Fresh Whole & Pure

August 18, 2002

When you go into a health food store seeking to purchase an herbal

remedy, do you give the same attention in chooseing an herbal remedy

as you may do so in choosing the fresh produce you buy? When one buys

fresh produce the goal is to find what's fresh, whole, and pure,

right? When shopping for an herbal remedy you have a choice: fresh,

whole and pure OR not fresh, not wholesome, and unpure. The more

something is processed the less wholesome, fresh, and pure it is. Do

you realize that many of the herbs on the market today are processed

to the point of having little vitality to them? Well it's true. I

won't name companies but I can tell you that you may know what you are

getting in a bottle of herbs but you don't know what you are missing.

When you pick up let's say, a bottle of encapsulated herbs, don't you

want to know what exactly your getting? I sure do. I've discovered

some interesting facts about the industry. Some companies actually

take whole herbs (and they may not be organic and not harvested when

the species is in season), dry them out with the sun, air, or on a

heated belt, cut 'em up and put them in a container where solvents are

then poured on the herb to extract one or two marker compounds out of

the herb, and then made into a tablet form (with fillers). Thus, the

herb is no longer an herb but a pharmaceutical product. When I say

solvents I am speaking of chemicals like acetone, hexane, ethyl, and

methanol. Does this sound wholesome, fresh and pure to you? It's not

and the consumer is being fooled to think so. Dried herbs alone would

be alright if the quality was good. Try fresh herbs alone or fresh

freeze-dried herbs.

August 19, 2002

All I can say is that your claim is probably true, but not absolute. You can

research and find a company or brand that puts out a quality product. Fresh

herbs are good, depending on the herb you are taking. I just happen to believe

that there are also certain herbs which have to be standardized. As you said,

you have to know what you are getting.

August 19, 2002

I am not a religious person by any means, however, it does seem to me that if God had wanted it standardized he/she would have made it that way to begin with.

-

gar_fla_62

herbal remedies

Monday, August 19, 2002 6:32 AM

[herbal remedies] Re: Fresh Whole & Pure

All I can say is that your claim is probably true, but not absolute. You can research and find a company or brand that puts out a quality product. Fresh herbs are good, depending on the herb you are taking. I just happen to believe that there are also certain herbs which have to be standardized. As you said, you have to know what you are getting. Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

August 19, 2002

Well, there's another way to look at it. Man has free will to change the things

God has given him in ways that can result in a better quality of life. God

didn't give us houses, but I'm glad I live in one.

August 19, 2002

Good comeback. Touche! Yes, your point is well taken. But then are we just handing our natural remedies over to the pharmaceutical companies? Can you standardize an herb in your kitchen? Do you have the knowledge to do this? There is always a positive and negative side to every issue as this is a two pole universe. Because man has free will opens up the door for both good and evil, wise use and abuse. Maybe some things are better left in their natural form. The herbs are already synergistic the way they are in their natural God given form. What happens to that synergism when we standardize one ingredient?

Don

-

gar_fla_62

herbal remedies

Monday, August 19, 2002 7:46 AM

[herbal remedies] Re: Fresh Whole & Pure

Well, there's another way to look at it. Man has free will to change the things God has given him in ways that can result in a better quality of life. God didn't give us houses, but I'm glad I live in one.Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

August 19, 2002

Remember, herbs sold as standardized still contain much of the rest of the herb

as well, so the synergy is still there.

August 19, 2002

Hi Suzi. For what it's worth, my name is Gary. Anyway, getting back to the

standardization issue. Like so many other things, it's not an absolute case.

There are many herbs which are not standardized, should not be, and need not be

because they have many active ingredients with little variation in their content

from plant to plant. Lavender, Lemon Balm, Scullcap, and Dandelion are a few

examples. On the other hand, such herbs as Kava and Korean Ginseng should be

standardized in order to get the benefits they offer. For exmple, if you take a

" whole herb " ginseng product, you have no clue as to what the ginsenoside

content is. Most of the time, it will run less than 2% or even 1%. A

standardized product will give the same amount of milligrams, but the

ginsenoside content (depending on the maker) will be from 4% to 7%. That is a

big difference that one can definatly notice. Ginsenosides have long since been

isolated as the primary active components. I decided on alternative medicine

because it's natural, however I also like to be practical.

August 19, 2002

OK, OK, OK, this has the apparency of getting into "Religious Dogma", and even though I personally and "privately" love a good debate (philosophical, religious, or otherwise ;o), may I suggest that these communications be sent to each other OFF list and kept to your personal emails.

Please.

Love,

Doc

Dr. Ian Shillington505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

-

Suzanne Nottmeier

herbal remedies

Monday, August 19, 2002 11:23 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Re: Fresh Whole & Pure

Gar_fla do you have a first name??? just curious..... anyway, He did give us a house... our spirit is living in it - it's called a human body.... Suzi gar_fla_62 wrote: Well, there's another way to look at it. Man has free will to change the things God has given him in ways that can result in a better quality of life. God didn't give us houses, but I'm glad I live in one.

August 20, 2002

On the contrary, standardized herbs DO NOT contain the same active

constituents as whole, fresh, pure herbs. Stadardized extracts isolate

one or two compounds and call it an herb. False. It's a drug. St.

John's Wort contains over 80+ active compounds which are lost when

stardized to only hypericin and hyperforin. And here is a nugget for

you. When those two compounds are isolated they basically begin to

lose their efficacy very fast. So, by the time you buy it on the shelf

it is most likely more dead than when initially isolated. Yet, people

do have a choice when they shop for herbal rememdies. That choice line

will always be there when you shop for groceries or herbs. If you want

fresh whole pure then fresh or fresh freeze-dried is the way to go. If

you want dried devitalized herbs then you have a ton of choices. Go

fresh!

Mark

herbal remedies, " gar_fla_62 " <tampagar@w...> wrote:

> Remember, herbs sold as standardized still contain much of the rest

of the herb as well, so the synergy is still there.

August 20, 2002

Let's look at the reality of the example you made of St. John's Wort. You said

that the hypericum is isolated and the other ingredients are lost. The truth is

that St. John's Wort is standardized to .3% hypericum. This means you still are

getting 99.7% of the other ingredients to work along with the primaty active

one. I'll repeat it AGAIN. I do not believe in standardization for all herbs,

but agree with the fact that other herbs are and very well should be for obvious

reasons. I don't know if you have any first hand experience with taking and

comparing the herbs that are both " whole " and " standardized " , but mine clearly

shows a major difference between the two. The choice is there. You can either

stick to a theory or go with what works and is also backed up by genuine

research.

August 20, 2002

I'm do not know what research you are looking at but you are incorrect

to say that standardized St. John's Wort still provides 99.7% of the

other ingredients. You get hypericin and hyperofin but you lose the

other active constituents that are vital to the true function of St.

John's Wort. Sure you get a an effect from standardized herbs, yet at

the same time you are dispersing toxins into your body from the

chemical residue on the stadardized product. I've heard recently that

research being done specifically on hypericin and hyperforin says

these two compounds are not the key compounds in St. John's Wort for

treating moderate depression. Recently I read that the two compounds

isolated from Echinacea as a standardized extract to boost the immune

system actually DO NOT boost the immune system. It's good to know

what's in an herb which companies who make stadardized products have

shown through research, but call an orange an orange. A standardized

extract that reads " ST. JOHN'S WORT " is not really that; it's

hypericin and hyperforin. One important aspect that needs attention in

this industry is TRADITION. If you are familiar with the Eclectic

phycisians of the late 1800's early 1900's they said fresh

preparations of herbs is the best way to take herbs. Traditionally

people would take one or two pinch fulls of FRESH herbs AS NEEDED.

What I am saying is fact. Alot of manufacturers of herbal products are

not out to give consumers a quality product. Did you know that you do

not have to start out with whole herb to make a standardized extract?

Cranberry for example: scraps of Cranberry can be used to make a

standardized extract; then made into a table which won't digest well;

plus some of the fillers used inhibit proper absorption of the active

ingredient. Sure the research may be genuine; what people do not

understand is how the product is made.

Mark

herbal remedies, " gar_fla_62 " <tampagar@w...> wrote:

> Let's look at the reality of the example you made of St. John's

Wort. You said that the hypericum is isolated and the other

ingredients are lost. The truth is that St. John's Wort is

standardized to .3% hypericum. This means you still are getting 99.7%

of the other ingredients to work along with the primaty active one.

I'll repeat it AGAIN. I do not believe in standardization for all

herbs, but agree with the fact that other herbs are and very well

should be for obvious reasons. I don't know if you have any first hand

experience with taking and comparing the herbs that are both " whole "

and " standardized " , but mine clearly shows a major difference between

the two. The choice is there. You can either stick to a theory or go

with what works and is also backed up by genuine research.

August 20, 2002

If a 300 mg capsule of St. John's wort is standardized to contain .3%

hypericin, how can you honestly say that the remaining 299 mg do not contain the

plant's other components? The studies done on St. John's Wort, establishing the

herb as a proven remedy for mild to moderate depression were based on the

standardized extract. Do you have first hand personal experience comparing a

whole herb to the standardized form? I've been a long time user of Kava Kava and

Korean Ginseng. All I can say is that a typical dose of whole herb Kava, about

800 mg to 1,200 mg, does not have nearly as good of an effect as one 250 mg

standardized capsule. I've also noticed the same thing when comparing a 500 mg

dose of Ginseng in the two different forms. I like to know what I am getting

from an herb. Otherwise, you never know for sure and can only wonder.

August 21, 2002

Dr. Shillington, I am saying that I believe in standardization for some herbs

such as Korean Ginseng, Kava, Ginko Biloba, St. John's Wort, Milk Thistle, just

to name a few examples. However, I don't see the need for standardization for

other herbs such as Lemon Balm, Scullcap, Lavender, Dandelion, or Gotu Kola

because they most likely have many active coomponents. Notice how there are

certain herbs that can't be found in any standardized form. When it comes to a

belief system, be it this or most anything else, I just don't see how one school

of thought can apply completely.

August 21, 2002

gar_fla, I never stated that one does not get a response from

standardized extracts. You may get one but at the same time toxins

from chemical residue are distributed into the body. Stadardized

extracts are one or two compounds extracted from herbs. So yes, I am

telling you that the remaining 299mg is not herb. It's fillers like

magnesium stearate. This filler has been proven to slow down the

absorption of herbs. Some companies do add back herb as filler to

their extracts BUT it's dried out herb which is still just a fraction.

Have you ever tried fresh freeze-dried herbs? Or, have you hand picked

fresh herbs (like a pinch or two full) and eaten them? Traditionally

this how people consumed herbs. You will get more out of an herb in

the fresh form as opposed to one that has been extracted over and over

again.

Analytical study and clinical research studies have demonstrated that

certain herbs are most effective in the fresh, or Freeze-dried form,

such as:

Echinacea

Chamomile

Chapparral

Cranberry

Dandelion

Feverfew

Garlic

Ginger

Ginkgo

Goldenseal

Hawthorn

Hops

Oats

Passion Flower

Red Clover

Saw Palmetto

Palmetto

Shiitake Mushroom

Valerian

Take care,

Mark

herbal remedies, " gar_fla_62 " <tampagar@w...> wrote:

> If a 300 mg capsule of St. John's wort is standardized to contain

..3% hypericin, how can you honestly say that the remaining 299 mg do

not contain the plant's other components? The studies done on St.

John's Wort, establishing the herb as a proven remedy for mild to

moderate depression were based on the standardized extract. Do you

have first hand personal experience comparing a whole herb to the

standardized form? I've been a long time user of Kava Kava and Korean

Ginseng. All I can say is that a typical dose of whole herb Kava,

about 800 mg to 1,200 mg, does not have nearly as good of an effect as

one 250 mg standardized capsule. I've also noticed the same thing when

comparing a 500 mg dose of Ginseng in the two different forms. I like

to know what I am getting from an herb. Otherwise, you never know for

sure and can only wonder.

August 21, 2002

I forgot to include Milk Thistle seed and St. John's Wort to that list

of herbs.

Mark

herbal remedies, " meneer_mark " <pgaw67@n...> wrote:

> gar_fla, I never stated that one does not get a response from

> standardized extracts. You may get one but at the same time toxins

> from chemical residue are distributed into the body. Stadardized

> extracts are one or two compounds extracted from herbs. So yes, I am

> telling you that the remaining 299mg is not herb. It's fillers like

> magnesium stearate. This filler has been proven to slow down the

> absorption of herbs. Some companies do add back herb as filler to

> their extracts BUT it's dried out herb which is still just a fraction.

> Have you ever tried fresh freeze-dried herbs? Or, have you hand picked

> fresh herbs (like a pinch or two full) and eaten them? Traditionally

> this how people consumed herbs. You will get more out of an herb in

> the fresh form as opposed to one that has been extracted over and over

> again.

> Analytical study and clinical research studies have demonstrated that

> certain herbs are most effective in the fresh, or Freeze-dried form,

> such as:

> Echinacea

> Chamomile

> Chapparral

> Cranberry

> Dandelion

> Feverfew

> Garlic

> Ginger

> Ginkgo

> Goldenseal

> Hawthorn

> Hops

> Oats

> Passion Flower

> Red Clover

> Saw Palmetto

> Palmetto

> Shiitake Mushroom

> Valerian

>

> Take care,

> Mark

>

> herbal remedies, " gar_fla_62 " <tampagar@w...> wrote:

> > If a 300 mg capsule of St. John's wort is standardized to contain

> .3% hypericin, how can you honestly say that the remaining 299 mg do

> not contain the plant's other components? The studies done on St.

> John's Wort, establishing the herb as a proven remedy for mild to

> moderate depression were based on the standardized extract. Do you

> have first hand personal experience comparing a whole herb to the

> standardized form? I've been a long time user of Kava Kava and Korean

> Ginseng. All I can say is that a typical dose of whole herb Kava,

> about 800 mg to 1,200 mg, does not have nearly as good of an effect as

> one 250 mg standardized capsule. I've also noticed the same thing when

> comparing a 500 mg dose of Ginseng in the two different forms. I like

> to know what I am getting from an herb. Otherwise, you never know for

> sure and can only wonder.

August 21, 2002

Mark, I don't know where you are getting the information from, saying that a

standardized herb contains only the primary ingredient and the rest is non-herb

residue. This is not true. Anyone can even verify this themselves. For example,

pop open a 300 mg capsule of St. John's Wort standardized at .3%. It's a simple

no brainer that you will be looking at roughly 299 mg of an HERB. Now I'm not

saying there can't be trace amouts of other residue as well, but we're talking

of levels that aren't even worth mentioning compared to the quantity of herb.

Mark, I'm afraid you're blowing this WAY out of proportion. Yes, I have tried

the standardized herbs I use in freeze dried form and found the results were not

nearly as good. Again, I agree with the belief of how the whole herb concept

works, however there are some herbs that need to have their primary ingredients

enhanced in order to achieve the full benefits. I would take my standardized

herbs in whole form if there was some way of knowing FOR SURE that they were

potent enough. That's the basis for my point.

August 21, 2002

It may be that there is a problem with terms here.

Standardized can mean tested to ensure a whole herb

has a certain level in the batch i.e. .3% hypericum

was tested from a particular sample. The idea being

that it shows a certain level of quality to the herb.

The term standardized EXTRACT is different. Here

chemicals are used to extract was is thought to be the

active ingrediant, ie high levels of hypericum in a

pill or liquid (and tests show this extract has no

effect) or isoflavin exctracted from soy for hot

flashes. I'm not a big stickler for definetions but it

may help solve this conflict.

bob

--- gar_fla_62 <tampagar wrote:

> Mark, I don't know where you are getting the

> information from, saying that a standardized herb

> contains only the primary ingredient and the rest is

> non-herb residue. This is not true. Anyone can even

> verify this themselves. For example, pop open a 300

> mg capsule of St. John's Wort standardized at .3%.

> It's a simple no brainer that you will be looking at

> roughly 299 mg of an HERB. Now I'm not saying there

> can't be trace amouts of other residue as well, but

> we're talking of levels that aren't even worth

> mentioning compared to the quantity of herb. Mark,

> I'm afraid you're blowing this WAY out of

> proportion. Yes, I have tried the standardized herbs

> I use in freeze dried form and found the results

> were not nearly as good. Again, I agree with the

> belief of how the whole herb concept works, however

> there are some herbs that need to have their primary

> ingredients enhanced in order to achieve the full

> benefits. I would take my standardized herbs in

> whole form if there was some way of knowing FOR SURE

> that they were potent enough. That's the basis for

> my point.

>

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August 22, 2002

OK, I've got the picture (I think), and if I have this right, I disagree completely.

Do you know how much it would cost me to set up the equipment necessary to measure the exact percentage of Lobeline in my Lobelia Tincture, and the same goes for any other herb?????

This would run into the hundreds of thousands if not over a million.

Standardization of ANY herbal preparation would effectively wipe out the little "mom & pop" herbalist, and create a complete monopoly for the giant pharmaceuticals.

I'm not saying that individual components of certain herbs should not be investigated, researched and isolated. I think this would be marvelous and a boon to humankind. And if the giant pharmaceuticals were to start concentrating on this, rather than worrying about their precious little patents, I might even find a kind word to say about them ( I may be dreaming here ;o)

One thing about herbs and my patients of the past: I've overdosed, I've underdosed, and I've even given the wrong herb at one time or another as I was learning my trade, and I can honestly say that NEVER WAS ANY DAMAGE DONE!!! NEVER!!! ONLY GOOD WAS DONE!!! And this includes the herbs you mention below. God forbid, if laws ever get passed which standardize Ginseng or Milk Thistle. The thought scares the hellouta me.

As far as your opinion is concerned about "I just don't see how one school of thought can apply completely", and my two cents on that: Even though I agree there may be no "absolutes" in this physical univers of ours, I still feel that there are some things that are more "right" than others. And in the field of herbalism, there should be education without limitations.

As I've always said, "Go with what works". All this attention placed upon exact dosages, and exact quantity of ingredients is Balderdash, Hornswaggle, and just plain ole Horse Shit. We are not talking Rocket Science here. We are talking Natural Healing and it is a very gross subject with a million variables. Furthermore, it is almost impossible to screw up with it. It is the medicos, who say "Ohhhhhhhhh, be careful, you might hurt someone" and other such crap. It is the pharmaceuticals who get sooooooooo significant about how exact medical techniques should be and that you should use their "Super-Duper-Fix-It-All" one shot cure (always a drug).

As long as healing is considered to be a complex subject (and the medicos specialize in complexity), we are off on the wrong track and will eventually get sicker and sicker as time goes by.

There are only two facets to all illness and the second one is a direct result of the first. And these are.

1. Stress (Suppression)

2. Stoppage.

That's it.

Look for any other answers and you are adding a complexity that will eventually lead you into trouble. The above two concepts when applied to Naturopathy can lead to the resolution of any physical illness without exception save one. This is the individual who truly wishes to succumb and does not really wish to survive and be well. And there really are people like that. These are the ones who'll always argue the opposite of what you say and are putting everyone and everything down around them. They are very negative, though sometimes this is covert and hidden.

All disease is curable, but not all people are.

Standardization of herbs and herbal medicine??? Not in my books. I'll fight it tooth and nail.

Love,

Doc

Dr. Ian Shillington505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

-

gar_fla_62

herbal remedies

Tuesday, August 20, 2002 5:08 PM

[herbal remedies] Re: Fresh Whole & Pure

Dr. Shillington, I am saying that I believe in standardization for some herbs such as Korean Ginseng, Kava, Ginko Biloba, St. John's Wort, Milk Thistle, just to name a few examples. However, I don't see the need for standardization for other herbs such as Lemon Balm, Scullcap, Lavender, Dandelion, or Gotu Kola because they most likely have many active coomponents. Notice how there are certain herbs that can't be found in any standardized form. When it comes to a belief system, be it this or most anything else, I just don't see how one school of thought can apply completely.

August 22, 2002

herbal remedies, " Dr. Ian Shillington "

<Dr.IanShillington@G...> wrote:

> OK, I've got the picture (I think), and if I have this right, I

disagree completely.

>

Portions of text removed:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Doc, I support your point of view.

Here are a few sources that I'd like to share with the group,

opinions of others on the subject of standardization.

(Unfortunately one link that I found interesting in the UK, which is

no longer available, investigated a number of Kava reactions and

found that they related to by products of acetone.....used in

processing the herb)

http://www.planetherbs.com/articles/STANDARDIZED%20edited%203.html

http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives/2000/feb/02gaeddert.html

http://www.pharmabiz.com/newsfeat/feat112.asp

Regards,

Richard

August 22, 2002

Richard, funny you should mention Kave. This is a good example of

tradition being important in regards to the use of herbs. Polynesians

have been using Kava for over 3000 years without any liver toxicity;

or any other toxicity for that matter. The Polynesians know all the

different species of Kava, how to prepare it, when and when not to use

certain species. Trouble is, some companies are not species specific

when it comes to manufacturing Kave products. This is highly important

when it comes to tradition. Gotta pay attention to tradition.

Mark

herbal remedies, " ricardocorridor " <RicardoCorridor@c...>

wrote:

> herbal remedies, " Dr. Ian Shillington "

> <Dr.IanShillington@G...> wrote:

> > OK, I've got the picture (I think), and if I have this right, I

> disagree completely.

> >

> Portions of text removed:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>

> Doc, I support your point of view.

>

> Here are a few sources that I'd like to share with the group,

> opinions of others on the subject of standardization.

>

> (Unfortunately one link that I found interesting in the UK, which is

> no longer available, investigated a number of Kava reactions and

> found that they related to by products of acetone.....used in

> processing the herb)

>

> http://www.planetherbs.com/articles/STANDARDIZED%20edited%203.html

>

> http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives/2000/feb/02gaeddert.html

>

> http://www.pharmabiz.com/newsfeat/feat112.asp

>

> Regards,

> Richard

August 22, 2002

Dear Gary,

I apologize if it looked as if I was "slam dunking" you, but I am "emotional" about Natural Healing. As a matter of fact, I am very passionate about it.

The drug companies were dragged into this, because you can not talk about "Standardization" without bringing them into it. In this day and age, it is the giant pharmaceuticals who set the "standards" on standardization. They own it. It is the medicos who judge which form of research is acceptable or not, and they've sold this "bill of goods" to every government on Earth. I just finished an argument on another list (a Downs Syndrome list), whereby all my years of clinical experience was accused of being "anecdotal evidence". According to this one advocate of Allopathy, if it wasn't done with double-blind studies, it wasn't valid research. He just couldn't see that years of clinical research was valid. I realized I was dealing with a brainwashed drone and left the list.

The problem with your argument is that if you allow the pharmaceuticals to get even a big toe in the door and create "one set of standards" for even one herbal preparation, the rest will be history, all other herbal preparations will follow, and then only the giant pharmaceuticals will have a say on what is good and what is not, and finally it will become against the law to heal oneself. This lawsuit against a naturopath (currently being discussed on list), should be proof enough for you that the handwriting is on the wall as far as what their agenda is.

I don't wish to invalidate your observations on what has worked for you, and would never presume to do so, but I reserve the right to publicly disagree with you on any general principle, especially when I feel it comes to the loss of FREEDOM.

I agree with you that "Tradition" is not necessarily the best of subjects for this argument, and there are some cases where certain traditions have long and tried survival potentials, and have come down the ages untarnished where others have been thrown by the wayside. IE. The practice of Blood Letting has been discarded as not only being barbaric, but actually as being quite destructive. On the other hand certain herbal preparations which have been handed down for generations, will still out perform any pharmaceutical on the market.

As you so aptly put, I'd trust EXPERIENCE rather than "theory" or "tradition" in this debate. And my experience has shown that "whole herb" preparations are still far superior to any standardization process to date. I admit that this could change if research money became more altruistic and less greedy of monopoly, and a good example supporting your end of the debate is "vitamins", but the medicos are trying to get a total control on this market as well and make all vitamins subject to prescription.

I've rambled long enough, but I'll leave you with this quote from Thomas Edison, “Until Man duplicates a blade of grass, Nature can laugh at his so-called scientific knowledge.”

Welllllll, Nature put HERBS there too. And so far as my experience is concerned, the proportions in an herb of one biochemical compound compared with the next in that same herb, is about as perfect as I could wish.

Love,

Doc

Dr. Ian Shillington505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

-

gar_fla_62

herbal remedies

Wednesday, August 21, 2002 9:00 PM

[herbal remedies] Re: Fresh Whole & Pure

Dr. Shillington, with all due respect, I don't understand the lengthy emotional reply. I don't know why the drug companies were dragged into this. If you've read my posts, you should already know how much I resent them. Also, I never expressed belief in standardization of ALL herbs or said it should be manditory. You did say the main thing that counts and that is "go with what works". Through personal first hand experience by comparison, I've found that standrdization of "some" herbs is what works for me. I just hope that those who promote the "whole herb only" concept are doing so by their OWN experience and not only going by the faith of theory or tradition. Please forgive me for not having a belief system that s to an "established" mind set. That's just the way I am.

August 23, 2002

Susan, here is another interesting point of view. Yes the allopaths are taking over, and you can bet they do have an agenda and a long range plan for control. Control of what ? Control of the human race, and I suppose animals as well. Anything where they can realize a profit...

Love,

Patrick

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Dr. Ian Shillington

herbal remedies

Thursday, August 22, 2002 4:34 PM