Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 HI I only know about Cuba. I have spent a lot of time there doing the equivalent of CE courses for MD's. There's not much in Sicko or Salud! (the new film specifically on Cuban Health system) on Chinese Medicine but it's an integral part of the system . In the 90's I would go to Cuba and say I was " Acupunctura " to people on the street and they would totally know what I did. You have to be an MD there to practice but every MD has an introduction to TCM , as well as Homeopathy, Bach Flowers and Cuban Flower Essences as part of their medical training. You learn 50-100 of the basic points as part of A & P. You study Cuban Herbal Medicine as part of your Pharmacology class. Then you do a quarter of " Natural and Traditional Medicine " . After you graduate and serve 1-2 years of Family Practice, you choose your residency. One of the standard residency options is either a 1 or 3 year residency in NTM. There are 4-5 Med. schools on the island that offer that program. There are NTM clinics in most of the hospitals and about a dozen clinics that only offer NTM including one that is an inpatient hospital. The most common TCM practice I saw there was Auricular Therapy. Until you get to the residency program it's pretty much a standard cook book acupuncture. But some of the residents are well trained. Some of them are sent to China, Vietnam and Korea to study. They sterilize and reuse acupuncture needles, but boy are they dull. They don't have access to anything from the US (books, needles, supplies) because the US government won't allow them to be sold. (the " great " US Embargo, of course you can by coca cola there) They have the equivalent of the first yr TCM textbook that we use here, but not much beyond that. Of course that depends on how hooked in to the tourist scene and vacationers that bring supplies and textbooks down. For instance the TCM inpatient hospital library was 1-2 sections of metal shelves for all the books an NTM. By the way it's legal for a full time US acupuncturist to go to Cuba without government approval as long as you are doing " research on NTM " and do a presentation or write a paper on it when you come back to the US. Shad Reinstein MAc. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 On Sunday 01 July 2007 22:17, Sami Rank LAc wrote: > just saw sicko today. a must see. Hi Sami! Actually, nothing that Michael Moore is involved in can be trusted. He takes a LOT of liberties with the facts, to the point where it isn't worth seeing. Ok, if he could get some pretty girl movie stars, and some really great dramatic scenes - but then it wouldn't have anything to do with the topic. Come to think of it, since it is all faked, it doesn't anyway. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 With all due respect Pete -- What are you talking about? The film is a documentary. The film is based on his perspective. You say he can't be trusted (LOL). I suppose you think the honest policy makers that support our whole class healthcare system are more trustworthy. DJR --- Pete Theisen <petetheisen wrote: > On Sunday 01 July 2007 22:17, Sami Rank LAc wrote: > > just saw sicko today. a must see. > > Hi Sami! > > Actually, nothing that Michael Moore is involved in > can be trusted. He takes a > LOT of liberties with the facts, to the point where > it isn't worth seeing. > > Ok, if he could get some pretty girl movie stars, > and some really great > dramatic scenes - but then it wouldn't have anything > to do with the topic. > Come to think of it, since it is all faked, it > doesn't anyway. > -- > Regards, > > Pete > http://www.pete-theisen.com/ > ______________________________\ ____Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV. http://tv./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Hi Pete - CNN fact-checked the film and only found a couple of minor discrepancies. When you say Moore plays fast and loose with the facts, what exactly are you referencing? I haven't seen the film yet, but I have heard from people whose opinions I respect that the film presents a balanced look at American health care - with the only drawback being the fact that OM isn't specifically mentioned as a viable alternative. Kim Blankenship, L.Ac. " David J. Razo " <ozar14 wrote: With all due respect Pete -- What are you talking about? The film is a documentary. The film is based on his perspective. You say he can't be trusted (LOL). I suppose you think the honest policy makers that support our whole class healthcare system are more trustworthy. DJR --- Pete Theisen <petetheisen wrote: > On Sunday 01 July 2007 22:17, Sami Rank LAc wrote: > > just saw sicko today. a must see. > > Hi Sami! > > Actually, nothing that Michael Moore is involved in > can be trusted. He takes a > LOT of liberties with the facts, to the point where > it isn't worth seeing. > > Ok, if he could get some pretty girl movie stars, > and some really great > dramatic scenes - but then it wouldn't have anything > to do with the topic. > Come to think of it, since it is all faked, it > doesn't anyway. > -- > Regards, > > Pete > http://www.pete-theisen.com/ > ________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV. http://tv./ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Right on!, DJR. Maria Kuriloff NYS _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of David J. Razo Monday, July 02, 2007 5:48 PM Chinese Medicine Re: sicko With all due respect Pete -- What are you talking about? The film is a documentary. The film is based on his perspective. You say he can't be trusted (LOL). I suppose you think the honest policy makers that support our whole class healthcare system are more trustworthy. DJR --- Pete Theisen <petetheisen@ <petetheisen%40verizon.net> verizon.net> wrote: > On Sunday 01 July 2007 22:17, Sami Rank LAc wrote: > > just saw sicko today. a must see. > > Hi Sami! > > Actually, nothing that Michael Moore is involved in > can be trusted. He takes a > LOT of liberties with the facts, to the point where > it isn't worth seeing. > > Ok, if he could get some pretty girl movie stars, > and some really great > dramatic scenes - but then it wouldn't have anything > to do with the topic. > Come to think of it, since it is all faked, it > doesn't anyway. > -- > Regards, > > Pete > http://www.pete- <http://www.pete-theisen.com/> theisen.com/ > ________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV. http://tv.. <http://tv./> com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 On Monday 02 July 2007 17:48, David J. Razo wrote: > With all due respect Pete -- What are you talking > about? The film is a documentary. Hi David! No. Michael Moore films are political satires disguised as documentaries. It is a most insidious genre, a type of deceit that people are not expecting. I can't say any more about it on this list other than our health policy makers are not as bad as MM would have us believe. In another light, he is capable of painting us with the same brush. http://tinyurl.com/3xl684 http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=129 & fArticleId=2423560 -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 In that case, we'd have to consider the source(s). LOL! Here's another perspective: http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2101547,00.html Lisa Pete Theisen <petetheisen wrote: On Monday 02 July 2007 17:48, David J. Razo wrote: > With all due respect Pete -- What are you talking > about? The film is a documentary. Hi David! No. Michael Moore films are political satires disguised as documentaries. It is a most insidious genre, a type of deceit that people are not expecting. I can't say any more about it on this list other than our health policy makers are not as bad as MM would have us believe. In another light, he is capable of painting us with the same brush. http://tinyurl.com/3xl684 http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=129 & fArticleId=2423560 -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Get the free toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 At 11:23 PM 7/2/2007, Pete wrote: >No. Michael Moore films are political satires disguised as documentaries. It >is a most insidious genre, a type of deceit that people are not expecting. > >I can't say any more about it on this list other than our health >policy makers >are not as bad as MM would have us believe. In another light, he is capable >of painting us with the same brush. > >http://tinyurl.com/3xl684 >http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=129 & fArticleId=2423560 Your messages and URLs inject partisan politics into an otherwise neutral discussion. Take it elsewhere! -- Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/884 - Release 7/2/2007 3:35 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Just wondering why MM would paint us with the same brush. Are we similar to managed care? Are we making hard for ALL people to get health care? --- < wrote: > At 11:23 PM 7/2/2007, Pete wrote: > > >No. Michael Moore films are political satires > disguised as documentaries. It > >is a most insidious genre, a type of deceit that > people are not expecting. > > > >I can't say any more about it on this list other > than our health > >policy makers > >are not as bad as MM would have us believe. In > another light, he is capable > >of painting us with the same brush. > > > >http://tinyurl.com/3xl684 > >http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=129 & fArticleId=2423560 > > Your messages and URLs inject partisan politics into > an otherwise > neutral discussion. Take it elsewhere! > > > -- > > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/884 - > Release 7/2/2007 3:35 PM > > > ______________________________\ ____ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Travel. http://travel./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 On Tuesday 03 July 2007 02:20, wrote: > At 11:23 PM 7/2/2007, Pete wrote: > >No. Michael Moore films are political satires disguised as documentaries. > > It is a most insidious genre, a type of deceit that people are not > > expecting. > > > >I can't say any more about it on this list other than our health > >policy makers are not as bad as MM would have us believe. In another light, >>he is capable of painting us with the same brush. > > > >http://tinyurl.com/3xl684 > >http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=129 & fArticleId=2423560 > > Your messages and URLs inject partisan politics into an otherwise > neutral discussion. Take it elsewhere! Hi Dr, Chris! Everything about Michael Moore is partisan politics, " neutral " indeed! The only way for it not to be partisan politics is for it to not be about Michael Moore. We ourselves could be his next target, and he doesn't play fair. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 can we please get back on topic? I was simply asking about tcm practitioners in socialized countries that may have to " compete " with free medicine from their western md, and how much are people willing to pay given that they get free care otherwise. Thank you for one reply from denmark Any more? by the way, even if M.Moore lied about anything in the movie, can it be denied that our US healthcare system fails people over and over, and puts them into bankruptcy, etc.? Can you imagine what someone with diabetes who was denied new health coverage by his insurance co. would have to pay out of pocket to manage his health? that is the point Sicko makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I by no means want to bash WM. I believe there is a place for everything. On the other hand insurance companies need to be held accountable for the crimes they commit. It is a shame that everything seems to revolve around money and not helping our brothers and sisters. Yes MM does have streaccccccch the truth and yes he does misinform the public to a certain extent. I was hoping this movie would bring to the surface that there are some serious problems that need to be addressed. Oh well I guess fear and ignorance wins again. people should educate themselves so the might be able to prevent getting cought up in the system. Sorry if this seems harsh. I will leave this topic alone. Thanks Tom --- Pete Theisen <petetheisen wrote: > On Tuesday 03 July 2007 07:48, tom malinsky wrote: > > Just wondering why MM would paint us with the same > > brush. Are we similar to managed care? Are we > making > > hard for ALL people to get health care? > > Hi Dr. Tom! > > I am trying to make two points: 1) Michael Moore is > political, partisanly so > AND 2) he can't be trusted. > > He more than exaggerates to push his point of view. > If we were to market the > way he edits we would be brought before our state > boards on ethics charges. > > A man like that CAN do anything. There is no law > against lying in politics, > but there is a law about lying in medicine, > particularly about lying in > alternative medicine. MM can lie about us, or WM > practice, and it is > protected by the First Amendment. MM does lie, WM is > not generally as bad as > MM presents his targets. > > To get to your other points, are we similar to > managed care etc. - well, some > of us are choosing parts of that model and to that > extent, yes, some of us > are hurting access. No, I won't name names. > -- > Regards, > > Pete > http://www.pete-theisen.com/ > ______________________________\ ____ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by " Green Rating " at Autos' Green Center. http://autos./green_center/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 On Tuesday 03 July 2007 07:48, tom malinsky wrote: > Just wondering why MM would paint us with the same > brush. Are we similar to managed care? Are we making > hard for ALL people to get health care? Hi Dr. Tom! I am trying to make two points: 1) Michael Moore is political, partisanly so AND 2) he can't be trusted. He more than exaggerates to push his point of view. If we were to market the way he edits we would be brought before our state boards on ethics charges. A man like that CAN do anything. There is no law against lying in politics, but there is a law about lying in medicine, particularly about lying in alternative medicine. MM can lie about us, or WM practice, and it is protected by the First Amendment. MM does lie, WM is not generally as bad as MM presents his targets. To get to your other points, are we similar to managed care etc. - well, some of us are choosing parts of that model and to that extent, yes, some of us are hurting access. No, I won't name names. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Ok, here is a link to a CNN article on sicko: http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/06/28/sicko.fact.check/index.html here is the brief: " Our team investigated some of the claims put forth in his film. We found that his numbers were mostly right, but his arguments could use a little more context. As we dug deep to uncover the numbers, we found surprisingly few inaccuracies in the film. In fact, most pundits or health-care experts we spoke to spent more time on errors of omission rather than disputing the actual claims in the film. " enough said sami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 On Tuesday 03 July 2007 09:59, Sami Rank LAc wrote: > Ok, here is a link to a CNN article on sicko: > http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/06/28/sicko.fact.check/index.html > > here is the brief: > " Our team investigated some of the claims put forth in his film. We > found that his numbers were mostly right, but his arguments could use > a little more context. As we dug deep to uncover the numbers, we found > surprisingly few inaccuracies in the film. In fact, most pundits or > health-care experts we spoke to spent more time on errors of omission > rather than disputing the actual claims in the film. " > > enough said Hi Sami! Perhaps he is reforming his ethics, then, would be good if he did. He IS talented. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 On Tuesday 03 July 2007 01:32, Lisa wrote: > In that case, we'd have to consider the source(s). LOL! Here's another > perspective: http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2101547,00.html Hi Lisa! Can't get to it, error message. What did it say? > No. Michael Moore films are political satires disguised as documentaries. > It is a most insidious genre, a type of deceit that people are not > expecting. > > I can't say any more about it on this list other than our health policy > makers are not as bad as MM would have us believe. In another light, he is > capable of painting us with the same brush. > > http://tinyurl.com/3xl684 > http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=129 & fArticleId=2423560 -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 On Tuesday 03 July 2007 08:27, Sami Rank LAc wrote: > can we please get back on topic? I was simply asking about tcm > practitioners in socialized countries that may have to " compete " with > free medicine from their western md, and how much are people willing > to pay given that they get free care otherwise. Thank you for one > reply from denmark Any more? Hi Sami! Well, there's no denying that there is a great dysfunction, and free care here in the states is almost all western. When I retired I offered to treat patients FOR FREE at the senior center and at various churches, and I was turned down. So free was too much. Personally, I think most of the problem is the insurance model, but the western docs and drug companies have more to say about that than we do. The politicians, D or R, unfortunately, do whatever their biggest contributors want. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 On Monday 02 July 2007 18:06, kim blankenship wrote: > CNN fact-checked the film and only found a couple of minor discrepancies. > When you say Moore plays fast and loose with the facts, what exactly are > you referencing? Hi Kim! Maybe you didn't read the links? http://tinyurl.com/3xl684 http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=129 & fArticleId=2423560 I have been a member of the NRA all my adult life, over 40 years. In Bowling for Columbine MM went to great lengths to present the NRA in an unfavorable light. It ethically amounted to lying, especially the way he tried to put words into Charlton Heston's mouth. He did things like presenting events in a reversed chronological order, leaving out essential details - this sort of thing. What if someone showed you in a film treating a patient supposedly before you went to school? -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 It was a general review on the movie. If you go to www.guardian.co.uk and put " sicko " in the search, you'll find there a lot of current articles with varying opinions on Michael Moore and the movie. I'm going to see it tomorrow with someone who grew up in France--one of the countries in ranking in the top 10 in healthcare (US is number 37). I look forward to comparing our viewpoints and personal experiences tomorrow, and discussing with anyone else who has seen the documentary, as well. Lisa Pete Theisen <petetheisen wrote: On Tuesday 03 July 2007 01:32, Lisa wrote: > In that case, we'd have to consider the source(s). LOL! Here's another > perspective: http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2101547,00.html Hi Lisa! Can't get to it, error message. What did it say? > No. Michael Moore films are political satires disguised as documentaries. > It is a most insidious genre, a type of deceit that people are not > expecting. > > I can't say any more about it on this list other than our health policy > makers are not as bad as MM would have us believe. In another light, he is > capable of painting us with the same brush. > > http://tinyurl.com/3xl684 > http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=129 & fArticleId=2423560 -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 On Tuesday 03 July 2007 15:15, Lisa wrote: > It was a general review on the movie. If you go to www.guardian.co.uk and > put " sicko " in the search, you'll find there a lot of current articles with > varying opinions on Michael Moore and the movie. I'm going to see it > tomorrow with someone who grew up in France--one of the countries in > ranking in the top 10 in healthcare (US is number 37). I look forward to > comparing our viewpoints and personal experiences tomorrow, and discussing > with anyone else who has seen the documentary, as well. Hi Lisa! Well, I will most likely go to see it myself, seeing that the CNN reviewers are saying it is not COMPLETELY faked, as some of his last shows were. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 enough said, but CNN - I consider the source, also. They aren't exactly unbiased. Lynn --- Sami Rank LAc <herbsnacupnxr wrote: " Our team investigated some of the claims put forth in his film. We found that his numbers were mostly right, but his arguments could use a little more context. As we dug deep to uncover the numbers, we found surprisingly few inaccuracies in the film. In fact, most pundits or health-care experts we spoke to spent more time on errors of omission rather than disputing the actual claims in the> film. " > enough said > sami J. Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac., 503.474.8876 Acupuncture House Calls! PO Box 14 Sheridan, OR 97378 ______________________________\ ____ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search./shortcuts/#loc_weather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 " Your messages and URLs inject partisan politics into an otherwise neutral discussion. Take it elsewhere! " Actually, starting a discussion about, in part, a Michael Moore movie precludes a neutral discussion. He doesn't attempt neutrality. Lynn J. Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac., 503.474.8876 Acupuncture House Calls! PO Box 14 Sheridan, OR 97378 ______________________________\ ____ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Travel to find your fit. http://farechase./promo-generic-14795097 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 yes CNN is totally right wing - J. Lynn Detamore Chinese Medicine Wednesday, July 04, 2007 6:05 PM Re: sicko enough said, but CNN - I consider the source, also. They aren't exactly unbiased. Lynn --- Sami Rank LAc <herbsnacupnxr wrote: " Our team investigated some of the claims put forth in his film. We found that his numbers were mostly right, but his arguments could use a little more context. As we dug deep to uncover the numbers, we found surprisingly few inaccuracies in the film. In fact, most pundits or health-care experts we spoke to spent more time on errors of omission rather than disputing the actual claims in the> film. " > enough said > sami J. Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac., 503.474.8876 Acupuncture House Calls! PO Box 14 Sheridan, OR 97378 ________ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search./shortcuts/#loc_weather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 On Wednesday 04 July 2007 22:29, Alon Marcus wrote: > yes CNN is totally right wing Hi Dr. Alon! Funny that you should say that, I was thinking just the opposite. Oh, sigh, maybe it's just me. > enough said, but CNN - I consider the source, also. They aren't exactly >unbiased. > " Our team investigated some of the claims put forth in his film. We found >that his numbers were mostly right, but his arguments could use a little >more context. As we dug deep to uncover the numbers, we found surprisingly >few inaccuracies in the film. In fact, most pundits or health-care experts >we spoke to spent more time on errors of omission rather than disputing the >actual claims in the film. " -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 ill second that opinion, pete. lynn --- Chinese Medicine <petetheisen wrote: > On Wednesday 04 July 2007 22:29, Alon Marcus wrote: > > yes CNN is totally right wing > > Hi Dr. Alon! > > Funny that you should say that, I was thinking just the opposite. Oh, sigh, > maybe it's just me. > > > enough said, but CNN - I consider the source, also. They aren't exactly > >unbiased. > > > " Our team investigated some of the claims put forth in his film. We found > >that his numbers were mostly right, but his arguments could use a little > >more context. As we dug deep to uncover the numbers, we found surprisingly > >few inaccuracies in the film. In fact, most pundits or health-care experts > >we spoke to spent more time on errors of omission rather than disputing the > >actual claims in the film. " > -- > Regards, > > Pete > http://www.pete-theisen.com/ Live Like No One Else! Lynn Detamore, MS, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac.Licensed and Board Certified AcupuncturistPO Box 14, Sheridan, OR 97378503.474.8876lynndetamore ______________________________\ ____ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Autos. http://autos./new_cars.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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