Ericksonian Hypnosis

[Guest guest]

Hi Pierre.

 

> the ONE question I seem to find no answer to, anywhere.

 

Maybe because it's very hard to answer so everyone avoids it

 

> What is the physiological difference between sleep and trance?

> Or sleep and alpha state?

> Or trance and alpha-state?

 

I just read a (german) book about this topic called " Trance - the

psychology of extraordinary states of consciousness " when I remembered

your question.

First, I will try to get a bit more specific on your questions as I

understand them.

The book talks about a lot of different states of trance but I take

that by " trance " you are referring to a hypnotic trance state.

By " alpha " I take you are referring to a state of self-hypnosis which

is mostly on the upper scale of hypnotic trance states, except you are

experienced.

 

(As far as I understood it, " meditation " and " hypnosis " differ mostly

in intention and how they are induced but I think that the trance

states are pretty similar so I'll just include meditation to hypnotic

trance states )

 

According to my definition of your questions (sounds funny ) I'll

just delete the last question as an alpha-state is a trance state but

not all trance states are alpha states.

 

Rapid-Eye-Movement-Sleep (associated with vivid dreamin) is associated

with a theta state (compared to the alpha state which is a alpha state

[and to deep sleep almost without dreaming which is a delta state])

so that SEEMS to explain your second question.

 

But it only complicates things on the first question (and I think I am

just getting to your real question) as experienced meditators /

self-hypnotists can reach theta-states consciously and as Doc said,

one person was even measured to have reached a delta-state while

meditating.

 

First, you never are " in " beta, " in " alpha, " in " theta, " in " delta as

your brain produces pretty much all of them all the time, what's

important is how much of what and where!

 

beta-, alpha-, theta-, delta-states...

are just constructs to try to explain several states of consciousness

that are similar according to the EEG... BUT

 

" It has never been possible in EEG work to argue from alterations in

EEG patterns or spectral profile to changes in mental state, as

patterns and profiles are non-specific, and many occur with a variety

of different sets of brain functioning, each of which can support a

different cognitive state. "

 

So... a decreasing alertness AS WELL AS complex mental processes can

produce slower rhythms in the EEG.

Both lead to a moving of the focus inward.

But it is not possible to REALLY differentiate sleep and trance

according to the EEG.

 

They seem to have some differences as in sleep the theta waves can be

seen to be dominant without further measuring when with complex mental

processes you have to perform a spectral analysis to find that out.

 

That doesn't include the " where " as for example in meditation you have

reduced alpha and theta in the whole brain but increased and more

regular alpha and theta in the frontal brain but that also depends on

the intention of the meditator.

 

So I guess the whole EEG thing is not what you were looking for

 

> But given that they can both occur at the same level of brain

> activity, what is the physiological diference between them all?

 

Some people " discovered " that hypnosis is more like sleep than other

trance states.

They said that it's because you have less activation concerning DC

potentials, activated by the formatio reticularis (I hope it's the

same word in english!).

 

This is not true but could still lead to an answer to your question.

 

If a stimulus is monotone or unimportant, the activation is small.

If a stimulus is unexpected, the activation is much stronger.

 

What other people discovered later is that how big the activation

through the formatio reticularis is depends on the suggestion.

Probably the people who claimed that hypnosis is closer to sleep than

other trance states used monotone stimulations and inductions.

 

> Is it just some " obscur parts of the brain being activated or shut

> down " ?

 

If I look at a book from Rossi he also mentions the formatio

reticularis as being important as it activates the other parts of a

brain according to the importance of the stimulus that it is given.

 

I THINK somewhere here lies the important difference between sleep and

trance.

 

In trance it is (obviously) possible to condition people = TO LEARN.

In sleep, it is not.

 

I am not quite sure but it might have a lot to do with the formatio

reticularis.

When the brain activating part is mostly shut down (except for VERY

strong or important stimuli) you can't learn because your brain

doesn't react.

 

Might also explain why it is possible to hypnotize people out of sleep.

The low stimulus of a soft-speaking voice might arise the " interest "

of the formatio reticularis so that the brain can process incoming

things again and as long as there is no perceived threat you don't

wake up.

Oups

 

> I know what it's like to be in trance.

> I know what it's like to be asleep.

> I know what it's like to be conscious at alpha.

 

I also know what it's like to be conscious asleep.

Which doesn't make things easier here

 

[Another interesting thing:

Rossi mentions that when they destroyed the part of the formatio

reticularis that is responsible for inhibiting the acting out of

dreams in cats.......

those cats acted out their dreams.

 

Hmmm. Lately it happened from time to time that I slipped from lucid

dreaming to moving in my bed which woke me up. Or by saying something

loudly what I was dreaming of.]

 

My conclusion is...

Seems to be the formatio reticularis you are looking for.

 

But I am open to ANYTHING contrary to that and any additional

information..

 

I think I should have started with that but Pierre...

 

Why is that so important to you?

What can you do with that knowledge?

Does it improve the practical consciousness/subconsciousness construct

in any way?

 

Seems the whole thing was a classical " Why? " question without much

practical use to it. Maybe that's why I was also interested in it

Godd...

I'll have to pay more attention to that.

 

But my research today has given me a lot of answers and ideas I have

been looking for about trance and its advantages.

 

Have a great day anyone.

Michael