changing the medical models

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicky, Janel and SHirish and MIchael;

Lots of catching up with this wonderful conversation, here's some

thoughts also interspersed below. THis heart of hearts recognition is

so true. I feel we have to have so much compassion for those lost in

the layers of relative life in the effects of Kali Yuga (said to be

the age when the " cow of dharma " stands only on one leg). Without

deep commitment to truth, service, and the support of the enlightened

transcendental spirituality, we all can so easily get lost in talk in

circles. The docs are now paying tens of thousands of dollars I think

it is often over $100,000 in annual liability insurance alone, no

wonder they are so brief with us and afraid to do anything outsied

their party line.

 

You are so right, educating mothers and those working in the field

without so much legal stuff over their heads are in much better

position to do the grass roots work of one by one and community

education and care. And the need for us to stay networked to serve

mothers with info and skills as they need them is big part of

realizing our own connectedness to all that is as well as service.

 

Janel, I finally took the time to look at the birthworks and data

base, what a tremendous collection of information! It is amazing to

me also to see how little postpartum references there are. Oh my, do

we have some research to do. I could design several data research

projects off the top of my head, which I am sure would help thanks to

the wisdom of Ayurveda entirely, guide the much needed research and

answers. if someone was good at putting it into action.

 

It seems the state of affairs is a great mystery to most, folks are

not knowing the right questions. The large data research project on

PP Depression recently passed around, hardly makes a dent into what

really needs to be looked at! Most certainly the prenatal and birth

management issues are SO important, and what a blessing there is so

much work being done there. THousands of people, men and women, such

as Dr. Odent and midwives and yourself and Vicky, doing what you can

that way. How little work on the posptartum side!

 

I feel we as ayurvedists, to use Michael's term, have a responsibility

to work together to support the need from the side of knowledge needed

that ayurvedic postpartum understanding and results from care can

profoundly offer. It will be organizing principles that will help you

too, Janel, know more how to oranize and use the wealth of resources

you have so at your fingertips! and help us all move more out of the

emotions of horror and anger and frustration over what is happening

into making even bigger difference.

 

> What if humanity began to consider the utter importance of care of

> the gestating baby and put our resources there?? ... HOW could the

prenatal period NOT be so critical ... for healing the prenatal

experiences --- ... This is critical for the post-partum care as well.

 

It will be wonderful to talk more with you how this might look

combined with the ayurDoula care. The nature of the postpartum

psychophisiological window, with the kayakalpa depth of transformation

available, speaks alone of many things to how we can heal so many

challenging patterns, both in terms of actual depth of transformation

possible, and in terms of understanding the dynamics of transformation.

 

Combined with the tremendous work of the APPAH members and all, I am

with you Janel, heartily seeing where better place to put attention

for healing our societal problems?! That and of course, deep

spiritual personal practices, which integrate as well and as open the

way, and give the experience to verify the clarity of knowlege needed

and loosen the anguish of attachments to what " should " but is not.

 

> > <shirishbhate@> wrote:

.... progress to understand ourselves better through the path of

> > spirituality, we also start communicating with all matter,

 

The ultimate healing and source of it...

 

All that said, I have to say I committed top priority time focus is

currently on getting a postpartum cookbook, by weeks after the birth,

for this western audience which so much wants variety and so much

needs guidance to avoid the dietary factors SO involved in colic,

breastfeeding, mood disorders, and many seeded physical problems. We

have many recipes guided by our understanding of postpartum ayurveda

already in the cookbook software, and much recipe testing/tweaking and

editing to do to make it more truely suitable, such as clearing the

heavy tofu/soyu milk preferences so many here have, including the

important correct use of garlic, and more ethinic variation recipes.

 

It is my hope, Dr. Bhate, you might be willing for me to include your

discussions, and perhaps help with the review process?

 

It is difficult not to engage my attentions to many other subjects

here! But the cookbook is fun and emotionally uplifting project for

me. I've just finished a major revision with 7 training units (except

the cookbook), and will be making them available to past

students/grads for their updated materials. An email will go out to

those on the list when they are all in PDF files for easier use.

 

> She has a serious childhood heart issue --- and they say she

should not have gotten pregnant and TOLD her she has a 50/50 chance of

.... to me is that there is no referral to someone like me for support

> during the birth, and certainly, after the birth, she will be on

her own, unless she (any woman) is fortunate enough to have someone

like the postpartum doulas here.

 

Janel, we may have someone here who can come do some pospartum care

for her. I am not sure who is available, butyou are just what, 2-3

hours away? Even a few days care couls make such a diffeence.

 

Warm Regards;

Ysha

[Guest guest]

Yes, it seems like progress happens so slowly. But the mothers are where it's

at. If only they could her people like you guys speak. If they were convinced

and had more knowledge to go on they would expect more from their doctors and

then soon they would DEMAND more from their doctors and other health

practitioners as well. But

vicky york

Lactation consultant, postpartum doula

postpartum care services

.

Oregon

vmyork Work : 5412556368

 

 

Review me at iKarma Want to spread your own reputation?

 

-

Martha Oakes

ayurveda

Saturday, September 30, 2006 1:18 PM

PerinatalAyurveda forum Re: changing the medical models

 

 

Hi Vicky, Janel and SHirish and MIchael;

Lots of catching up with this wonderful conversation, here's some

thoughts also interspersed below. THis heart of hearts recognition is

so true. I feel we have to have so much compassion for those lost in

the layers of relative life in the effects of Kali Yuga (said to be

the age when the " cow of dharma " stands only on one leg). Without

deep commitment to truth, service, and the support of the enlightened

transcendental spirituality, we all can so easily get lost in talk in

circles. The docs are now paying tens of thousands of dollars I think

it is often over $100,000 in annual liability insurance alone, no

wonder they are so brief with us and afraid to do anything outsied

their party line.

 

You are so right, educating mothers and those working in the field

without so much legal stuff over their heads are in much better

position to do the grass roots work of one by one and community

education and care. And the need for us to stay networked to serve

mothers with info and skills as they need them is big part of

realizing our own connectedness to all that is as well as service.

 

Janel, I finally took the time to look at the birthworks and data

base, what a tremendous collection of information! It is amazing to

me also to see how little postpartum references there are. Oh my, do

we have some research to do. I could design several data research

projects off the top of my head, which I am sure would help thanks to

the wisdom of Ayurveda entirely, guide the much needed research and

answers. if someone was good at putting it into action.

 

It seems the state of affairs is a great mystery to most, folks are

not knowing the right questions. The large data research project on

PP Depression recently passed around, hardly makes a dent into what

really needs to be looked at! Most certainly the prenatal and birth

management issues are SO important, and what a blessing there is so

much work being done there. THousands of people, men and women, such

as Dr. Odent and midwives and yourself and Vicky, doing what you can

that way. How little work on the posptartum side!

 

I feel we as ayurvedists, to use Michael's term, have a responsibility

to work together to support the need from the side of knowledge needed

that ayurvedic postpartum understanding and results from care can

profoundly offer. It will be organizing principles that will help you

too, Janel, know more how to oranize and use the wealth of resources

you have so at your fingertips! and help us all move more out of the

emotions of horror and anger and frustration over what is happening

into making even bigger difference.

 

> What if humanity began to consider the utter importance of care of

> the gestating baby and put our resources there?? ... HOW could the

prenatal period NOT be so critical ... for healing the prenatal

experiences --- ... This is critical for the post-partum care as well.

 

It will be wonderful to talk more with you how this might look

combined with the ayurDoula care. The nature of the postpartum

psychophisiological window, with the kayakalpa depth of transformation

available, speaks alone of many things to how we can heal so many

challenging patterns, both in terms of actual depth of transformation

possible, and in terms of understanding the dynamics of transformation.

 

Combined with the tremendous work of the APPAH members and all, I am

with you Janel, heartily seeing where better place to put attention

for healing our societal problems?! That and of course, deep

spiritual personal practices, which integrate as well and as open the

way, and give the experience to verify the clarity of knowlege needed

and loosen the anguish of attachments to what " should " but is not.

 

> > <shirishbhate@> wrote:

... progress to understand ourselves better through the path of

> > spirituality, we also start communicating with all matter,

 

The ultimate healing and source of it...

 

All that said, I have to say I committed top priority time focus is

currently on getting a postpartum cookbook, by weeks after the birth,

for this western audience which so much wants variety and so much

needs guidance to avoid the dietary factors SO involved in colic,

breastfeeding, mood disorders, and many seeded physical problems. We

have many recipes guided by our understanding of postpartum ayurveda

already in the cookbook software, and much recipe testing/tweaking and

editing to do to make it more truely suitable, such as clearing the

heavy tofu/soyu milk preferences so many here have, including the

important correct use of garlic, and more ethinic variation recipes.

 

It is my hope, Dr. Bhate, you might be willing for me to include your

discussions, and perhaps help with the review process?

 

It is difficult not to engage my attentions to many other subjects

here! But the cookbook is fun and emotionally uplifting project for

me. I've just finished a major revision with 7 training units (except

the cookbook), and will be making them available to past

students/grads for their updated materials. An email will go out to

those on the list when they are all in PDF files for easier use.

 

> She has a serious childhood heart issue --- and they say she

should not have gotten pregnant and TOLD her she has a 50/50 chance of

... to me is that there is no referral to someone like me for support

> during the birth, and certainly, after the birth, she will be on

her own, unless she (any woman) is fortunate enough to have someone

like the postpartum doulas here.

 

Janel, we may have someone here who can come do some pospartum care

for her. I am not sure who is available, butyou are just what, 2-3

hours away? Even a few days care couls make such a diffeence.

 

Warm Regards;

Ysha

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi, Ysha --- thanks for feedback and additions of the ayurvedic

perspective to it all.

 

BECAUSE my huge, broad vision also includes the importance of the

preconception, conception, and gestation periods where the baby's

system (body, mind, and soul) is actually being developed, might

your cookbook be for the childbearing years?? Yes, I said years. I

believe it takes two years to make a baby.

 

Dr. Bhate and you both know that I have had some serious questions

about how ayurvedic can work, in theory, in the US population of

women when the baby was not built with that nutrition.

 

I wrote the following first and summarized it above.

 

All of this is to suggest and (ask for) an " Ayurvedic Cookbook

for the Child Bearing Years for Dummies " -- a companion to my

book " Building a Brain. "

 

YOU know how much I have wanted to jump into this training,

right? And, I have been resistant. I realize that the information is

just too much for me. Maybe it's because, like you say here, I am

also just too focused on my other things. But, I have the sense of

being just not able to learn so much more different information ---

I am not good at learning foreign language. Even with English I

sometimes have a glitch in getting the right words from my head to

speaking. Maybe it's the menopausal years --

 

I have observed that during pregnancy is not when women open up to

new things and ways. Their brain can't go there. Very rarely, does a

woman make the decision about birth during the pregnancy (WOAH-- I

am just verbalizing something for the first time myself here) to get

a doula or an epidural. She already " knows " what she's going to do

and unconsciously does so and draws to her the people to

participate -- she likely reads books to verify her long-held

beliefs. I know of only one woman who went from nothing but a

csection to traveling to the Farm to birth with Ina May -- and it

was six hour story. Sometimes, a pregnant woman says, oh, my god, I

am pregnant and gets busy and researches everything, but generally

on the track of what they believe, what their relatives and friends

do. They look for support for their decisions.

 

My own challenge is with marketing my practice of supporting the

baby during labor and birth because the human being is conscious. I

This has led me to looking at the bigger, life long picture of the

person. People are entrenched in their beliefs and ways of doing,

being, and eating. Personally, I have had a 25 year mostly

vegetarian, mostly healthy lifestyle, but of course, I have some big

vices. I want to be total organic and go mainly raw, and it's very

hard work. My daughter who gave birth last December never embraced

my way of eating -- her body type is like her Iowa farmer's wife

grandmother, and my daughter loves her meat'n taters 'n gravy. She

eats processed and fast food. My three year-old grandson would chant

her Taco Bell order, and I would raise my eyebrow and say, hmmmm? I

bought your book, but there was no way to introduce the ayurvedic

way.

 

You know I have questioned the effectiveness of ayurvedic in the

general populatoin who eats this way --- based on my belief that the

gestational conditions build the baby for THAT enviornment and may

not be receptive because it can't be. The Primal Research shows that

diabetes, stroke, cardiac are rooted in prental nutrition. A young

child, teenager, or during adulthood can make dietary changes, but

it doesn't really change the structural foundation.

 

So, tying these together with you cookbook --- your cookbook seems

really important to me. This whole ayurvedic work throughout the

lifetime is so important. For the development of your work it seems

really important to gear it towards the entire childbearing

experience which will contribute to a cultural change in many areas.

 

Janel

 

ayurveda , " Martha Oakes "

<AyurDoulas wrote:

>

> Hi Vicky, Janel and SHirish and MIchael;

> Lots of catching up with this wonderful conversation, here's some

> thoughts also interspersed below. THis heart of hearts

recognition is

> so true. I feel we have to have so much compassion for those lost

in

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Janel,

This is in response to your message some time ago, #897, found while

searching archives for something else. Dear One, this big vision has

to be taken in our own style 1 step at a time. Acting on your deep

transformational experiences and tools, you are able to swing a crowd

on courthouse steps drawing media and governmental attentions, it is

awesome. Some of us have been deeply touched in other ways and are

committed to keep other angles growing. My current focus is, to the

extent Ma Nature will continue to support me in this, to create a few

of the tools needed to be more effective with larger numbers in our

work.

 

The Cookbook for the childbearing years is gradually forming for 3 or

4 companion (double) sets of a Handbook/Keys plus cookbook for each

time period. Doing it all in one for Dummies is a great idea

(suggested long ago) but there are too many distinct discussions so

will be another step maybe, I have such a download to do after 10

years of having all my recipes accidentally dumped off my computer

(!!!) that it is a completion I'm driven to do first. If someone else

gets to some of this other stuff, all power to them! Preconception,

Pregnancy and Birth, Postpartum, Baby's First Foods through 2 years.

There is so much to be said, Ayurveda has so much to offer in each of

these unique periods of time. It is intimidating to me now to do thie

huge broad vision all in one. There is research I want to bring

forward and parallel or discuss in ayurvedic terms. the Primal Health

Database is a great resource Im JUST beginning to appreciate among them.

 

I agree with the 2 years to make a baby kind of model. It takes

longer than that to bring this knowledge into the mainstream channels,

though one on one is a different story, eh? Depends on many things,

naturally.

 

Ayurveda serves mothers very well when they are new to it, in my

experience, if I can just get their ear, and then my hands on them and

prepare them a suitable meal. They feel it immediately. It also

communicates very well in simple terms we all are familiar with.

Moist/dry, warm/cold, hard/soft, oily, rough, sweet, sour, salty,

bitter, astringent, pungent....etc are terms we use with clients to

talk about their experience and results of these and other qualities

of their experiences including foods.

 

This is a transcultural logic based upon their own experience, and

from there we can show them more about their childbearing process and

needs that makes perfect self-referral sense to them and generates

trust in the modality, and in us for not trying to DO something to

them. It is fun conversation! Here on the forum we have laid so much

groundwork around ayurvedic principles plus the dynamic of talking

with trained Ayurvedic doctors with their words for things makes us a

little sloppy sometimes using these foreign words without explaining.

THis is why I ask anyone who is confused to say so. We may send you

to a book or a file or post, or address it directly as we can.

 

> Dr. Bhate and you both know that I have had some serious questions

> about how ayurvedic can work, in theory, in the US population of

> women when the baby was not built with that nutrition.

 

This question in last line opens a whole interesting discussion and

very worthwhile topic to address about how direct and even more

important Ayurveda is in this situation, but duty calls for the moment...

 

I hope your precious work is being appreciated in Missouri these days,

and elsewhere too, more.

 

Warm Regards;

Ysha

>

> BECAUSE my huge, broad vision also includes the importance of the

> preconception, conception, and gestation periods where the baby's

> system (body, mind, and soul) is actually being developed, might

> your cookbook be for the childbearing years?? Yes, I said years. I

> believe it takes two years to make a baby.