Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Janel. I wish all the world could hear this. I wish you would write an article for Mothering Magazine. The majority of parents still think of babies as helpless, clueless, no memory and barely conscious of what's going on. What a mistake. There is a little 3 month old I take care of and she likes to go to sleep in her swing rather than being rocked. So I put her in it and I sit right next to her in the rocking chair and read and hold her foot while she nods off. But sometimes I glance over at her and I see her studying my face intently, with full intelligence and thoughtful observation. When we lock eyes she breaks into a smile. There is another whole world we don't know about there. Yet. That's why I value the APPPAH conference and books by Chamberlain and Verny. And I wish I could study under Castellini. Vicky vicky york Lactation consultant, postpartum doula postpartum care services . Oregon vmyork Work : 5412556368 Review me at iKarma Want to spread your own reputation? - Janel Miranda ayurveda Wednesday, September 27, 2006 8:02 AM PerinatalAyurveda forum Re: Babies preconditioned to like formula milk? Hello --- Also to consider ---- as adults we have forgotten that wee, little ones are fully present souls in a human body. They FEEL and react to everything in their environment. When mother and/or father experience anything, but especially significant change (ie., mother returning to work) the little one experiences it as well. UNFORTUNATELY, babies are not able to process with the neocortex brain and talk about it. They still experience it, react, and adjust, and the neocortex of the brain IS developing around his or her experience. In addition to the phsycial aspect of adjusting to formula at six months, baby is also adjusting to mother's abence, including absence of her breast as safety and nurturing. Baby will experience, without condolence or acknowledgement of feelings, that mother is gone. Every baby will react differently. My own daughter, at age six months, refused to make eye contact with me when I returned home after a three week absence -- resulting in her weaning. She giggled, cooed, and reached for her twelve year old brother. I had so regretted the decision to be gone and was totally miserable for the entire time. I had driven 1800 miles like a lunactic to see her and I was crushed that she would have nothing to do with me. She would only acknowledge her brother -- when I got my face in hers she would turn away from me and look for him and gabber and laugh with delight. She was obviously pissed. Five years later during my intense training in prenatal and birth therapy (www.castellinotraining.com) she and I healed this break in our attachment/relationship. What could have become a " funny family story " was actually a profoundly significant wounding and an opportunity for healing. The way in which a baby reacts to a situation will be a response that began in response to the circumstances of conception and the soul's journey, then the earliest experience of attachment to the uterine wall, then the attachment after birth (always disrupted in modern birth), and in this case, likely, the experience of first feedings --- was formula given during this sensitive period? It's all cummulative. Emotional issues, like addictions to food begin in the primal period. Choosing formula and baby food over the mother's breast ---> choose food and substances over human connection. It may feel like the " bad news " , but the " good news " is that we can heal it if we are conscious of it. We women no longer have to carry and hold guilt -- we can transform it and our relationship with our babies. Babies will communicate very directly and clearly when we are willing to observe and listen, and let them have their opinion of the situations. They are very forgiving when they know we are heart-felt in our apology -- and their brain forms NEW connections around that experience. Janel Martin-Miranda www.InfantParentHealing.com www.BabyKeeper.com/blogspot.com www.ItstheBabysBirth.com -- coming soon www.SafeBabyResolution.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Hi, Vicky --- Yep, once you experience that connection you describe, you can not ever treat babies the same. What a lucky baby!! In doing the healing work we look for resources -- from Peter Levine's trauma work. To heal the traumatic experience one needs to be resourced. Resources are experiences, remembered in the body, of an experience of when one was resourced -- seen, felt, safe, nourished, acknowledged. You are providing that for the little girl you care for. Your description of her interaction with you is sweet, and so right on. It is how babies respond when someone really interacts with them, acknowledges them, supports them. Instead of you, the adult, insisting on you putting her where you believe she should be ( " Sleeping in the swing is bad for her -- she should be in her bed even if she needs to cry it out. " *$(*@*@ & %!! )-- you support her where she wants to be (where she has some resource). IMAGINE if the world did get it and we began to treat babies with upmost respect, respecting their boundaries and needs!! What if nurses, midwives, and doctors got it!! How would they change what they do to babies in labor and birth!? It would change the world. What if only mothers and fathers were the first to touch the baby in the first hours -- no more rough scrubbing in the first seconds of life! What if WHEN and IF it is time and necessary to do ANYTHING, the nurses spoke softly to the baby about what she needs to do and explained it? " Ok, I need to give you a shot for XYZ. I am sorry, it is going to hurt you when I stick it in your leg. May I touch your leg now to show you where I will stick it? " And, wait for the response. " I am going to wait until you let mama and me know you are ready. " It is amazing to watch a newborn respond to respect for his or her body and self. How WOULD it change the world??? Our society is so unconscious-- EVEN for children, it is very common for medical people to just grab and jab an infant and child, or have mother hold down or distract the child while they come at them with injections and instruments. Even for adults -- my second and LAST mammogram was done that way! Thanks for the wishes --- I agree. I have been wanting to do an article for Mothering Magazine for awhile. I have about 100 at least!!I'd love to do a regular column!! Actually, Thomas Verney wrote an article for Mothering magazine either last summer or fall editiion. It very well done, BUT, he was trashed in the letters to the editor the next month. He wrote a nice intro to the prenatal psych and about women clearing out the cobwebs prior to pregnancy and the responses by women were very intense --- they could not embrace how their life during the prenatal period could be issues for their baby. It sounded like she had experienced violent relationship and her midwife assured her it would not hurt the baby. While I appreciate the situation a midwife is in, our collective denial doesn't benefit babies. Here are some other resources for the info. Check out www.myrnamartin.com -- she is in Canada, very close to Washington state. She is one of Ray's certified trainees and she is conducting her own prenatal and birth therapy trainings. Wendy McCarty www.wondrousbeginnng.com co-developed therapy with castellino. She has online courses and she'll be in Minneapolis in two weeks. She founded the graduate program in pre and perinatal psych at www.sbgi.edu. YOu can do a certificate program on line that is very reasonable. The were both students of William Emerson at www.emersonbirthrx.com. There is also a pre and perinatal group. I'll forward the address. I have the SafeBabyResolution up as well. I haven't yet done an introduction, but the resolution is up. I am working with two people -- one in Hawaii and one in Texas -- and the resolution is being introduced in Hawaii. I am working on the website that will support people in every state to get involved. Take care --- Janel ayurveda , <VMYORK wrote: > > Janel. I wish all the world could hear this. I wish you would write an article for Mothering Magazine. The majority of parents still think of babies as helpless, clueless, no memory and barely conscious of what's going on. What a mistake. There is a little 3 month old I take care of and she likes to go to sleep in her swing rather than being rocked. So I put her in it and I sit right next to her in the rocking chair and read and hold her foot while she nods off. But sometimes I glance over at her and I see her studying my face intently, with full intelligence and thoughtful observation. When we lock eyes she breaks into a smile. There is another whole world we don't know about there. Yet. That's why I value the APPPAH conference and books by Chamberlain and Verny. And I wish I could study under Castellini. Vicky > > > vicky york > Lactation consultant, postpartum doula > postpartum care services > . > Oregon > vmyork Work : 5412556368 > > > Review me at iKarma Want to spread your own reputation? > > - > Janel Miranda > ayurveda > Wednesday, September 27, 2006 8:02 AM > PerinatalAyurveda forum Re: Babies preconditioned to like formula milk? > > > Hello --- > > Also to consider ---- as adults we have forgotten that wee, little ones are fully present souls in a human body. They FEEL and react to everything in their environment. When mother and/or father experience anything, but especially significant change (ie., mother returning to work) the little one experiences it as well. UNFORTUNATELY, babies are not able to process with the neocortex brain and talk about it. They still experience it, react, and adjust, and the neocortex of the brain IS developing around his or her experience. > > In addition to the phsycial aspect of adjusting to formula at six months, baby is also adjusting to mother's abence, including absence of her breast as safety and nurturing. Baby will experience, without condolence or acknowledgement of feelings, that mother is gone. Every baby will react differently. My own daughter, at age six months, refused to make eye contact with me when I returned home after a three week absence -- resulting in her weaning. She giggled, cooed, and reached for her twelve year old brother. I had so regretted the decision to be gone and was totally miserable for the entire time. I had driven 1800 miles like a lunactic to see her and I was crushed that she would have nothing to do with me. She would only acknowledge her brother -- when I got my face in hers she would turn away from me and look for him and gabber and laugh with delight. She was obviously pissed. Five years later during my intense training in prenatal and birth therapy > (www.castellinotraining.com) she and I healed this break in our attachment/relationship. What could have become a " funny family story " was actually a profoundly significant wounding and an opportunity for healing. > > The way in which a baby reacts to a situation will be a response that began in response to the circumstances of conception and the soul's journey, then the earliest experience of attachment to the uterine wall, then the attachment after birth (always disrupted in modern birth), and in this case, likely, the experience of first feedings --- was formula given during this sensitive period? It's all cummulative. Emotional issues, like addictions to food begin in the primal period. Choosing formula and baby food over the mother's breast ---> choose food and substances over human connection. > > It may feel like the " bad news " , but the " good news " is that we can heal it if we are conscious of it. We women no longer have to carry and hold guilt -- we can transform it and our relationship with our babies. Babies will communicate very directly and clearly when we are willing to observe and listen, and let them have their opinion of the situations. They are very forgiving when they know we are heart-felt in our apology -- and their brain forms NEW connections around that experience. > > Janel Martin-Miranda > www.InfantParentHealing.com > www.BabyKeeper.com/blogspot.com > www.ItstheBabysBirth.com -- coming soon > www.SafeBabyResolution.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Janel: I wonder if there is anything else I can do (until I can afford to take workshops) for my little charge. I have taught her parents to always ask before they pick her up and come around in front of her and say " can I pick you up " . As I walk into her bedroom to change her diaper I talk to her about where we are going and what we are going to do. While she lies on the diaper table I talk to her and then I stop talking and ask her if she wants to speak. And darned if she doesn't go on and on. This is how you fall in love with babies. If we treat them as you described, it is no wonder our teen agers rebel when they are finally able. I often imagine in my head how I would want to give birth if I could do it again and how a native american woman might do it if she was caught in labor alone in the woods. squatting, gravity helping,after birth holding the babe against her breast (which is probably enough in itself to stimulate the pituitary to send out prolactin and oxytocin) and resting for a moment, giving the cord time to quit pulsing and the placenta to separate on it's own, (after the baby has received all of his blood because he wasn't immediately lifted up into the air like hospitals do, especially after C-section) then when they have both looked at each other a bit he shows her he wants to nurse. A thousand things happen in these moments hormonally, physically, spiritually, mentally. It would be wonderful to just be able to watch a woman and baby doing it all on their alone and see what comes instinctively. Thanks for all the info. Vicky vicky york Lactation consultant, postpartum doula postpartum care services Oregon vmyork Work : 5412556368 Vicky, this is a sad commentary, your message was marked as spam for my review! Hence the delay. Beautiful description of the real thing. Have you see the book on unassisted childbirth? The woman who wrote it, I do not remember her name, used to meet ina group of perinatal professionals at my home in Boulder. Another member decided to " do it " with her husband with 4th baby. Unfortunately, althought she was a childbirth educator and all, the baby was born 5 weeks post due date in the caul and post mature cord tissues broke, no extra blood supply while they had difficulty getting baby breathing. The birth was fine, aftermath very traumatic with emergencies, 8 days on oxygen, etc. I think backup is a good plan, but that more mothers need to lean less on the birth professionals and more on their own nature, for sure! Love, Ysha - Janel Martin-Miranda Hi, Vicky --- Yep, once you experience that connection you describe, you can not ever treat babies the same. What a lucky baby!! In doing the healing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I wrote an article for Mothering Magazine last winter. about the trend toward the night doulas, and what I believe that takes away from the family instead of benefiting them. But each article is just a drop in the bucket, you had better get started, or I should say, continue on. Vicky vicky york Lactation consultant, postpartum doula postpartum care services . Oregon vmyork Work : 5412556368 Review me at iKarma Want to spread your own reputation? - Janel Martin-Miranda ayurveda Wednesday, September 27, 2006 11:54 PM PerinatalAyurveda forum Re:consciousness of babies Hi, Vicky --- Yep, once you experience that connection you describe, you can not ever treat babies the same. What a lucky baby!! In doing the healing work we look for resources -- from Peter Levine's trauma work. To heal the traumatic experience one needs to be resourced. Resources are experiences, remembered in the body, of an experience of when one was resourced -- seen, felt, safe, nourished, acknowledged. You are providing that for the little girl you care for. Your description of her interaction with you is sweet, and so right on. It is how babies respond when someone really interacts with them, acknowledges them, supports them. Instead of you, the adult, insisting on you putting her where you believe she should be ( " Sleeping in the swing is bad for her -- she should be in her bed even if she needs to cry it out. " *$(*@*@ & %!! )-- you support her where she wants to be (where she has some resource). IMAGINE if the world did get it and we began to treat babies with upmost respect, respecting their boundaries and needs!! What if nurses, midwives, and doctors got it!! How would they change what they do to babies in labor and birth!? It would change the world. What if only mothers and fathers were the first to touch the baby in the first hours -- no more rough scrubbing in the first seconds of life! What if WHEN and IF it is time and necessary to do ANYTHING, the nurses spoke softly to the baby about what she needs to do and explained it? " Ok, I need to give you a shot for XYZ. I am sorry, it is going to hurt you when I stick it in your leg. May I touch your leg now to show you where I will stick it? " And, wait for the response. " I am going to wait until you let mama and me know you are ready. " It is amazing to watch a newborn respond to respect for his or her body and self. How WOULD it change the world??? Our society is so unconscious-- EVEN for children, it is very common for medical people to just grab and jab an infant and child, or have mother hold down or distract the child while they come at them with injections and instruments. Even for adults -- my second and LAST mammogram was done that way! Thanks for the wishes --- I agree. I have been wanting to do an article for Mothering Magazine for awhile. I have about 100 at least!!I'd love to do a regular column!! Actually, Thomas Verney wrote an article for Mothering magazine either last summer or fall editiion. It very well done, BUT, he was trashed in the letters to the editor the next month. He wrote a nice intro to the prenatal psych and about women clearing out the cobwebs prior to pregnancy and the responses by women were very intense --- they could not embrace how their life during the prenatal period could be issues for their baby. It sounded like she had experienced violent relationship and her midwife assured her it would not hurt the baby. While I appreciate the situation a midwife is in, our collective denial doesn't benefit babies. Here are some other resources for the info. Check out www.myrnamartin.com -- she is in Canada, very close to Washington state. She is one of Ray's certified trainees and she is conducting her own prenatal and birth therapy trainings. Wendy McCarty www.wondrousbeginnng.com co-developed therapy with castellino. She has online courses and she'll be in Minneapolis in two weeks. She founded the graduate program in pre and perinatal psych at www.sbgi.edu. YOu can do a certificate program on line that is very reasonable. The were both students of William Emerson at www.emersonbirthrx.com. There is also a pre and perinatal group. I'll forward the address. I have the SafeBabyResolution up as well. I haven't yet done an introduction, but the resolution is up. I am working with two people -- one in Hawaii and one in Texas -- and the resolution is being introduced in Hawaii. I am working on the website that will support people in every state to get involved. Take care --- Janel ayurveda , <VMYORK wrote: > > Janel. I wish all the world could hear this. I wish you would write an article for Mothering Magazine. The majority of parents still think of babies as helpless, clueless, no memory and barely conscious of what's going on. What a mistake. There is a little 3 month old I take care of and she likes to go to sleep in her swing rather than being rocked. So I put her in it and I sit right next to her in the rocking chair and read and hold her foot while she nods off. But sometimes I glance over at her and I see her studying my face intently, with full intelligence and thoughtful observation. When we lock eyes she breaks into a smile. There is another whole world we don't know about there. Yet. That's why I value the APPPAH conference and books by Chamberlain and Verny. And I wish I could study under Castellini. Vicky > > > vicky york > Lactation consultant, postpartum doula > postpartum care services > . > Oregon > vmyork Work : 5412556368 > > > Review me at iKarma Want to spread your own reputation? > > - > Janel Miranda > ayurveda > Wednesday, September 27, 2006 8:02 AM > PerinatalAyurveda forum Re: Babies preconditioned to like formula milk? > > > Hello --- > > Also to consider ---- as adults we have forgotten that wee, little ones are fully present souls in a human body. They FEEL and react to everything in their environment. When mother and/or father experience anything, but especially significant change (ie., mother returning to work) the little one experiences it as well. UNFORTUNATELY, babies are not able to process with the neocortex brain and talk about it. They still experience it, react, and adjust, and the neocortex of the brain IS developing around his or her experience. > > In addition to the phsycial aspect of adjusting to formula at six months, baby is also adjusting to mother's abence, including absence of her breast as safety and nurturing. Baby will experience, without condolence or acknowledgement of feelings, that mother is gone. Every baby will react differently. My own daughter, at age six months, refused to make eye contact with me when I returned home after a three week absence -- resulting in her weaning. She giggled, cooed, and reached for her twelve year old brother. I had so regretted the decision to be gone and was totally miserable for the entire time. I had driven 1800 miles like a lunactic to see her and I was crushed that she would have nothing to do with me. She would only acknowledge her brother -- when I got my face in hers she would turn away from me and look for him and gabber and laugh with delight. She was obviously pissed. Five years later during my intense training in prenatal and birth therapy > (www.castellinotraining.com) she and I healed this break in our attachment/relationship. What could have become a " funny family story " was actually a profoundly significant wounding and an opportunity for healing. > > The way in which a baby reacts to a situation will be a response that began in response to the circumstances of conception and the soul's journey, then the earliest experience of attachment to the uterine wall, then the attachment after birth (always disrupted in modern birth), and in this case, likely, the experience of first feedings --- was formula given during this sensitive period? It's all cummulative. Emotional issues, like addictions to food begin in the primal period. Choosing formula and baby food over the mother's breast ---> choose food and substances over human connection. > > It may feel like the " bad news " , but the " good news " is that we can heal it if we are conscious of it. We women no longer have to carry and hold guilt -- we can transform it and our relationship with our babies. Babies will communicate very directly and clearly when we are willing to observe and listen, and let them have their opinion of the situations. They are very forgiving when they know we are heart-felt in our apology -- and their brain forms NEW connections around that experience. > > Janel Martin-Miranda > www.InfantParentHealing.com > www.BabyKeeper.com/blogspot.com > www.ItstheBabysBirth.com -- coming soon > www.SafeBabyResolution.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Ysha and Vicki --- great discussion. Vicki -- you are doing great. You are showing the mother something she may not be able to feel yet, and I hope the opportunity arises to teach her more. Ysha -- I'd be curious to hear the baby's perception of how " fine " the birth was!! I am all for women being free to choose how, with whom, and where to give birth to their baby AND to have access to the support they need, especially medical care. Some women are doing the unassisted and their reasons are compelling -- it's very risky. Historically, women have supported women in birth -- rarely were women alone, off in the woods or fields. By the way, one of my annoyances is this frequent experience of someone very medical also saying " weeeeelll, women used to work in the fields, or get off the wagon, give birth and go on. " It's like we have this either/or. The message is either lay down and let us drug you and control your body or fine, then just go do it yourself. A BABY needs to be SAFE, NURTURED and SUPPORTED through every second of gestation, labor, birth, and postpartum. A woman needs this during this time so that she can provide it for her baby. We women are not generally very good at receiving nurturing and support --- and we need to be receptive. A woman's own birth will be a part of her birth as a birthing woman. I am noticing a lot of women are using their baby's birth to resolve their own issues, such as in a VBAC no matter what -- sometimes beyond what is good for the baby. It's about her having that vaginal birth and healing her body ands soul. I am noticing women born by cesarean are doing homebirth. Women have to be VERY AWARE of their inner needs in birth --- women set themselves up for traumatic experiences by not being clear, about not communicating with the woman. One woman recently who wanted to have her baby in the woods almost did. She arrived, crowning, at the birth center and the midwife wasn't there yet --- she almost went into the woods off the parking lot. She said she remembered my words to be clear about what she wanted -- the midwife arrived and they went in the center. Another homebirth mom pushed her baby to be born before the midwife and assistant got there. It was the first birth that an OB was going to attend. He arrived after the birth and she was very torn. Not impressive to him. As she told HER story it was clear that she'd wanted an unassisted birth -- what was the price for the baby?? Babies will be telling their story as the mom and dad are telling theirs. Often they get a breast, bottle, or pacifier in their mouth so the adult can finish THEIR perspective of the story. And, the other side is, that babies are teachers for the parents. I believe babies are participants with the mother, spiritually, emotionally, and mentally, and they choose their parents and their birth for their lessons and contracts with the parents. A woman who desparately wanted a homebirth and got a csection will spend her entire life working this out in relationship with the child. SOMETIMES it is necessary and/or best for the baby to have a cesarean. Vicki --- very interestingly, in my first craniosacral training I began rebirthing my son who was 24 years old!! I birthed that kid about three times!! The last one was in a craniosacral class -- me up on the table, squatting and birthing my baby. I FELT native american and it opened up healing to reconnect with my native american ancestry. The first one was about getting to have him in my arms -- I didn't have total awareness until that moment how wounded we were by the separation. I am STILL amazed at how his birth affected every aspect of my life. Around that time I realized that when I heard stories by women who were raped under the influence of the date rape drug, I was somatically and viscerally feeling the same way about my birth experience. Waking up somewhere else, bruised, torn, different clothes, very distant, removed, fuzzy memories, shame. Knowing something horrible and violating had happened, but no memory, no words. A lot of people now want to know their birth stories and their mother's say they don't remember, or that it was great, fine, normal, etc. Women from the twilight zone and ether years -- women 50+ -- can't tell their stories. They are often still numb -- their babies still feel the separation and it affects them for their entire lives. There are layer and layers and layers to the healing. When I first read Ysha's homepage a few years, I wept for what I didn't have with my son that affected me and my other births and children, and every part of my life. In July while visiting this son, who is now 31, I had the opportunity to have a healing session with him. It was spontanous -- just a mother and baby like moment. No matter what age we are we all yearn for the connection and touch that you, Vicki, are describing with the baby you are caring for. I so believe in what you all are doing --- supporting mothers and babies during this so important time. The ayrvedic post partum care is the best thing I have seen to help mothers during this period. ayurveda , <VMYORK wrote: > > Janel: I wonder if there is anything else I can do (until I can afford to take workshops) for my little charge. I have taught her parents to always ask before they pick her up and come around in front of her and say " can I pick you up " . As I walk into her bedroom to change her diaper I talk to her about where we are going and what we are going to do. While she lies on the diaper table I talk to her and then I stop talking and ask her if she wants to speak. And darned if she doesn't go on and on. This is how you fall in love with babies. If we treat them as you described, it is no wonder our teen agers rebel when they are finally able. > I often imagine in my head how I would want to give birth if I could do it again and how a native american woman might do it if she was caught in labor alone in the woods. squatting, gravity helping,after birth holding the babe against her breast (which is probably enough in itself to stimulate the pituitary to send out prolactin and oxytocin) and resting for a moment, giving the cord time to quit pulsing and the placenta to separate on it's own, (after the baby has received all of his blood because he wasn't immediately lifted up into the air like hospitals do, especially after C-section) then when they have both looked at each other a bit he shows her he wants to nurse. A thousand things happen in these moments hormonally, physically, spiritually, mentally. It would be wonderful to just be able to watch a woman and baby doing it all on their alone and see what comes instinctively. Thanks for all the info. Vicky > > vicky york > Lactation consultant, postpartum doula > postpartum care services > Oregon > vmyork Work : 5412556368 > > Vicky, this is a sad commentary, your message was marked as spam for my review! Hence the delay. Beautiful description of the real thing. Have you see the book on unassisted childbirth? The woman who wrote it, I do not remember her name, used to meet ina group of perinatal professionals at my home in Boulder. Another member decided to " do it " with her husband with 4th baby. Unfortunately, althought she was a childbirth educator and all, the baby was born 5 weeks post due date in the caul and post mature cord tissues broke, no extra blood supply while they had difficulty getting baby breathing. The birth was fine, aftermath very traumatic with emergencies, 8 days on oxygen, etc. I think backup is a good plan, but that more mothers need to lean less on the birth professionals and more on their own nature, for sure! > Love, > Ysha > > - > Janel Martin-Miranda > > Hi, Vicky --- > > Yep, once you experience that connection you describe, you can not > ever treat babies the same. What a lucky baby!! In doing the healing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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