some ANC guidelines, first three months

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Thite;

Thank you so much for being so devotedly quick in your reply. We

should all talk together on this topic, in my opinion, to gain the

most from the experience of Drs. Thite, Bhate, the midwives, nurses,

and other ANC practitioners on the site. It is certainly my interest

to compare notes and ask questions, to clarify and understand better

whys and principles behind what works best.

 

Some of my thoughts interspersed below indicate both some my own

questions, and my understanding of areas other group members may be

wanting clarification.

 

" cmthite " <cmthite wrote:>

> There is extensive guidance in ayurveda about diet during pregnancy.

> Since growth of the baby depends on what kind of food you eat, you

> should be very careful. According to ayurveda different body parts

> of the baby are manifested in different months.

 

Some information in this regard has been collected in our files, and

it appears the discussion goes to different dhatus (7 tissues) being

under focus of development in different months. In my training, there

was mention of different sensory tissues/organs during months 3-7

which can even be enlivened favorably with the nourishing influence of

parties focusing on that sense - not just dietarily, but could we

expand on the dietary support angles here for dhatus (tissues) as well

as senses and body parts?).

 

IN the interest of taking a little on at a time, shall we focus on

first trimester?

 

Thus, monthwise diet

> is suggested to facilitate proper growth of the baby. But there are

> four foods that are common to all months, they are - shali rice

(this rice is produced within 6 months), ghee, pure butter, and milk.

> These four should be taken during all 9 months of pregnancy.

 

From my limited training I would like to share with other group

members this is likely related to the gentle, what we call sattvic

(promoting happiness, contentment, calming, harmony sweetness, peace

and light in the awareness as well as body) influences of these foods,

alongside the easily digested tissue building need/effect. Lacking

fermentation, these particular foods also offer an underlying

rejuvenative, not degenerative energetic.

 

Do we find folic acid in these dairy products? This is a big nutrient

in western nutrition focus, also found in the leafy greens.

 

These foods also provide fats, protein, and carbs for stable long

burning and steadiness. The other recommended " body type/prakruti and

vikruti " appropriate diet will certainly include suitable vegetables

and fruits.

 

Perhaps other members will add their thoughts and knowledge on key

first trimester nutrition?

>

> I will try to shortly summarize the monthwise diet. (Please correct

> me if I am wrong somewhere.) You will find lot of repetition in the

> diet regimens, but in fact there is a slight difference in each

> recipe, and this must be followed as accurately as possible, because

> this is taken from the original text sushrut samhita. The milk

> mentioned here should be cow milk.

 

For other group members, it should be noted that there are special

properties in cow milk to build what we call " ojas " , the subtlest

product of excellent digestion, which gives strength, vitality, glow,

and guiding intelligence via its messengers the hormones, according to

Ayurvedic teacher in the West, Dr. Claudia Welsch.

>

> All the below-mentioned recipes may be taken in addition to your

> usual diet. Details of the patient's current diet (and available

> options) along with prakruti is taken into consideration before

> suggesting modifications/additions to that.

>

> During first month, cold milk and light diet is advised to purify

> rasa dhatu. Some special herbs for first month are also useful.

>

Rasa dhatu being the first in creation from food to the 7 tissues, 7th

being reproductive. Rasa is translated as plasma, from which include

lymph, menstrual and lactation fluids. Perhaps because the early

stages of embryo are so bathed in rasa dhatu and so rapidly drawing on

it for building blocks? This is just my way of reaching to

understand. With understanding, then comes natural remembering and

correct choices. Light diet would include, in my thinking, vegetable

and mung bean or perhaps for some, poultry based soups, fruit and

vegetable juices, and where does the western salad fit in? Most here

think salad when they think of light diet.

 

You may be aware that in the West, Pregnant and Postpartum mothers are

now advised to avoid milk! The use of milk in the west, as we have

discussed some on the group already, is however quite contrary to

Ayurvedic principles some of us have learned and practice, for correct

use of milk, and it is my personal as well as client experience that

western qualities and uses of milk do give negative experience.

 

One of these " no nos " is cold temperature milk. Another doctor has

shared that both first and second trimester the milk is taken cold.

This is surprise to limited Ayurvedic education of many of us, and we

of course would like to understand more! We find it does tend to

create mucous, though not for everyone.

 

I must admit to personally, on rare occasion, cold milk in small

amount (separate from meal, organic unhomogenized) seems even

medicinal to high pitta.

 

Is this the value during first and second month of pregnancy? Is there

some inflammatory response in the newly pregnant body, or is it simply

body's desire to rapidly purify the interface between Ma Shakti within

this body and residue physiology which does not support her power for

Life, or/and something else?

 

> During second month, herbs with sweet taste should be used, e.g.

> licorice, etc.

 

We understand that miscarriage as well as nausea is quite often

implicating high pitta, and that the sweet, bitter, and tonic herbs

such as shatavari and licorice (the latter being on avoid list by

western herbalists) these herbs help reduce pitta each in their own ways.

 

And that these sweet herbs tend to both soothe in times of transition,

but nourish hormonal function and building (is this

" anabolic " ?)functions, of course moving into a major body

reorganization and focus with pregnancy.

 

> During third month milk with honey and ghee, and shali rice with

milk is advised with some herbs.

 

The additional focus on ghee and honey...? Such powerful sattvic and

nourishing, honey also helps burn fat and phlegm. The milk is now

taken warm/prepared ayurvedically with boiling? Which dhatus, body

parts and senses are now developmentally in focus and how do these

items nourish them?

 

There are things the midwives and western docs focus on for fetal

growth through the months, is there not? With nutritional as well as

vitamin/mineral items? How can we look at these things together with

the ayurvedic recs thru the months?

 

Warm Regards for All;

Ysha

[Guest guest]

During the first trimester development of Dhatus and sense organs is

definitely an important. According to darshan sciences, at the time of

conception when the Jeevatma (soul) enters the fertilized ovum, it is

accompanied with 11 indriyas (essence of 5 sensory and 5 motor organs +

mind). At this stage, sense organs are present in subtle form. Seats of

these sense organs start manifesting themselves very slowly. During first

trimester, a very small defect may lead to major disability in the

future. Sattvik

diet /behavior/atmosphere is therefore a must during this period. (I have

no idea whether these foods contain folic acid though). But including

appropriate fruits and vegetables seems right. Light diet really means

easy-to-digest diet. For some people salads may not be easy to

digest. Cereals,

moong, some vegetables, and veg/nonveg soups are indeed light.

 

 

 

Cold milk I think should be boiled and cooled (otherwise it would not be

'light') and/or treated with cold-property herbs. Any 'change' is function

of normal pitta/agni mahabhotta, be it digestion of food or changes in

tissue due to aging. Fetus of course is undergoing a very rapid changes. But

I think it is not just the pitta or nausea due to acidity, but the

nourishing property of milk. Also for nourishment, sweet tasting foods are

good.

 

 

Regarding vitamins and iron, I think proper digestion, absorption, and

assimilation of usual food should lead to gaining of all essential

nutrients.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Thite

 

THis of course makes sense, but not having studied it before, brings

questions towards best support of the mother, and being able to

discuss the whys (theory) with both clients and prospective clients

(and students!).

 

> During the first trimester development of Dhatus (7 tissues) and

sense organs is definitely an important. According to darshan

sciences (what is this?), at the time of conception when the Jeevatma

(soul) enters the fertilized ovum, it is accompanied with 11 indriyas

(essence of 5 sensory and 5 motor organs and mind).

 

First thought is, what kosha (layer/s of the subtle body)do these

subtle senses and organs of action and mind engage, and which

foods/substances enhance maternal support/enlivenment and harmony at

this level. Sattwic/Satvic (promoting purity, harmony, clarity,

peace, light, happiness) influences, among other information, flows

naturally with this train of thought. Explains right there the value

of the foods you mentioned, if they are pure of quality.

 

> At this stage, sense organs are present in subtle form. Seats of

these sense organs start manifesting themselves very slowly. During

first trimester, a very small defect may lead to major disability in

the future.

 

So, it sounds like the subtle body is laying the blueprints for not

just short term physical developments of the foetus? And that certain

toxins which effect subtle body health whether mental, emotional, or

physical would be particularly at issue? (We have easy understanding

on emotional and mental, but physical...what are key toxins for

mothers to avoid in this way influencing subtle body, any input

welcome?)

 

It has long been my opinion that in the mother, some subtle body

impurities/sanskaras, (fears, conditionings, attitudes, stress

imprints etc) related to subtle body factors of the soul coming in may

have to do with severe maternal pitta and nausea reactions, since the

nausea is often so difficult to control and pitta a common reaction to

resistance to things out of our control, influences we don't feel we

should allow into our aura or physical body(correct or not; in this

case from Baby's soul qualities, is this possible, sort of we could

understand on homeopathic/subtle level?). Is this possible, and do

you have some idea to what extent it may be a factor?

 

>Sattvik diet /behavior/atmosphere is therefore a must during this

period.

 

(I would like request those wondering what some of this terminology is

to ask the question, and others to help clarify sometimes.)

 

>(I have no idea whether these foods contain folic acid though).

 

It is my understanding folic acid nourishes many chemical functions in

the body as well as brain/nervous system development/health. The

herbs recommended by the ancients/your experience in Ayurveda, which

ones are they? are they for this?

 

But including appropriate fruits and vegetables seems right. Light

diet really means easy-to-digest diet. For some people salads may not

be easy to digest. Cereals, moong, some vegetables, and veg/nonveg

soups are indeed light.

>

Freshly cooked and prepared by a happy cook, as they say!

Non-pesticided, grown on healthy soil, prepared with good quality

herbs, spices, fats, etc.

 

Yes, many in this country have a hard time understanding why salads

are for many difficult to digest. Personaly very difficult for me,

unfortunately, unless prepared as a well seasoned raw vegetable like

cilantro, carrot, parseley etc(with fresh ginger or garlic, and lime

juice and salt) concentrate in chutney/relish form.(another topic?)

 

> Cold milk I think should be boiled and cooled (otherwise it would

not be 'light') and/or treated with cold-property herbs.

 

In this case, depends on the individual constitution/imbalances

(prakruti/vikruti) and season which herbs...Dr. THite, you are

thinking cullinaries such as ginger, clove, cardamom, pepper, nutmeg,

fennel, anise, etc?

 

Any 'change' is function of normal pitta/agni mahabhotta, be it

digestion of food or changes in tissue due to aging. Fetus of course

is undergoing a very rapid changes.

 

Not clear what you are saying here. We are taught, by the way, to

think of vata first when we hear the word " change " ! What is mahabhotta?

 

> I think it is not just the pitta or nausea due to acidity, but the

> nourishing property of milk. Also for nourishment, sweet tasting

foods are good.

>

You are saying nausea is due to acidity...recent MD discussion was how

even stress, as well as acid forming foods, creates acidity in the

body. And that acid creates mucous, he was saying. There is the

thought that mucous in the stomach may create nausea, though I don't

draw the connection otherwise...

 

For the non-initiated into Ayurveda, sweet tasting includes healthy

" sweets " but also rice, dairy, carrots, chrysanthemum, fennel, even

meats having sweet taste basis. As explained in beautiful description

about the influence of the 6 tastes in the Yoga of Herbs (points by

memory summary brief), sweet taste is made of earth and water

elements, it is grounding, cool, builds tissue***, gives contentment

and happiness. IN excess (well known list and more), in deficiency,

another very interesting list that western natural health fans will do

well to study. (along with the new research on the 5 types of

essential sugars, involved also in healthy protein absorption across

the cell walls).

 

> Regarding vitamins and iron, I think proper digestion, absorption,

and assimilation of usual food should lead to gaining of all essential

> nutrients.

 

I once heard a Dr. Ramakant Mishra here in the US give an interesting

lecture on " Nutrition by Taste Alone " . INcluded in the discussion was

how sour taste gives vitamin C, and bitter gives B vitamins. But

these simple words you so humbly stated are so key, as AYurveda

explains, to looking into why people have problems. " proper

digestion, absorption, and assimilation " . This in itself big topics of

discussion, small pieces of which we have addressed here and there on

the forum only. Central to what is read in the Ayurvedic 3 part/7

layer pulses telling which tissue and which system is in/out of

balance in which way, not just according to dosha but also

 

agni/digestion (which is about body enzyme functions so much leaned on

with pills in the west now, it is a little step in right direction and

sometimes a big step in people's health as a result!)

 

absorption and assimilation...aren't these also related to body's

agni, as well as issues like shrota (body channels, big and small)

obstructions and other impurities, stressors, chemistries from

mental/emotional and physical

 

The gift of someone well trained in Ayurveda such as our honored

vaidyas on our forum, lies not only in the devotion to their clients

which of course has to be there to be successful in the work, but I

believe in the skilled assessment of what the individual needs on all

these levels, and knowledge of which food/herb/cleansing or nourishing

practices and lifestyle factors will be key in the process and in what

priority and order.

 

Those of us with little or no training have the task of learning from

them. It is interesting to me how few words Dr. Thite offered, my

initial reaction which was, but we need more theory and eloaboration

here to be able to explain to those curious to learn more and with

contrary opinions from other respected health practitioners...and then

what happened? The foundational theory of Ayurveda keeps giving tools

to learn more as well as sometimes elaborate on what we didn't know we

knew! For me, based on many basic principles easy to see played out

in my daily life as well as in postpartum client care.

 

WArm Regards;

Ysha

[Guest guest]

Darshan sciences are ancient sciences that evolved after the Vedic period. The

purpose of these sciences is to interpret the Vedas. It is useful to know

basics of these sciences in order to better understand the ancient Indian

literature such as Ayurveda

 

 

 

There are six Darshan Shastras called the six schools of philosophy. They

are (1) Poorv Mimansa by Sage Jaimini, (2) Nyay by Sage Gautum (3)

Vaisheshik by sage Kanad, (4) Sankhya by Bhagwan Kapil, (5) Yog by Sage

Patanjali and (6) Uttar Mimansa (Brahm Sutra) by Bhagwan Ved Vyas. All the

six Darshan Shastras are in sutra form.

 

 

 

You have really given great detailed explanation on the words that were not

explained by me. I certainly agree with most of it. I agree with you that

nausea may be due to mucus. I must admit that I have some limitation in

translation and in exactly conveying the meaning of certain words. Satvik

is, as you have mentioned, those things promoting purity, harmony, clarity,

peace, light, happiness. As mentioned in bhagvadgeeta, foods that are

predominantly liquid, snighdha (this is translated as oily, but snighdha is

a property really perceptible to eyes, not necessarily oily or fatty), foods

promoting stability (sthira), and hridya (pleasant) are satvik in

nature. Opposite

to this, you may call as toxic to pregnant mother, eg., too hot, too cold –

in property, or foods that are not freshly cooked. You may find a list of

foods under the heading of viruddha-aahara those are to be avoided in any

circumstances such as milk+salt and milk + fruits(with some exceptions as

discussed earlier on this forum) Ginger, clove, cardamom, pepper, nutmeg,

fennel, anise are generally hot in nature (pepper especially so) and though

not completely restricted but you must use some discretion while using these

especially in the first trimester.

 

 

 

Mahabhootas are 5 elements that exist in universe: prithvi (earth) agni

(heat) vayu (air-or the universal power that moves everything) jala

(water)and aakash (space or ether).

 

 

 

Pitta consists of agni mahabhoota brings about the change in many ways. It

is pitta that digests food (changes property of the food to make it suitable

for human body). On a subtler level, there is a pitta in our eyes that is

called as alochak pitta. It changes the gross perception of image and light

and changes it to finer understanding of it and helps convey that through

mind to the soul.

 

 

 

I know this is becoming rather out of the scope of our subject, but I am

just writing whatever is coming to mind.

 

 

 

 

On 8/22/07, Ysha Oakes <AyurDoulas wrote:

>

> Dear Dr. Thite

>

> THis of course makes sense, but not having studied it before, brings

> questions towards best support of the mother, and being able to

> discuss the whys (theory) with both clients and prospective clients

> (and students!).

>

> > During the first trimester development of Dhatus (7 tissues) and

> sense organs is definitely an important. According to darshan

> sciences (what is this?), at the time of conception when the Jeevatma

> (soul) enters the fertilized ovum, it is accompanied with 11 indriyas

> (essence of 5 sensory and 5 motor organs and mind).

>

> First thought is, what kosha (layer/s of the subtle body)do these

> subtle senses and organs of action and mind engage, and which

> foods/substances enhance maternal support/enlivenment and harmony at

> this level. Sattwic/Satvic (promoting purity, harmony, clarity,

> peace, light, happiness) influences, among other information, flows

> naturally with this train of thought. Explains right there the value

> of the foods you mentioned, if they are pure of quality.

>

> > At this stage, sense organs are present in subtle form. Seats of

> these sense organs start manifesting themselves very slowly. During

> first trimester, a very small defect may lead to major disability in

> the future.

>

> So, it sounds like the subtle body is laying the blueprints for not

> just short term physical developments of the foetus? And that certain

> toxins which effect subtle body health whether mental, emotional, or

> physical would be particularly at issue? (We have easy understanding

> on emotional and mental, but physical...what are key toxins for

> mothers to avoid in this way influencing subtle body, any input

> welcome?)

>

> It has long been my opinion that in the mother, some subtle body

> impurities/sanskaras, (fears, conditionings, attitudes, stress

> imprints etc) related to subtle body factors of the soul coming in may

> have to do with severe maternal pitta and nausea reactions, since the

> nausea is often so difficult to control and pitta a common reaction to

> resistance to things out of our control, influences we don't feel we

> should allow into our aura or physical body(correct or not; in this

> case from Baby's soul qualities, is this possible, sort of we could

> understand on homeopathic/subtle level?). Is this possible, and do

> you have some idea to what extent it may be a factor?

>

> >Sattvik diet /behavior/atmosphere is therefore a must during this

> period.

>

> (I would like request those wondering what some of this terminology is

> to ask the question, and others to help clarify sometimes.)

>

> >(I have no idea whether these foods contain folic acid though).

>

> It is my understanding folic acid nourishes many chemical functions in

> the body as well as brain/nervous system development/health. The

> herbs recommended by the ancients/your experience in Ayurveda, which

> ones are they? are they for this?

>

> But including appropriate fruits and vegetables seems right. Light

> diet really means easy-to-digest diet. For some people salads may not

> be easy to digest. Cereals, moong, some vegetables, and veg/nonveg

> soups are indeed light.

> >

> Freshly cooked and prepared by a happy cook, as they say!

> Non-pesticided, grown on healthy soil, prepared with good quality

> herbs, spices, fats, etc.

>

> Yes, many in this country have a hard time understanding why salads

> are for many difficult to digest. Personaly very difficult for me,

> unfortunately, unless prepared as a well seasoned raw vegetable like

> cilantro, carrot, parseley etc(with fresh ginger or garlic, and lime

> juice and salt) concentrate in chutney/relish form.(another topic?)

>

> > Cold milk I think should be boiled and cooled (otherwise it would

> not be 'light') and/or treated with cold-property herbs.

>

> In this case, depends on the individual constitution/imbalances

> (prakruti/vikruti) and season which herbs...Dr. THite, you are

> thinking cullinaries such as ginger, clove, cardamom, pepper, nutmeg,

> fennel, anise, etc?

>

> Any 'change' is function of normal pitta/agni mahabhotta, be it

> digestion of food or changes in tissue due to aging. Fetus of course

> is undergoing a very rapid changes.

>

> Not clear what you are saying here. We are taught, by the way, to

> think of vata first when we hear the word " change " ! What is mahabhotta?

>

> > I think it is not just the pitta or nausea due to acidity, but the

> > nourishing property of milk. Also for nourishment, sweet tasting

> foods are good.

> >

> You are saying nausea is due to acidity...recent MD discussion was how

> even stress, as well as acid forming foods, creates acidity in the

> body. And that acid creates mucous, he was saying. There is the

> thought that mucous in the stomach may create nausea, though I don't

> draw the connection otherwise...

>

> For the non-initiated into Ayurveda, sweet tasting includes healthy

> " sweets " but also rice, dairy, carrots, chrysanthemum, fennel, even

> meats having sweet taste basis. As explained in beautiful description

> about the influence of the 6 tastes in the Yoga of Herbs (points by

> memory summary brief), sweet taste is made of earth and water

> elements, it is grounding, cool, builds tissue***, gives contentment

> and happiness. IN excess (well known list and more), in deficiency,

> another very interesting list that western natural health fans will do

> well to study. (along with the new research on the 5 types of

> essential sugars, involved also in healthy protein absorption across

> the cell walls).

>

> > Regarding vitamins and iron, I think proper digestion, absorption,

> and assimilation of usual food should lead to gaining of all essential

> > nutrients.

>

> I once heard a Dr. Ramakant Mishra here in the US give an interesting

> lecture on " Nutrition by Taste Alone " . INcluded in the discussion was

> how sour taste gives vitamin C, and bitter gives B vitamins. But

> these simple words you so humbly stated are so key, as AYurveda

> explains, to looking into why people have problems. " proper

> digestion, absorption, and assimilation " . This in itself big topics of

> discussion, small pieces of which we have addressed here and there on

> the forum only. Central to what is read in the Ayurvedic 3 part/7

> layer pulses telling which tissue and which system is in/out of

> balance in which way, not just according to dosha but also

>

> agni/digestion (which is about body enzyme functions so much leaned on

> with pills in the west now, it is a little step in right direction and

> sometimes a big step in people's health as a result!)

>

> absorption and assimilation...aren't these also related to body's

> agni, as well as issues like shrota (body channels, big and small)

> obstructions and other impurities, stressors, chemistries from

> mental/emotional and physical

>

> The gift of someone well trained in Ayurveda such as our honored

> vaidyas on our forum, lies not only in the devotion to their clients

> which of course has to be there to be successful in the work, but I

> believe in the skilled assessment of what the individual needs on all

> these levels, and knowledge of which food/herb/cleansing or nourishing

> practices and lifestyle factors will be key in the process and in what

> priority and order.

>

> Those of us with little or no training have the task of learning from

> them. It is interesting to me how few words Dr. Thite offered, my

> initial reaction which was, but we need more theory and eloaboration

> here to be able to explain to those curious to learn more and with

> contrary opinions from other respected health practitioners...and then

> what happened? The foundational theory of Ayurveda keeps giving tools

> to learn more as well as sometimes elaborate on what we didn't know we

> knew! For me, based on many basic principles easy to see played out

> in my daily life as well as in postpartum client care.

>

> WArm Regards;

> Ysha

>

>

>