To soy, or not to soy?!?

[Guest guest]

I asked the soybean board and they said that there was enough sites/info (pro &

con) out there that they would just report the studies and other info, and leave

the arguing to the other sources. Other " forward " thinking doctors that I get

newsletters from have said that the isolated concentrates should be watched, but

there is too much positive to ignore. I heard an interview with Dr. Joseph

Mercola, and he said basically that everything in this Asian diet thing is

exaggerated to soy's side, as they eat alot of iodine rich foods (to counter the

thyroid inhibiting effect), eat smaller quantities of soy food (except for the

miso, tempeh, and other fermented foods - which don't, supposedly have the same

effect), fish, and lots of fruit and veggies. Even in Alternative Medicine

magazine, there were two articles of opposite opinion. So, that's a good start

Valerie, but maybe I was looking to find a collective inventory of experiences,

to see how (if at

all) people were affected with potential long term use, and, if not, what (if

anything) was unique about their lives/diet to dispel these accusations.

 

Thanks,

Steve

-----------------------------

Steve,

 

Thing is aside from the genetically-engineered issue,

I at least always hope that when it says non-GMO, it

actually is.....but I too have read that that is no

guarantee. Aside from this there is a lot of negative

press on this, including that soy blocks mineral

absorption. Of some particular concern is that

isoflavone supplements or soy protein act as potent

anti-thyroid agents and are capable of suppressing

thyroid function, and causing or worsening

hypothyroidism.

 

It's another one of those things you have to research,

and then decide for yourself, but for me there is just

so much negative stuff on this I hear that I would be

very PROUD to say I never touch the stuff. Except

that I occasionally do, actually. I don't eat meat or

poultry and I no longer eat cheese (or almost never),

so it is an occasional thing with me, but I would

" like " to say I don't eat it.

 

Doc Ian is someone who won't touch soy either, but in

his case I " believe " it is mostly because of the GE

issue and the fact that it can't be guaranteed. I

don't remember where he lies on the other issues.

 

If you do a search in the message archives, you

" should " be able to come up with quite a few thoughts

on this subject. It's definitely been discussed here

before.

 

Also, here are some good links:

http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

http://www.rheumatic.org/soy.htm

http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa083099.htm

 

Valerie

[Guest guest]

Speaking of Dr. Mercola, that's a great place to do

soy searching:

http://www.google.com/custom?cof=AH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3A5cdb2968a482194d%3B & domai\

ns=www.mercola.com & sitesearch=www.mercola.com & q=soy

http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/

 

Must admit that was pretty clever of you to call the

soy board, and it's interesting they took that

approach. As far as looking for personal experiences

from people affected with potential long term use,

I'm sorry I can't tell you that. It is true that my

thyroid isn't what it should be, but I also know that

I don't know what the actual cause is....could be soy,

but I think it could be other things too. Or all

things.

 

Happy hunting,

Valerie

 

--- Steve <bigbird3969 wrote:

> I asked the soybean board and they said that there

> was enough sites/info (pro & con) out there that

> they would just report the studies and other info,

> and leave the arguing to the other sources. Other

> " forward " thinking doctors that I get newsletters

> from have said that the isolated concentrates should

> be watched, but there is too much positive to

> ignore. I heard an interview with Dr. Joseph

> Mercola, and he said basically that everything in

> this Asian diet thing is exaggerated to soy's side,

> as they eat alot of iodine rich foods (to counter

> the thyroid inhibiting effect), eat smaller

> quantities of soy food (except for the miso, tempeh,

> and other fermented foods - which don't, supposedly

> have the same effect), fish, and lots of fruit and

> veggies. Even in Alternative Medicine magazine,

> there were two articles of opposite opinion. So,

> that's a good start Valerie, but maybe I was looking

> to find a collective inventory of experiences, to

> see how (if at

> all) people were affected with potential long term

> use, and, if not, what (if anything) was unique

> about their lives/diet to dispel these accusations.

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Steve,

Sorry if I rained on your parade - so to speak - as the soy topic is

one that should actually NOT be ignored.

Much of today's prepared foods contain two ingredients - soy and

corn syrup - two of the most genetically engineered foods in the Western

World..

Both of these are used to replace other more traditional

ingredients.

Anyone eating prepared foods is consuming vast quantities of both

during a year.

Soy is not confined to the vegetarian dishes .

Valeries article on the effect that soy has on the thyroid is

fascinating.

Since the thyroid is the main gland for controling hormones and

since america has become a nation of over fat bodies with hormonal

problems unlike anything in the past, that was an interesting

comment........

Personally, I endeavour to not eat anything that has soy or corn

products in its list of ingredients.............Love Penny

[Guest guest]

....and for that reason, do you suggest fermented soy over regular, or just a

" blanket' moderation?

 

Steve

-----------------------------

I am inclined to agree. I too read the reports of the " damage " that soy does.

Working in a health food store, we of course get a LOT of questions. One of

the biggest things we see are people who a few years ago didn't know what a soy

bean was that are now including it in everything they eat. Most end up with

digestive and other problems. In my experience, the key IS digestion. Since

we eat so little raw food (soy should NOT be one) we don't seem to have enough

digestive enzymes to handle the load and process things the way they should be.

Then we run into a variety of ills, even if we don't eat soy. I personally

believe that the average person will do fine with moderate amounts of soy

provided they use digestive enzymes. As to the GE questions - always go with

certified. Being the cynic that I am, however, I believe that the majority of

our food sources are GE or contaminated with GE and that this is just one more

thing the

" powers that be " have managed to keep relatively hidden from us. IMO,

Nancy

 

herbal remedies, Jennie <silvermist2@e...> wrote:

> Taken in moderation and balanced out by other nutritious foods, I believe soy

is a good thing.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I am inclined to agree. I too read the reports of the " damage " that

soy does. Working in a health food store, we of course get a LOT of

questions. One of the biggest things we see are people who a few

years ago didn't know what a soy bean was that are now including it

in everything they eat. Most end up with digestive and other

problems. In my experience, the key IS digestion. Since we eat so

little raw food (soy should NOT be one) we don't seem to have enough

digestive enzymes to handle the load and process things the way they

should be. Then we run into a variety of ills, even if we don't eat

soy. I personally believe that the average person will do fine with

moderate amounts of soy provided they use digestive enzymes. As to

the GE questions - always go with certified. Being the cynic that I

am, however, I believe that the majority of our food sources are GE

or contaminated with GE and that this is just one more thing

the " powers that be " have managed to keep relatively hidden from us.

IMO,

Nancy

 

herbal remedies, Jennie <silvermist2@e...> wrote:

> Taken in moderation and balanced out by other nutritious foods, I

believe soy is a good thing.

[Guest guest]

NEVER MIND... I found it in the one that I just started (I'm on pg. 13, and the

article is on 58)!

 

Thanks, and disregard!

Steve

-----------------------------

Do you know which issue, as I take that magazine, but as with all of my

books/magazines (I've got to many), I haven't finished most of them.

 

Steve

-----------------------------

It's my opinion that seafood (even if it includes seaweed) is not enough to

balance the soy. We need to eat lots of raw organic fruits and vegetables in

order to have the enzymes needed for complete digestion.

There was an article on sea food for balancing the thyroid in the last " Herbs

for Health " magazine that was very interesting, but I left it at the office and

can't remember right off hand what all they suggested putting with the sea food

other than wild and whole grain rice. It seems like there was an interesting

salad that went with it.

Jennie

 

Steve wrote:

 

> Thanks; Around here people eat fish for health, but I'm not sure if the

thyroid is receiving much protection, for as much seafood that is available

around here (mid-Atlantic area), tuna, farm-raised Atlantic salmon, flounder,

tilapia, catfish (mostly farm-raised), and then perch, spot, trout are the norm

around here. Of course you have the shrimp " gulpers " , but though they are high

in iodine, there are other reasons that they are frowned upon (from biblical to

health reasons - perse Dr. Mercola in the same interview mentioned earlier); so

is seafood enough of a recourse to counteract soy, or do we start eating veggie

sushi??

>

> Steve

> -----------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

It's my opinion that seafood (even if it includes seaweed) is not enough to

balance the soy. We need to eat lots of raw organic fruits and vegetables in

order to have the enzymes needed for complete digestion.

There was an article on sea food for balancing the thyroid in the last " Herbs

for Health " magazine that was very interesting, but I left it at the office and

can't remember right off hand what all they suggested putting with the sea food

other than wild and whole grain rice. It seems like there was an interesting

salad that went with it.

Jennie

 

Steve wrote:

 

> Thanks; Around here people eat fish for health, but I'm not sure if the

thyroid is receiving much protection, for as much seafood that is available

around here (mid-Atlantic area), tuna, farm-raised Atlantic salmon, flounder,

tilapia, catfish (mostly farm-raised), and then perch, spot, trout are the norm

around here. Of course you have the shrimp " gulpers " , but though they are high

in iodine, there are other reasons that they are frowned upon (from biblical to

health reasons - perse Dr. Mercola in the same interview mentioned earlier); so

is seafood enough of a recourse to counteract soy, or do we start eating veggie

sushi??

>

> Steve

> -----------------------------

[Guest guest]

It was the last one so I guess September. It has a picture of James Duke on the

front.

I know what you mean. I scan them all and think I'll " read " them later, and

never do.

Jennie

 

Steve wrote:

 

> Do you know which issue, as I take that magazine, but as with all of my

books/magazines (I've got to many), I haven't finished most of them.

>

> Steve

> -----------------------------

> It's my opinion that seafood (even if it includes seaweed) is not enough to

balance the soy. We need to eat lots of raw organic fruits and vegetables in

order to have the enzymes needed for complete digestion.

> There was an article on sea food for balancing the thyroid in the last " Herbs

for Health " magazine that was very interesting, but I left it at the office and

can't remember right off hand what all they suggested putting with the sea food

other than wild and whole grain rice. It seems like there was an interesting

salad that went with it.

> Jennie

>

> Steve wrote:

>

> > Thanks; Around here people eat fish for health, but I'm not sure if the

thyroid is receiving much protection, for as much seafood that is available

around here (mid-Atlantic area), tuna, farm-raised Atlantic salmon, flounder,

tilapia, catfish (mostly farm-raised), and then perch, spot, trout are the norm

around here. Of course you have the shrimp " gulpers " , but though they are high

in iodine, there are other reasons that they are frowned upon (from biblical to

health reasons - perse Dr. Mercola in the same interview mentioned earlier); so

is seafood enough of a recourse to counteract soy, or do we start eating veggie

sushi??

> >

> > Steve

> > -----------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

No, I pretty much tell people what I said on list. We have those who

come in and are positively rabid one way or the other so there is not

much point discussing it with them. When someone asks, however, what

is below is what I tell them. I do find that since becoming

primarily vegetarian about 6 months ago, I am getting much better at

utilizing the soy but still can't do tons of it nor do I want to.

Perhaps it is easier for me because beans were a staple in my diet

growing up. I like beans and feel the best when I eat beans, whole

grains, fruits and veges and toss in small amounts of soy daily. I

can definitely tell the difference when I stray from that diet, both

in how I feel and my weight. Eating out is nearly always a

challange, and then there are the occasional cravings for junk food,

dairy, etc. I really haven't missed meat, though. I do eat fish or

chicken 1-2 a month, usually when out. I had gotten to where I just

couldn't seem to stomach the meat and had little desire for it.

 

It is important to listen to what our body is telling us.

Nancy

 

herbal remedies, " Steve " <bigbird3969@m...> wrote:

> ...and for that reason, do you suggest fermented soy over regular,

or just a " blanket' moderation?

>

> Steve

> -----------------------------

> I am inclined to agree. I too read the reports of the " damage "

that soy does. Working in a health food store, we of course get a

LOT of questions. One of the biggest things we see are people who a

few years ago didn't know what a soy bean was that are now including

it in everything they eat. Most end up with digestive and other

problems. In my experience, the key IS digestion. Since we eat so

little raw food (soy should NOT be one) we don't seem to have enough

digestive enzymes to handle the load and process things the way they

should be. Then we run into a variety of ills, even if we don't eat

soy. I personally believe that the average person will do fine with

moderate amounts of soy provided they use digestive enzymes. As to

the GE questions - always go with certified. Being the cynic that I

am, however, I believe that the majority of our food sources are GE

or contaminated with GE and that this is just one more thing the

> " powers that be " have managed to keep relatively hidden from us.

IMO,

> Nancy

[Guest guest]

I saw this data in an issue of Nexus magazine a couple of years back. I

think that genetically, lots of Asians are more able to digest soy in

general. This would also apply to a lot of Slavic people since they had a

great infusion of Asian genes in the 1200's. But people of European and

African ancestry are prone to having less ability to digest soy, and so

should take it only sparingly. The general rule here seems to be that after

2000 years of relative isolation from a food, a tribe loses some ability to

digest that food. Another reason why studying Anthropology is essential in

nutritional consulting.

 

Fermenting soy does make it easier to digest in most cases. And,

particularly with Tempeh, it dramatically improves the flavor. In fact, i

have taken Tempeh to a few potluck barbeques out here and have gotten rave

reviews for it. Seems like its flavor is very complementary with most

barbeque sauces.

 

Definitely we should be eating more seaweeds. As for fish, unfortunately

most fish are getting contaminated with mercury and other heavy metals if

they're too close to shore. So some authorities are advising caution.

Since there is a lot of overfishing these days, being conservative with fish

is a good idea anyway.

 

At 06:49 PM 9/1/01 EDT, you wrote:

>What do ya'll think of the assertion that soy is the product of an

overstocked, powerful lobbyist with nothing to do but slop the hogs/cattle,

so they push these studies to let you think that soy is the wonder food,

when in actuality, we overconsume (as usual - compared to the Asians), may

be damaging our thyroids by not eating more seaweeds and fish, and that the

fish, veggies, and FERMENTED soy (ie. miso, tempeh) is what makes the Asians

less prone to our diseases?

>

>Steve

>

-- Michael Riversong **

Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer **

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