Question?/Bonnie

[Guest guest]

evian793 wrote:

>

>

> Hello Nonie,

>

> We give Cody Evo by Innova dog food along with other meats mixed in with

> it. He is so finicky it's not even funny esp. with the chemo he has

> been getting for over a year now.

>

> I have never given Cody raw anything and probably won't start now.

> However when I cook his steak its medium rare.

 

Bonnie, dogs are carnivores, not omnivores like we are. Evo is full of

things that slow down his digestion and take up room he could have

devoted to meat.

 

Meat is the species appropriate diet for all dogs and would probably

help him fight off his cancer. Meat goes fast through his digestive

system like it's supposed to.

 

There is no such thing as a " digestible carbohydrates " for dogs. Their

digestive enzymes are not able to process carbs. They get *no*

nutritional value out of it.

 

Dogs that eat a species appropriate diet are healthier than dogs that

eat any kibble, even the expensive organic ones. Please give your dog

the ability to fight off his disease in a better way.

 

If you feel the need to cook it somewhat then do that. Even a cooked

meat diet is better than what you are using. However, cooking does

reduce the healthful benefits of the meat.

 

Cyndi

[Guest guest]

I'm a big advocate for feeding dogs raw meat and bones....however, Evo is actually quite good. There is no grain in it. It's made from ground turkey and chicken, including bones, fat and cartilage and other connective tissue. It has lesser amounts of raw fuit and vegetables. When a wolf eats its prey, the first thing it eats is the contents of the stomach. This is an important source of phytochemicals for canines. They do need them. Wolves also "graze" on herbs and eat berries and apples they forage. Evo is an excellent compliment to raw meat feeding.Mikecyndiann9 <cyndiann9oleander soup Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 8:01:17 AMRe: Question?/Bonnieevian793 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote:

>

>

> Hello Nonie,

>

> We give Cody Evo by Innova dog food along with other meats mixed in with

> it

Bonnie, dogs are carnivores, not omnivores like we are. Evo is full of

things that slow down his digestion and take up room he could have

devoted to meat.

Meat is the species appropriate diet for all dogs and would probably

help him fight off his cancer. Meat goes fast through his digestive

system like it's supposed to.

There is no such thing as a "digestible carbohydrates" for dogs. Their

digestive enzymes are not able to process carbs. They get *no*

nutritional value out of it.

Cyndi

[Guest guest]

Mike Golden wrote:

>

>

> I'm a big advocate for feeding dogs raw meat and bones....however, Evo

> is actually quite good. There is no grain in it. It's made from ground

> turkey and chicken, including bones, fat and cartilage and other

> connective tissue. It has lesser amounts of raw fuit and vegetables.

 

It still has a lot of carbs in it and dogs can't process carbs.

 

 

> When a wolf eats its prey, the first thing it eats is the contents of

> the stomach.

 

That is not true.

http://rawfed.com/myths/stomachcontents.html

 

Wolves do NOT eat the stomach contents of their prey. Only if the prey

is small enough (like the size of a rabbit) will they eat the stomach

contents, which just happen to get consumed along with the entire

animal. Otherwise, wolves will shake out the stomach contents of their

large herbivorous prey before sometimes eating the stomach wall. The

following quotations are taken from L. David Mech's 2003 book Wolves:

Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation. Mech (and the others who

contributed to this book) is considered the world's leading wolf

biologist, and this book is a compilation of 350 collective years of

research, experiments, and careful field observations. These quotes are

taken from chapter 4, The Wolf as a Carnivore.

" Wolves usually tear into the body cavity of large prey and...consume

the larger internal organs, such as lungs, heart, and liver. The large

rumen [, which is one of the main stomach chambers in large ruminant

herbivores,]...is usually punctured during removal and its contents

spilled. The vegetation in the intestinal tract is of no interest to the

wolves, but the stomach lining and intestinal wall are consumed, and

their contents further strewn about the kill site. " (pg.123, emphasis added)

 

" To grow and maintain their own bodies, wolves need to ingest all the

major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the

digestive system. " (pg.124, emphasis added).

[Guest guest]

Farley Mowat lived with the arctic wolves and wrote a very comprehensive ethology on them which was later made into a movie. One crucial observation he made was that the large herbivores were a less significant source of nutrition in the wolves than the small herbivores. The small herbivores, usually mice, were consumed in large numbers and eaten whole. Mowat found that he, himself , could stay healthy by eating the mice whole, due to the stomach contents of the prey. I live near a large population of coyotes. They have similar nutritional requirements to wolves. They frequently eat the raspberries and mulberries from the bushes in the area (along with some of the slower cats!). My best friend's Irish Wolfhound often swallows rabbits whole without even chewing

them. I believe large wolves probably eat the same prey the same way. The reason the grey wolf survived the last extinction event and the larger dire wolf did not is that the grey wolf could catch and eat rabbits. The larger dire wolf had too long a turning radius and was not quick enough to catch rabbits and perished with the death of the megafauna prey animls. If the grey wolves were eating rabbits they were eating plant material. Mikecyndiann9 <cyndiann9oleander soup Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 12:23:40 PMRe:

Question?/BonnieMike Golden wrote:

>

>

> I'm a big advocate for feeding dogs raw meat and bones....however, Evo

> is actually quite good. There is no grain in it. It's made from ground

> turkey and chicken, including bones, fat and cartilage and other

> connective tissue. It has lesser amounts of raw fuit and vegetables.

It still has a lot of carbs in it and dogs can't process carbs.

> When a wolf eats its prey, the first thing it eats is the contents of

> the stomach.

That is not true.http://rawfed. com/myths/ stomachcontents. html

Wolves do NOT eat the stomach contents of their prey. Only if the prey

is small enough (like the size of a rabbit) will they eat the stomach

contents, which just happen to get consumed along with the entire

animal. Otherwise, wolves will shake out the stomach contents of their

large herbivorous prey before sometimes eating the stomach wall. The

following quotations are taken from L. David Mech's 2003 book Wolves:

Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation. Mech (and the others who

contributed to this book) is considered the world's leading wolf

biologist, and this book is a compilation of 350 collective years of

research, experiments, and careful field observations. These quotes are

taken from chapter 4, The Wolf as a Carnivore.

"Wolves usually tear into the body cavity of large prey and...consume

the larger internal organs, such as lungs, heart, and liver. The large

rumen [, which is one of the main stomach chambers in large ruminant

herbivores,] ...is usually punctured during removal and its contents

spilled. The vegetation in the intestinal tract is of no interest to the

wolves, but the stomach lining and intestinal wall are consumed, and

their contents further strewn about the kill site." (pg.123, emphasis added)

"To grow and maintain their own bodies, wolves need to ingest all the

major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the

digestive system." (pg.124, emphasis added).

[Guest guest]

We have about 25 dogs (along with various other farm-type animals),

and we feed the BARF (bones and raw food) diet. Our dogs are fed only

raw meat, along with apples, pears, tomatoes, oranges, squash,

cucumbers, cabbage, lettuce, bananas, or whatever else comes out of

the garden or from the produce section. They LOVE the vegetables as

well as the meat. They even like pickles and peppers! We have also

raised rabbits and have found that the dogs will eat an entire

rabbit. On the few occasions that we have run out of fresh meat and

have had to feed commercial dog food, we find that their stools are

extremely loose and they poop a lot bigger than they do when we feed

meat and vegetables. Granted, this method may not be for everyone,

but our dogs seem to thrive on it. We have really big dogs all the

way down to chihuahua/weiner dogs, and they all do well on BARF.

 

Shara

[Guest guest]

Thank you for making my point by example. Dogs are carnivores, no doubt. They need raw meat to be healthy. However, they can also benefit with the inclusion of good fruits and vegetables to a small degree. This has nothing to do with their ability to digest this type of food. Humans, omnivores, eat lots of carbohydrates that they can't digest, things like cellulose and lignan. These are carbs that come from the cell walls of plants. We eat them, can't digest them, but we benefit from them. Dogs get phytonutrients from plants. If they could not, then artemisinin would not work for them. Yet it does. There would be no reason to ever suggest oleander for an ailing pup, but we do.Wolves (gray), according to the national park

service, get 2% of their dietary intake from plant sources. There is a subspecies of wolf, the maned wolf, that gets a whopping 50 to 70% of it's diet from fruit! That's why there is a plant in South America called the wolf berry. They eat it.True, dogs don't have ptylin, like we do, to break down starches. They just "wolf" things down. They don't chew their food much (except the bones). That does not mean they are not getting plant derived nutrients. Cells burst with even a little crunching. A little phytonutrient goes a long way. Also, think about the mechanical aspect. A little quick sweep of that short little intestine might be just the thing to counter some of that nasty carrion that wends its way through sometimes.I'm glad you take such great care with your dogs. They sound wonderful.Mikeblondfury123 <showard208oleander soup Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 1:41:27 PM Re: Question?/BonnieWe have about 25 dogs (along with various other farm-type animals),

and we feed the BARF (bones and raw food) diet. Our dogs are fed only

raw meat, along with apples, pears, tomatoes, oranges, squash,

cucumbers, cabbage, lettuce, bananas, or whatever else comes out of

the garden or from the produce section. They LOVE the vegetables as

well as the meat. They even like pickles and peppers! We have also

raised rabbits .

[Guest guest]

The problem we found with ALL processed dog foods is that the main

ingredients are usually corn and soy. We don't feed our dogs that

even on the BARF diet. Corn has a tendency to go straight through

them, as it does most of us. The difference is, it will give them

diarrhea and cleaning up runny poop from 20+ furbabies can get old in

a hurry, lol. Since we went 100% BARF, our dogs are lean, healthy,

spunky, and beautiful. We even had our coyote/chow live to be about

15. I don't know what the average age is for a wild/domesticated

mix, but I think he was really old!

 

Our babies will line up for apples, beans, and they really love

bananas. We use diatomaceous earth for fleas and worms, usually

mixed with bananas. They definitely " wolf " that down! The only

vaccine we give is parvo, and that only works about 1/2 the time;

however, we've had such a horrible time with that terrible disease,

we feel that giving them the tiniest bit of help getting through it

is the least we can do. That being said, we still lost 6 vaccinated

pups last month, so it doesn't work very well at all. We also gave

subQ fluids, colloidal silver, raw honey, cayenne, and a whole host

of herbal remedies, along with Pepto. We did manage to save some,

but the 6 we lost are truly missed.

 

Well, that was completely off topic! Sorry about that. We just feel

that processed anything is not good for any of us, people, furbabies,

or anyone, so we go as natural as we can with all our animals.

 

Shara

 

 

 

oleander soup , Mike Golden <goldenmike86

wrote:

>

> Thank you for making my point by example. Dogs are carnivores, no

doubt. They need raw meat to be healthy. However, they can also

benefit with the inclusion of good fruits and vegetables to a small

degree. This has nothing to do with their ability to digest this

type of food. Humans, omnivores, eat lots of carbohydrates that they

can't digest, things like cellulose and lignan. These are carbs that

come from the cell walls of plants. We eat them, can't digest them,

but we benefit from them. Dogs get phytonutrients from plants. If

they could not, then artemisinin would not work for them. Yet it

does. There would be no reason to ever suggest oleander for an ailing

pup, but we do.

> Wolves (gray), according to the national park service, get 2% of

their dietary intake from plant sources. There is a subspecies of

wolf, the maned wolf, that gets a whopping 50 to 70% of it's diet

from fruit! That's why there is a plant in South America called the

wolf berry. They eat it.

> True, dogs don't have ptylin, like we do, to break down starches.

They just " wolf " things down. They don't chew their food much (except

the bones). That does not mean they are not getting plant derived

nutrients. Cells burst with even a little crunching. A little

phytonutrient goes a long way. Also, think about the mechanical

aspect. A little quick sweep of that short little intestine might be

just the thing to counter some of that nasty carrion that wends its

way through sometimes.

> I'm glad you take such great care with your dogs. They sound

wonderful.

>

> Mike