> > > then raise kidney Yin at

> > > night in order to balance the Yin/Yang in essential

> > > Ki Qi (Jing)?

> >

> > There is nothing wrong with this approach. It is a

> > little time consuming, and requires a committed

> > patient, unless one is doing it with patents in which

> > case it is fairly standard.

> >

> > For example, Some one with dual kidney yin and yang

> > vacuity could benefit from Fu Zi LiZhong in the

> > morning (boost yng), and Zhi Bai Di Huang in the

> > evening (bost yin).

> >

> > Hugo

> >

> > ______________________

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> >

> >