Guest guest Posted August 31, 2001 Report Share Posted August 31, 2001 C,Mon Penny, do your thing. Start that Moderating monster in you. Denise O'Connor [RNMSW]Monday, 3 September 2001 10:01herbal remedies Subject: Re: [herbal remedies] discipline Punishment and discipline are not the same. Punishment does not teach;discipline does. The idea is to teach your child by example and by theconsequences of their behaviour. I would never want a child to get themessage that it is okay to hit another person. Frequently, parents strikeout in anger which is a release for them and causes anger in the recipientof the violence. I don't believe that "it hurts me more than it hurts you"for a second. There are numerous statements in the bible that should not be takenliterally. In addition, there are bibles that have been rewritten andsubstantially changed; for example, "Peace to men of goodwill" has beenchanged by some to "Peace to all men". Not the same at all. Perhaps there is a lack of understanding by some of what disciplinemeans. It does not mean getting away with something, quite the opposite.In my experience, many parents are too lazy and just yell and smack theirchildren and then wonder why they can't do a thing with them. You wouldthink with several months of pregnancy that people would read a few"manuals" to understand child development. I'm sorry that you were hit and that you were made a participant. Inever had a hand laid on me. Not surprising how that has impacted ourbeliefs :-) Denise> Hi Denise,>> I personally think it is a lack of punishment for bad deeds, that iscausing> so much of the crime now. If there is no punishment, then why stop?Should> we scrap the Bible's advice, "Spare the rod and spoil the child?" Most> parents who punish their children will tell you, it hurts them more thanthe> child, so doubt feeling good enters into it. BTW, my Mother used switches> and we had to go pick them!>> Perhaps a way to decide if no punishment is better, compare the crimerates> now, to back then?>> Jean BaughFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2001 Report Share Posted September 2, 2001 Just like with any other " treatment " , different people need different " modalities " ; the one that has never had ANY discipline, may need a few knots jerked in his posterior, but ocerall, as I said, you need discipline, or tough love, along with being there for them, and sharing quality time; not run amok with a strap of leather, but keep them on the right track from day one, and you won't need alot of heavy handedness. Steve ----------------------------- Punishment makes the punisher feel good and the punished feeling angry. If my husband, friend, boss hit me it would be a crime but some people think it is ok. to whack a person who is smaller. I am not saying that a light tap on the bottom to make a point on exceptional occasions is harmful. OTOH, discipline leads to learning. That's what it means. My preference is to teach and not hurt, not teach a child when they are an adult that it is ok to hit a smaller person. We have much too much violence already in this country. Denise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2001 Report Share Posted September 2, 2001 As with politics and religion, you are not going to get a discussion going w/o disagreement, but people should be able to mention any " ALTERNATIVE " modality as long as it helps the problem inquired about, and can be used in conjunction with herbs. People should stay somewhat mainstreamed in the idea of this site, but shouldn't be intimidated to speak! The bottom line is discipline is necessary, lack of it leads to an unruly " mob " , and noone condones abuse of any kind; especially child! In Health, Steve ----------------------------- Oldglory, This is an herbal list not a bible list. We could go on for months about bible quotes which you have a skewed understanding of. I doubt you want to hear my POV just like I don't want to hear yours, so I think this subject should be dropped and we stick to herbs. LA --- oldglory <oldglory wrote: > Hi Denise, > > I personally think it is a lack of punishment for > bad deeds, that is causing > so much of the crime now. If there is no > punishment, then why stop? Should > we scrap the Bible's advice, " Spare the rod and > spoil the child? " Most > parents who punish their children will tell you, it > hurts them more than the > child, so doubt feeling good enters into it. BTW, > my Mother used switches > and we had to go pick them! > > Perhaps a way to decide if no punishment is better, > compare the crime rates > now, to back then? > > Jean Baugh > ************ > > > Punishment makes the punisher feel good and > the punished feeling > angry. > > If my husband, friend, boss hit me it would be a > crime but some people > think > > it is ok. to whack a person who is smaller. I am > not saying that a light > > tap on the bottom to make a point on exceptional > occasions is harmful. > > OTOH, discipline leads to learning. That's > what it means. > > My preference is to teach and not hurt, not > teach a child when they > are > > an adult that it is ok to hit a smaller person. > We have much too much > > violence already in this country. > > Denise > > > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Messenger http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2001 Report Share Posted September 2, 2001 Punishment makes the punisher feel good and the punished feeling angry. If my husband, friend, boss hit me it would be a crime but some people think it is ok. to whack a person who is smaller. I am not saying that a light tap on the bottom to make a point on exceptional occasions is harmful. OTOH, discipline leads to learning. That's what it means. My preference is to teach and not hurt, not teach a child when they are an adult that it is ok to hit a smaller person. We have much too much violence already in this country. Denise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2001 Report Share Posted September 3, 2001 Oldglory, This is an herbal list not a bible list. We could go on for months about bible quotes which you have a skewed understanding of. I doubt you want to hear my POV just like I don't want to hear yours, so I think this subject should be dropped and we stick to herbs. LA --- oldglory <oldglory wrote: > Hi Denise, > > I personally think it is a lack of punishment for > bad deeds, that is causing > so much of the crime now. If there is no > punishment, then why stop? Should > we scrap the Bible's advice, " Spare the rod and > spoil the child? " Most > parents who punish their children will tell you, it > hurts them more than the > child, so doubt feeling good enters into it. BTW, > my Mother used switches > and we had to go pick them! > > Perhaps a way to decide if no punishment is better, > compare the crime rates > now, to back then? > > Jean Baugh > ************ > > > Punishment makes the punisher feel good and > the punished feeling > angry. > > If my husband, friend, boss hit me it would be a > crime but some people > think > > it is ok. to whack a person who is smaller. I am > not saying that a light > > tap on the bottom to make a point on exceptional > occasions is harmful. > > OTOH, discipline leads to learning. That's > what it means. > > My preference is to teach and not hurt, not > teach a child when they > are > > an adult that it is ok to hit a smaller person. > We have much too much > > violence already in this country. > > Denise > > > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Messenger http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2001 Report Share Posted September 3, 2001 Punishment and discipline are not the same. Punishment does not teach; discipline does. The idea is to teach your child by example and by the consequences of their behaviour. I would never want a child to get the message that it is okay to hit another person. Frequently, parents strike out in anger which is a release for them and causes anger in the recipient of the violence. I don't believe that " it hurts me more than it hurts you " for a second. There are numerous statements in the bible that should not be taken literally. In addition, there are bibles that have been rewritten and substantially changed; for example, " Peace to men of goodwill " has been changed by some to " Peace to all men " . Not the same at all. Perhaps there is a lack of understanding by some of what discipline means. It does not mean getting away with something, quite the opposite. In my experience, many parents are too lazy and just yell and smack their children and then wonder why they can't do a thing with them. You would think with several months of pregnancy that people would read a few " manuals " to understand child development. I'm sorry that you were hit and that you were made a participant. I never had a hand laid on me. Not surprising how that has impacted our beliefs :-) Denise > Hi Denise, > > I personally think it is a lack of punishment for bad deeds, that is causing > so much of the crime now. If there is no punishment, then why stop? Should > we scrap the Bible's advice, " Spare the rod and spoil the child? " Most > parents who punish their children will tell you, it hurts them more than the > child, so doubt feeling good enters into it. BTW, my Mother used switches > and we had to go pick them! > > Perhaps a way to decide if no punishment is better, compare the crime rates > now, to back then? > > Jean Baugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2001 Report Share Posted September 3, 2001 I disagree, a good smack on the bottom when the kid knows what he did wrong, ends it right then and there. BTW , my son is bigger than me, he still bends over and receives punishment for the misdeed. We will discuss what he did wrong, decide how many 'whacks' and more times than not, he has said he was sorry AFTER it was over. He is much better disciplined than before we started this. Patty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2001 Report Share Posted September 3, 2001 I agree with with some of what you say but, as I wrote, so many people don't parent. I don't know what in the world they think. Parenting is hard work, not that it can't be wonderful, too. Denise > Just like with any other " treatment " , different people need different " modalities " ; the one that has never had ANY discipline, may need a few knots jerked in his posterior, but ocerall, as I said, you need discipline, or tough love, along with being there for them, and sharing quality time; not run amok with a strap of leather, but keep them on the right track from day one, and you won't need alot of heavy handedness. > > Steve > ----------------------------- > Punishment makes the punisher feel good and the punished feeling angry. If my husband, friend, boss hit me it would be a crime but some people think it is ok. to whack a person who is smaller. I am not saying that a light tap on the bottom to make a point on exceptional occasions is harmful. > OTOH, discipline leads to learning. That's what it means. > My preference is to teach and not hurt, not teach a child when they are an adult that it is ok to hit a smaller person. We have much too much violence already in this country. > Denise > > > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to prescribe for your own health. > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. > > Dr. Ian Shillington > Doctor of Naturopathy > Dr.IanShillington > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2001 Report Share Posted September 3, 2001 This list is NOT alternative remedies, it's HERBAL remedies. --- Steve <bigbird3969 wrote: > As with politics and religion, you are not going to > get a discussion going w/o disagreement, but people > should be able to mention any " ALTERNATIVE " modality > as long as it helps the problem inquired about, and > can be used in conjunction with herbs. > > People should stay somewhat mainstreamed in the idea > of this site, but shouldn't be intimidated to speak! > > The bottom line is discipline is necessary, lack of > it leads to an unruly " mob " , and noone condones > abuse of any kind; especially child! > > In Health, > Steve > ----------------------------- > Oldglory, > > This is an herbal list not a bible list. We could go > on for months about bible quotes which you have a > skewed understanding of. I doubt you want to hear my > POV just like I don't want to hear yours, so I think > this subject should be dropped and we stick to > herbs. > > LA > > > --- oldglory <oldglory wrote: > > Hi Denise, > > > > I personally think it is a lack of punishment for > > bad deeds, that is causing > > so much of the crime now. If there is no > > punishment, then why stop? Should > > we scrap the Bible's advice, " Spare the rod and > > spoil the child? " Most > > parents who punish their children will tell you, > it > > hurts them more than the > > child, so doubt feeling good enters into it. BTW, > > my Mother used switches > > and we had to go pick them! > > > > Perhaps a way to decide if no punishment is > better, > > compare the crime rates > > now, to back then? > > > > Jean Baugh > > ************ > > > > > Punishment makes the punisher feel good and > > the punished feeling > > angry. > > > If my husband, friend, boss hit me it would be a > > crime but some people > > think > > > it is ok. to whack a person who is smaller. I > am > > not saying that a light > > > tap on the bottom to make a point on exceptional > > occasions is harmful. > > > OTOH, discipline leads to learning. That's > > what it means. > > > My preference is to teach and not hurt, not > > teach a child when they > > are > > > an adult that it is ok to hit a smaller person. > > We have much too much > > > violence already in this country. > > > Denise > > > > > > > > > > > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant > messaging with Messenger http://im. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2001 Report Share Posted September 3, 2001 Amen Jean! Things were alot better then than now. I know there are parents who go too far. but most do not go far enough. Now, if you touch a child you're in trouble....and then the child ends up in trouble later on in life. Suzi oldglory <oldglory wrote: Hi Denise,I personally think it is a lack of punishment for bad deeds, that is causingso much of the crime now. If there is no punishment, then why stop? Shouldwe scrap the Bible's advice, "Spare the rod and spoil the child?" Mostparents who punish their children will tell you, it hurts them more than thechild, so doubt feeling good enters into it. BTW, my Mother used switchesand we had to go pick them!Perhaps a way to decide if no punishment is better, compare the crime ratesnow, to back then?Jean Baugh************> Punishment makes the punisher feel good and the punished feelingangry.> If my husband, friend, boss hit me it would be a crime but some peoplethink> it is ok. to whack a person who is smaller. I am not saying that a light> tap on the bottom to make a point on exceptional occasions is harmful.> OTOH, discipline leads to learning. That's what it means.> My preference is to teach and not hurt, not teach a child when theyare> an adult that it is ok to hit a smaller person. We have much too much> violence already in this country.> Denise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2001 Report Share Posted September 3, 2001 With a one year old in the house, we've been discussing this a lot. His desire to play with something is often directly proportional to its breakability. We have agreed, and i think this fits with the general sense of the Bible, that no punishment should ever be administered when a parent is angry. That alone takes care of most abuse. When looking at that whole thing about a " rod " , we've determined that this was some kind of shepherd's tool used for guidance. This means it should not be used to hurt, but to guide. The biggest hurt comes not from the physical impact, but from the humiliation. After a while, a child will develop a sense of right and wrong, and know most of the time what's what. Right now, we just use a huge NO, sometimes backed up by picking him up and taking him elsewhere, for discipline. This is working pretty well. On a couple occasions, Rose has done very mild spankings, and that's also worked -- but she will only do that if he's been told NO several times and has continued doing whatever it is he's not supposed to do. For whatever reason, he's rarely disobeyed me -- perhaps that's because when i say NO it kind of fills up the house and spills out into the surrounding area. Actually there are medicinal properties to the red or white willow that's traditionally been cut and used for switches. At 05:47 PM 9/2/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Denise, > >I personally think it is a lack of punishment for bad deeds, that is causing >so much of the crime now. If there is no punishment, then why stop? Should >we scrap the Bible's advice, " Spare the rod and spoil the child? " Most >parents who punish their children will tell you, it hurts them more than the >child, so doubt feeling good enters into it. BTW, my Mother used switches >and we had to go pick them! > >Perhaps a way to decide if no punishment is better, compare the crime rates >now, to back then? > >Jean Baugh >************ > -- Michael Riversong ** Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer ** RivEdu ** Phone: (307)635-0900 FAX (413)691-0399 http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.