Guest guest Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Intresting topic, one place to defenitly start is shooting the trouble mind paradigm publication. Consider the phase of withdrawal and mania (withdraw and mania should be clearly explianed in Wiseman and Feng practical dictionary) The journal of Chinese medicine also have some good articles on this topic or related. Usaly consider pghlem and fire probably part of the dis-ease and dis-ease. Heart channel liver and kidney channel are maybe involved? Could you palpitate around these lines-tracts to see if any area emit more heat and or a brise and od or cold? Phil can brobably sugest some good point combinations. see which one interrelate "most" to your diagnosis? What is your diagnosis in terms of TEAM and or CM? any signs or symptoms you care to share? Marco - Dr.H.Peter Nussbaumer Chinese Medicine Friday, November 21, 2003 1:55 AM Bipolar disease Hi Group ! I wonder if any of you have experience, to treate "Bipolare Disease". Any suggestions are wellkome, for treating this disorder ! (if possible only TCA) H.Peter __ IncrediMail - O mundo do correio eletrônico finalmente desenvolveu-se - Clique aqui Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to<Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 It is conveyed that needle technique be taken seriously with this type of disorder disease dis-ease pattern... I'll be interested in what you think? and probably the will need many treatments... Which needle techniques would people recommend? Draining - fire phlegm? To "appease" the shen spirit? Supplement to?... Marco Bergh - Marco Chinese Medicine Friday, November 21, 2003 5:41 AM Re: Bipolar disease Intresting topic, one place to defenitly start is shooting the trouble mind paradigm publication. Consider the phase of withdrawal and mania (withdraw and mania should be clearly explianed in Wiseman and Feng practical dictionary) The journal of Chinese medicine also have some good articles on this topic or related. Usaly consider pghlem and fire probably part of the dis-ease and dis-ease. Heart channel liver and kidney channel are maybe involved? Could you palpitate around these lines-tracts to see if any area emit more heat and or a brise and od or cold? Phil can brobably sugest some good point combinations. see which one interrelate "most" to your diagnosis? What is your diagnosis in terms of TEAM and or CM? any signs or symptoms you care to share? Marco - Dr.H.Peter Nussbaumer Chinese Medicine Friday, November 21, 2003 1:55 AM Bipolar disease Hi Group ! I wonder if any of you have experience, to treate "Bipolare Disease". Any suggestions are wellkome, for treating this disorder ! (if possible only TCA) H.Peter __ IncrediMail - O mundo do correio eletrônico finalmente desenvolveu-se - Clique aqui Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to<Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 You probably have to make a difrent treatment principal and or at least approach between the withdrawal phase and the more manic phase? Marco Could someone elaborate on these issues? BTW also Blue Poppy web site and publisher have books and articles on this them by Bob Flwas et al. - Marco Chinese Medicine Friday, November 21, 2003 6:50 AM Re: Bipolar disease It is conveyed that needle technique be taken seriously with this type of disorder disease dis-ease pattern... I'll be interested in what you think? and probably the will need many treatments... Which needle techniques would people recommend? Draining - fire phlegm? To "appease" the shen spirit? Supplement to?... Marco Bergh - Marco Chinese Medicine Friday, November 21, 2003 5:41 AM Re: Bipolar disease Intresting topic, one place to defenitly start is shooting the trouble mind paradigm publication. Consider the phase of withdrawal and mania (withdraw and mania should be clearly explianed in Wiseman and Feng practical dictionary) The journal of Chinese medicine also have some good articles on this topic or related. Usaly consider pghlem and fire probably part of the dis-ease and dis-ease. Heart channel liver and kidney channel are maybe involved? Could you palpitate around these lines-tracts to see if any area emit more heat and or a brise and od or cold? Phil can brobably sugest some good point combinations. see which one interrelate "most" to your diagnosis? What is your diagnosis in terms of TEAM and or CM? any signs or symptoms you care to share? Marco - Dr.H.Peter Nussbaumer Chinese Medicine Friday, November 21, 2003 1:55 AM Bipolar disease Hi Group ! I wonder if any of you have experience, to treate "Bipolare Disease". Any suggestions are wellkome, for treating this disorder ! (if possible only TCA) H.Peter __ IncrediMail - O mundo do correio eletrônico finalmente desenvolveu-se - Clique aqui Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to<Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Hi all, thought I'd have a go at trying to understand this a bit. Don't expect most of it to make sense though I'm still learning the mechanics of this stuff, lol. Yes, I agree with Marco that the kidney, liver and heart are most definately involved, possibly in combination with eachother. Bi-polar disease often makes the patients' behaviour unpredictable (heat/phlegm in the heart or disturbed shen by other means). This would be accompanied by insomnia, stuttering, palpitaions, fits of laughter and general inappropriate behaviour. Liver qi stagnation reveals itself (on an emotional level) as edginess and a sense of frustration. As Marco said before palpitaion could give different sensations, with liver qi stag, there would be a tendency to bruse. Also, the liver spirit 'Hun' gives room for pain, or tolerance of it. Is the patient particularly sensitive to acupuncture? Do they find it extreemly painful? On the other hand, are they quite 'tough', do they ignore or find it difficult to recognise physical pain? Moments of withdrawl or quiet grief can be caused with problems associated with the lung. I think such disease would be accompanied by a qi deficiency as the " the lungs rule qi " . Does the patient have any other associated disease such as Asthma or Dyspnea? A problem with the spleen would be seen by the persons indecisiveness (or would it?....lol) How are the patients bowel movements and appetite? Does the patient lack motivation, clear thought processes and creativity? Does the patient have any history of bone disease or frequent breakage ect? These would be signs of diminishing kidney qi. A deficiency of kidney qi causes uncontrollable fear. How do they feel about death? How do they feel about becoming older? What's the condition of their head hair and hearing? Yet again, we can look at lung disease as kidney is responsible for the 'grasping and holding down' of inspired qi. So the root of respiratory disease could be attributed to the kidney energy. What are the possiblities of the patient having blood heat, causing the shen to become unsettled in most of the organs above? H.Peter I hope you don't feel I'm patronising you with all of the basic jargon. I'm just sorry that I can't suggest any acupoints as I haven't got that far in my learning yet Maybe this minor revision of the emotional organs and their 'spirits' will light the fuse for understanding this persons condition. I know they baffle and inspire me to learn more about mental health from both a CM and WM point of view. I believe it's very important to look at how the patient reacts when they are having a 'fit'. Do they throw things around? Or break down in tears? Are they particularly loud or spend most of their time being edgy and become angry easily? When they become withdrawn, what are their thoughts? Do they spend this time worrying about things that they can't change? Do they just beat themselves up with things that they've done in the past? Is it something to do with their present or future? I'd like to point out that it wouldn't be right to try to council the patient/client, but it's very important to ask about these things to differentiate which disease pattern (or combination of patterns) are involved. Communication is a very powerful tool in healing, especially in cases of depression. Often depressives feel unable to express themselves and think that others would rather not listen to them, being listened to can help considerably. Hope this makes sense and helps to some degree (however little) Love and light, Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Hi again, Maybe this link would be useful to you. It's an article by Bob Flaws http://www.bluepoppy.com/press/download/articles/yinfire_mental.cfm Have a nice day Jag Chinese Medicine , " Marco " <bergh@i...> wrote: > You probably have to make a difrent treatment principal and or at least approach between the withdrawal phase and the more manic phase? > > > Marco > > Could someone elaborate on these issues? > BTW also Blue Poppy web site and publisher have books and articles on this them by Bob Flwas et al. > > > > - > Marco > Chinese Medicine > Friday, November 21, 2003 6:50 AM > Re: Bipolar disease > > > It is conveyed that needle technique be taken seriously with this type of disorder disease dis-ease pattern... > > I'll be interested in what you think? > > and probably the will need many treatments... > > Which needle techniques would people recommend? > > Draining - fire phlegm? > > To " appease " the shen spirit? > > Supplement to?... > > > Marco Bergh > > > > > > - > Marco > Chinese Medicine > Friday, November 21, 2003 5:41 AM > Re: Bipolar disease > > > Intresting topic, > > one place to defenitly start is shooting the trouble mind paradigm publication. > > Consider the phase of withdrawal and mania (withdraw and mania should be clearly explianed in Wiseman and Feng practical dictionary) > > The journal of Chinese medicine also have some good articles on this topic or related. > > Usaly consider pghlem and fire probably part of the dis-ease and dis-ease. > > Heart channel liver and kidney channel are maybe involved? > > Could you palpitate around these lines-tracts to see if any area emit more heat and or a brise and od or cold? > > Phil can brobably sugest some good point combinations. > > see which one interrelate " most " to your diagnosis? > > What is your diagnosis in terms of TEAM and or CM? > > any signs or symptoms you care to share? > > Marco > > > > > > - > Dr.H.Peter Nussbaumer > Chinese Medicine > Friday, November 21, 2003 1:55 AM > Bipolar disease > > > Hi Group ! > > I wonder if any of you have experience, to treate " Bipolare Disease " . > Any suggestions are wellkome, for treating this disorder ! > (if possible only TCA) > H.Peter > > > __ > IncrediMail - O mundo do correio eletrônico finalmente desenvolveu-se - Clique aqui > > Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. > > To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups' homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click 'edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. > > To send an email to > <Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Hi Jag, intresting questions and train of tought and one book that might be usefull is also shoothing the trouble mind paradigm publications... Marco Ps. Phil do you have any point combinations sugestions? what about KTH Holger any opinions? - " jag_panesar " <jag_panesar <Chinese Medicine > Saturday, November 22, 2003 12:03 PM Re: Bipolar disease Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Hi, the approaches mentioned may be key to syndrome, and I'd like to add a little twist. With people experiencing mental distress, look at tongue also. Many times in psychiatric hospitals(and out), the tongue will show the signs of strong damp/plegm, yet little else in the presentation will bear it, so it is overlooked as a primary pathogen. This is 'invisible plegm', or, 'water (damp/phlegm) shooting the pure yang (mind)'. If medicinals and treatment aim at disolving and dispersing the phlegm, often symptoms lessen and even clear. And as usual, consider whole organism to balance as the secondary stategy, and uncover source of damp if possible, it could be the mind too. If manic, pearl, amber, oyster shell, licorice, minor blue dragon, etc. If depressive, invigorate qi and blood and so on, and follow closely as picture changes day by day. This has worked, and sorry if I give a poor description. peace jag_panesar <jag_panesar wrote: Hi again, Maybe this link would be useful to you. It's an article by Bob Flawshttp://www.bluepoppy.com/press/download/articles/yinfire_mental.cfmHave a nice day :)JagChinese Medicine , "Marco" <bergh@i...> wrote:> You probably have to make a difrent treatment principal and or at least approach between the withdrawal phase and the more manic phase?> > > Marco> > Could someone elaborate on these issues?> BTW also Blue Poppy web site and publisher have books and articles on this them by Bob Flwas et al.> > > > - > Marco > To: Chinese Medicine > Friday, November 21, 2003 6:50 AM> Re: Bipolar disease> > > It is conveyed that needle technique be taken seriously with this type of disorder disease dis-ease pattern...> > I'll be interested in what you think?> > and probably the will need many treatments...> > Which needle techniques would people recommend?> > Draining - fire phlegm? > > To "appease" the shen spirit?> > Supplement to?...> > > Marco Bergh> > > > > > - > Marco > Chinese Medicine > Friday, November 21, 2003 5:41 AM> Re: Bipolar disease> > > Intresting topic,> > one place to defenitly start is shooting the trouble mind paradigm publication.> > Consider the phase of withdrawal and mania (withdraw and mania should be clearly explianed in Wiseman and Feng practical dictionary)> > The journal of Chinese medicine also have some good articles on this topic or related.> > Usaly consider pghlem and fire probably part of the dis-ease and dis-ease.> > Heart channel liver and kidney channel are maybe involved?> > Could you palpitate around these lines-tracts to see if any area emit more heat and or a brise and od or cold?> > Phil can brobably sugest some good point combinations.> > see which one interrelate "most" to your diagnosis?> > What is your diagnosis in terms of TEAM and or CM?> > any signs or symptoms you care to share?> > Marco> > > > > > - > Dr.H.Peter Nussbaumer > Chinese Medicine > Friday, November 21, 2003 1:55 AM> Bipolar disease> > > Hi Group !> > I wonder if any of you have experience, to treate "Bipolare Disease".> Any suggestions are wellkome, for treating this disorder !> (if possible only TCA)> H.Peter > > > __> IncrediMail - O mundo do correio eletrônico finalmente desenvolveu-se - Clique aqui > > Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. > > To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups' homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click 'edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. > > To send an email to> <Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days.> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Sorry,to add this to my previous reply, the condition could also be called 'water or damp misting the heart orifice, if with appropriate presentation. Implying water/fire tangling. Marco <bergh wrote: Hi Jag,intresting questions and train of tought and one book that might be usefullis also shoothing the trouble mind paradigm publications...MarcoPs. Phil do you have any point combinations sugestions?what about KTH Holger any opinions?-"jag_panesar" <jag_panesar<Chinese Medicine >Saturday, November 22, 2003 12:03 PMRe: Bipolar diseaseMembership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to<Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Anyone had success in helping a person with bipolar get good rest at night? I have a client who is 13 years old and parents trying to avoid traditional meds. Any feedback appreciated! Marguerite in Illinois Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Mother Knows Best <momsherbs wrote: Anyone had success in helping a person with bipolar get good rest at night? I have a client who is 13 years old and parents trying to avoid traditional meds. Any feedback appreciated! Marguerite in Illinois my wife have been bi-polar many years,weve tryed meds that put her in the hospital and allmost killed her,withdraws,(bensos)the best thing that has helped is melitonin,we buy it at walmart for about $3.00,any questions email me at RWIT56 hope this will help,she takes 1-2 pills a night, Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Homeopathy addresses bipolar conditions. Perhaps suggest a visit to a local, reputable homeopath? Cathleen Springer , " Mother Knows Best " <momsherbs wrote: > > Anyone had success in helping a person with bipolar get good rest at > night? I have a client who is 13 years old and parents trying to avoid > traditional meds. Any feedback appreciated! > > > Marguerite in Illinois > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 We use Melatonin and Quantum Biofeedback to balance the imbalances that have caused the BiPolar. I have 2 kids that have BiPolar and they are meds free. The Quantum Biofeedback has been the best therapy we have found. Jenny Kernan Quantum Biofeedback Therapist --- Mother Knows Best <momsherbs wrote: > Anyone had success in helping a person with bipolar > get good rest at > night? I have a client who is 13 years old and > parents trying to avoid > traditional meds. Any feedback appreciated! > > > Marguerite in Illinois > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Audiotherapies work well for this in young people. Try drbate.com first. Suziki violin lessons should help to tune and relax the brain up until 12-13 years old. Or contact me directly for other methods. I am a licensed therapist and my work should be covered by insurance if you need more help. Namaste, David In , " Mother Knows Best " <momsherbs wrote: > > Anyone had success in helping a person with bipolar get good rest at > night? I have a client who is 13 years old and parents trying to avoid > traditional meds. Any feedback appreciated! > > > Marguerite in Illinois > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Hi, Marguerite! (I love your name, my ex-husband had an aunt whose name was Marguerite -- she was one of my absolute favorite people). First, I'd question a diagnosis of a 13 year old with bi-polar. Have they gotten a second opinion on that? If he (and I'm assuming it's a " he " ... of course, there's a 50% failure rate in that assumption!), is having trouble sleeping at night, that's a sign of the manic side of things coming on. There are alot of things that can be tried: kava tea (extended use can damage liver), chamomile tea (be careful if the person has allergies), hops, valerian root (smells awful, but helpful), passionflower, Melatonin taken before bed (takes about 6 weeks to kick in). Depending upon how severe things are, lithium will work. But I certainly understand the parents' reluctance of using drugs ... lithium is natural, but I don't know how natural the lithium they actually give to bipolar patients is. I'd get a second opinion. A lot of docs who diagnose/treat ADHD will often say kids also have bi-polar. Some people are helped by those drugs, others are made worse. I don't think finding out what works best for each person is necessarily an easy path. However, one thing you do NOT want to happen is for someone to go too deep into a depression -- OR too high into the manic phase (which then looks like schizophrenia). See if they'll get a second opinion. Dede , " Mother Knows Best " <momsherbs wrote: > > Anyone had success in helping a person with bipolar get good rest at > night? I have a client who is 13 years old and parents trying to avoid > traditional meds. Any feedback appreciated! > > > Marguerite in Illinois > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 , " Mother Knows Best " <momsherbs wrote: > > Anyone had success in helping a person with bipolar get good rest at > night? I have a client who is 13 years old and parents trying to avoid > traditional meds. Any feedback appreciated! > > > Marguerite in Illinois > I have severe manic depression(bi polar), and the best thing for me.. to sleep or even calm down during a mania is Valerian.. you can get it at any health food store, even walmart. It is available in capsule form, or celestial seasonings has a chamomile and valerian tea. It will really mellow anyone with a mania or problem sleeping!! I love it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Have you specifically tried sleep CD's? They work really wonderful for me in getting me straight into REM sleep. Try used bookstores. Just program CD player to repeat all night. , " Mother Knows Best " <momsherbs wrote: > > Anyone had success in helping a person with bipolar get good rest at > night? I have a client who is 13 years old and parents trying to avoid > traditional meds. Any feedback appreciated! > > > Marguerite in Illinois > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 You actually do not want the CDs, music, tv etc running all night. The body needs peaceful quiet time to shut down, the brain needs the quiet to slow down etc. Keeping these kinds of sounds going through the night can actually create more of a sleeping issue as the body and brain have not had time to recharge. Playing the CD's, music etc for an hour at bedtime is ok...after that it should be quiet. Brainsync has excellent DVD's, MP3's etc that you can order or download that help with relaxation and deep sleep. They are very affordable. Jenny Kernan Quantum Biofeedback Therapist --- Mary Hugs Nkisses <tiredgirl50 wrote: > Have you specifically tried sleep CD's? They work > really wonderful for > me in getting me straight into REM sleep. Try used > bookstores. Just > program CD player to repeat all night. > , " Mother > Knows Best " > <momsherbs wrote: > > > > Anyone had success in helping a person with > bipolar get good rest at > > night? I have a client who is 13 years old and > parents trying to avoid > > traditional meds. Any feedback appreciated! > > > > > > Marguerite in Illinois > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 My Dear, My Brother is bipolar...The Best thing is to leave them alone and let them work it out themselves...Bob is a Runner today,,He is an athelete... Sometimes he will get up in the middle of the night and Run...Some times he may not go to sleep for a night...He just increased his mileage he runs about 50 miles a week and he starts when he gets up sometimes on his lunch hour...anytime he wants to. He also works out in a Gym and understands that he is an Athelete...When he is down like in the Winter months he is a Journalist and he is Journaling what ever he chose to write...Training his mind..His diet plays a big part in what he does but he figured it all out for himself...What I like is not what he likes what works for me does not work for him...I am stimulated by different things..He Knows Miraculously ... I have to figure everything our....He is like my Cat as much as I want to keep her in the house I know I have to let her go her way and be free...I know not to control the enviroment...Not to understand sickness... brittanybradfordb2b <brittanybradfordb2b wrote: , " Mother Knows Best " <momsherbs wrote: > > Anyone had success in helping a person with bipolar get good rest at > night? I have a client who is 13 years old and parents trying to avoid > traditional meds. Any feedback appreciated! > > > Marguerite in Illinois > I have severe manic depression(bi polar), and the best thing for me.. to sleep or even calm down during a mania is Valerian.. you can get it at any health food store, even walmart. It is available in capsule form, or celestial seasonings has a chamomile and valerian tea. It will really mellow anyone with a mania or problem sleeping!! I love it!! It Is What It Is Saint Gabriael Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.